[Closed] Let's Talk about Kayaking (again)

Hiya mate, that was my old thread. Funny to read it back as that was my first go. I had it out on the canal multiple times a week all through the summer. Great fun!

Happy to answer any questions, but I'm not a kayaker. I'm just a man with a kayak. There was plenty of experienced types that gave me tips and advice last time. What kind of boat have you got?

Try checking out the UK rivers guidebook sea kayaking section. Masses of useful gen and wisdom there. Plenty of advice available too! https://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=3c311d8b2101ab57fcbebcee16f4dfc7
The guidebook, Welsh Sea Kayaking is a lovely book and bound to get your juices flowing for adventures ahead!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welsh-Sea-Kayaking-Fifty-Voyages/dp/0954706188

No boat as yet. Once I do the course (it'll be in March), I was thinking that this inflatable from Decathlon looked like something I might want.

Although you say you are not interested in white water there is the cardiff white water centre(looking at it might be where your course is) which will be a nice safe place of practicing the oh crap scenarios and it doesnt have to be massively gnarly.
I would suggest finding the nearest club and signing up with me as well. I would guess in Cardiff be plenty of sea kayaking trips and it is something where its best to go out initially with someone who has a clue since it can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing.

As I said on in the other thread, welcome to another addictive sport..😎

A few thoughts again:

- the sea is not as obviously gnarly, but can be a challenging place to be with addition of tide, large fetches for waves and higher windspeed.

- don't buy a boat until you have tried a few out.

- get that coaching under your belt, then look to try all sorts of boats.

I personally find the inflatables so frustrating - they're just not as efficient or responsive as a rigid boat.

I kayak and canoe and have done for nearly 40years.

Much like bikes 1 is never enough so when you do buy one will be your first but not last! If storage is available I would avoid inflatables and go for something rigid.

Think about safety gear, e.g if going on the sea a vhf and knowledge to use it is worth the small investment.

Sea trips are fun. I’ve paddle various places round the uk from Poole to Stonehaven but oddly never near Cardiff!

Worth doing a BCU 2* or 3* qualification (if they still exist). That will teach you how to do different strokes, how to deal with moving water, reading rivers and what to do when upside down!

If you plan to sea kayak, the one thing you want is a bombproof roll.
It can be a long way to the nearest bank!

I would get involved at the Whitewater centre in Cardiff. IT'S GOT AN ESCALATOR!
You just paddle onto it and it takes you back up the top. Dreamy.

Not sure that boat you link to would be ideal for beginners. It's not a full on sea kayak but it'll be narrower than a river boat I expect and consequently more tippy.

Best approach is to join a club, where they'll usually have a load of boats to try along with formal and informal coaching.

In other words, don't get wed to a certain 'genre' of boat and boating if you're a beginner.
Best to take advantage of club stock until you narrow down your interests.

It's all paddlesport.
I started out in the sea and surf, transitioned into whitewater which took me all over the world, also Canadian canoe and paddleboard.

Don't do much whitewater these days, living slap bang in the middle of England 😐 but it's all nice to do and importantly, skills are transferable so there's no need to just paddle one type of boat.

I use strokes now on my paddleboard that I learnt river-running in a whitewater kayak. 😊👍

My 13 year old son was interested in kayaking so I started a thread on here maybe a year ago. Since then he's joined a club and goes 2 or 3 times a week (in preference to sitting in front of his gaming computer). He loves it.
Some of the benefits of a club, for us, are 1) that we don't need to own any boats but there's a load of different ones for him to use whenever he goes 2)there's always some experienced paddlers around to help, and 3)organised training .
The downside is that (without our own kit) we are restricted to the same stretch of river most of the time.

as inflatables go, that one doesn't look as bad as some and would be a lot easier to store/transport. it's not cheap though.

i bought a pyranha fusion last year, its been great for rockhopping along the coast, in the local estuary and even some easy WW. my days of hard WW are over.

Don’t do much whitewater these days, living slap bang in the middle of England

Where dat?

I dabbled in WW for many years but eventually gave up as it was too dangerous being the weakest link in a ( very) strong group ( Knees, Horrorfoss, MarkR etc). Young kids prevented me spending enough time on it to keep on form.

Kids are older now and I'm starting to get the occasionsl urge to get back out. But I cant be doing with clubs and faff. If I go I just want to get out, paddled few sections and then offset.

Based in Manc. Might you be up for a gradual reintroduction to Ww if spring is wet?

< full disclosure: paddled Lower Tuolomne, Styx, Choruh, Guisainne, Amodt, Kinglass, Dart etc but was never very good>

Try checking out the UK rivers guidebook sea kayaking section. Masses of useful gen and wisdom there. Plenty of advice available too!

Not sure if the Sea section is different, but the river side of ukrgb is dead now. Might be better checking our Mark's Facebook page for Sea Kayaking stuff?

Inflatables open up the option of public transport which would seem to me to make river trips much easier. I'm interested in this but from a touring point of view; I'm confident in water but the general safety aspect of many watersports make me somewhat nervous. I mean I'd be far happier paddling about islets in sheltered spots on the West coast of Scotland than I would paddling in the sea near Cardiff.

With an inflatable canoe I could fly to somewhere in Finland and spend a week paddling about lakes on my own, no need to pay for and be organised by a holiday company etc.

I’d be far happier paddling about islets in sheltered spots on the West coast of Scotland

I've heard Corryvreckan is nice 😉

With an inflatable canoe I could fly to somewhere in Finland and spend a week paddling about lakes on my own, no need to pay for and be organised by a holiday company etc.

I've not done Finland but Sweden and it's probably cheaper to hire a canoe there than pay baggage for an inflatable each way. Would expect that sort of thing is fairly straightforward in Finland too - and many of the hire places will do drop off / pick up of the boat if travelling A-B rather than in a loop.

Inflatables open up the option of public transport which would seem to me to make river trips much easier.

Maybe if you have convenient public transport to go from home to top of river and bottom of river to home? But an inflatable with all your kit is quite a bit of stuff - even for a day trip. I wonder how many people actually do that regularly? I suspect only those who need to rather than choose to.

I think I might be getting too old for the limited comfort of overnight sea kayaking - and wonder if the OP has considered this - I'd be leaning towards canoe (although I've no fantasies about crossing the channel using my own arms for propulsion!).

I'm assuming sea-kayaks are longer and sharperer? I find it hard going on the canal in a normal kayak never mind dealing with wind and waves... and in an inflatable? fuhgeddaboudit.

I say 'hard going' but I mean, I don't exactly make progress. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? I seem to be going about the same speed as people walking on the towpath. I can get it up a bit if I proper go for it.

simplifying it a bit max speed on flat water is a function of the hull length. a longer boat will go faster than a shorter boat. a narrower boat will require less energy input to get to that speed but be more unstable.

in my fusion (~10ft) i can comfortably paddle at 5-6 km/h, probably 10km/h max but not worth the extra effort.

Where dat?

I dabbled in WW for many years but eventually gave up as it was too dangerous being the weakest link in a ( very) strong group ( Knees, Horrorfoss, MarkR etc). Young kids prevented me spending enough time on it to keep on form.

Magicknees! That brings back memories 😊
MarkR is a friend of mine actually. He led a group of us on an Easter trip to paddle in India one year, then California a year or so after. Also paddled a bit with him in Scotland and Devon and a sea kayaking trip to Lundy island (with Chris Wheeler) which was epic.

I'm in Leamington spa. I still have my creek boat but yeah, living where I do, biking just slowly took over as it's less travel (though still some)

Last place I paddled my big boat was Lee Valley whitewater centre, and I got ran over by a raft in a hole and had a swim.
Not a good look 😂

simplifying it a bit max speed on flat water is a function of the hull length. a longer boat will go faster than a shorter boat. a narrower boat will require less energy input to get to that speed but be more unstable.

in my fusion (~10ft) i can comfortably paddle at 5-6 km/h, probably 10km/h max but not worth the extra effort.

Thanks. I think mine's about nine foot so that makes sense, plus I'm nearly up to the weight limit so that can't help.

Easter trip to paddle in India one year, then California a year or so after.

That's got me thinking....
You're not SiWiles, or Roo? You're definitely not Mr Sigbrandt.

Not MarkG, or Chas?

I was booked on one if his Calif trips. (The one they got benighted on the Yuba) but BA screwed up my booking. Luckily. I paddled with them in Norway the year after and realised that I was completely out of my depth. Swam a long way on the Astre and only just survived. Did a few minor trips to Cali, Turkey, NZ after that but never really got my mojo back and realised that being the avalanche poodle wasn't a good look for a new parent.

But ever since then I have dreamed about finding another group that were similarly allergic to faff, but not quite as good. Of course I never found one as people who faff as little as Rainsley & co did are going to end up being seriously good by dint of the immense amount of river time they get. A new parent can't match that.

"Faffers don't get invited back" , MarkR

"Four days paddling for only two days annual leave. An almost perfect Wheeler Ratio of 2"

<edit, you're not Andy Mac are you?>

We don't do anything seriously, too much time investment needed. I love the idea of sea kayaking, to open up overnight adventures in the UK and abroad (i.e. British Columbia) but would want to have VHF radio and better recovery skills/practise (open water rescue). I know about tides and waves (from my career), that and being able to rescue yourself are the most important things to understand.

We have an inflatable with a skeg, it has been used a handful of times - overnight trip in Scotland (it is harder to control on open lakes against wind then a canoe); river day trips on the Wye using Kenny's taxi and would consider doing this more often; one venture on the ocean in Cardigan Bay when it was extremely still (which was a lovely day out but really only get one or two days a year with that calm wind and the right timing of the tide). I know people who play in the sea, have more investment in the boats, dry cags, and the time to keep practising rolls and rescues. We are more likely to use a canoe for longer holidays / overnighters. Unfortunately in the UK that means either a very long drive to Scotland or the Wye or Severn with a bit of planning. So we generally do trips in the USA, France, Sweden etc renting the canoe and kit (we have our own dry bags).

For that inflatable I presume it comes with a spray desk, but you have to also buy the PFD, paddles, pump? You may find something better value second-hand if you look on the Ebay / Freecycle type sites. I would also urge you to try out different boats before hand to know what style / water you are likely to paddle and do consider a skeg.

I’ve heard Corryvreckan is nice

If it wasnt then why would Werner have named a paddle after it? 🙂

That’s got me thinking….
You’re not SiWiles, or Roo? You’re definitely not Mr Sigbrandt.

Not MarkG, or Chas?

<edit, you’re not Andy Mac are you?>

None of them but I know or know of them all.
I was just 'OL' on ukrgb

I was thinking that this inflatable from Decathlon looked like something I might want

Please don't just buy one. Try one first, and realise that they are awful.

Although you say you are not interested in white water there is the cardiff white water centre...

Cardiff WW course is really difficult, even at its lowest pump setting.It is not suitable for beginners, apart from maybe trying some turns in the bottom pool outflow, even then, it's a strong flow.

It's been mentioned above, join a decent Club. There is one Club (maybe two) based at Cardiff. Try a proper touring or sea kayak, then you will realise how rubbish an inflatable is. You really would not want to be at sea on an inflatable, even just off the coast.

You're assuming he has storage for a rigid. Not everyone does, I certainly don't.

You’re assuming he has storage for a rigid. Not everyone does, I certainly don’t.

Many Clubs have storage areas for Members boats, Cardiff certainly does, they also have Club boats that can be rented, so the usual first thing to do when interested in paddlesports is to join a Club. Get good tuition, and try out a load of different boats.

I was thinking that this inflatable from Decathlon looked like something I might want

Please don’t just buy one. Try one first, and realise that they are awful.

To be fair, that's a 'dropstitch' inflatable. Same technology as paddleboards so will be leagues ahead of your traditional inflatable rubbish but yeah, rigid always will paddle better, providing you have the storage.

Please don’t just buy one. Try one first, and realise that they are awful.

If you want to do anything approaching proper kayaking then this is true. Out of all the thousands of mankm of ww I have seen paddled in a kayak/ canoe, I think the only 4km I've seen done in an 8nflatable was when me and a mate did the Tryweryn. Badly.

It's a bit like getting a tricycle to go mountain biking.

Edited to add that I suppose if you're sticking to sea/ Lakes then the dropstitch one might he OK.

Cardiff WW course is really difficult, even at its lowest pump setting.It is not suitable for beginners

If you do a coached session they should be able to pick and chose parts of the course to work. At least if its any thing like the coaching at lee valley. Although admittedly since they made the bottom of the legacy more interesting it has been more amusing watching beginners miss that last eddy.

‘Proper kayaking’ does not just mean just whitewater, just like proper biking does not just mean just mtbing.

Stop trying to take every kayak thread down the same path so you can tell us about all the hard rivers you’ve done.

Well, I have to say that this thread is slightly different in tone to what I imagined!

It is true that, other than an afternoon spent paddling in a Norwegian fjord, I have no kayak experience, I have extensive canoe experience. Importantly, though, that experience is almost entirely on lakes. So I have never have to consider tides and the like. I did earn a Red Cross 'small craft' qualification as a young teenager that entailed cold water capsize training, which, although it was a long time ago, and is probably vastly outdated now in terms of certain techniques, at least means I am not naive to the amount of learning I will need to undertake in order to become a safe and confident kayaker - especially at sea.

When I mentioned the boat that interested me, I only did so because I have serious storage issues at home, and don't fancy the faff of storing elsewhere. But that doesn't mean I won't do it if it is only way of getting the right boat in the end. But even talking about getting one at this stage is probably premature!

The course I am taking is run by, and at, the White Water Centre here in Cardiff. And of course I want to learn the skills that will make me good on the water... especially when the going gets tough. That doesn't mean I can imagine seeking it out, though! Just as it was with mountain biking, my fundamental interest is in taking up the sport for the adventure it leads to: travelling distances on water; seeing where I live from a radically different perspective; etc.

So, is what I hope for realistic? Tell me my dream of meeting seals up close somewhere near Tenby is feasible! 🙂

Stop trying to take every kayak thread down the same path so you can tell us about all the hard rivers you’ve done

Soz jambo. I just got excited about memories of previous adventures and intrigued about whether i knew k23.

You are correct that I was waffling too much.

🤐

So, is what I hope for realistic? Tell me my dream of meeting seals up close somewhere near Tenby is feasible!

Yes it should be (no idea about tenby though) but it might need a slightly different approach.
Whilst I havent done a lot of sea kayaking I have had seals go under the kayak and been stuck with a nice dilemma of trying to watch to see if a sea eagle was going to leave its nest on one side and also a pod of dolphins messing around on the other side. Had whiplash trying to watch both.

For sea kayaking if you want to do it properly then its best to learn from someone. Whether formally on a course or informally via a club. Anything sea based can be dangerous but the upside is it is generally fairly easy to learn how to recognise what is dangerous and with a bit of erring on the side of caution and being willing to go for plan b it can be made a sensible and safe hobby.
I really would recommend looking around your local clubs and sign up with one of them.
Many will be happy to teach people (especially once you have got past the complete beginner stage) and so you can go from there especially in terms of finding people to paddle with.
Whilst opinions on this vary personally unless its ultra tame I am a fan of group paddling and certainly for sea stuff due to my lack of skill there.

Soz jambo. I just got excited about memories of previous adventures and intrigued about whether i knew k23.

Yeah, soz about hijacking the thread to blather on about the olden days. 👍

Op, I think those dropstitch construction boats are probably a great solution if you don't have the space, though living where you do, I'd imagine there will be a decent club that'll solve that issue.

i might have been a bit groucho, but its easy to forget that there is a whole world of kayaking outside of hard whitewater.

even in the whitewater world its easy to forget that the lower grades can be fun, really fun.

back to the OP, if you get that boat, maybe get a decent paddle, cheap paddles are miserable.

So, is what I hope for realistic? Tell me my dream of meeting seals up close somewhere near Tenby is feasible!

Yes. Yes it is.

I have said it before - there is a steeper initial learning, particularly around some avoidance / understanding of risks and some rescue stuff, but once you have that then all sorts opens up quickly with paddling.

Sea paddling (and big inland lochs) is ace, a real antidote to speedy modern life. Proper slow travel vibe going on.

Pics of the seals when you can!

cheap paddles are miserable.

True dat.

Spend on the things you touch and use most - and the paddle as a tool is that.

Again, second hand can come up with some good deals. We had three pairs of Werner or carbon paddles at one point, all bought second hand on Gumtree/Faceache/etc - and none cost over £50 iirc.

This thread needs pics folks 🙂

Sea paddling (and big inland lochs) is ace, a real antidote to speedy modern life

I started on the sea >40 years ago and the above is how I persuaded my wife to give it a go. And paddling to beaches which would be grim to access any other way. Like hillwalking without carrying the weight on your back and being able to camp on an island and pull a bottle of wine out of the boat to go with dinner.

Another vote for join a club. And to avoid the inflatable boat unless you want to restrict yourself with distance and sea conditions. Finding a place to store the right boat for what you want to do will be more rewarding than compromising on it for space.

This thread needs pics folks

OK. This is what I think SaxonRider wants to do.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117886970_65fb71d3df_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117886970_65fb71d3df_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kT7wSN ]Canoe on Loch Voil and Doine[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/687/22024200560_32601562cc_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/687/22024200560_32601562cc_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zycMvS ]Aviemore Overnighter[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8380/8519075167_3aa800395d_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8380/8519075167_3aa800395d_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dYNufk ]Instructor Training Course[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

(Sorry - can only post one flickr photo at a time now for some reason)

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8508/8519119701_aacdac6fd8_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8508/8519119701_aacdac6fd8_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/dYNHua ]Instructor Training Course[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

SaxonRider, with your canoe experience, the main thing you'll need to learn, apart from tides and sea conditions, is balancing a narrower boat. Your course at Cardiff will be in whitewater boats, where you lock yourself in so that you can put the boat on edge. A sea kayak is best paddled with a more relaxed fit, where you sit upright in the middle of the boat and let it move about a bit. The other difference compared to canoe is that on sea kayak tour, you need everything like camera, maps, snacks, to hand from the cockpit, as you can't move about the boat.

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/8013/7281982372_7042acc845_h.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/8013/7281982372_7042acc845_h.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/c6u4Ed ]IMGP3249[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

Living where we are really helps...

(yet) another vote for joining a club. Would be worth discussing any potential boat purchase with the club as well. The club I'm with wants for most club trips you to have an enclosed (not SOT) boat with deck lines so assisted rescues by the group are possible.
I started kayaking about 3 to 4 years ago after giving up winsurfing (serious foot injury). Initially bought a 14ft touring kayak with which I explored the local (flat) rivers, estuaries and harbours. Local area is the Solent so plenty of safe options but also took the boat to Dart and Salcombe. At that point paddling was limited to benign conditions and locations I could get to shore by myself if self rescue didnt work. It was the desire to do more coastal exploring in more committing conditions that lead me to joining a club so i could go on group trips. Also coincided with getting a 'proper' sea kayak (NDK Romany Surf in my case). Most of my paddling is now coastal exploring, Jurassic coast, trips over to the IoW etc. Not particularly interested in the Gnarr side but have tried a bit of playing in tide races and even small surf. Done a couple of club trips to North Devon and Pembrokshire: Little Haven and Solva for coastal, Milford Haven estuary for a bit more shelter.
Learnt to roll with the half day course and then pool sessions organised by the club. Its pretty reliable in the pool but only 50-50 in the real conditions you likely to fall in.

Might as well join in the corruption of the thread.

What Greybeard thinks saxonrider wants to do looks bloody lovely.

This is what I do, which is fun, but rarely lovely. First race back in March since September 2000 cannot wait.

[url= https://i.postimg.cc/RFNrjS72/F565-B597-5-E5-E-47-ED-AA5-D-8-A44-B4-DC5699.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/RFNrjS72/F565-B597-5-E5-E-47-ED-AA5-D-8-A44-B4-DC5699.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

This is what I do, which is fun, but rarely lovely. First race back in March since September 2000 cannot wait.

And that is what I used to do in my youth.  That and sprint racing.

A bit of kayak surfing and slalom for a bit of occasional off season fun.

Btw, the Descenso del Sella race in Spain is both fun and crazy on a beautiful river.

https://flic.kr/p/4SFazA

This is what it's all about.

And this

https://flic.kr/p/4SAXNr

https://flic.kr/p/N7JEm

https://flic.kr/p/N7Tzx

On the inflatable side, we needed a second canoe to take the whole family so I bought this just before Xmas

https://www.instagram.com/mr_evilgoat/p/CX_cCRVMR3x/?utm_medium=copy_link

It's a neris smart. It has an aluminium frame and inflatable sides. So has shape and paddles ok but folds down and is quick to assemble. Very tough fabric and can be used as a canoe or kayak and spray decks are available.

Amazing trip quite a few years ago. About 6 hour crossing. Set off at dawn from Rest bay and saw a whale/basking shark.

Deleted, Can't post photos, sorry...

I'm not sure there are that many opportunities for easy touring in Wales. I would love to be wrong though.

@kayak23 Rest bay to Lundy is 45 miles no? How did you plan that trip? How did you manage tides and currents?

How did you plan that trip? How did you manage tides and currents?

https://www.waterstones.com/book/south-west-sea-kayaking/mark-rainsley/9781906095772

Though I'm guessing he didn't bother with the book!

Yeah, I went with the author of that book. I just got up and paddled a boat 😂

How did you manage tides and currents?

We were incredibly lucky with the weather. It was like a mill pond there and back.
Which is lucky because I was cacking meself quite frankly. The sea gives me the willies.

Can't believe we haven't had this yet.

@kayak23 Rest bay to Lundy is 45 miles no?

I'm an idiot. Lee Bay, not Rest bay. It's below Ilfracombe.
Not sure why I had Rest bay in my head.

There's q beautiful hand made apache canoe for sale in the classifieds! 15ft tandem all the trimmings

Lee bay is still quite a paddle but not quite so epic. some from this summer:

100% join a club.

I'd also add - if the above is the ambition, an inflatable kayak is likely to be less than ideal, perhaps even dangerous. I can't find a lot of stuff doing long-distance with exposure in inflatables other than by companies that are trying to sell their inflatables.

But if inflatable is the only option - then the training you get in a club will be the thing that keeps you safe 🙂

if the above is the ambition, an inflatable kayak is likely to be less than ideal, perhaps even dangerous

Can you expand on that?

They're slow, they're more affected by wind and waves than a hard shell, if they're damaged they lose structural integrity. Most have designs that inhibit effective paddling and they tend to have high primary but low secondary stability which is not ideal.

They're fine as "toys" (and I have one in the loft) but they have significant issues if you are trying to take them outside of a fairly narrow sensible useage window.

Well were talking about the drop stitch ones as pictured above. I'm not sure all of your criticisms apply to those.

I have a cheap one and yes it isn't ideal but it does work. Certainly easier and drier than swimming.

This all smacks of people suggesting expensive trail MTBs for people who just want to ride back roads and fire roads. Of course the context is different for water sports but if you just want to move across a modest body of flat safe water surely you can do that in an inflatable?

Aye, you’re right. But didn’t the OP say he wanted it for the sea?

Somebody else mentioned that a decent paddle is a good investment. I have the standard Decathlon one, can somebody recommend a decent upgrade. Happy to go second hand. Just for canal/reservoir duties.

. Of course the context is different for water sports but if you just want to move across a modest body of flat safe water surely you can do that in an inflatable?

You can of course, but as you suggest, it's very different being stranded out in the middle of a reservoir and not knowing what to do, then it is at the other side of Llandegla not knowing how to deal with a puncture.

Inflatables are great. I love the portability of my paddleboard, however the downside can be that folks get out into situations they didn't envisage maybe too easily.

I assume those dropstitch boats, much like most inflatables have more than one chamber.
At least that gives you something to cling on to should the worst happen, but you do have to be careful and know what the risks are.

It's not the same as mtb.

I can't compete with the pics above, but i have a great time paddling around the (generally quite sheltered) Solent, Southampton Water & Poole Bay. But even this only very still days (wind less than 10mph) in my sit on top.

Even so, I can only paddle upwind of friends with inflatables (like the decathlon one) or they quickly drift into my course.

Its amazing how quickly conditions (wind and chop) can build even around here. I wouldn't want to be caught anywhere i wasn't completely confident I could get to shore. Got a bit close to the tide race at sandbanks once at turn of tide, it went from flat calm to half metre with a strong tow in about 20m of paddling! So know your tides.

Well were talking about the drop stitch ones as pictured above. I’m not sure all of your criticisms apply to those.

I've not paddled a dropstitch boat but I've paddled an inflatable and I've got a couple of iSUPs and I'd be fairly confident that the assumptions hold up, I may be being harsh on the stability issues but looking at their hull shapes and having seen them paddled by others I don't think I'm too far off the mark.

The analogy to MTBs doesn't hold up though, especially if the boat is being used in the sea. There are feedback cycles in paddling that can very rapidly lead to bad outcomes that just don't exist in biking to the point that there isn't really an analogy that works.

If storage is a constraint then an inflatable is a way of getting round that, and a dropstitch is better than a tubed inflatable, but don't be under any misapprehension that they aren't a compromise and those compromises come with risks (as any choice of boat generates). As an experienced paddler I'd not take an inflatable out on the sea if there was any real tidal flow, any real wind unless it was mostly onshore or onto stretches of coastline where I couldn't get out of the water (and properly on the land).

Somebody else mentioned that a decent paddle is a good investment. I have the standard Decathlon one, can somebody recommend a decent upgrade. Happy to go second hand. Just for canal/reservoir duties.

werner

@molgrips -

"This all smacks of people suggesting expensive trail MTBs for people who just want to ride back roads and fire roads"

Not at all. Firstly - the OP expressed a desire to do more than just faff about on a small lake or play on the beach. But to expand:

Expense: Second hand kayaks work out about the same as the cheaper end of inflatables (and I'd assume that second-hand inflatables are a risk people won't want to take, right?)

Safety: Everything here: "slow, they’re more affected by wind and waves than a hard shell, if they’re damaged they lose structural integrity" - I have *zero* appetite for safety compromises when it comes to kayaking/canoeing (other than using them to faff about on summer beach holidays on calm days). If you break your £230 walmart bike at BPW and knock yourself out then it's not that big of a deal - someone'll come down the trail behind you and help. If you're getting blown out to sea on an inflatable and can't muster several hours hard constant break-free graft to fight the wind then you're in *real* trouble. A solid shelled kayak helps immensely - because even well-trained experienced people take risks and the first time you find yourself out of your comfort zone (or worse - safety zone) you *really* appreciate every advantage you can get.

It's a wonderful sport. Absolutely fantastic. But unlike MTB - if you're going to countenance getting into the sea and doing multi-day point-to-point adventures then you need 1) training and 2) the proper equipment.

On an MTB you can get a shit helmet, no kneepads and a £30 throwaway of the wrong size, V-brakes with metal fatigue someone pulled out of their garage in the 1990's and throw it down the Snowdon Rangers path - I might even turn up to point and laugh.

Different for kayakers though. Playing on lakes and beaches - fine, absolutely knock yourself out. Even river trips in the UK - it's pretty safe. But the sea, once you've got out of the safety of the bay - you need to know what you're doing. So club, training, proper gear. 100%.

I read a few reviews of that particular boat mentioned earlier in the thread, and it does say that it's a completely different proposition to the normal inflatable sort so it's an area of interest for someone such as myself who doesn't have storage available.

If storage is a constraint then an inflatable is a way of getting round that, and a dropstitch is better than a tubed inflatable, but don’t be under any misapprehension that they aren’t a compromise

I'm not, don't worry.

Happy to go second hand. Just for canal/reservoir duties.

Vertical Element although it depends on how many miles/complexity you are racking up as to whether a good paddle really adds much. For basic pottering not sure I would bother but once it gets all day/messy water then it really helps.

I read a few reviews of that particular boat mentioned earlier in the thread, and it does say that it’s a completely different proposition to the normal inflatable sort

I fully expect it is it'll be far mor rigid which should make it quicker, it is narrower so will be easier to paddle effectively and is closed cockpit so it'll be a driver ride (albeit with no deck shaping to shed water) but, it'll be easier to capsize than a boggo inflatable/SoT and harder to get back in and upright if you do. It's not clear if there are any bulkheads in it and if not then there is the potential for a LOT of water to get in and no obvious way out so potential for getting bogged down. It will be harder to trim it to account for impacts of wind direction as it's closed cockpit but fairly floaty. If the solid keep sections front and back kink in storage it could have a fairly big impact on tracking. Based on the SUPs it'll be a fairly big job to inflate it too.

It's better performance wise but whether that better is actually beneficial to how you would use it is another matter. I doubt you'll self rescue in that (or certainly do it easily)so you would want to be out with someone else or on very sheltered water. Does that fit with what you're looking to do?

Somebody else mentioned that a decent paddle is a good investment. I have the standard Decathlon one, can somebody recommend a decent upgrade. Happy to go second hand. Just for canal/reservoir duties.

Mitchell blades, Celtic, select plus Werner and VE as mentioned previously. But look for a carbon shaft either glass or carbon blades, they will be much lighter and stiffer increasing power and reducing fatigue.

are VE back in the game? I thought they had ceased trading?

are VE back in the game? I thought they had ceased trading?

Not sure of the finer details but the owner had to cease business for personal reasons but sold it to Palm including all the factory hardware.
My current ww paddle is pre-palm but from what I have seen and been told of the post palm ones they are same quality and flexibility in being able to get one made up to your specific length/feather (even the website looks the same).
So not some dodgy buy the name and then produce crap and hope some poor sods buy based on that good name from 20 years ago.