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I’ve a Bmw 330d e91 remapped to 320bhp, 42mpg. More torque than a ton of pork. 👍
But those 3's aren't big are they?
What's the point remapping a 330d and then driving like a fanny in order to get 42mpg? Just means you should have bought a 320d.......
I looked at these legacy’s before I bought my Leon. Fantastic cars especially if you can find a manual. They have the bullet proof 2.0. Getting a bit long in the tooth now though and the tax can be pricey. If you can live with the economy after the Mondy 20-28 mpg on a good day worse with the auto.
But those 3’s aren’t big are they?
By no stretch of the imagination. I too am puzzled that people keep posting them in a Big Fast Estates thread.
Same with the Audi A4...certainly big in terms of length, but not big in terms of load space...
What’s the point remapping a 330d and then driving like a fanny in order to get 42mpg? Just means you should have bought a 320d…….
Really?
Okay...
loads of power and torque when you want to driving fast.
loads of MPGs when you don’t.
Several points in between
Lots of the cars mentioned on this thread have boots no bigger than a normal car. They should not count!
Dad had a Sierra 4x4 estate 2.8 v6. Was a great car to be insured on at 17. A customer has a Range Rover sport SVR. Now that’s a quick estate. And it sounds like a spitfire.
Point of order the TheDTs, a Range Rover whatever is not an estate, it's an SUV in America or a 4x4 in Blighty.
Hobnob…the Skoda Superb in question is the 4×4 280 tsi estate ..which I put forward earlier in the thread .
Dirk was mentioning that the 220 also has a pretty brisk performance ..
The numbers above relate to the bhp….
I’m not sure what you are driving as engine sizes start at 1400cc..and if that’s what you have got I would agree it’s hardly going to be ” superb ”
The 2000cc tsi petrol engine with 280 bhp and a 0-60 time of 5.3 seconds will be a completely different beast ..and could very well be described as ” superb ” ..
Not all Skoda Superb’s are the same!
Oh I get that, and yes I'm aware what the numbers mean, but they still don't make a perfectly functional car superb IMO. It's nothing to do with the performance, it's all to do with the quality of the interior Vs other premium brands it's trying to muscle in on. But as I said before, for what it is, it's exceptionally cheap to lease and give back.
Personally, even with the big petrol engine, I wouldn't call any of them 'fast' either. Only a hot hatch with ~300bhp is fast. A massive estate, brisk.
For it to be fast to me, that bhp number needs to start with a 5.
5.3 seconds to 60 on an estate car that size isn't fast ..?
Granted it isn't going to fly around corners too well ..but in a straight line I would say that is pretty impressive
then driving like a fanny in order to get 42mpg
Better and less anti-social than driving like a dick (or being characteristically misogynist on here)
loads of power and torque when you want to driving fast.
When and where would that be on a crowded island with coast to coast traffic?
Granted it isn’t going to fly around corners too well
Well don't then, there might me couple of people poddling along on bikes, one on each side of the road trying to avoid potholes or perhaps riding around a horse rider.
Both blindingly fast off the lights (which is what matters)
Really? Seriously? straight up not even a little bit tongue in cheek? You race at the lights. Jeeeeeeez.
Edukator...I get that you are safety conscious.. the whole point of the thread is in the title ..but thanks for the Sunday sermon ...
Fyi..loads of near empty roads in certain parts of Northumberland ..
.loads of near empty roads in certain parts of Northumberland
Well if you have perfect line of sight, can stop in about a third of the distance you can see to be absolutely clear and cool it the instant a vulnerable road user appears... .
But really tracks and motorsport would be a better place to play and you'd soon find that whatever your big estate is it's lousy in absolute terms.
I was looking at rs4 avant which I know is not a big estate but I figured it'd hold a bike or a labrador. In the end I sort of came to the same conclusion as Edukator (without as much sanctiomony) in that to actually drive it fast would need a trackday and then it's not exactly a track car. 95% of the time it would driving very slowly and consuming masses of natural resources.
A big torquey diesel is perfect for towing my track car to the fun park. If only I could afford a track car... One day....
My boss took his rs6 to a track day. Cooked his brakes pretty quickly...
Audi A6 Avant Black Edition Ultra...
Got one with all the toys, 200bhp, £30 a year to tax and get between 45 & 50mpg on my daily commute (80 miles cross country every day)
Plenty big enough, so much so that I've got an itch to swap it for a similar spec A4!
Lovely place to be on a long drive.
Edit.. Fast enough for the real world too
Personally, even with the big petrol engine, I wouldn’t call any of them ‘fast’ either. Only a hot hatch with ~300bhp is fast. A massive estate, brisk.
For it to be fast to me, that bhp number needs to start with a 5.
Think this comment illustrates something we all need to think more about.
We are now so used to big-torque diesels, high-capacity petrol engines and supercar-slaying prestige executive cars that we have forgotten what fast really is. Fast doesn’t mean sub-5 seconds 0-60, 600nm+ of torque etc... That really is the world of supercars. An M5 or RS6 is not an everyday ‘normal, car. They are a performance machines.
In the real world, sub 7 seconds 0-60 and and more than c200bhp still makes a fast car.
So many of our mid-range cars are properly fast. My last 3 cars have been 3.0 diesels - A4, A6, A4. None of those have been more than 6.5 seconds 0-60 and my current car is 5.2. In reality that is bloody ludicrous performance.
Lots of the cars mentioned on this thread have boots no bigger than a normal car. They should not count!
Just st a bit of fun innit, killjoy.
Didn’t say I drove like a fanny did I, idiot.
C5 v6 estate is a bit of a sleeper if not super car fast
But again, budget might prohibit such expensive frivolity. Definitely in the case of the RS6 – I was considering an older one some years ago until I started looking into the running costs. Big performance doesn’t come cheap especially in a big heavy estate car. Even if I was gifted one I’m not sure I could afford the running costs….literally. I don’t mean it would cost a lot, I mean it would be completely unaffordable.
The running costs oats are indeed brutal. My uncle had one and a trip to Audi for a brake issue (it needed discs, pads and callipers) plus a minor oil leak came to an astronomical sum that kind of killed the enjoyment of owning the car for him. The fuel didn’t really bother him, he just filled it up and tried to ignore the money asked for...
The ride wasn’t too bad at all if it was left in comfort mode. Anything else was a bit too much. It was hugely impressive but left me a bit cold really and when a corner arrived there was no denying or hiding its immense weight. Personally I much preferred his previous B7 RS4.
Personally, I’d be going for a current RS6. They’re brilliant looking things. But the AMG 63’s sound so filthy (the new ones less so, but they’re still mighty).
if the 3 series is excluded (and I did say that 14 years ago, mine was counted as big and fast, only a 5series was bigger). Then so is the RS4 and the C63, so really this is a thread about the M5 Touring, the RS6 Avant, the E63/55, the Panemera GT, but the latter, whilst a big car does not have have lots of space so should also be excluded...makes it a boring thread,no?
How about the Tesla estate?
I once had a bit of a joust with a RS6, I was in my mates Alfa 156 3.2 which I thought went a bit. To say I got humiliated would be an understatement, the Audi just vanished. Gone disappeared, out of sight 😂
a mate has a A6 3.0 diesel Quattro, very nice, as quick as you want to go and good on fuel. Drove up to Montrose and got out as fresh as a daisy.
Not especially quick just a 1.8 T but my old gorgeous A4 Avant with Votex kit
Soooooo since I'm the OP I make the rules and yeah A4s and BMW 3s are not big.
But then again, while this thread was going I nearly bought a restored 940 with a totally stock 2.3 LPT engine in it and the late manual gearbox and LSD, but that's not fast, so what do I know.
I am arbitrarily discarding anything fwd. Or rather I'm putting them all in the pile marked "good ideas" whereas this thread is about the pile marked "buyer's regret"
My autotrader and ebay is still full of turbo Legacies and Stageas, but now some BMWs which I didn't really "get" before, especially since all the recent ones look like well used bars of soap. And I have an on-off thing with A6s. I've always loved the Legnum's looks even before I had a driving licence, I think they're gorgeous but tbh it just loses out for not being as easy as the Lecacy or as ridiculous and fugly as the Stagea, and seems to have some extra living-with issues.Budget is £6000 absolute tops so, sadly no porsches. And I am uptight about boots, as far as i'm concerned if it doesn't have a flat entry (ie no lip on it) it's not a proper estate so that rules out a couple including I think the glorious Chrysler 300
That CX7 is actually pretty awesome, I'm not going to get one but I do like it. Boot doesn't look that big? I absolutely love the 2 stupid-engined Zafiras but... no.
For it to be fast to me, that bhp number needs to start with a 5.
As with penis size, it really needs to start with at least an 8. Probably 9.
I’m in the same boat as the OP at the moment - I have a 135i that’s been modified to the point of being useless and I’ve just sold my M6 after it nearly ruined me financially. So I’m on the look for something else with a big boot and plenty of poke (and that won’t break).
Have considered a 335d estate and also the v6 A4 avant but having had a 3 series touring before I know how bobbins they are on space. Also had an RS4 which had terrible rear leg room (not helped by the massive seats admittedly) so I’d count either of those out.
Rs6 avants are lovely but still pretty expensive and personally I’d avoid the cheaper fragile v10 engined one. E63’s have a bloody awful interior (unless it’s the brand spanking new one) and are still pretty pricey.
Im at a loss and I’m sick of looking on pistonheads. For a 6k budget I’d probably look at something Japanese - can’t remember if Mazda did the 6 MPS in an estate but they’re always much cheapness. Or maybe consider a Mondeo 220st - they’re MASSIVE in the back..
ISTR that a V10 RS6 was more expensive to run than a V12 Lamborghini - in fact at the time it was the most expensive car to run <Clarkson>in the world</Clarkson).
Wifey has an F31 335D xdrive estate and whilst it's an impressive piece of kit, it's not that big (can't get my 29er in the back without removing a wheel) and as she does a lot of short journeys, not as good on fuel as I had hoped. Buying again I'd probably look at a 330e or 340i if space wasn't an issue.
It's nice to drive and goes well, but you can feel the weight of the engine when you push it hard, but at 7/10ths or less it rarely feels 4wd and sounds pretty good too.
Avoid Audi and BMW, obviously.
Certainly A4s and 3 Series. Pitifully small boots.
Is the V10 Torag acceptance’ibble??
It is an environmentally enviable place to sit, after once you floor it you are way ahead of any particulates discharge and so high up all the smog is way below you killing only small aminalz and ikkle kids..
My C63 estate goes tomorrow, trading it against a C250 diesel. The £400 per month fuel bill is not worth it, sadly blimmin crazy silly car though!!
I've got the bug again.
Had an e91 335i with enough work done on it to pull 520ish at the crank, but sold it in a fit of sensibility.
Now I want a b8 S4 with the intention of a pulley, remap and intercooler.
Not all that expensive at the moment.. what's the competition for 15 grand?
The other half wants me to get a 330/530d but I'm using 'new diesel legislation' as an ominous justification.
What about a seat cupra st or golf r estate? There were some fairly decent lease deals about for either and second hand prices for the cupra st aren't too bad. I've got a cupra hatchback and averaging just over 30mpg which isn't too bad for a 300bhp, sub 5s 0-60 car (which can easily be remapped to 354 with stage 1 tuning)
I think if I were after an estate, it would be a seat st or possibly a 335d BMW. RS6 would be the ultimate, even an old one for that V8 rumble but as above, running costs are ludicrous.
The boot on the Leon ST isn't that big. Looked at getting one a while back and was disappointed with the boot - great fun to drive though .
Bikebouy, That is an SUV. I got told off for mentioning a RR Sport SVR! 😉
Sorry I think that was me in a fit of pedantry ...
I love that b5 A4. Always wanted an original RS4, but missed the boat before prices went crazy
I'm sticking with my 56 plate E91 330 estate for as long as I can as I can't see a decent replacement for sensible money being available in a few years time. It is just about big enough for 2 of us with bikes and kit for a weeks holiday in Scotland, but it will be a squeeze. Fine the rest of the time though.
Out of your budget, but my list of alternatives currently sits at just the VW Golf R (don't like the look of it), Seat Leon FR (don't like the look of it), BMW 340i (had enought of BMW's), Volvo V60 Polestar (eats tyres) and that's about it.
I've heard you pay a lot to run an Audi 'S' either S4 or S6. Merc C43 will be too expensive I expect. Jaguar XFR with the 5.0 V8 is never going to happen.
I like 6 cylinder petrol engines, but things have moved on. Expect a turbo'd 2.0 4 cylinder will have to be the future.
I hope my 330 lasts forever so I don't have to make a decision
To my endless jealousy my friends have: RS4, RS6 and C63 AMGs, all estates oh and another has a 911 Turbo, but at least he has the grace to turn up for rides in his Van.
Mountain biking really is a middle class, middle aged pastime isn't it?
^^😀
Caddi CTS-V, fastest American Station Waggon (estate, in case you don’t know what a station waggon is 🤪)
I don’t mind being told off, it’s not like this is a serious thread like Kryton would start is it 🤩🤣🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Not enough love for the Prancing Moose!
Polestar V90 (Artist's impression)
To my endless jealousy my friends have: RS4, RS6 and C63 AMGs, all estates oh and another has a 911 Turbo, but at least he has the grace to turn up for rides in his Van.
Mountain biking really is a middle class, middle aged pastime isn’t it?
3 Working Class Lads and a fringe Member of the Aristocracy as it goes 😉 one of us ain’t even 40 yet.
Given how many people drive "fast" german estates, i have no idea why you can't get an M3 tourer??
Not enough love for the Prancing Moose!
Or teh other Scandinavian in the room...
9-5 Aero HOT
Well someone got a free big fast estate on Saturday. A dealer who shall remain nameless returned my friend’s tuned V10 M5 touring after a service. Problem was it was to the wrong house and they dropped the keys through the letterbox. 🙄
Took an anxious 24h to find it, the person who received it for free didn’t, thankfully, wrap it round a tree. 😬
9-5 Aero HOT
I had one of those. It went, but so did the petrol. You could see the gauge going down with a naked eye, moderate enjoyment of the thing resulted in 24mpg from memory.
I have no need for an estate, or a big SUV, tbh, but dammit, I so want one of those V10 TDi Touregs! Lots of geegees, but also prodigious quantities of torque.
So... why would I not buy a 530 touring diesel manual? They're not too expensive, they have some economy, they have a load of power and it comes out the right end. Older ones even look pretty nice.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">CaptainFlashheart
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Not enough love for the Prancing Moose!
I mentioned it before CFH, went down like a fart in a jacuzzi.
The CTS-V mentioned above is a great call: supercharged V8 from a previous gen Corvette, available as a manual, with ruinous depreciation. There's one near me, but an automatic, which feels inappropriate.
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Overall there's a sense that this is a question without an answer, though, given the restrictions that keep being thrown up.
E60 M5 Touring would fit the requirements but the running costs would see you homeless pretty quickly. E63 (with the 6.2 V8) would be epic, but automatic only and you're not getting near one for £6k. Maybe an E55 though (was it available as a manual?).
How about a BMW 550 estate?
This is a great thread, fantasy power seeking for no other reason than “why not”
Talks heading towards Beemer 530d estates bring back me memories of endless days chugging the motorways towing dinghies and yachts, and filled to the brim with windsurfing gear. I had (in succession) 2 530d sport tourings, first I put 175k on and the second 240k within 6 years over that glorious period of “someone else is paying for the car and fuel”. Awesome is a word too often used, but in this particular instance the term fits the 530d very well. For all the trashy image beemers suffer from, I think the 530d is the best vehicle beemer have ever made. A super comfortable mile munching powerfully reliable machine that gets overlooked far too often, I think it’s the pinnacle vehicle in thier range for two reasons... it’s anonymous and it captures all the best ideals beemers were essentially made for. I couldn’t recommend them highly enough, if that’s the route you are going down.
But, because I’m still playing “big, fast, who cares” card have the X5 5.0d MSport instead. In true beemer fashion it has to be the biggest and most powerful and comes in fridge appliance white. Fuel mpg? No idea... how long do the tyres last? Probably about a week and a half... can you park it outside the school gates at a jaunty angle whilst half on the kerb and half on a baby robins face? but of course, park it anywhere you like, afterall you own the road and your life is way more important than the other plebs that litter and scatter as you floor it out of Tesco’s......
I have no need for an estate, or a big SUV, tbh, but dammit, I so want one of those V10 TDi Touregs! Lots of geegees, but also prodigious quantities of torque.
I think thats that's the one that towed a jumbo 747.....
So… why would I not buy a 530 touring diesel manual? They’re not too expensive, they have some economy, they have a load of...
The auto is a much more sublime experience, and likely better economy too. They have a manual mode and if its new enough, flappy paddles. Even the 2.0d has plenty about it yet it’s also able to “waft”.
9-5 Aero HOT
I had one of those. It went, but so did the petrol. You could see the gauge going down with a naked eye,
From dailying one for the past 3 years, I'd say that's a bit of an exaggeration!.
As I said before though, one trick ponies. Relatively quick, but really crap chassis. Woeful inside as well. There's no disguising the GM!
My Octavia Vrs is big enough and fast enough for me. A bit too fast 😖
Not crazy fast but I quite like my Leon FR. It drives really nicely in most scenario's and is fast enough to lose your licence, and driving on the motorway / back roads is effortless. The boot is surprisingly big as well. If that's not fast enough there's a Cupra version
Count Zero..unless things have changed in subsequent years ..expect only 10-12 k miles per full set ( x4) of tyres ...on a Touareg .
I spent 2k inside a year on tyres alone back in 2006.
But again, budget might prohibit such expensive frivolity. Definitely in the case of the RS6 – I was considering an older one some years ago until I started looking into the running costs. Big performance doesn’t come cheap especially in a big heavy estate car. Even if I was gifted one I’m not sure I could afford the running costs….literally. I don’t mean it would cost a lot, I mean it would be completely unaffordable.
I did this very same exercise, if only semi-seriously. It was a bit of an eye-opener.
There's a big jump in running costs between the "halo" cars (M, RS) and the models that are merely very very fast that almost certainly isn't justified by the increase in performance. Of course, those cars aren't supposed to make any sort of sense, other than to serve their purpose of casting the brand in a good light. Doesn't mean I don't still fancy that M5 Touring...
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...and my vote is in, picked up a JDM-spec Legacy GTB last sunday. Really rather pleased with it, though at this point I drive it like a granny, and the autobox is confusing. Straight line acceleration when it downshifts at just the right moment to come on boost is ludicrous though (it's not really massively fast, it's just that it goes wait... wait... EVERYTHING so it feels mad) and it corners lovely, on the rare occasions I don't massively overbrake before a corner. Imported in 2016 so it's not been Scottish Wintered like my old car, which basically looks like a shipwreck underneath
It's also ridiculously civilised- I picked it up near Stanstead and drove it back to Edinburgh pretty much in one go, the seats are comfy, the engine's quiet and low revved at cruising speed, the stereo's ace... And it has an LPG conversion so it didn't bankrupt me while doing that drive.
Just need to get rid of the chavvy dump valve and it'll be grand.
Where are the roof bars .
👍👍👍💪
the problem with all these estates is that none of them is actually any use if you have 3 kids, so I'm stuck in MPV land... Why can'l anyone design a bench seat to take 3 child seats?
Not all ‘kids’ are in child seats, most from aged 10 upwards aren’t, so these cars are then ideal !
Mate has twins plus one older - all fit in an Octavia estate fine with one of these.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">"bikebouy
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Where are the roof bars ."
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I've literally never used the bars on the old mondeo- I have racks but everything goes in the boot. It's got some sort of slotty things for roofrack feet but I don't even know what that is.
It's not as epically massive in the back as the mondeo- the floor's higher, the arches encroach a bit and it's just generally a little smaller. But it'll still eat 2 bikes and kit no fuss and that's all I need. Anyone else can walk.
Though, it is drastically lacking in nooks and crannies, I was moving all my Accumulated Crap from the old car today and there's just nowhere for most of it to go. Ford do some stuff really well...
#shouldhavegottheoutback
the problem with all these estates is that none of them is actually any use if you have 3 kids
So true. Yet if you wait, they outgrow kid seats then stop coming out with you.
Then an estate for 'normally just me and Mrs, occasionally some lanky kids squeeze in the back' works as a comprimise.
Gone for a practical 4 seat, 4wd to replace the RS4 as we don’t need 2 estates , Mrs NZCol has a Octavia wagon now. Yes ladies and gentlemen my man maths has justified a 991 Carrera 4 ☝️
The future is coming 🙂
<div class="bbp-reply-author">jam bo
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#shouldhavegottheoutback
Possibly, possibly. Might make access to some trailbuilding locations a bit interesting.
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I’m 3 months into mine and love it. Just packed it up for the drive to wales tomorrow and amazed how much it takes.
Since the thread started ..I've bought an A6 Allroad S/ tronic 3.0L V6 ( 272) ..absolutely loving it ..just back tonight from a short Torridon break with the family ..the traffic was horrendous but the car is just as happy pootling along as it is hoofing it and boy does it go when you need it to ..
I didn't expect the claimed mpg ..but it is in the low 40's ..which is way better than the 11 year old X-Trail it replaced ..
Very happy chappy so far ..
Nice choice NZCol but have you got the roof bars yet?
A whole thread and I didn't see one mention of a Volvo V70 R. Poor show. While the T5 were quick, the R was 300bhp of 5.7 0-60 hilarity. Add in an ohlins designed suspension system with electronically controlled shocks and 4 pot brembos. Having had an S60 T5 tuned to 320bhp before the current S60R I can confirm it's a whole different beast to a stock volvo.
Plus it has a load capacity that can swallow a pile of DH bikes with wheels on, a sofa or a washing machine AND tumble drier.
Its a proper big fast estate.