[Closed] Legal types to the forum pleas...Family member & a common assault charge.

He deliberately picked up a knife and threatened you, 6 month holiday will make him think of the consequences of his actions, think of it as holiday away from him, the rest of his behaviour is similar to a majority of teenagers.

Drop the charges by citing small family misunderstanding?

Is it possible to sit him and everyone down in a calmly manner to show him love and to tell him of the hurt he has created for the family?

At this age if he is with the wrong crowd and starts to smoke weed and take harder drugs you might need to get him away from them before permanent damage is done. How? I don't know as we are in a liberal society in the UK. In other part of the world we shoot the pushers.

🙂

I'd genuinely be quite surprised if he got 6 months detention based on that scenario, especially as a first offence. As the victim, you can't be forced to give evidence against your own son so you could speak to the officers who dealt with the matter and tell them that you no longer support a prosecution (I'm not saying that this is what you should do but it is an option)

If he is now in local authority care and is a model of good behaviour, that would also be a factor in any pre sentence reports (which would be required before any sentence is passed due to his age and lack of offending history)

If you want to drop me an email it's in my profile

You called the police on him and yet you're still apologising for him.

He absolutely belongs "in a detention center with thieves, thugs, chavs and criminals..." if he believes that pulling a knife on his parents is appropriate behaviour. Sorry. Let nature take his course, he clearly needs a kick up the arse.

I Am Not A Parent, etc etc.

The drugs will be the first to push your son off the edge so that will be the first thing you need to get him off.

Scrap that, take Bregante up on his offer. He knows of what he speaks.

I feel for you, sounds like a nightmare.

The drug use and the knife waving make me concerned for his state of mind TBH. Has there been any mention of psychiatric reports? Do you have any concerns that he may have been self-medicating for a mental illness?

I'm not necessarily suggesting that having such issues would be an excuse in the eyes of the law, but extenuating circumstances are taken into account.

(PS. I'm not a legal type but I've sat through plenty of court cases for work in the past)

Think hard. A criminal record will follow him around for his whole life. Don't believe this "spent" bollocks.
Think hard, but think straight. If you think that this isn't likely to be a one off, then he needs locking up.
At the very least, he needs to be out of your house. That much is obvious.

No idea about the actual final question, but there's a chap on here that posted quite frankly about 'similar' troubles with one of his children last year. Pretty heartbreaking stuff reading it as an outsider, but he may be worth a nod if you were looking for anyone to bounce experience/ideas off. He seemed like a decent guy.

If you wanted to do that, but can't find him from a google search, let me know and I'll say who it was by email. (I only phrase it like this as it's not really my place to 're-live' it for him publicly).

Good luck either way.

EDIT: Cougar, you really surprise me with stuff you come up with sometimes. I'm not a parent either, but that statement requires a ridiculous amount of detachment to even think that's the right mind-set.

Anyhow, sorry - don't want to derail.

Your lad will never learn if you don't follow through on the consequences of his actions. Threatening violence in your own home in front of the younger two. I would respectfully suggest that your actions now will affect how the younger children regard you and possibly treat you/your home in future.
A discussion with the arresting officer/a lawyer as "A good scare is worth more to a man than good advice".

Eight weeks of leading a reasonable life away from home would be enough to convince me to do everything possible to get the law off his back. Even though it's getting the law involved that probably gave him the wake-up call he needed.

I can't see how a custodial sentence would help, meeting people objectively worse than those still on the outside however marginal they may be and a risk of suicide.

Edit: mine is 17 too. Sometimes things do get a little heated.

I have to say, both as a Dad of a 19 yr old and as someone who sees the legal system first hand that I tend to agree with Edukator.

EDIT: Cougar, you really surprise me with stuff you come up with sometimes. I'm not a parent either, but that statement requires a ridiculous amount of detachment to even think that's the right mind-set.

Point was that whatever has been tried thus far hasn't worked. If someone threatened to stab me in the face it'd alter my world view somewhat.

One thing I would say is I wouldnt allow him to move back in under your roof.

Even for one night. Support and help him on the understanding that youll drop the charges if he'll keep trying with your support

However I'd say its time he grew up and moved on/out permanently.

You read the bit that said he was a good kid, and that he'd been clean for 8 weeks I assume?

Really sorry OP, I know how threads can get derailed sometimes - it's just big-man bollocks like that Cougar posted, when someone is asking for advice in a really difficult situation, just gets me.

Last I'll post on it.

Not in the mood to go into detail tonight but common assault is raising the apprehension of unlawful physical contact so making someone think you were about to touch them without permission. So massively wide offence. Actually the least serious charge in this scenario . you can be compelled to give evidence you cannot drop the charges you are a witness not the person bringing the case ( that's the queen) that said your views ought to be taken into account and a lack of support from you could effect the decision to prosecute or indeed the out come. Courts hate knife crime there is a case called povey that says sentences for knife crime should be at the high end of the relevant bracket so I can understand the solicitors opinion though I would be fairly confident of a better outcome if I was doing the case round here . I would however be warning you of the real risks And giving no guarantee. No email in profile I keep my work and private life off here but if you need further advise tomorrow ask and I will work out away of providing it.

I also am not a parent but if i were I would have a talk with him, hopefully he'll be more receptive now that things have escalated and he's been clean for a while.

I'd explain that this is a one time never to be repeated offer and if he's willing to change his ways and behave in a civil manner towards the rest of the family and society in general then you'll do all you can to make sure he gets off as lightly as possible. If you feel that he's genuinely responsive to this approach then a a little kindness now could the thing that stops him becoming a complete shit of an adult.

The harder part is going to be not falling back into the same pattern once this has all blown over and i don't think that whether he's incarcerated or not would make any difference to his long term outlook unless he's really willing to change direction in a big way.

Everyone deserves a second chance, but he would need to be absolutely certain that this was his second chance and if he screwed up again the system would do as the system sees fit.

it's just big-man bollocks like that Cougar posted, when someone is asking for advice in a really difficult situation, just gets me.

TBH, I accept that. I am detached, for reasons I won't go into here (feel free to email me). Wasn't intended to be "big man" though, I'm not like that.

I can't offer any useful advice, but you're not alone in having a very stressful time with your children.

My second son's behaviour was really quite similar to that (though I never got the knife treatment). He's now been sectioned, but he could easily have ended up going through the courts instead.

I'm not really comfortable putting much more here as things currently stand, but feel free to email me.

I'd like to say it gets better, but so far it feels more as though you just learn to live with it.

Retail therapy helps though 🙂

Terrible situation, I hope you can work it out as best as possible, really feel for you.

Agree that he needs a kick up the arse. Just not convinced it's this particular kick up the arse. Already been massive (hopefully positive) changes as a result and being faced with jail time will put the shits up most people, pulling the case/declining to give evidence doesn't mean there's been no consequences.

Also, well done forum people.

If you think the scare of facing prison has had a positive change on his behavior, and he is now getting the help he requires to get his life on track, then I would quit with the charges (if possible) whilst you are ahead.

Because this...

6 month holiday will make him think of the consequences of his actions

...might just make him worse than he has ever been and start a new downwards spiral he will never get out from.

Good luck.

tymbian, not sure if bearnecessities was talking about me or not, if so youll struggle to find the thread as i had to ask the mods to remove it as my lad found it open on my wifes laptop and went off on one :-/ all seems a long time ago now, in reality only 3 years or so but im quite open to talk about the experiences either here or by email.

both my lads got into legal highs, one quite badly (also harder stuff) and we had a daily procession of police, social workers and threats of violence (much the same as your knife scenario).
the system wasnt much help, we had to do things no parent should have to. one particular scene thats still vivid in my mind is one winters night we had to lock them out the house just so the police and social workers would get involved. we werent actually heartless enough to leave them shivering so allowed them in the porch but as soon as we saw headlights told em to get out. makes me so sad to think back, so many stories along those lines.....
few years on and my eldest is just off a long section but still in the mental health system and will probably always be so now, hes messed his head up good and proper. we have a more settled life now with both kids altho far from perfect.

anyway, i digress. FWIW i would never give up on your lad. personally i wouldnt want to go ahead with the charges, i would fear the worst if he went 'inside'. if hes trying to get clean give him all the help and support he needs, just never write him off.
in situations like this i always play the 'what if' game. if the worst case happens and he ends up killing himself, would you think you could have done more? or handled things differently? sometimes its just not your fault and sad things happen and there actually is nothing more that you could do, but from your post im getting the feeling theres plenty of hope yet.
dont give him up to the system whilst you may be able to still show love and compassion and hopefully help him come through the other side.

emails in profile if you need to yap personally at any time.

[i]...might just make him worse than he has ever been and start a new downwards spiral he will never get out from.[/i]

+1

Parent to 3 sons; 21, 20 and 16. My eldest went through this (with my ex), he moved out and 'found himself'. All good now.

Yes SXP, it was you. Thanks.

Not a good situation to be in, however at 17, he should be old enough to face the consequences of his actions...getting in with the wrong crowd won't have helped, but in the grand scheme of things, messing about the drugs on yourself isn't as serious as pulling a knife on anyone - no matter who it is.

I will put my head above the parapet and be prepared to be shot at.... I actually believe he should go through the court process and all that it entails........I have seen and dealt with violent/drug using offspring who were given so many chances by their parents and just carried on with the domestic abuse. If he gets six months he will serve three, assuming he behaves himself etc. hopefully he will remain clean whilst he's inside. If he receives a community sentence because you put in a further victim statement explaining the effect etc on you, the family and that you don't want to see him incarcerated but that he needs to fully comprehend the result of his actions then so be it.
Research the news for family related murders, they're quite common!

I don't know of any vulnerable, out of control teenager with a drug problem that has in any way benefitted from a custodial sentence.. neither can I think of any that have in any way benefitted from the strict disapproval of an authoritarian father..

I would go for damage limitation and try to keep him out of the line of any life changing negative impact imposed by the courts..

Cougar: just wow 😯 what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

What an incredibly sad situation for you all and do hope that you can all find some way of repairing the damage.

Kids are bloomin' hard work and forever pushing boundaries but was there anything that led to him getting involved with drugs? Was he settled in school when there? Did he leave school with any dreams or ambitions?

This assault charge, as serious as it is, has hopefully frightened him and you of course know that being in detention is not the best place for him to be.

I can't see how a custodial sentence would help,

As a screw, me neither. He needs proper support & guidance at this stage.

Maybe get in touch with..

http://www.lifeline.org.uk/

If he got a custodial sentence he's going to a YOI which are full of drugs & I'd say at this stage it ain't going to help.

'Legal highs' are the bane of the prison system now, theyr'e an absolute ******g nightmare that the general public don't hear a thing about.

Cougar: just wow what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

This made me chuckle! I'm sure even Mr C would admit that 'position of authority' is a bit of a stretch for forum moderator to a bunch on middle age cyclists!

I do hope you get it sorted and support those that say prison is the wrong place. Drugs are rife especially the legal highs which have some horrible effects. Thoughts with you.

Thanks for the supportive replies. I'd like to add that the first few weeks of his bail conditions meant he wasn't allowed to have any contact with me but was speaking to his mother a lot and was genuinely remorseful and upset about what he'd done. When we did meet up there were a lot of apologies, hugs and tears. Signing our son over to the authorities was the hardest thing we've had to do. We couldn't help our son any more and we're hoping he would be sectioned and mentally evaluated. He's now in care and 30 miles away from his circle of 'friends' which is what was needed.

Cougar..if you were to meet my son you would find him extremely polite and we'll mannered..not you typical thug, Chav, theif reprobate so was very surprised at the speed you judged...I'll pas on your offer thanks.

@ Hora...I can't drop the charges, the CPS are charging..it's out of my hands.

Cha****ng. .it has been mentioned that his drug use may of been a form of self medicating.

Breathe.. I'd like to accept your offer..

I know that detention isn't the right thing for him. He's to go to court on Wednesday and everything seem to be taken out of our control. We haven't had a letter telling us he's going to court..he's 17 and we haven't signed over parental rights to social services.

if he pleads not guilty the hearing will be adjourned for a few months and then my wife and I ( possibly our 12 year old ) would need to go to court to give evidence.

So a not guilty plea and you all refuse to testify. I'd be quite happy to get done for contempt of court rather than see my son prosecuted.

edit: Or if I testified I 'd just use the opportunity to give the court all the reasons on this thread why a custodial sentence wouldn't be useful and refuse to testify on the incident dismissing it as family tiff in which no one was hurt..

@ crankboy. .If you're able to help in any way it would be appreciated. my email is in my profile. Thanks.

yunki - Member
Cougar: just wow what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

You might not agree with Cougar's approach but that is also one way to deal with problems.

Had a lot of trouble with one of my daughters when she was a teenager . She was in with some not so great people , did some drugs (most kids seem to these days) , removed herself from school , assaulted a fellow pupil , told social services that I had sexually and physically assaulted her and plenty more similar things . I know it's a stupid thing to say but I really believed bad children were the result of bad parenting until we had all this trouble . We tried to be firm but reasonable , talked things through and made sure that at all times she knew that we still loved her . She's in her twenties now and has turned into the most beautiful , loving caring daughter anyone could wish for . Don't suppose that helps in your situation but I guess the moral of that story is don't burn any bridges if you can help it and I hope you have a similar outcome to the one my wife and I have had .

What a horrible and scary situation you are in OP (plus your son).

I have read this thread a few times now and I do not know what to say, as I can see both sides of this.

I guess that my worry is that this isn't something that has come entirely out of the blue because you have seen a steady deterioration in his behaviour over time. Presumably there have been discussions about his behaviour before?

I know that this is a cop out post, but I do not know what I would do in your situation.

My heart says that keeping from going inside is the right thing to do. This may work in the short term, but what happens if he relapses?

I hope that things resolve themselves and that the right thing happens.

Maybe you should sit him down and let read though this post to show him different people's views about his behaviour?

My head says that tough love may be the right answer...

I'm not going to offer advice, he's not my son, but I'll offer you my personnel experience of what has happened to my cousin.

Never worked or studied, lived his life off his parents. As young as 12 he was bringing the police to their door regularly, petty things to begin with and then escalating to sexual assault of a class mate on a school trip. Never his fault was the excuses from his parents. Expelled, then got further and deeper into hard drugs. This culminated in a breaking, entering and aggravated assault charge on his drug dealer with a hunting knife over a mobile phone. Spent 6 months on remand until the drug dealer perjured himself rather than admit to dealing drugs. He had marked himself for "a seeing to" by some nasty people so ran off to Bulgaria to sponge off his parents leaving his girlfriend with 2 kids. Whilst there he managed to get himself convicted of drunk driving, without a licence or insurance, a big deal in Bulgaria, 3 months in prison. Gets out and within a month then takes a neighbours car without permission, neighbours report it stolen not knowing who has it, then rolls it into a ditch, losing his ear in the process, whilst drunk and high. 18 months in prison. He's now back in the UK having had to run away from yet more nasty Bulgarians who have him marked for who knows what.

So a soft approach didn't work, prison hasn't worked, Bulgarian prison hasn't worked. He's incapable of learning even with help offered.

I don't think a prison term will help, the right sort of help with the drugs might, if he wants help. Good luck.

personally tymbian i have a gut feeling youll get a good outcome. every day the courts have to deal with scrotes from uncaring families, sh*tty backgrounds, pretty much lost causes. your lads different in that he has a caring family/support system, so i dont think theyd lock him up if theres a chance of him turning his life around.
just turn up, tell the truth but also state your case in how youre going to do your best to support him and my feeling is you'll all be ok.

Not a lot to say except good luck. It does sound like both you and your son need some help from outside parties in getting to the bottom of this so hopefully social services will be able to provide some route through.

FWIW everyone I've known who's used drugs heavily was using them for self medication at some level so if you really have no idea where this destructive behaviour is coming from maybe he'd benefit from some counselling or therapy. or maybe you'd all benefit from some family therapy to uncover any underlying issues?

@ sadexpunk I remember reading you post and thinking about our own situation at the time.
I'm glad that things have sort of worked out for you and you haven't lost your sons altogether.

I'm sort of leaning towards telling my son to plead not guilty to buy some time so we can get some advice..if there was a way to buy some time without have to offer a plea then I'd use it..( the ramblings of a desperate father that doesn't know what to do for the best. I know it's not detention..

yeah, im not so hot on the legal side of things, so cant advise which path to take there, hopefully someone with more legal knowledge could advise that. but yes youre right, the answer isnt detention, so id do my utmost to ensure that doesnt happen.

all the best mate.

Take care, OP. It must be an absolute nightmare for you.

I haven't (yet) had experience of an unbalanced teen, have only the vaguest tangential engagement with the criminal justice system and am not a mental health professional. As an amateur in those areas, it seems unlikely to me that sending a kid who has fallen in with the wrong crowd, has abused substances and who is emotionally unstable to prison (youth detention) will help much...considering the high proportion of the "wrong crowd", substance abusers and emotionally unstable people in detention. But perhaps (hopefully) I am wrong.

Advice from lawyers seems pretty extreme. Worth speaking to another and seeing what would happen if you withdrew compkaint.?

Apologies, OP: to try to help to answer the questions you actually asked:

- you can read the Crown Prosecution Service's understanding of Common Assault here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_against_the_person/#a07 NB that if the charge is being heard at the Magistrate's Court, the [i]maximum [/i]custodial penalty is 6 months' imprisonment.

- you can read the Crown Prosecution Service sentencing manual for Common Assault here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/common_assult/ The sentencing manual doesn't tell the court (judge) what sentence to impose, it's a summary of what the prosecutors are supposed to ask for or suggest is an appropriate sentence.

You'll notice that the "Factors reducing seriousness or reflecting personal mitigation" include "Determination, and/or demonstration of steps taken to address addiction or offending behaviour". If substance abuse and/or emotional problems were factors in the alleged offence, then if he can be engaged in counselling/therapy/treatment/support groups by the time of sentencing, this might help show that factor to the court. (It would presumably be helpful in addressing the underlying problems too).

was very surprised at the speed you judged

Yeah, sorry about that. Long day and I shot from the hip. I'm probably not the best person to be commenting on threads like this. Again, sorry.

postion of authority on Internet.

That's funny. I delete duplicate posts and split up arguments on a MTB forum. I'm not Tim Berners-Lee.

Reminds me of me when I was 17. A totally self absorbed a-hole. I've grown out of now thankfully (I think!).

If you can't get the charges dropped, pleading not guilty sounds a bit chancy I'd go down the mitigating circumstances and support/seeking help route I am anything but a lawyer). The last place he needs to be is YOI, that'll just mean more drugs and more bad company. Maybe hoof him out, make him stand on his own two feet, once he has an appreciation of how hard that is he might mature a bit and appreciate what you've done for him. No easy answers though, hope it all pans out.

Sounds bad, feel for you and anyone else that's gone through this.

I don't have kids, but all my closest school friends (people I grew up with from nursery right through to the end of high school) where in prison or dead when I last heard anything about them, all because of drugs. I was too scared of my dad to ever get too involved besides trying it a few times.

I think people are right to say don't give up on him, and maybe a short stay in prison may change him for the good, or the bad... But I'd think hard about letting him back in your house whatever the outcome. No matter what he needs/wants or what happens, you've two other children that must be kept away from the type of violence and hardship, as you want to do everything in your power to keep them from the same path.

The friends I mentioned above, as far as I know, the younger brothers and sisters where following suit when I broke contact with them...

Good luck to you though, and I hope it all works out in the end.

Eight weeks of leading a reasonable life away from home would be enough to convince me to do everything possible to get the law off his back. Even though it's getting the law involved that probably gave him the wake-up call he needed.

I agree with this. He's shown willing and although the catalyst could well have been the threat of the law, the seed is in there. Give him time and (at the gamble of pitchforkisms from the local posse) if you do anything to wind him up - y'know, little words and memories that you throw in his face ((and I ain't sayin' you do)) it's probably best to avoid them. Drugs can magnify the negative, especially the comedown.

Cougar: just wow what the hell are you doing holding a position of authority online?

Me plus quite a few others are gratefull for the effort and time Cougar and the rest of the mods put in, we are all capable of providing our own thoughts, and memories based on our and freinds life experiences, the mods just delete the more ofensive ones, before the sensitive are hurt.

I work in the criminal justice system and deal with cases like this frequently. I think you have reached a crisis point which could lead to you getting help to resolve the situation.Assuming he has not previous convictions and that he pleads guilty he will most likely be dealt with by way of a referral order, which means two things, first he will be allocated to a youth offending team officer who will work with him and you to resolve the family conflicts and address his behavioural difficulties, secondly , as long as he co-operates and doesn't reoffend the conviction will be considered spent once the order is completed.in other words his details will stay on police records but will be dormant unless he reoffends .The order can be from 3-12 months depending on the courts view of the seriousness of the offence.Hope that helps .

No relevant experience from the parenting perspective to share, but for what it's worth I think standing up to his behaviour and at the same time supporting him afterwards is the right approach. All the best.

I'm not a lawyer, my legal training is limited to a few acts I had to enforce in my job. My experience of courts is hours sat around magistrates courts waiting for my cases to come up and sitting through a series of drunks, drink drivers, domestic violence, debts, pub brawls. The justice system seems to do everything possible to persuade people to plead guilty. But the golden rule is that if you aren't guilty don't plead guilty.

I can think of plenty of reasons for picking up a knife in a domestic tiff. I'm not for an instant suggesting the OP was in any way threatening but picking up a knife to make sure you don't get assaulted is just one justification. The magistrates seemed quite pragmatic people. Not guilty pleas were accepted when there was more doubt than evidence, and unconditional discharges given when it was clearly six of one, half a dozen of the other. Of those that did get found guilty it struck me that it was usually on the basis of what they said themselves, including those I was prosecuting.

I'm sure that if the whole family has the s&me objective of getting out of this legal quicksand and then your son getting on with a new independent life without doing time of having a criminal record it can be made to happen by a competent solicitor/lawyer. So find one and pay what it costs.

I've read around father-son relationships and talked things over with professionals and many other parents. One recurrent theme is the pack like nature of families, the son being the young wolf that challenges then ousts the father to take over control of the pack. My son is more provocative and confrontational with me than anyone else I'm sure. Things have sometime got physical (though no weapons), there's a crack in the ceiling above one door he slammed and another has a loose frame. Magistrates are usually old enough to have had kids and lived through all this. Fathers and sons always have had and always will have rows, the justice system needs to be persuaded that escalating further will be counter productive.

I love these threads, I actually LOL'd when I read this line:

Is it possible to sit him and everyone down in a calmly manner to show him love and to tell him of the hurt he has created for the family?

Thought I was watching Loose Women for a moment!

And now we've got someone whose legal training amounts to sitting in a public gallery offering advice on how a man might perjure himself in order that his violent and potentially dangerous son is spared the prison sentence he deserves?

I think Cougar hit the nail on the head first time. He might be prone to bouts of little-Hitlerism; abusing his Mod tag to win arguments; wielding his ban hammer in a particularly prejudiced fashion; but in this instance, I don't think he should let the bleeding hearts shame him into watering down his initial reaction.

To all the people who've offered advice, how would you feel if this little wrong-un actually stabbed someone somewhere down the line? What if he stabbed one of your loved ones?

My advice would be to wash your hands of him, tell him he's on his own and protect what's left of your family from ever having to deal with anything like this again!

Let the law deal with him - he didn't just commit the offense against the OP, he committed an offense against all of society when he broke the law and behaved in a way that we should NOT tolerate.

Look out everyone Judge Dredd has arrived.

Jesus wept. 😯

@ gatsby - you don't have kids do you? Or if you do ... er, don't answer that. 😐

Are you on the same stuff as the OP's lad Gatsby/Shibboleth?

Who is Gatsby then?

I think people need to wake up and smell the coffee... It's all well and good sitting at your keyboard and patting yourself on the back for being such a lovely fluffy human being and offering nicey nicey advice on how OP and his boy can go camping and fishing at weekends, bond together and live happily ever after... IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

This little scrote disappears for weeks at a time, taking all sorts of drugs and breaking all manner of laws, and only comes home when he needs to eat, sh*t in a clean toilet and scrounge some cash.

People don't just *suddenly* pick up a knife and threaten to slash another human. Sure, it may be the worse thing he's done, but i'd bet my house he's committed other violent crimes against others before.

A "Good Lad" simply doesn't threaten to kill someone!

My OH is in the Police. Yesterday, her and her colleagues sent 4 "good lads" down for over 100 years. She sat through hours of reports in court about how they were decent kids that had just "got in with the wrong crowd" but they conspired to lure another man to a meeting place and stabbed him 28 times until he died.

They were well-known to Police, having managed to evade prosecution by intimidating victims and witnesses with ever more horrific assaults, stabbings, shootings and murders. The only crimes they'd ever been convicted of were minor assaults (years ago) and minor drug offenses.

A wrong-un is a wrong-un. Perhaps a custodial won't do him any good. But it'll do more good than letting a nasty little scrote think he can get away with a knife assault.

Troll.

Who is Gatsby then?

I just told you, pay attention at the back.

OP, I can't give any proper advice as my kids are only young, but i was a bit of a tosser in my teens, drugs, fighting and all that shit. But my parents both moved away from Leicester (different directions as they were divorced) and I had the chance to change things by moving up to Halifax with my dad. Fortunately I understood this would be a good change and took the opportunity and things worked out well for me and my parents.

just don't give up on him, tell him you'll help him and make him understand that even if he does go down you'll still be there for him. Hopefully this will give him the strength to get through his stretch. At 17 he has a good chance of changing, hopefully he has seen that now.

Awful situation to be in, I hope you and your family get through it well.

gatsby is a troll or an idiot or both

and definitely without question, a complete wrong 'un

The Police have a difficult job to do and they virtually never see people who have turned their lives around and are now good/clean etc etc. Because they don't get 999 shouts to people being reasonable... So I would take Gatsby's input with a bucket of salt.

From a more health-based viewpoint I do get to see people who went feral between 16-25 say, and then get it together, become responsible, good parents etc. So if the OP's boy has insight into what he did wrong, is willing to change, to live somewhere away from the people he has been around, I'd want him to be helped with that and try and keep him out of the system. Once.

But sadly sometimes some people cannot/will not be helped and you might just have to wait for that stuff to burn out.

For what it's worth, I have very relevant experience of a similar situation, the difference being that i was the sibling of a "wrong-un". My parents went down the "protect at all costs" route and the costs have been immeasurable. Still hasn't ended well 25 years down the line - it was never going to.

In my experience, forcing the offending party to face up to the consequences of actions would have had far better results than protecting them from the law, mental health professionals, social services etc.

I won't comment any more on my experiences as it's a very personal thing, suffice to say, my opinions were hard won. Very hard won.

sad mate, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence"...

Didn't work out in your case, doesn't mean it cannot in others.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a decent, law-abiding adult; a fine, upstanding member of society, who, as a youth, held a parent at knifepoint and threatened to slice their face off?

The reason I ask, is that I can name several people who did similar things as youths, who all ended up committing further offenses as adults. And I can name 2 off the top of my head that died before they got to their mid twenties.

They were all good lads though 😉

offer to drop the charges in exchange for 6 months, or more, voluntary abroad with a charity organisaton, for example :

http://www.gvi.co.uk/volunteer-abroad/?gclid=CI7l2vH0qsYCFQXJtAodOu0Pig

should be enough to turn things around and give him a new outlook...

offer to drop the charges in exchange for 6 months, or more, voluntary abroad with a charity organisaton, for example :

😆

gatsby - Member
Can anyone point me in the direction of a decent, law-abiding adult; a fine, upstanding member of society, who, as a youth, held a parent at knifepoint and threatened to slice their face off?
The reason I ask, is that I can name several people who did similar things as youths, who all ended up committing further offenses as adults. And I can name 2 off the top of my head that died before they got to their mid twenties.
They were all good lads though

If it didn't mean she'd get the sack, my wife who is a social worker (previously child protection) could point out quite a few.

I bet, if her professional pride allowed it, she could name hundreds more that didn't turn their lives round.

If Gatsby really is Shibboleth (which seems a good call) then the level of hypocrisy being displayed here is quite impressive. Better things to do than dig but it's tempting.

Go with your instinct OP. You know him better than anyone.

This place does make me realise that it's not okay to have a non fluffy bunny approach to stuff, gatsby speaks from his experience and opinion and cougar his opinion. I spoke from my experience and opinion. Giving folk a hard time just because they may have a different opinion or experience doesn't make your opinion or experience any more valid.
Whichever way it goes for the OPs lad, I hope the OP and his family can overcome it all and move on in peace and harmony for the rest of their lives.

Professional pride doesn't come into it. Of course she could. And she'd be perfectly willing to do so too. My point is that it is perfectly possible. Generally the ones who manage it are lucky enough to avoid time in any kind of youth offenders institution. Because once they get in there they get caught up in a whole other world which takes a particularly steely resolve to ignore.

Gatsby/Shibboleth is a roadie and the biggest "fluffy bunny" on the site when it comes to doped-up roadies. Using PEDs is illegal, leads to personality disorders and the last murder in my town was committed by a roadie. Another useless anecdote of course. I believe the OP when he says his son is a good kid - who didn't go the step too far of using the knife.

the opinions of folk who have gotten their world view from their one personal experience (from which they seemingly haven't recovered emotionally, let's call them something like maybe, problem adults) don't really stand up against the opinions of people who encounter many problem youths on a daily basis..

Character no, his peer group probably.

Edit: the above was in reply to a now-deleted Gatsby post.

Gatsby - I think that last post is OTT and have reported it. That is just nasty to someone who came here for support. There is putting a contrary view and then there is being a plain a***.