Legal electric scooters.

You presumably you rented it? I think that’s the only legal option.

Yes rented. Use the app to locate the scooter.

I use the Zwings scooters in Cheltenham occasionally and find them and the app quite good. I sometimes see the scooters being used after dark with faulty lights which is a bit concerning.

Normally use for trips where I cannot use my fixie beater and need to go faster than walking. Costs me just over three quid to go a couple of miles into town so not something I would use regularly when cycling is (almost) free.

I do see quite a bit of crap behaviour from other riders - e.g. weaving along pavements, ignoring traffic signals, riding two up etc.

Overall I think they are a good thing and would really like to see privately owned scooters being allowed on public roads - I would consider getting one and paying a reasonable amount for insurance if the law changes.

I do, they're really handy. Since having long COVID I can't ride my normal bike, and though I've now got an ebike I'd never leave it locked up in central Bristol.

The scooters cost about the same price to get into town as the bus, but take half the time, and get me where actually I need to be, not just somewhere generally in the centre. They're also COVID safe, ie you're not cooped up in a crowded bus with loads of sneezing maskless fools

I've got one of the Pure Electric ones (so, thoroughly illegal to use on public roads ...)

It's actually down at my Mum's house where there's a load of LTNs and other traffic restrictions in place and it's *brilliant*.

Great little thing to ride, easy to nip to the shops etc. There are so many people using them that the police simply don't bother. Outside of an occasional "crackdown" phase, they'll basically just ignore it.

The sooner they're legal, the better.

I must admit I am surprised at how far more powerful electric bikes/scooters seem to be tolerated in my area. The local Deliveroo/JustEat/UberEats riders seem to be split into 90% dodgy electric vehicles and just 10% normal pushbikes.

I would be surprised if anyone on a private scooter equivalent to the rental ones was pulled by the police but I guess you are always subject to being sued for damages if you are involved in an accident.

Overall I think they are a good thing and would really like to see privately owned scooters being allowed on public roads

They basically are, the supposed laws that should prevent them being used in public roads (and about as much on pavements) aren't being enforced round my way. As far as I can tell you can do whatever the **** you want now. Strap laptop batteries and the biggest bastard motor China has to your apollo? Crack on. Chip your e-scooter then weave all over the road at night, without lights, wearing a black hoodie? Not a problem.

It's the wild west for 'E-mobility' these days...

I fancy a 'E-Longboard' they look like utterly terrifying fun...

They're brilliant and lethal.

Just seen a news article that GWR are banning escooters from their trains due to the risk of fires caused by overheating batteries. Apparently several other operators have also done that.

I can kind of understand it as there is no regulation of these devices but it will impact users who genuinely use them for joined up journeys.

There is such a blatant hypocrisy around e-scooters. A police force was proudly bleating on Twitter how they permanently confiscated one from a 17-year-old the other day while he was riding to school, with a larger fine and more points than had he killed someone while driving a car.

Large cities are happy to have roads blocked solidly with ICE vehicles (or even EVs, they still clog things up), many of which are now illegally modified when it comes to DPFs. Yet more have DPFs that are faulty, with bus operators being a particular highlight here. The number of electric buses in most cities can be measured on one hand.

It's ridiculous to suggest that there won't be injuries and deaths associated with e-scooters. But doing so also requires an acceptance that there are daily deaths and thousands of injuries as a result of vehicle traffic in towns and cities. Ultimately the person most at risk on an e-scooter is themselves, and every person riding an e-scooter instead of driving is one less car on the roads.

If insurance is a problem, then implement a tax on e-scooters at point of sale that goes into something equivalent to the MIB. The reason train operators are panicking about batteries is because there's a large grey market thanks entirely to government restrictions.

I suggested to my local shopkeepers cousin(teenage girl) that if she put stickers on her scooter that mimic the colour and shapes of those on the legal hire ones, its quite possible that the police were they in crack down mode would only see what looks like a legal scooter and not stop her.

Sort of camouflaged in plain sight 🙂

I've never used one but if they were legal I'd imagine that my wife would have one like a shot. It would be ideal for her to use to get in to work from the park and ride as the bus service is so unreliable.

Would love one. sadly the risk, however small, at the moment of being caught as an otherwise upstanding member of the community with a driving licence who needs said licence for both my job and hobbies is large.

the risk to a non-licenced member of the public is pretty much limited to having the scooter confiscated. which seems unfair.

I use them all time, here in Liverpool they’re very popular (hire e-scooters and pedal assist bikes).
But road users still seem to not like sharing the roads with other slower vehicles. Some of our roads are quite busy, turning right can be fraught with danger and regular beeps/aggressive driving occurs.
And secondly and this is just me….my body is wrecked afterwards! The roads are pretty bad, 15mph on rock hard wheels can be quite jarring.
That said, I still take them for my 3 mile commute and when I’m going out into town drinking….I don’t take one home before anyone suggests it.

How the hell are they charged? I see , all over the country, the things abandoned in back alleys miles from the town centres. Surely they are not scooped up every night, taken to a charging point, checked for fitness of use then distrubuted to pick up points .
Nice in principle, crap in administration as they cannot be controlled and seem to be mostly ridden by dimwits who care not a toss for other. Those that do it properly are put to shame.

Here in city centre Liverpool they are generally well kept, only left in designated parking spots and with sufficient charge for the ride I need.
I believe they are collected / swapped when necessary. The main “hub” is very close to my apartment.
When you complete a ride you have to end it in a parking zone, then take a photo of the scooter and send it to the company.
Administrative wise, at least this one here, appears to work really well.
The app shows you where to collect scooters from, then it shows you where you are allowed to park it.

I’ve mentioned this before, it isn’t particularly cheap. If me and the girlfriend are going for a night out, it’s cheaper to get an Uber (about £11) as opposed to us both renting scooters. Scooters will cost about £6.50 to £7 each. We have a number of slow zones where the scooter automatically slows to walking pace. Adds to the bill!

I have a technically illegal one that i use to do the last few miles of my commute.
Considering mine is limited to 25km/h, i can't see that the police would be that bothered considering the morons (particularly deliveroo) who are on 'assisted pedal' bikes who seem to do 30mph without pedaling

These things have completely passed me by other than the odd online rant.

What's the logic behind only rental ones being legal?

What’s the logic behind only rental ones being legal?

money for the companies renting them

ensure the scooters out there are within the power/speed limitations

rental ones can be geofenced, and can be slowed to a lower max speed in pedestrianised areas.

if they turn out to be crap/stupid/dangerous they can U-turn and ban them fairly easily

The IOM is proposing legalising them:
https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/environment/draft-regulations-to-make-e-scooters-legal-on-the-way-613507

"The regulations include that it will become legal to drive e-scooters on the island’s roads and cycle lanes but they will remain prohibited from being ridden on footways and in pedestrianised areas.

They will only be allowed on roads that have a speed limit of 30mph or less, they will be limited to 250 watts and around 15mph (the general standard across Europe), and riders would have to be 14 years or older.

Also, helmets would not be mandatory but recommended."

How the hell are they charged?

The Voi ones in Northampton have their batteries changed rather than taking the scooter to a charge point. There's a van (I assume probably more than one) that drives around swapping flat batteries for fully charged ones. I wonder what the risk assessment is on driving around with that lot in the back of a van?

How the hell are they charged? I see , all over the country, the things abandoned in back alleys miles from the town centres. Surely they are not scooped up every night, taken to a charging point, checked for fitness of use then distrubuted to pick up points .

The batteries are good for about 25miles or so - given that the average journey on an e-scooter is in the order of a few minutes, the things will last a week or so between charges. And yes, they're picked up in a van and either have the batteries swapped out or simply charged overnight and taken back.

Nice in principle, crap in administration as they cannot be controlled and seem to be mostly ridden by dimwits who care not a toss for other. Those that do it properly are put to shame.

The restrictions on riding them are insane - to use a rental one, you have to upload a valid driving licence to the app which cuts out one of the most ideal user bases, kids going to school etc. There are further restrictions by geofencing where, in pedestrianised areas it cuts the speed down to about 4-6mph. And if you try and rent one late at night, the app makes you go through a reaction test to prove you're not drunk. Fail that and it locks your access.

So they're controlled MUCH more than cars!
Honestly, if they applied even half as much check and test to cars/drivers, we'd actually be getting somewhere with safety on the roads. But no, got to keep those lethal e-scooterists honest!

There was supposed to be legislation going through Parliament within part of the Transport Bill to legalise them but that got kicked down the road while the Government concentrate on demonising immigrants and the poor. Maybe there are no big Tory donors in the land of micromobility.

I think Lime ran a charging scheme where you apply to join, charge them at home in return for free use/credits.

And for me, that IOM law makes it a moot point. I could see me getting my kids and wife a scooter for short trips to school and shops from where I live, but not when they have to ride on the road at max 15mph and the roads to the school are so busy at those times. While I understand the logic of the legislation, it doesn't really help

Anyone else use one?

Yes, I think they do.

I've used them on the continent - acres of space, good condition roads/cyclepaths, very pleasant experience. Also used them in Cambridge, totally different, you feel like you're taking your life in your hands the whole time! As much as I think they're a good idea for getting cars off the roads & for convenience, not sure we have the infrastructure or even space for them in a lot of UK locations.

FWIW we had a trial scheme locally, there were a huge amount of objections & it seemed universally hated, so it was abandoned & shows no sign of coming back. Although I think possibly the main problem was there's also a huge amount of illegal scooter use here, and they were getting lumped in alongside the legal ones when people were complaining. So maybe there needs to be more of a crackdown on illegal use first?

FWIW we had a trial scheme locally, there were a huge amount of objections & it seemed universally hated, so it was abandoned & shows no sign of coming back. Although I think possibly the main problem was there’s also a huge amount of illegal scooter use here, and they were getting lumped in alongside the legal ones when people were complaining. So maybe there needs to be more of a crackdown on illegal use first?

The studies are usually very binary - people either love them or hate them, there's very little middle ground. It's interesting that the "lovers" are usually students, younger people while the "haters" are almost exclusively the traditional NIMBY type. The demographics breakdown is basically that anyone under about 35 either uses them or would love to try them, anyone over about 45 wouldn't be seen dead on one, thinks they're dangerous, should be banned etc

What comes up most is the danger aspect and it's fascinating that the haters care so much about the supposed risk that the users are apparently subjecting themselves to. Same as with bikes where *everyone* will complain that you - the rider - are not wearing a helmet in spite of the fact it's got absolutely sod all to do with them or anyone else.

Ultimately the person most at risk on an e-scooter is themselves, and every person riding an e-scooter instead of driving is one less car on the roads.

You Sure? I reckon Pedestrians are about as at risk from E-scooterists as E-scooterists are from their own levels of ****tery, whipping along a mere 3 inches further off the ground, placed perfectly to head-butt a stranger at 15mph (assuming they've not chipped their scooter, which they probably have)...

And I have to assume that half the reason people opt for E-scooters is because they can't afford/lack a licence for a car, are they really removing huge numbers of cars from the roads, or just filling a gap in affordable transport that the humble bicycle addressed previously?

Generally I think we're just looking at the same old problem of consumer technologies outpacing legislation and our (wider society) ability to apply and enforce appropriate rules...

I always like posting this video when E-Scooters pop up:

I'd say we're still Mid-Apocalypse, it'll get worse before it improves. As ever The UK is just a laggy, miniature version of the US...

What’s the logic behind only rental ones being legal?

They're insured by default.

I find it sad that we seem to have given up on the potential of human powered cycles as the most sustainable way to travel in urban areas.

As a 50 year old, I use one daily. I guess you could say I live in a NIMBY type of environment, “exclusive” apartment block, local pub is the Yacht Club etc.
But loads of us use them; all ages. They are massively convenient for city centre getting around. To be fair though, we’ve had a few bites of the cherry with running different similar schemes and it seems that voi have managed to get it working. There was initial objections; and I’m sure further out in the more urban areas of the city that the scooters may be a bit more of “menance”….but the menance is really in the minds of the NIMBY type. Here in the city centre it does seem to work.
I do also get that to some people they may be an eyesore. But to me, it’s a small price to pay for reducing the amount of small car journeys people need to take. I very rarely have to make any car journeys within the city. It’s fantastic.
But, the biggest issue for me is “vehicular” road users making the scooters feel unsafe. Right turns in particular can feel very dangerous…..I have a dodgy right turn I need to make, it’s a 30mph road, but it’s on a wide road, cars probably think it’s a 40. So moving to the right hand side of the road at 15mph can be scary! Most car / van drivers won’t allow themselves to be slowed down, I get close passes fairly regularly, beeped at from very close range etc. While this attitude is about I don’t think I’d want my school aged children to use them, at least not on the busy roads.
I don’t mind the georestrictions, they are in place for a reason. My Docklands area has a large slow zone, while it increases the price of a journey, I’m never in that much of a rush where this is a big issue. It can be a bit embarrassing getting overtaken by a little old lady with pulling her shopping trolley along.

All that being said, I do prefer the pedal assisted bikes. But there’s less of them about.

The studies are usually very binary – people either love them or hate them, there’s very little middle ground. It’s interesting that the “lovers” are usually students, younger people while the “haters” are almost exclusively the traditional NIMBY type.

Human powered cycles is an interesting point.
I can’t really use my own bikes for most of the journeys I need to make. I’d happily use a human powered rental for my commute, but not when going out.
The idea of the scooters is to get people away from small car journeys and reduce city centre traffic. It’s not about getting people fitter or healthier. As a very frequent user I completely understand why.
On Friday I had a 3 mile journey to a meeting at 11am; then back home for 3pm. I don’t want to turn up sweaty to the meeting, nor do I want to have to think about locking up my own bike. After girlfriend finished work we then went out for the evening, a 2 mile scooter ride. The e-scooters and pedal assist bikes are perfect transport for this type of journey.

I find it sad that we seem to have given up on the potential of human powered cycles as the most sustainable way to travel in urban areas.

I'll keep banging this drum (not against you, but the world/UK in general) the main reason, and the only insurmountable reason that I - a fit and healthy cycling enthusiast - will not be cycling for utility; is that I will not be leaving my bike outdoors unattended while I'm at work, shopping etc. As I have absolutly no confidence it will be there, and in a ridable condition, when I return.
If I had a train-able commute I would consider a brompton.

They are more dangerous than bikes. And the ****ing things get dumped across pavements etc, which is ugly and dangerous. But I use them.

is that I will not be leaving my bike outdoors unattended while I’m at work, shopping etc.

In my neck of the woods a survey was recently done about providing secure bicycle parking in the town centre. There is a big bike theft problem so this would be welcome and may encourage more cycling. I currently use a (deliberately) scruffy 20 year old fixie for short journeys and lug around a big D-Lock but still am anxious about it being stolen or vandalised. I certainly would not leave it locked up in the town centre overnight as there are often bikes stripped of bits or with damaged wheels which presumably have been left out.

A lot more could and should be done to change how local transport works. Secure storage for bikes and e-scooters and legalising the latter would be a great thing.

What’s the logic behind only rental ones being legal?

I work for a motorcycle insurer and we looked into risk of insuring them and deemed it not worth it.

One of the biggest differences between the legal fleet ones and many of the ones anyone can buy, is that the fleet ones are heavy and have a large front wheel, they have very high tipping point, so easy to hit something like a kerb and go straight over bars. The bigger the front wheel, the lesser the risk, as well as being heavy.

The cheap ones are often light with small front wheel and tip forwards much easier.

Secure storage for bikes

Think I saw something on telly once (from Japan probably) which was a fully automated system that stores bikes underground, works a bit like a giant bike-jukebox! Perfect solution but again never going to happen in this country.

I use mine purely because it means i don't get all sweaty on the way in, plus i don't have to lock the bike up and hope it is still there for the journey home

Think I saw something on telly once (from Japan probably) which was a fully automated system that stores bikes underground, works a bit like a giant bike-jukebox! Perfect solution but again never going to happen in this country.

This:

Agree though, the UK has no idea how to do bike (or scooter) storage. In most cases, it's an afterthought at best. On the rare occasions it's planned in from the start it's invariably made more complicated than it needs to be and often in trying to be too clever, it comes out as being worse than bog standard.

Human powered cycles is an interesting point.
I can’t really use my own bikes for most of the journeys I need to make. I’d happily use a human powered rental for my commute, but not when going out.
The idea of the scooters is to get people away from small car journeys and reduce city centre traffic. It’s not about getting people fitter or healthier. As a very frequent user I completely understand why.

Outside of that there London bike rental Schemes seem to have have a much tougher time, I put it down to not receiving the same levels of subsidy. I live in Reading Where We had a Bike Rental scheme that failed abysmally.

As for using privately owned bicycles for utility? The Criminal element only take interest if you go and use an expensive and/or pretty bike, so just use a cheap, ugly rotter you don't need a Ti ego-chariot to pop to Aldi or Primark...

Mine is a no-brand Fixed thing with bolted axles and nothing to really attract a thief... They can't easily ride it and it's not worth much if sold on.

..the UK has no idea how to do bike (or scooter) storage...

Not totally true, Also in Reading (round the back of the station) you'll find these two tier stores allowing more bikes to be stored in less space without needing a robotic, subterranean bicycle-jukebox...

There are ways to do bike storage efficiently without resorting to expensive, complex Tech just for the sake of it...

But yeah it saddens me that the concept of human powered transport has fallen so far out of fashion that all of our transport debates now seem to revolve around Li-Ion battery fires and how many Watts are appropriate for trundling to Waitrose...

This was in the local paper a couple of years back

Cycling home tonight, slogging up a long slow hill and I hear the whine of a voi scooter creep alongside me at 1/2 mph more than I was doing and just stayed there on a snail race overtake. It's a busy road and I hate being hemmed in to the kerb so I put in a few turns and left him behind.

Then he comes alongside again. At that point I said can you not just piss off and he complained that he only had one speed and I wouldn't let him overtake. Err, if you can't actually overtake just stay behind! It was bizarre.

Which made me think, are they that on/off that it is only one speed (15mph or whatever the weight/battery/incline allows)?

Presumably limited to 25kph.

Me or the scooter 😆

HIm

are they that on/off that it is only one speed

All the ones I've ridden had a variable throttle up to 15mph (or whatever)