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Morning all wonder if there is any advice or precedents set on a small issue my father in law has.
Bought a new (old house) as a project to extend on a relatively nice road in leafy surrey. There are two lots of planning permission that have gone through, one for a rear extension –which has been completed now, and one for a two storey side extension, in keeping with the aesthetics of the original house.
Now, the planning peeps and through experience were happy there was to be no issues with what was proposed, so prelim works were started – knocking down of knackered garage, and dig out the footings. In the meantime there was a tree at the front of the house that is a right pain in the arris, it’s large route structure causes problems for access. Now the father in law has always had intentions of doing up the front of the property as well which included cutting down said tree. So I say’s let’s check there are no TPO’s on it.
So I phone the council they say it’s not in a conservation area and there are no TPO’s, so as long as it’s on your land you can do what you want. They take my name as refence and the house, and I get the chaps name too..
So tree starts getting lopped down.
In the meantime the planning app for the side extension turns up being approved on the condition that said tree is left alone full stop!!!!! Do these departments not speak to each other?
So where do we stand with this – work cannot afford to stop on the build??
Cheers all,
Simple. Once the tree is down, leave it alone.
We made sure that all our trees were chopped down before we applied for planning.
Speak to a planning specialst or fess up to Council. I wouldn't expect those depts to be speaking to each other.
We found that if you enquire whether a tree has a TPO on it then the council will slap one on straight away anyhow.
Best speak to them sooner rather than later re your issue though.
So where do we stand with this – work cannot afford to stop on the build??
Call me old fashioned but I'd have waited till I had planning permission [i]before[/i] I started knocking buildings down and putting footings in!!
becasue it was part of an additional application the building inspector agreed that it was never going to be an issue, a form of verbal agreeance was in place (i don't need to get in to the arguments of verbal and written -i know). That said, the official document has still not been received in the post, but a phone call from planning gave the go ahead. it was only looking online (you can do that now), that this particular condition was spotted.
[s]I agree with the-muffin-man. The whole planning system is based on the idea that you have to seek permission BEFORE carrying out any work. If you choose to ignore this and commence work without permission you stand the very real risk of being refused permission and even being made to reverse any work carried out without permission. Planning laws are there to protect the environment for all and may sometimes be at odds with the wishes of individual landowners.[/s]
Sorry, just re-read your post. You already had permission, but council depts not talking to each other. Nightmare!
Good luck, I hope it all works out for you!
Building inspector and the planning department are two different things, he shouldn't have been giving you advice on a planning issue. My local authority contracts out its building regs services to a private company so they don't even share the same building any more.
rockhopper, that would make sense - and i agree with other comments on not starting work until applications have come through. That said these were in effect two unrelated issues. He wants to extend the house, he wants to knowck down a tree - i just wish various department s would speak to each other - the council have it on record that we were going to knock the tree down, so why complete the planning application 2 weeks later with a condition that it's not to be knocked down/pruned/scrathced etc...??
it's very frustrating, as i inderstand as part of the planning application a report about tress (including route systems) has to be submitted - i don't get how this wasn't picked up..
I guess really it's a stop work on the tree and probably against better judgement (its not my house and i wont be listened too anyway) carry on with the work on the build and explain that we received permission for the tree works in between the application..
"That said, the official document has still not been received in the post,"
so why not say 'oops tree already dead before we got this....'
"That said, the official document has still not been received in the post,"so why not say 'oops tree already dead before we got this....'
this has been the general concensus- however i'm not show how lenient councils are with matters like these..
Generally councils operate on the "are they taking the urine" basis. I would tell them, explain it's a genuine mistake and offer to plant another tree.
fess up. and if the worst comes to the worst offer to replace the tree or add a few more trees in where its more convenient.
There is normally logic to why a tree is kept in place.
A common factor in the cause of subsidence is removal of trees. They suck up huge amounts of water, you remove the tree and suddenly the soil becomes saturated to the extent things become unstable and suddenly you've caused yourself subsidence.
It could be the proximatey of a neighbour, know problems with soil type, knowledge of root growth, an endless list that meant they had your best interests served when saying leave the tree alone.
Crowing/topping a tree is usually the best thing to do with trees close to your property as this usually slows down root growth, where taking it out completely upsets the equiliberium of the surronding sub soil. If this is all you've done, no worries. If however you've nearly removed the tree then your into a different problem as your breaching the terms of the planning approval provided to you.
I'd come clean to the council, tell them openly and honestly what you've done. Be prepared that they may re visit the depth of the foundations for your build, as you have changed the sub soil consistency.
Best of luck, local council planning departments and building control officers are reasonable people, if your open and straight with them they will guide you in what you need to do to extract yourself from this mess.
JP- i wouldn't expect planning to be overly concerned that tree removal would cause subsidence; but Building Control definately would.
i would suspect that the planning condition would be for screening the side extension.
if i was in the op shoes i would write a letter to the person he spoke to at the council confirming that there was no reason why the tree could not be felled and make sure that it was dated when the conversation took place.
i would continue with the building works and continue with the tree felling works but be prepared that a new tree might need to be planted after the side extension had been completed.
any concerns about ground conditions/subsidence will be covered by the inspecting BCO (and possibly a quick chat to a structural engineer).