[Closed] legal advice please - neighbours extension & possible dodgy solicitors content?

firstly I'd go ont he council website - most put all planning applications online and you should be able to see what was done and when. If it's there then your solicitor shoudl have seen it too.

As far as litigation is concerned - are the solicitors suing themselves or the seller?

You probably have something depending on what was signed etc.

HOWEVER

Also, we have a 3yo son and im concerned about his welfare during the building of extention with the close proximity of the materials/scaffolding etc. Im sure his/our first summer in our lovely new house is going to be comprimised by this development.

I have no idea what was going on when I was 3. Stick to the facts and leave the emotional stuff to the daily wail

I have no idea what was going on when I was 3. Stick to the facts and leave the emotional stuff to the daily wail

That's fine, but we are talking about an already limited amount of outside space here.
Would you want your toddler running around amongst/under scaffolding/building materials during the heat of the summer? or should I just keep him indoors?
I feel its a fair point.
The fact is, we would have been concerned had we known of the approved plans, and would have proceded with the purchase very differently as a result.

he'll probably think its brilliant.

Yes, scaffolding is ace.

Roof tiles falling on head, not ace.

The fact is, we would have been concerned had we known of the approved plans, and would have proceded with the purchase very differently as a result.

I do think you need to stick to the facts.

1) did the seller lie in any documentation about this proposed extension

2) did you solicitor do a reasonable job in checking if there was development proposed and informing you if there was.

3) if either 1 or 2 are found to be a problem then how much loss of value is there/how much less would you have paid.

4) who you have to sue to get the money resulting from 3).

I'm not sure you'll get much compo for scaffolding being on the house next door for a few months, tbh.

I think you need proper legal advice, for a change.

The building work itself and your three year old are irrelevant I'm afraid and IME (having had an attic extension last year and my neighbour building a pretty substantial extension at the moment is that mess/etc is overstated. Your son will be fine. Don't waste time on this bit as regardless of whether you agree, this is a complete non-starter from any legal perspective.

Your solicitor should have found the planning application assuming that there was one. That said, if you also asked the seller whether anything was planned and they lied, that may be an avenue to explore.

Get on to a solicitor asap and let your house move solicitors know and if relevant the seller too.

Back OT

the seller has a duty to inform you and clearly they did not

The solicitor was paid to do a search and failed to do it so i assume you have a case aginst them for being rubbish

I assume the later is easier to prove than the former but I would be 100% certain the sellers knew anyway and decided not to tell you ..whether you can prove this I dont know

What you are enititled to in terms of compensation I dont know
I dont hink it needs stating but IAMNAL

firstly I'd go ont he council website - most put all planning applications online and you should be able to see what was done and when. If it's there then your solicitor shoudl have seen it too.

I was on your side until you threw in the spurious stuff about how your 3 year old is going to be permanently damaged by someone's house extension.

I mention this not to be rude, but because if you want to argue your case to people you might want to avoid them having the reaction I had. Which was to dismiss your otherwise legitimate complaint out of hand because of this bit of parental nonsense...

1) solicitor should have done local searches with council, these should have contained details of any planning . If solicitor did the search but failed to spot the planning application he has some fault , if council failed to disclose they may have some liability.
2) solicitor ought to have raised pre contract enquiries with seller which should have covered neibours developments the standard reply to precontract enquirys is either "None to the vendors knowledge" or "rely on your own searches" if not raised pre contract enquiries or not spoted a warning answer solicitor is at fault if neighbour has lied they are at fault.

I would ask to see the local searches and replies to pre contract inquiries obtained by your solicitor. Then make a judgement .

My conveyancing knowledge is 20 years out of date.

1) did the seller lie in any documentation about this proposed extension

2) did you solicitor do a reasonable job in checking if there was development proposed and informing you if there was.

3) if either 1 or 2 are found to be a problem then how much loss of value is there/how much less would you have paid.

4) who you have to sue to get the money resulting from 3).

I'm not sure you'll get much compo for scaffolding being on the house next door for a few months, tbh.

People have successfully sued the seller for failure to fully disclose where there have been material omissions....

I was on your side until you threw in the spurious stuff about how your 3 year old is going to be permanently damaged by someone's house extension.

I mention this not to be rude, but because if you want to argue your case to people you might want to avoid them having the reaction I had. Which was to dismiss your otherwise legitimate complaint out of hand because of this bit of parental nonsense...

Sorry, thats my 3 year old, and I dont want anything falling on him in the garden.
Its fine if you were aware of the issue, but for it to not be disclosed before splashing out is my beef.

Absolutely, your issues actually stand up well, you don't need to embellish it with sentiment and emotion. Your loss (the biggest factor) and the inconvince of having the building work (the little part) are you issues. Stick to them, a couple of months of building is nothing compared to the lifetime impact. Don't fixate on the little thing.

I was on your side until you threw in the spurious stuff about how your 3 year old is going to be permanently damaged by someone's house extension.
I mention this not to be rude, but because if you want to argue your case to people you might want to avoid them having the reaction I had. Which was to dismiss your otherwise legitimate complaint out of hand because of this bit of parental nonsense...

and I dont want anything falling on him in the garden.

You could let your son out there to play, and then if he gets injured sue the builders?

(good luck with the claim, I'd be pissed off too)

what about property being devalued as a result of loss of natural light to already enclosed garden?

Absolutely

plus inconvenience of putting up with undisclosed building works?

Not part of your case. You have to put up with the inconvenience if planning was granted. There's no legal issue for this, only the end results (eg loss of light, devaluation etc)

Overreact, much?

Not really - I was making a genuine point - the OP will get a lot further if he sticks with what is relevant. Adding "AND MY CHILD MIGHT DIE!!!" to it makes it all look like knee-jerk NIMBYism and will make people take it less seriously.

It's not your neighbour's fault of course, but you might be able to negotiate some building arrangements that minimise disruption. If there's scaffolding directly adjacent to the garden, presumably they can use extra netting and boarding to keep stuff from dropping?

It would seem like someone has lied or cocked up with regard to vendor questionnaire or searches. I suppose you'd have to get the opinion of a surveyor as to whether there was any material devaluation of your property as a result before you decide whether to take legal action.

You'll also need to check that a party wall agreement has been made. Obviously if you were to discover that the previous owners had Greed this it would make your case against them pretty watertight.

A pretty bad situation and one that's probably already caused quite a lot of upset...

Did you search recent planning applications for the road yourself before making your original offer to buy the property?

Putting the above aside, if the seller did receive a full set of plans from the neighbour you may still have a job proving that unless the neighbour is willing to confirm it in writing.

The solicitor's duty to the client is the main line to go down here - forget about suing the seller, your solicitor has potentially not discharged their duties if the work was subject to planning permission and you can find the original planning app on searches (assuming the work isn't being done under permitted development, or as linked worked to an original permission granted more than 3 years ago that was done in phases, with the roof works being the final phase).

Also worth checking to see if your home insurance provides any legal cover as what you should do at this point is take some independent advice on what your conveyancing solicitor should have done as part of the process.

If you don't allow a temporary wayleave (or whatever it is known as) for the scaffolding your neighbour will still be able to put a scaffold up just it will cost him more. The danger is that the scaffolder will not use an engineered solution (as Safety law requires) and will just throw something up which may be less safe than that originally planned.

Good luck with your claim.

Surely if the concerns over your son's safety are so significant then at least this is the one element that you do have control over. Simply refuse access for the scaffolders onto your property. It might p*ss your neighbour off but your genuine concerns over your son's welfare are surely more important.

That one dealt with you can then progress your concerns over the more tangible deficiencies in the conveyancing process.

Thanks guys.
I have a copy of the plans in my possession, along with letter addressed to previous owners so I think I'm pretty watertight there. The seller left them in the kitchen remember !
Scaffolding wise, the close proximity of our properties means that completing the building works without having access from my property will be very difficult for them. And if they manage, they will be working right against and above our border. The party wall is effectively his house

have they served a party wall notice?

I'd be wary of upsetting the neighbour because a) they've done nothing wrong and b) they will carry on being your neighbour long after the vendor, estate agent and solicitor have disappeared. You might want to do your own extension in the future and it's good have the on board for a load of reasons.

IMO you've got a potential claim against both the seller and the solicitor.

I'm not sure why other posters seem to think proving the case against the seller would be difficult - you've had a response from the purchase process that they didn't know of any developments, and they've left you the documents they received dated last August that say there is. Am I missing something or is that not pretty much "case closed" on that side of things?

The solicitor appears to have not done what you engaged and paid him / her for - I'd think you'd at the very least be able to get your fees back, if not pursuing for consequential loss.

I am not legally qualified, opinion only.

Amen

Get some third party legal advise. Use you house insurance cover if you have it.

This is a crap situation to be in.

Would you have moved in had you known about the proposed works? From the sounds of what it's going to do I wouldn't (sorry to put a downer on your new home).

You need to be going after both your solicitor and the sellers. Get some proper legal advice. I bet your solicitors are now very worried (hence their current actions) that they will get the full brunt of it. You may want to approach them calmly (as though you are not after their blood) about the lack of disclosure by the sellers and see what advice they offer in that respect as they will be your allies in any action against the seller. Leaving the documents on the table is a really low move.

Concentrate on the issues of loss of value and that you wouldn't have moved in had you known and not on the danger aspect (although I understand your concerns it is not the best approach and you might need to use that later on to block access or negotiate with next door as they ought to compensate you for using your property as you won't be able to use your own space at times and will have to put up with builders coming into your space).

I really would be after taking the sellers to the cleaners over this! (and then the solicitors)

Assuming you're still planning on staying in this house that you've just bought, I'd be very hesitant to make life difficult for the neighbours - as you acknowledge, it's not their fault this situation has arisen, and getting arsey now over some very short term disruption and scaffolding might mean you have an unpleasant relationship with your next door neighbours for the next thirty years.

I think getting 60% plus of helpful responses on here is pretty good going! Ignore the others. I'd be looking for some compo from both the seller and your solicitor. I'm guessing your solicitor will be better equipped to make you pursuit of them more painful and costly. Compo will also (I am guessing) be limited to the value of your loss and you're going to have a difficult time quantifying that.

I'd start by contacting the seller and proposing a solution that is acceptable to you. If they ignore it then legal is your only option. I'd be bloody annoyed but I'd echo the 'keep the new neighbour sweet' sentiment, but you already know that.

I have a copy of the plans in my possession, along with letter addressed to previous owners so I think I'm pretty watertight there.

You wouldn't even need that. The very existence of a planning application is proof that they knew, as they'd have had to be notified as part of the planning process.

This is a failure of the solicitors to find out any planning requests and also a failure of the seller to disclose something that was relevant to the transaction.
This is not the fault of the neighbor or the planners.
Keep any complaints factual and put your emotions to one side.
Its a crap situation and the solicitor needs their arse kicking for not spotting it.

tbh id have been straight down the solicitors when i found it on the table.

much easier to get things like this sorted out in the first week.

The very existence of a planning application is proof that they knew, as they'd have had to be notified as part of the planning process.

Not true, there is no statutory obligation to inform neighbours. A site notice is all that is legally required, although in practice neighbours are usually notified.

Do you know whether you had an official local authority search or a search carried out by a search company?

Lets face it both the solicitor and the vendors of your new property are banking on you finding it to difficult and costly to pursue. You should either get on with it or live with it, you have a good case on them both though. As for the neighbors, just tell them that you will not give them permission to put up the scaffolding until you are completely satisfied that the structure is safe. Ask for proof of this and all the relevant risk assessments for all processes that will be undertaken by the builders (around your property). Also copies of the scaffold and building companies public liability insurance. A little delay will upset them of course.

[url= http://www.practicalconveyancing.co.uk/content/view/7836/0/ ]http://www.practicalconveyancing.co.uk/content/view/7836/0/[/url]

i was under the impression the seller did not have to tell you, but if you asked and they lied then they are liable.

Solicitor is different, it is there job to find out.

Yep, no point getting into agro with the neighbours as your could be obliged to disclose if you ever had problems with the neighbours as and when you come to sell! 😕

I feel so sorry for the builders,having a 3 year old thats able to climb scaffolding and the parents dont seem to be able to control,lets hope they priced a nice secure fence into the price, or your neighbours going to get a shock when they add that onto the bill.Also the cost of a party wall surveyor,and the limited hours you will amke them work incase it disturbs your peace.

Who would want to be a builder.........

Scaffolding wise, the close proximity of our properties means that completing the building works without having access from my property will be very difficult for them.

My mate is in a similar situation - his neighbour is being a pain and refusing to allow builders onto their garden. But they haven't realised all that is going to happen is they get a really messy wall where the builders haven't bothered/can't reach.

Or if you really really want to annoy your next door neighbours check out the right to light options - you have 12 months after building starts and if they side with you then they potentially have to pull the extension down.....

Lets be clear, I have no intention of falling out with my neighbour and I intend to be cooperative with them. Although, as a side note, they mentioned to my wife that a 'frosted window' would be installed overlooking our garden, and its certainly not on the plans that i've witnessed.

I also have no intention to go high and mighty and sue for traumatic abuse to my son, I was merely expressing that im naturally concerned for the safety of my young boy - and that keeping him away from a building site will be inconvenient. The positioning of our houses and bordering means that ANYTHING falling down would land straight into my garden.

Project - im not certain that you are mocking, but your tone confuses me somewhat. If you are mocking, please do one.

Im going to research all advice offered, thanks guys.

Despite already knowing the inevitable outcome of the extention works, ive just had the sinking feeling after visiting our local council website and finding all manor of details about this planning application within 2 minutes. Including addition of side aspect window (which frankly im amazed has been approved as it will 'look' directly into out property).
Im now armed to the gills with drawings and signed documents, will be keen to hear what my solicitor has to say about this addition.

do you own a set of bombers? i suggest you get them out and do some "owning"

in all seriousness, dont let your emotions get in the way of the facts.

the following taken from local council officers report:

- Two letters of representation have been received. These raise the following summarised
concerns: the proposed first floor windows would overlook adjacent properties and reduce their
privacy;

Too right!

The proposed window to the northern elevation would be
obscurely glazed and it is not considered that it would lead to any significant impact upon the
amenities of nearby residents.

easy for them to say. There is currently no window overlooking my property - obscuration isnt enough to convince me that my amenities arent impacted!

As a parent to a three year old and also friends with a stone mason who dropped a chisel from scaffolding onto someone below I can see where the OP is coming from!

The solicitor will have Professional Indemnity Insurance, so if they have screwed up it will be their insurers paying out. If it is a clear cut case they will be keen to settle and move on, so be sure of what you want from the claim.

The vendors will be more difficult as they are unlikely to have insurance so will be stumping up from there own money - hence they are likely to battle to the last rather than roll over and pay (unless they are cash rich).

See if you have any legal expenses insurance (bank accounts, credit cards, FSB membership, Union Memberships and your Home/ Car Insurance all may have this feature as a bolt on extra - if you have consult another solicitor and set the hares running. Your original solicitor will not like a potential complaint letter from your new solicitor and will have to put their insurers in notice of a potential claim if they have not done so already.

This is not legal advice in any way, it is just what I did when I bought some commercial premises a few years ago and the solicitors screwed up, we received compensation that ran into tens of thousands because of their error. As a warning, even on a relatively straightforward case (the solicitor admitted liability almost immediately)the settlement took over a year. The insurers viewed liability as the first issue and then negotiated over 'Quantum' - how much we had lost financially for quite some time.

Your lad might learn some new words from the builders!

I feel so sorry for the builders,having a 3 year old that's able to climb scaffolding and the parents don't seem to be able to control

Don't really think that anyone can criticize a parents right or wish to keep their child safe from external factors that the parent can't control.
I for one wouldn't be concerned about my boys climbing up scaffolding.. (I'm more concerned about the 4 foot retaining wall that I chose to build in my garden, and the odd dog poo we miss)... playing unsupervised comes with inherent risk..
but, mortar dust, falling bricks, tools, nails, pieces of insulation and asphalt/bitumen roofing stuff potentially falling into my yard and finding its way into little hands ABSOLUTELY would be a valid cause for concern.

However, as pointed out above, emotional issues don't really carry much weight,
Perhaps a friendly chat with the neighbor and his GC to address your concerns and with granted access and no challenges, I'd imagine they'd address falling debris risk like they would with a high street scaffold wrap.

Sounds tome suspiciously like the previous owners chatted with neighbour and sold up on the back of it before it got to the stage your in .

In scotland you have to declare these things on the home sellers questionaire.

Project - im not certain that you are mocking, but your tone confuses me somewhat. If you are mocking, please do one

No not realy all building sites should be securely fenced and all risk fo items falling on passerby should be taken care of.A brick, chisel etc faling from height is a serious risk thats whay most reputable sites have lots of signs, scaffolding boards, and netting canvas.

Then builders also have the problem of people trying to access the build to steal, nosey around etc,probably not in the mind of a 3 year old, but still possible for them to wander into the site.

Site being a place where work is being carried on.

Sounds to me like the previous owner intentionally withheld the information. IFAIK, they don't have to volunteer that sort of the information, but they're legally obliged to disclose it if asked. I'm far from an expert, but I'd think they're legally in very hot water there.

obscuration isnt enough to convince me that my amenities arent impacted!

That's fine for planning. Sorry to say. It should be non opening though so the obscurity is not by-passed.

Firstly was your conveyancing a £99.00 special in which case...

Normally a local authority seach will not reveal planning applications on a neighbouring plot - you would need a separate search for this which isn't usual. I am a conveyaning solicitor and I wouldn't spend my time trawling through a local authority web site to check general planning applications unless something put me on notice or a very high value property in an area off patch in which case the price will justify the extra search.

If the usual Property Information Form was supplied by the seller there is a specific enquiry on this point - if the seller answered no to this and had recieved notice then this is a clear misrepresentation - your local authority will keep a record of who notices of the proposed development were sent to.

Did your conveyancers report on title cover the above point on the local search - if not there may be a claim in negligence there.

You should immediately seek the advice of A DIFFERENT SOLICITOR as to the remedies available to you.

I am a litigation solicitor.