[Closed] Leaving teaching to do...

Good luck with it, I can't offer any advice other than that, but think you'll find all the same issues in any other job you go too.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px; background-color: #eeeeee;">as the hours, the pressure and stress and the general expectations</span>

Well, one that pays a comparable amount, anyway.

The only time I had a job that wasn't stressful was when I stacked shelves at Tesco for 3 months.

Mind, the psychological side of it hurt more than the crappy wages..

I always said it was the hardest easy Job I've ever had.

Can't help career wise but reading stuff like this really boils my piss! My daughter has had some really shit teachers in science since year 10 and we are picking up the pieces of that going in to GCSE's this summer. Why the local authorities and schools themselves can't look after the clearly gifted and great teachers is beyond me. I wish your Mrs all the best in the future but it is a crying shame she's leaving.

lunge, I assume she's looked at other schools?

I genuinely understand where she would be coming from, but considering what wrightyson said, above, I wonder if a new school environment couldn't improve things at least a little.

Otherwise, it's really a matter of thinking about something she loves, and starting at the bottom. So, for example, does she love books? Then what about getting an entry-level job in a library? That sort of thing.

Anyway, I wish her the best.

The state of the job market at the moment (and will be forever!) is that you are going to be competing against highly qualified young people who are prepared to work for less money than someone who has been in the game for a while. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I trained as a teacher - but I got out when I realised how much of a trap it is. Once you're in it can be very hard to find other work, but it is possible!</span>

My advice would be:

1. Network, ask friends, family friends of friends for advice. Don't push but its an easy way to show you are competent and have skills above and beyond teaching. Try to speak to people in person if at all possible. This goes a long long way.

2. Training. Go do some training relevant to the profession you want to get into. Almost all paths have courses/outside skills and certifications that you can acquire. Masters degree is quite standard in a lot of places now. Doing these will help with point number 1!

3. Patience is key. Finding a job is a slow process, be prepared for applications where you get no response. Be prepared to type out all the information in your CV into a web form...then attach your CV.

Good luck!

What subject is her degree in?

My wife is also a teacher, and has seen many people leave the job over the years, some of the things they've gone on to do include -

Train driver (more money - less stress)
working in education dept in local authority
education/teaching in a prison
special needs teaching
tutoring (either for specific subjects or the 11+)
working for exam board
various jobs in industry depending on skill set (she's a science teacher, and has seen various people leave and go into industry)
adult training sector

<span style>Good luck with it, I can’t offer any advice other than that, but think you’ll find all the same issues in any other job you go too.</span>

Fair, but she's quite prepared to take a pay drop if it helps with this. I'm not saying the amount she earns is irrelevant but I do OK and we can afford a fair drop if needed.

<span style>Why the local authorities and schools themselves can’t look after the clearly gifted and great teachers is beyond me.</span>

Couldn't agree more. Blowing her trumpet somewhat, she's a brilliant teacher, she cares deeply about what she does and if the role was just teaching she'd not be leaving. But the other stuff around it, the planning, the additional work, is just nuts, she works every weekend, most week nights and she's just had enough.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px;">I assume she’s looked at other schools</span>

Yep, she moved to the current one 2 years ago, its a head and leadership she knows well and likes but the workload and pressure is the same wherever you go sadly.

Discussed this with my wife who is also a teacher (Scotland).

The challenge is finding a role in short order that will pay the same and offer equivalent holidays.

If she likes education still what about some kind of seconded curriculum development role, or getting into research via Master/PhD?

Beyond that, what about Air Traffic control? Money is great.

Is teaching in higher/further education any less stressful? I'm not sure if it compares financially but a friend of mine who was a HOD in a high school has done this and seems much happier.

Unfortunately teachers/schools are under a huge amount of pressure and things don't look like they are going to getting any better any time soon.

I've seen teaching staff leave the profession after their NQT year.

But the other stuff around it, the planning, the additional work, is just nuts, she works every weekend, most week nights and she’s just had enough.

My GF hasn’t even finished her NQT year... Shes already viewing the £9k she spent on her PGCE as an expensive lesson learnt and can’t wait to get back into industry! Fortunately she has many years skills and experience in her field, so she won’t have to start at the bottom. She took a significant pay cut to be a teacher believing that not only would it be a rewarding job but that it would give her a lot more free time. She’s found the exact opposite is true, and all her experienced colleagues have all told her it only gets worse and not better! This seems to be a significant problem right now, perpetuated by the way the government funds schools (all pressure is on the “results”, so they will do ANYTHING to make sure the kids get good grades, deserved or not). It could get to the point that we have a generation of undereducated people in our society before anything is done about it I fear!

As for the OP’s wife. Clearly she’s skilled, the problem is she doesn’t have any relevant experience in anything except teaching. My advice would be to get appointments with a few recruitment consultants to get some advice on where her skills are transferable. That way she will begin to form an idea where to look.

My wife was under pressure at her last school, so moved away into supply, far less stressful, more enjoyable, she ended up in schools which she'd never have thought of looking at, and has now ended back up in another school where she loves the environment.

She was near breakdown  at the point of leaving her last school so it ended up as a great move for her.

She could look at corporate training type posts. Still teaching, but to a different audience.

Teaching kids (and adults) bike riding skills, mainly for use on the roads?

<span style="color: #444444;">My GF hasn’t even finished her NQT year… Shes already viewing the £9k she spent on her PGCE as an expensive lesson learnt and can’t wait to get back into industry! </span>

Same as me.

Also, as previously mentioned by someone above me. Nothing quite as demoralising as having every single person senior to you say - "If I could start it all again there's no way I would be a teacher". Cheers, I'll be off then.

So if you can take a drop in wages what about MrsLunge going part time? No need to look for another profession and extra spare time to reduce stress. MrsG is now part time and enjoys her teaching much more.

"My daughter has had some really shit teachers in science since year 10 and we are picking up the pieces of that going in to GCSE’s this summer"

We have been a teacher down all year in our science department. Last advert no one applied. 10 years ago we'd get 20 plus and interview 6 or 7.

Thanks you as ever people, you are wonderful.

To answer some of the questions:
Her degree is in psychology, this obviously leads to educational psychology as a career but that involves going back to uni for 2 year, something she’s not keen on right now.
No issues on the money front, we’re happy for her to take a fair old hit on this for the sake of her sanity!
She’s talked to a few recruiters, heck, she’s married to one, the challenge is working out what she wants to do and then talking to the right specialist in this. The process of applying for and looking for jobs is fine and I’m all too familiar with this!
Teaching kids to ride bikes is my dream job, not hers!
Part time is an option but there is a fear that she’ll end up doing 5 days work and only getting paid for 3.

Thank you all though for your ideas so far, you are a brilliant bunch!

I did the same 17 years ago. Since then its been supply work with the odd terms contract and a couple of years teaching in a naughty boys home. That was good. No national curriculum. Mixture of old fashioned maths and English and if behaviour appropriate afternoons doing something creative/physical.

Still looking for something else but at 54 it ain't happening.

Has she thought about being a SENCo? - my wife recently switched to this from Science teaching, and has enjoyed the change so far.
Educational Psychologist is a good shout - my wife is convinced this is money for nothing..

I'd echo the advice to look at other schools; there's a huge variation in the amount of crap/paperwork expected.

Lots of teachers deliberately drop to a 0.8 contract. Doing 80% of the job is possible in five days.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px;">We have been a teacher down all year in our science department. Last advert no one applied. 10 years ago we’d get 20 plus and interview 6 or 7.</span>

For some reason, 8 years of below inflation pay rises coupled with worsening conditions is making teaching a less attractive profession. Strange that.

I feel really lucky to have ended up where I am, and in the subject that I'm in. I'm here until retirement, I reckon.

I know quite a few teachers and it's very interesting to see the different approaches. They are all very good at the job, love teaching but bogged down by the rest. The happiest are those that don't care too much. That might sound counter intuitive but they seem to know what has to be done, what needs to be done and what they can get away with. One mate calls himself a lazy teacher and he's the happiest of the lot. I wonder if the kids he teaches would say he's the best of the lot because he isn't stressed out by all the other stuff.

This approach might not be possible for some though, those teachers that have to plan and control every last detail, but if I was teaching it would certainly be my way. Probably wouldn't make you very popular in the staff room though.

Just an observation, take from it what you will...

"you’ll find all the same issues in any other job you go too."

This

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px;">“you’ll find all the same issues in any other job you go too.”</span>

I don't entirely agree. I work in what most would consider to be a stressful job, but it's nothing to what she does, nothing at all.

Re. Not caring as much, this has been suggested but her "UPS" for want of a better phrase is that she delivers outstanding lessons, she's adamant you can't do that without working as she does. She may be wrong, but either way, she wants out.

“you’ll find all the same issues in any other job you go too.”

"This"

Have either of you tried being a teacher in the last few years?
Many leave teaching, havent met any that have come back.

"she delivers outstanding lessons"

Just being consistently good is much better than being a burnt out wreck.

"Just being consistently good is much better than being a burnt out wreck."

Sadly that ship has sailed, hence this thread.

Mrs M left teaching for the reasons people have listed above.  She spent a year doing cover before getting a job with the council as a special needs assessor, helping parents and nurseries cope with special needs kids.  The money is less but there is scope for advancement.  She still gets to work with kids and I have my wife back.

I left teaching in the UK to do the same thing overseas in international schools. Life is much better with regards to work/life balance once you can get your head around the idea that the parents are paying customers. From what I hear from other teaching friends in the independent sector in the UK they also have a similar feel to international schools. The personal rewards are different to working in the state sector but the work/life balance makes up for it.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px; background-color: #eeeeee;">I know quite a few teachers and it’s very interesting to see the different approaches. They are all very good at the job, love teaching but bogged down by the rest. The happiest are those that don’t care too much.</span>

I'm lucky that my/our results are good enough that I/we can ignore a lot of the passing 'fads' that make education such a crap place to be at times. No lesson planning, minimal marking.

I'm leaving research and have applied to do teaching lol

As a parent of children in secondary school and someone who has 2 friends who are teachers (and one family member), the issue of talented teachers either leaving or being signed off sick, is really concerning.

I know a number of us here work in challenging jobs, which occasionally engage us over weekends and sometimes into the evening for no additional reward; and do so over our careers. Is there something however intrinsically wrong with the management and incentivisation of teachers which causes these issues? What can be done to make the lives of some of the most valuable contributors our society better?

What about tutoring?

I realise that is more common at secondary stage but I know of one excellent ex primary teacher who tutors kids who struggle a bit in class.  It does mean you work late afternoon / early evening which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but she can still use her teaching skills, make a real difference to kids and earn cash, with only as much planning type stuff as she chooses to do.  It also usually comes with teacher type holidays which would likely be a culture shock for her going into many other jobs.

if she didn’t want to go it alone then I guess one of the structured schemes like Kumon might be worth exploring.

a friend’s ex-wife was doing a specialist teaching role where she was assigned to a cluster of schools and went in on a peripatetic basis to deliver one specialist area; because it was not the main teacher role she found it much less stressful and “preppy” because she only needed to prep “one” lesson and use it in each of her 8 schools, rather than prep a whole week (that is an exaggeration as she might have yr 2 in one school and yr 5 in another, and then swap in another term). It was a five yr fixed term post and since he ran off with another woman i’ve no idea what happened at the end of the period.

another option could be ofsted inspector type roles, or supporting teacher training schemes.  Both would potentially give some influence over improving the teaching world rather than just leaving it to get worse.

if she goes to private sector employment with a “teaching is too long hours and too stressful” type message I suspect many employers will, rightly or wrongly, see it through surfers eyes above.

The place to be is working for an exam board, you're still in the teacher's pension scheme and the pace, levels of respect, expenses, intellectual challenges are....er...quite different.
The problem is that jobs can be advertised very very briefly on the net so you have to pay attention.
My daughter's in her first year of primary teaching and she's at work from 7 till 6 and that's in a 'good' school. Pure exploitation in my view.

". Is there something however intrinsically wrong with the management and incentivisation of teachers which causes these issues? "

Mostly ofsted and the view that if kids dont want to learn or engage its the teachers fault.

"another option could be ofsted inspector type roles, or supporting teacher training schemes. Both would potentially give some influence over improving the teaching world rather than just leaving it to get worse"

Thats funny!! I think they are both, through gov policy the main drivers of the issuez

Not read all of it but my wife was in exactly the same boat, also about 10 years in. She got a job as a teacher of the deaf, works for the council with a learning support unit embedded within a primary. First year at the moment which is tough as she's doing a distance Uni course with a couple of residential weeks to get qualified - she loves it though. She doesn't answer directly to the school management as not employed by them, she has a handful of kids to look after most days and sufficient time to really support them and see them progress. No marking 30 books of an evening and one day every weekend planning, she's happier than she's been in years.

If your wife actually loves the teaching and interaction with kids but hates the politics and pressure of mainstream then worth considering?

I have just left teaching a few months ago. I was a HoD for a large humanities department, in a non-selective school. The issue I really had was your best was never quite good enough. Despite doubling the results and starting up new course which had great results, I always got shafted with my exam meetings as there were always those one or two kids that could have done better- or to put it another way, I could have done more for them...I couldn't really without not ever sleeping and going round their homes to make sure they revise.

First step was looking at finances and the lowest wage we could get by on. I knew stepping away from a good salary would be tough and that to move careers I'd have to start on a much lower salary. From there I started looking at jobs I had an interest in, luckily for me something came up with a Heritage Trust and local museum.

So now I teach kids at my local museum, which is bloomin' amazing. I have much less money (-500 a month) but I have my evenings and weekends back, I can even go out on a school night without feeling guilty!

If it is affecting health and relationships etc. move on. It really is not worth it in the long run.

I am poorer, but far far happier. This evening I took the pup for a walk, planted some seeds, just about to cook dinner. All things I would not have had the time to do had I been teaching.

Look out for local charities too that do one-to-one tutoring. Generally kids with specific needs that cannot be met at local schools. Not much pay, but still rewarding.

Good luck with it all!

Teaching is one of those jobs I judge by asking if I'd do it for the money and the answer is no. Yep the holidays seem great but in reality most good secondary school teachers will work 50-60 hrs a week as well as probably half the holidays so it's not quite as it's often perceived. I like training, coaching and mentoring but teaching multiple classes a day must be knackering mentally and physically. The Govt seems to consistently move the goalposts, failing to understand the consequences of the changes or the real impacts at ground level. We need to focus on supporting and keeping good teachers. I think they still offer golden handshakes with a limited commitment such that people train, qualify and leave when they realise they can earn more and/or have less pressure in the private sector which says it all really.

I teach teachers instead 😉

If she's been teaching for 10years then salary levels will be difficult. I've built a career now in quite a niche area, for the only organisation nationally that does what we do, and on a salary that's £10k below what I could earn, with less holiday and pension.

That said, I earn 'enough', I work for brilliant organisation and bosses, doing satisfying work that fits well a family lifestyle. I don't want to leave.

Life beyond teaching is not a bed of roses, or necessarily less hours etc. Out of fire into pan
It is less stress, and less repetitive, and you are away from the education moaners - who in my view are one of the real negatives of teaching.

Is a new school or part time an option? Mrs_oab does 3 days a week and earns same as full time (and Scottish teachers earn less as well)

As an example of this week out of teaching by the way
- Monday 6am start to get to a school across Scotland from me.
- Tuesday worked at home with ill kid
- Wednesday at Airport 5:15 for flight to Southampton, Worked till 6pm. (Stayed away)
- Thursday day of training. (Staying away)
- Office day at head office, flight home at 6pm, get home at maybe 8pm.

Back out house at 5:30am on Monday, in another nursery....

My brother left comms engineering to retrain as a teacher, he has been doing it about 10 years now, and he loves it, far prefers it to his former working life.

"you’ll find all the same issues in any other job you go too."

Well no, not 'any' by any stretch of the imagination. The prison service & NHS are losing staff on a massive scale, just like teachers.
My stepdaughter's off from teaching ATM, stressed to bits because she's such a dilligent person & the pressure of doing the job she loves, to her standards in the timescale she has, has become unbearable. She's seriously looking at train driving (like her brother) or doing one to one teaching.
Meanwhile an ex prison officer (me) is doing a very stress free job. (if you can call driving a minibus round Harrogate at rush hours 'stress free')

Does she have a basic grasp of online forum software?

I'm sure there's a huge opening for that kind of work..

Mrs g would love to leave teaching.. as op is driven to give 110 percent  currently supervising teacher training students which she enjoys and could see a future in that. I got out a few years ago after 14 yrs in the same school gone back to construction which I left to go into reaching have met a few lads I used to teach on my sites  a bit weird🤔 one up to his elbows unblocking foul manhole was always in the shit at school now made a career of it!!  Is there any way of going back to a previous career? She must look after herself. Hope all goes well

https://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/politics-career-how-to

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/dec/30/student-media-job-journalism

'Qualities such as energy, enthusiasm, flair, imagination, analytical skills, intellectual curiosity and "a reluctance to accept things at face value,,..'

https://www.indeed.co.uk/viewjob?jk=add7891564cc8512&q=Psychology+food&tk=1c4ok38al9ohgdur&from=web&advn=195754629082075&sjdu=ToXxxVNNOhwqz00w1PC9SbJ8rgDIaiUisUvMMpA4oL6A1VjpfXKG_VkOtdfSVpCt&acatk=1c4ok4psc9tl4fot&pub=4a1b367933fd867b19b072952f68dceb

I was a teacher for 10 years and felt that it was time to leave. This was 4 years ago and I've never regretted the decision.

I was however quite fortunate in that my degree (Chemical Engineering) and a few connections gave me an opportunity to move to a new challenging technical role.

I really enjoyed the teaching aspect of education.

The treadmill of changes in expectations, shifting demands, changing policies, faddy schemes that seemed to be introduced each year to improve learning, etc. were not so enjoyable.

I was observed 7 times in 10 years by OfSted (not in a failing school or special measures - just frequently inspected) and in that time I received quality constructive feedback that could improve my teaching once. From an HMI that was of the old inspection system and had not changed his practises. He offered advice and then came back the next day to see if my implementation of the advice would be effective. He was right. This is the only positive interaction I had with OfStEd in 10 years. They are a large part of the problem when they really shouldn't be. They are used as a blunt instrument of judgement instead of a service of improvement - the way HMI used to work.

Anyway, I digress. Teaching is being steadily eroded as a valued profession (in the state sector) and it is a crying shame.

It is worth considering part time but you are right, it tends to mean you are working normal hours rather than long hours and only getting paid for the 3 days contact time.

Has she got contacts that she could gently nudge for opportunities whilst perhaps working cover and picking up some industry relevant PD training?

I guess what my rambling nonsense above meant to say is:

Go for it, there is life outside of teaching - and it can be great!

My wife and I are primary teachers.  We moved to the Middle East a few years ago and haven't looked back.

- Less stress, the school day is 7:30am-2pm, but you have loads of specialists taking lessons (music, PE, languages, local studies, swimming) and so you can get most things done before the end of the school day.  No Ofsted.

- The children.  The kids are generally expat children and are fantastic.  Very few behaviour issues and plenty of motivation

- Money.  Goes without saying when your accommodation and bills are paid for you, and you pay no tax, that it works financially.

- Sunshine.  It's the middle of winter here and it's sunny and 26 DegC outside.  Yes, the summers get hot, but you'll spend that time travelling back to the UK, on a beach in India, trekking the himalayas or, what we did, house sitting in Europe for 9 weeks last summer.

I wouldn't teach in the UK.

I quit teaching and head for Canary Wharf a couple of years ago.

I have a physics degree so stats was part of my unit anyway and critical analytics problem thinking skills lol.

My masters was mainly science so I did an MBA while working for HSBC.

I went back to teaching for a while but realised how it was so £hit.

The money was crap and 60+ hour weeks only to rehabilitate during holidays and then planning the year?

Went back into finance and it was ok then management switch and I was the last original staff member to be pushed out.  I quit while I was job interviews and start next week!

I would rather work, enjoy it and have a work life balance than teach 60hrs and have stupid kids who can’t write or count but accountable if they do not have A grades lol.

Tell her to go back to agencies in finance and while working, do an MBA in the evening.

It’ll be a doddle and she’ll earn 2-3 times more than a teacher.

F’ the education and schools and the lazy kids.  Hello life.