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I'm laying some LVT in a small bathroom soon. It's this stuff.
It's going in a 4.5m2 upstairs bathroom in an old cottage. Slight bounce to the floors but not loads. Floorboards are ok but I don't want to screw up the install.
I've been assured by the salesman that it can go straight down, as it has a built in 1.5mm underlay backing, and apparently doesn't expand/contract, but I don't usually trust a word a salesman says.
Do I just listen to him and put it straight on the boards, or would I benefit from putting down ply to ensure an even surface, an underlay to reduce noise, or both? I don't want to build the floor up too much, and there's about 10mm gap under the skirting to slide under. So if I used the ply I'd have to do something about neatening the edges as it would bring the LVT above that level
Any advice from pros/DIYers would be appreciated!
No experience of these, but could you use self-levelling compound, like for lino?
If it's a bathroom and you put ply down, are you removing the toilet or fitting round it? If you remove the toilet then a layer of ply plus the flooring might raise the toilet too much so the coupling isn't easily refitted?
According to sales guy I don't need self leveling. Apparently....
I'm removing all the fixtures and fittings, and the toilet is fitted with a dog leg outlet and hasn't yet been screwed down, so all's o for that side of things 🙂
I fitted this in my kitchen/utility room and have had one tile joint split after a couple of months because the floor wasn't dead level just where that joint is.
Really bugs me, I notice it every time I walk in the kitchen, should have put down self leveling first.
Any advice from pros/DIYers would be appreciated!
Allow double the time you think - bathrooms are the worst room to fit this sort of stuff! I completely lost my shit in frustration the last time I did one!
If your floorboards are smooth and flat I'd not worry about a bit of bounce. Some ply won't get rid of that.
Personally I'd pop something like this down - will just even out those slight highs and lows...
https://www.quick-step.co.uk/en-gb/accessories/qsudlbp15_basic-plus-15-m2
I've always used QuickStep stuff to and it's been bob-on. If you've not ordered that already, it's cheaper too. I'm putting this down in my utility next weekend...
https://www.quick-step.co.uk/en-gb/laminate/muse/mus5493_grey-slate
I fitted this in my kitchen/utility room and have had one tile joint split after a couple of months because the floor wasn’t dead level just where that joint is.
Just looked the the spec for that flooring and they seem to be individual tiles. The chap at the shop I spoke too said the Quickstep stuff used to be like that too, but they experienced cracking on joints. Especially when laid like tiles, rather than brick pattern.
They QuickStep ones are now longer lengths (2 'tiles' per board) so the load is spread over a bigger area per board.
If it's floating stuff, it's like I just laid in my bathroom. There was a rubberised backing on mine, no underlay required, but it went down onto 18mm ply on top of floorboards.
So you've added an inch to the height of your bathroom floor? Seems a big step up.
I'd definitely use self-levelling compound first, i've just done the same and it is easy to use, you don't want any "bounce" or movement in them, and especially in a bathroom, any play or cracks between the laminate will allow water in. Self-levelling compound will also be a thinner layer probably, rather that raising floor up with plywood, which again would be horrible if it got damp.
Do not use underlay! We made that costly mistake in our kitchen. Underlay caused it to flex and compress too much. It needs to be laid on something solid.
The surface must be flat and level, either plywood over floorboards or self levelling compound.
I’d be looking up the manufacturers installation guide if I were you. I’d look but I’m supposed to be working…
I’d be looking up the manufacturers installation guide if I were you. I’d look but I’m supposed to be working…
^^^ That - I've always used an underlay and had no issues with it.
This is from QuickStep's guide...
[i]First install the underlay, per width and gradually as you progress. It is [b]vital[/b] that you use underlays to smooth any unevenness in the base
floor. The specially designed Quick-Step underlays have a damp-proof, insulating, noise-reducing and leveling function. The smooth top
surface makes installing the laminate panels easier and ensures ample expansion afterwards. You can find more information about
Quick-Step underlays and how to install them on the underlay packaging or at your dealer.[/i]
I had a similar premium branded click together LVT put down several years ago. The bare chipboard floor was flat level and smooth (90’s house built by a good builder) and the lvt was impressively heavy and seemed durable. Looked decent when it was down
Within a year the odd joint started failing. Nowhere particularly noticeable so I was disappointed but not heartbroken.
Shortly after that it started to go everywhere. We ended up ripping most of it up and replacing with engineered oak which I should have done in the first place. The few bits that remain are absolutely knackered and will be replaced this year.
Ultimately there’s well over a hundred kilos of the stuff going to landfill after a very short useful life. Lesson learned
I know folk who’ve had proper glue down lvt for years and been happy with it, but click together stuff - never again.
Guy who fitted it says he stopped doing it due to number of failures too - he’s a well respected guy locally so fairly confident it wasn’t a skill issue on his part
For a cloakroom, a bit of ply and decent Lino for the win
I had a room done with karndean lvt 'tiles' quite large wood core stuff, there's definitely some bounce where there was a noticeable drop in the floor level, but so far all the joints seem to be coping and it's in a low traffic area so not too bad, still wish the guy who laid it had levelled that area a bit before though.
We use the room as an office and the tiles have stood up well to a heavy chair and a sofa bed being dragged around in there.
Our installers put 4mm ply over some old floorboards which butted up to a new screed floor (which they used self levelling compound for), seems fine so far. I think you just need a relatively smooth surface assuming the floor is otherwise good.
Not DIY'd it but just had as pro fit 50sqm of it in a new extension/existing utility and kitchen. For the new stuff which had a concrete floor, there was a screed put down for it. For the utility which was in effect a suspended chipboard floor, it was covered in ply to create a dead level surface before the LVT went down straight onto it.
All well and good hearing others experience, but what matters is the manufacturers guidance for the specific flooring you’re purchasing.
I’d look but I’m supposed to be working…
I got bored of work quickly. Here’s the guide for the flooring you linked to
The salesman was lying. You’ll need a 1/4” expansion gap (admittedly that’s quite small). Doesn’t appear to need underlay. I’d personally prefer a 12mm ply layer over floorboards to guarantee good results - which is the first bullet point in the acceptable subfloors in the IG.
Just re-read your OP. I’d rip out the skirting. Lay ply. Lay floor. Fit new skirting. Fit new door threshold to bridge any unevenness.
My experience with LVT is almost identical to albeit a little earlier in the lifecycle of failure. Never again with the LVT!
We had an extension done just over two years ago and had over 50 sqm of the stuff put in an open kitchen/living/dining area and into the adjoining hallway. All of the joints in the high traffic areas are failing and the tabs that click it together have snapped in multiple places. In other places it is delaminating at the joints and some bits have actually snapped off showing the white underneath on a grey floor! The whole area was ply'd on top of boards to get it nice and flat and it was installed per the manufacturers instructions.
I'm currently in discussions with the flooring place where we bought it (who no longer sell click LVT.. says it all) and they have contacted the manufacturer who are sending an independent assessor to my house to look at it. The whole situation is a mess because we're going to have to dismantle half the kitchen to replace the flooring on top of the usual skirting coming off etc. It's going to cost thousands to put right and per the above a load of LVT is going to end up in landfill.
One consideration in a bathroom is how will you achieve the floating bit? Will it not be siliconed where it meets bath panels, tiles, etc. round the edge?
EDIT: Ignore last bit, just read about the skirting.
Thanks everyone, really appreciate all the points! As much as I'd love to pull the skirting, ply, and then slip underneath, that's unfortunately not possible, as the board is bonded to the walls, packed out slightly, and there's paneling above it! So would require some pretty major work.
There's inconsistency between the salesman, the box, the online documentation, and the website!
It would seem most logical to me to plane off high spots, pack major low ones, ply over the top, and then lay the 'planks' on top but that leaves an expansion gap issue, and I absolutely hate beading at the edge of floors!
The LVT is 8mm, and I've only got about 10mm gap below the skirting.
We'll be doing ours later this year and I'm just going with the beading. It's not like I ever look at it closely.
Not sure why everyone is having so much trouble with LVT.
4 rooms in our old house had it - the oldest being 10+ years old in a high traffic conservatory (so lots of temp variation).
Bathroom in the house we moved into in 2022 has it and by the previous owners timelines that has been down 6+ years and showing no signs of any issues.
Definitely 4-6mm ply nailed down at 100mm centres.
So you’ve added an inch to the height of your bathroom floor? Seems a big step up.
Not really, hall carpet and underlay combined are almost up to the same level as 18mm ply and 5mm click flooring.
Fitted moduleo layred lvt about a year ago. It was highly recommended by a carpet fitter that I used to work for. Underlay is integral and no need to do anything to the floor unless it's obviously miles out. Also hardly any expansion so it can be fitted within a couple of mm from the skirtings and clear siliconed.
Had some in the bathroom at my old place, was there when I moved in and was perfect for 10 years.
I'm just putting nice lino in my new place though. It comes in a tile effect if needed.