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STW is probably the wrong forum to ask this question, but I’m mindful STW has never let me down. And there was the fast estate thread a while back, so maybe this is the place to ask.
Had a go in a new defender last year on the off road course and absolutely loved it and I’m now in a position to buy one. I’ve read the stories about the early ones etc, and before some smart Alec comes along “ it’s a landrover, it’ll break, blah blah blah”. But I’ve had a few LR’s over the years and I’ve not had anything more than minor niggles (Apple autocorrected this to Nigel’s 🙂 )
We’ve had more car expense with BMW, VW, Toyota (how dare I) and Renault than with the LR’s, esp damn BMW.
anyway anyone here at STW got one, had one and ok sharing how it went ?
otherwise it’s a Volvo xc90, or Porsche cayenne.
We have a 1995 Defender and if you're not mechanically minded/don't enjoy spannering then don't bother unless you're happy to spend an absolute fortune in garage labour as there is always something needing doing.
He means the new ones
It’s probably best not to say what i think
No I’ll say something more general
Unless you’re really rich your not taking any new off roader off road. The risk of damage is just too high.
Are you talking about buying one of the new ones or an older one?
Although the Discovery i had was a heap of ****, never had any real problems with the Series 3 or Defenders.
Still got a SWB 1993 Defender.
Like Ampthill - Not sure id buy one of the new ones, too 'chelsea tractor' and not agricultural enough for my liking.
Bet it would cost a fortune to fix it if you accidentally bent it/dented it offroading.
Likely the furthest most will get off road will be driving into the local park for the village fete........
Did a job for a guy who ran a Land Rover garage.
Never buy one he said
Had a go in a new defender last year on the off road course and absolutely loved it and I’m now in a position to buy one.
Good for you
I could express what I think of the guy that drives down our road every morning in his, no doubt on his way to some serious off-road graft for the day. He does an amazing job of cleaning it on a daily basis.
Apparently the headlight clusters are very useful in weed farms, something about low power use and high output? Bloke at my work found that out to the tune of £25k worth of damage as scrotes gently removed his with angle grinders
My 1990 Defender is still going strong((ish), the beauty is that I can service it myself. If your intended purchase lasts as long and you start studying electronics then there’s no reason that you’ll be disappointed with a new one. It’s even got cameras underneath so you can see what you’ve just run over!
I read the headlight cluster thing for was also a problem for Porsche cayennne owners ?
id imagine there’s other car models affected too
Avoid the 90, the boot space is ridiculously small, at least rear seats easy to remove. Facelift due soon I believe.
Have access to both new 90 and old (L reg), new one is fab and is on my dream car list ( I don’t need rear seats and would go for a commercial)
Make sure you spec the external sandwich box and snorkel just in case.
Mate had one as a courtesy car whilst his RR Sport was in the garage, said was nice but huge, worth considering if your roads are tight.
Personally I can’t get over the fact that there’s loads round out way (SW London) and they’re mostly driven by throbbers.
Nothing to add on the new Defender but reading up on the headlight theft thing, I had no idea this was even a thing but came across this shocker:
that ^^^ is an insane amount of damage to that Taycan to get some lights!
don’t forget to complete the look
don’t forget to complete the look
The people I’ve seen driving them definitely look like they’ve got a wardrobe full of Thrudark tactical stealth clothing
Start saving for a new engine too, because by the time it's out of warranty, the Ingenium thing will eat itself.
Not quite the same car but a friend recently pranged a door on his I-Pace (so same company) on a bollard in a supermarket carpark. Over 5 grand to sort it out!
I definitely wouldn't be taking a new Defender off road at that price
Not worth the risk !!
As an actual (newish) Land Rover owner, as opposed to the judgemental ones that have read the bad reviews, or can't afford one, or judge you for killing the planet....
Disco 4 with the SDV6 engine - on 150k with barely any issues (bought on 30k), but I am fully aware that the crank COULD snap at any given moment
Had two (Disco 5's) with the 3l (D300) Ingenium engine. The 3l Ingenium is a fabulous engine - it's the 2l that has all the problems. First one I put 32k on from new with zero issues, current one I bought with 30k on the clock and it's now at 40k - zero issues
As for the Defender - got a mate who switched from an older (2018?) full fat Range Rover to a new Defender a year or so ago and wasn't impressed, but that was purely based on a place to sit and drive, not off road capabilities.
I've looked at Defenders myself and based on similar price points you get a lot more for your money with a Disco. Nicer place to sit - probably half way between a Defender and a Range, but then things like coils v air suspension. A Defender is what the Disco 5 should have looked like, but it's compromised unless you spend ££££
As for off road capabilities, I doubt there's much between them, but you can pay for extra tricks and gizmos that you might get on one spec level, but not on another
My neighbours have one with the boxes. Never let him down and he loves it. But both his kids rated my six year old Macan much more highly when I pulled up in it the first time! As did his wife.
Buy the Porsche if you can. 15 year approved main dealer warranty, which has paid for itself already for the two years I’ve had it. And you get a nice key.
This was ours, I rebuilt it twice and drove to the south of Morocco and all over Europe in it. I did the Solihull factory tour and I was the proudest husband ever when my wife got the tour question correct that the rufty tufty blokes didnt.
We used to cook on the engine with ours. MrsRNP was going to do the Manifold cookbook to fund us. Chicken breast wrapped in Parma ham was motorway at 60mph for 30 to 40miles. Prawns were from our house to Hebden Bridge, bacon, braising steak. All wrapped in two layers of tin foil. Puncture the lid of tins and wire them in place......
And then the spy shots of new Defender started to be released..........and the manifold was covered in plastic.
I hope you enjoy your new Defender but when you can't arrive at your mates with the smell of broiled bacon wafting from your engine bay then blame Landrover and buy yourself a £500 955 Cayenne with its huge red hot exposed exhaust manifold......
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Can you do this with the new Defender? No, it's dead to me.
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My neighbours have one with the boxes
what do they use them for? I am genuinely curious but have yet to find anyone with them to ask.
@RustyNissanPrairie I must try the cooking, previous owner fitted a glovebox right over the heater duct so it keeps food warm, or dries gloves…
You need an engine with large exposed manifolds, normally aspirated engines are best, turbo Landrover engines aren't brilliant as the turbo takes up valuable cooking space. Our engine was the old original 2.5NA engine but I rebuilt it with a Turners gas flowed head and new short block engine, bigger injector's and a tweaked pump. It was a grunty unstressed engine that served us well and that MrsRNP used to love cooking on.
Choose naturally moist foods or use plenty of oil/butter/water. Wrap in two layers of foil with the edges well crimped so you don't lose moisture. Distances are trial and error. Baked beans etc can be wired into place.
We used to pull into the truck spaces at services with truckers quizzically looking on as a woman tinkered under the bonnet until she pulled out tinfoil parcels that we prepared on the wingtops and ate.
Loved that vehicle, hated what Landrover branding threw away, I sold it in disgust and at the height of value's and have never and will never Google it's registration to see how many miles it's done since.
No personal experience but modern JLR products are best avoided, accordingly to almost everyone other than those trying to sell them.
Chap at work sold his Jag to buy an Alfa as he wanted something more reliable...
Not relevant to this but I went to the Falkland Islands earlier this year. Nearly every car there is old style Defender, out of off road necessity and local repairability. Most gardens have a donor Defender parked ready to shed its parts. The only dealership is Land Rover and it is the only make of car where standard parts are available without a 4 - 12 week delivery.
Whilst there we met the guy with the smartest business model ever. He was the broker guy who connected the local drivers with cruise ship tourists who want to go to Volunteer Point to see the big penguin colony. I did the trip and it was a 4 hour round trip of genuinely tough off road driving. Seriously off road. Anyway, this guy arranged for dozens of local drivers to do hundreds of trips per year. Like most islanders, he had a second job. When he wasn't organising off road tours, he ran the main car workshop repairing the knackered Land Rovers!
Anyway, you are not asking about old Defenders, but new ones. Not sure where you live but you might want to be aware of these guys https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/04/edinburgh-activists-tyre-extinguishers-target-suvs-in-solidarity-with-spains-flood-victims. They are pretty active in Edinburgh and if you plan to use your car in a city I think it is a consideration.
My wife had a new style Disco, without doubt the most unreliable car we have ever owned. Had about 5 warranty visits to workshop before we sold it after 12 months of ownership. From memory, speakers failed, window opened then failed to shut, engine warning light x2 and, I think, an ABS fault. 12 moths and about 8k of motoring. I recently sold a Hyundai Santa Fe which was more comfortable in every respect, much cheaper and much higher spec. In 5 years and about 60k of driving the only non scheduled service items were replacing one headlight bulb and a new plastic lens cover for the reverse camera.
what do they use them for?
posing, I think.
Get it!
I’m waiting for the 70mile range plugin hybrid version. P560e I think.
Chassis mods required so will be on the facelift.
two customers very happy with the Sport and Full fat offering with the same power source. Quicker than SVR fwiw!?
Seeing the pic of that Cayenne up there ^^…
The latest version is a hell of an off-road vehicle. Took one round the off road course at Porsche Silverstone , but I wouldn’t be doing the same in a £100k + vehicle ?
eeing the pic of that Cayenne up there ^^…
The latest version is a hell of an off-road vehicle.
I’ll have to keep a look out. But don’t they all come with wide low profile road tyres?
The latest version is a hell of an off-road vehicle. Took one round the off road course at Porsche Silverstone , but I wouldn’t be doing the same in a £100k + vehicle ?
I’ve not done one of these off road course but expect them to be designed to give maximum entertainment with the minimum possibility of damage to the vehicle.
In real world use YMMV , these tin can panels with expensive paint aren’t exactly going to take a tumble and come out unscathed 🙂
I reckon driving one down a tight lane badly with hidden drystone and thorns would easily give some pricey battle scars let alone a whoopsie into some ditch.
I get being an owner/driver/mechanic but if your going to take it back to the main dealer every time you roll it 🙂
Saying that I’d still go for a new defender if that’s what’s taking your fancy, as long as you’ve got the warranty and aren’t depending on it for your life what risk do you have other than having to pay for it/lease it 🙂
I do like that Australian YouTuber you says he’s never not liked anything land rover came out with but would never recommend buying one due to how bad they treated customers and the unreliability of the product.
revs1972Free Member
Seeing the pic of that Cayenne up there ^^…The latest version is a hell of an off-road vehicle. Took one round the off road course at Porsche Silverstone , but I wouldn’t be doing the same in a £100k + vehicle ?
The early ones like mine are even more capable, they are permanent 4wd, high and low range transfer box with automatic torque control front to rear and locking centre diff. Hill start and very good traction control. Will tow 3.5t.
They could be specced with an off-road option which gave hydraulic operated anti roll disconnects, locking rear differential and substantial underbody protection.
Mine does what my Defender did but does it quicker and in more comfort. There is a big Cayenne modifying scene in America where they are getting used on hardcore 4wd trails.
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Back to the OP after I derailed the discussion.
If I was wanting a 'proper' 4x4 - I'd have my name down for the new Toyota Land cruiser, unfortunately they aren't coming to the UK in poverty/utility spec levels so I'd probably buy the previous shape in the commercial variant they did with steel wheels.
I'd also have a look at Ineos Grenadier if I wanted more off-road / old school 4x4 as I think they got a lot of things right with this vehicle and it's more of a successor to the original Defender.
But the reality is that you can't do much off-roading in the UK, China has tarmac'd the rest of the world and a capable SUV can do what an old school 4x4 could do but in more comfort and better economy.
New Defender is good in that it rides well on road (unlike Grenadier and LC) as it's an SUV+ and the interiors are good.
from what I remember the rear seats don't fold properly in any of the new defenders, they stick up a bunch when lowered, so that's one thing to look out for
the 90 looks the nicest but obviously impractical, the 130 is bigger inside, but looks very wrong on the outside.
Oooh for off-road duties your typical STW’er would be looking for something practical like an Ariel Nomad ?
I'd go for a mountain bike. This thread reminds me of something:
So the experience of several friends of recent Land Rovers and Range Rovers could kindly be described as woeful. One had a three year old Evoque. The gear box tore itself apart up. It was warranty replaced. The replacement did the same on the second drive after it was replaced. Another in their 5 year old Discovery Sport had the engine tear itself apart on a dual carriageway bringing it to a very noisy and sudden stop. There followed some difficult discussions with their dealer who initially wanted over twelve grand to replace it. That was a battle. Earlier this year, the turbo died as did the DPF. Not warrantied so many thousands of pounds. My roofer has a four year old Discovery that has spent over two years in a dealer compound after the engine blew up. JLR refused to warranty. In addition, the dealer they bought it from falsified the service book. He is still paying off the finance for the privilege of a car that does not work and he cannot access. It is now in the hands of his lawyer who has a lot of clients in exactly the same position. Another had the engine of his Discovery tear itself apart putting a massive dent in his bonnet. There have also been ten JLR cars stolen in my street in the space of a year last year.
This is obviously not a statistically valid sample base but Which? Magazine described their reliability as woeful. Their customer service in the experience of friends has been dire. As such, I would think very carefully before parting with your cash. I would suggest that you do some research into the reliability issues before deciding if that is a risk you are willing to take.
Hope this helps?
Cheers
Sanny
The saddle bags look ideal for a box of washing powder or a bumper box of rice krispies
I suppose in the lakes farms where the 4wd and towing is needed they have their place. In my village I see a load of them at school time doing pickup duties, idling stationary, mother on phone. Some have the side boxes and snorkels, some pretty awful colours too.
Each to their own but not for me.
The saddle bags look ideal for a box of washing powder or a bumper box of rice krispies
As a fan of the animated cars films, I can’t look at one with the side boxes without thinking it looks like it’s wearing headphones
Had 2 jlr vehicles - never again. Always on the garage with repairs to various things. Have a mitsubishi and it's been back to the garage once in 4 yes (loose window behind door card)
Still at least the jlr dealerships have great coffee and they fully valet your car each time they take it in. I didn't wash either of the 2 jlr cars once in 5 yrs
Still at least the jlr dealerships have great coffee and they fully valet your car each time they take it in. I didn’t wash either of the 2 jlr cars once in 5 yrs
If it gets cleaned every time it goes into the dealer they’ll have pressure-washed it back to bare rust by the time the warranty is up.
Mostly seem to be bought as a status symbol, driven aggressively by mums on the school run ferrying Tarquin to polo practice. Don’t forget to attach a BO55 number plate as well…
I get driven in one quite regularly. It's a V8, the new Defender.
From a passenger's point of view, it's quite comfortable in the front seat. Quiet enough to chat at motorway speeds and a nice stereo that sounds good at a volume where you can talk about the music without shouting.
The owner can afford to change his cars on a regular basis (and his daily drivers prior to getting this car were mostly Lamborghinis - Aventador, Huracans Uruss (Urii?)) This one is now over 3 years old - unheard of for him but he loves it and has no desire to change. I'm assuming his muttering about booking a test drive in a Purosangue yesterday is just a tyre kicking exercise.
I actually asked him about reliability last week. His family own another two, a Velar hybrid and Evoque. None have given any trouble.
The only downside is the spare wheel on the back door which means that standard tow bar bike racks don't fit - or if they do, you can't fit many bikes on. The Thule rack that does fit weighs a ton and costs a fortune. But we did manage to fit 3 bikes on when we went to BPW.
We had a Discovery Sport for 4 years from new. It was lovely and never put a foot wrong.
Not even oil dilution ? I had one and it was plagued with it - 2 year servicing (the promise) was more like oil change every 8 months
They make the grenadier look good
I live completely surrounded by farms and crofts. There's one defender, a swb of the type we all love. I only ever see it off road although it is road legal, it is regularly in the fields around my gaff and on our track, checking livestock or repairing fences
Every other farm 4x4 around here is a Hilux style pick up of one type or another, bar none.
Every other farm 4×4 around here is a Hilux style pick up of one type or another, bar none.
They’re going through with the BIK changes on the dual cab pickups too next year , so might see a few less of them as well
I had a defender 110 at work when it was launched. I put it on the lifts and laughed; the underbody is chaos. I remember thinking that it must be a nightmare to service and repair. It was nice to drive on the local roads and test track.
I would happily rent one, but never buy. I would happily buy or rent a land cruiser.
they’ve got a wardrobe full of Thrudark tactical stealth clothing
LOL.... Could have spent more cash on their 4by's rather than 900 quid on a softshell.
Does it have to be a Landy? I mean is it 4 wheel driving you like? Have you considered anything other than a Landy??
Mate of mine's currently pondering his options following a £15,000 quote (from the local indy garage, not main dealer) to replace the seized Ingenium engine on his 5 year old, 55,000 Ingenium. Unsure what model but suspect it's the 2l one that another friend of mine had the exact same issue with.
Bring me the longest barge pole you have and then extend it please.
My mate has two, a 70 year old one and a 30 year old. Needless to say they are the proper ones. He does his own spannering and does 4x4 courses in them.
My brother in law restores original defenders. Has done everything down to a Series 2. Loves them with a passion. His daily drive is a Landcruiser. My stepfather has three Jaguars. Including a Mk2. After scratching the Range Rover itch, watching the engine fail and waiting two years without progress, his daily dog car is a Kia Sportage. Buy the Porsche!
I come from a farming area, we had a volvo and a tractor.
Richer folks than us had range rovers or discos. Everyone else had mitsubishi pick ups (other japanese brands are available)
OP, have you heard of the climate crisis?
OP, have you heard of the climate crisis?
This. There are many aspect of our lives that can be quite challenging to change when trying to reduce our climate impacts. But unless you need a big 4x4 for farm, forestry or site work, surely not buying a big SUV is one decision that is easy to make.
I'm a lifelong Land Rover fanatic (i've had a series 2a, series 3, two 3 door Range rovers, a 200TDI ninety, a 300TDI 110, a v8 Disco 2, two 200TDI Discos, a 300TDI Disco and probably some more i've forgotten!) If you keep up on the maintenance then they are very reliable and easy to live with ( I put 140 thousand miles on my 300 TDI Discovery and then sold it to a friend who put another 110 thousand on it. Other than consumables all it ever had go wrong was the power steering pump and that was about £60 for a new one). That being said you couldn't give me a new one! A friends Father got one when they first came out (he was on a waiting list ever since they were announced) and eventually got so sick of it that Land Rover had to have it back and refund his money.
The saddle bags look ideal for a box of washing powder or a bumper box of rice krispies
I always assumed they were just a lightweight foam wrapped in fibreglass and didn't function other than to confirm the fact a walloper was driving it?
What kind of driving do you do OP, that the Defender sounds like the car for you?
And 5 or 3 door?
Genuine question.
They only want an SUV, it’s not like they are planning to get a dog ffs
I know from another thread that you have had a few Land Rovers in your time, so I'm not surprised that comment touched a nerve. The trouble though, is that all these individual choices do start to add up. And to @intheborders question, if this is somehow necessary because your work requires it or something then fine but personally I don't think posing around town really justifies it, which is what I see a lot of where I live.
I know from another thread that you have had a few Land Rovers in your time, so I’m not surprised that comment touched a nerve
Um... As a climate change believer and hand wringing lefty.
I can only applaud STR's excellent cross thread humour.
Um… As a climate change believer and hand wringing lefty.
I can only applaud STR’s excellent cross thread humour.
Hah well in which case it all went right over my head and I can only apologise!
On the subject of the new defenders, what's with the pointless 'widdle wadder' and sandwich boxes I see on the sides? Is it just to look more utilitarian? They really don't. They look like Barbie accessories.
Who is STR?
Artist formally known as...
I have to admit that I quite like the look of the new Defender. I'd never buy one in a million years, though, as I don't need a huge vehicle with fuel consumption figures around 30mpg at the very best, with around town figures sub-20mpg combined with dreadful reliability. And, as already said above, Wallopers drive them.
@joshvegas - how much I care about the environment has increased over the years so there's definitely things I've done in the past I wouldn't do anymore and if you keep on stalking my life, you'll see that. I certainly care about it more now than when I owned the Porsche, and wouldn't do that again. Unfortunately, I'm bound to fly to the USA because my wife's American and that's where her parents are. And until the train reaches Torridon, there's not much that can be done to get there without driving.
We live in a society that requires people to travel places, but doesn't provide them with a carbon neutral public transport to do that. In the meantime, driving is a necessity. I catch a train or the bus to ride my bike where I can (if I'm not riding from the doorstep), and car share if there's no other option. My carbon footprint for getting to bike rides this year is less than a 5th of the annual carbon footprint of a dog, and bike riding comes with benefits that help everyone like improved fitness. And I've offset every gram of carbon my entire life has contributed to the atmosphere this year anyway.
Dog ownership is entirely optional (you don't HAVE to buy a dog, but regardless of what you're likely to respond to this, you do HAVE to see your family), and has a massive environmental impact that you don't seem willing to face up to, and it doesn't really have any upsides for society. Just like SUV owners aren't willing to face up to their responsibilities and not own an SUV (although there are, in the society we live in, people who do HAVE to own an SUV, like STR, so unlike dogs occassionally they're essential).
...you could have married a local lass!
And the massive upside of owning a dog is improved mental health and the fitness of the owners. Responsible owners will walk their dog two or three times a day. It's also social as I chat to many people on my dog walks.
you do HAVE to see your family
...you really don't - and not seeing half of my family again improves my mental health! 🙂
Does mental health outweigh the importance of the climate crisis?
I'll give you a clue. It doesn't.