[Closed] Landrover Defender

And lastly, why are they so damn expensive?!

Because people pay the prices - you being a good example of that.

I have a love hate relationship with defenders, I drive them a lot and love them but wouldn't own one.

I certainly wouldn't put kids in one though. No air bags, no impact protection, no rollover cage in standard build, no pedestrian safety, few comforts. One of the reasons they stopped producing them is that they do not meet modern safety standards. For kids they will be noisy, small, unsafe, bad for environment, no USB chargers in back.

I still think they are ace though.

There's a reason there's such a big aftermarket for Land Rover spares!

And you won't get forward facing rear seats in a 90 you need a 110 for that.

What i want is reliable.

Funny 🙂

I had one as a works car on a large road construction project. Perfect for driving around muddy sites. The noise was loud inside, especially on motorways. It was 3 years old when I got it. It broke down 5 times in the 6 months I had it. I was glad when they gave it to another on the job and I got a Nissan Navarra - a much nicer place to be sat in.
Don´t spend your full budget if you buy one as you will need a hire car often while your pride and joy sits in a Landrover Dealer getting fixed.

And you won’t get forward facing rear seats in a 90 you need a 110 for that.

But ive seen 90s with seats that fold up in the rear and when they drop down theyre forward facing?

Hmmm, reliability comments are ominous. Id hoped they would be pretty good given its a well established diesel engine and on the whole theyre pretty simple, relatively speaking.

Reliable is a misnomer.

Are you going to spanner it your self.

Are you going to be confident keeping an eye on developing issues.....

If you want modern lease car levels of reliability. Forget it *

If you want an iconic vehicle and are willing to live with its pitfalls then perhaps keep looking.....

Had mine 10 years. It's never failed to get me home in that time.....but it's been far from perfect. - but then over 10 year life span of any other vehicle I've had -neither have they. Mines 35 years old now but has had a substantial rebuild in my ownership

*As an owner enthusiast.

"reliable" look for something else then.

They are great if you like working on them in your spare time, if you want something for transport get something else, anything.

They don't go, they don't stop. don't turn, can't even really sit in them without hanging out the door.

They're the T5 in the trail centre car park, but of a different scene, if that makes sense?
Are they great? Yes, kinda. They're good off road but horrible on road. They are tiring on long journeys down to the lack of soundproofing and the basically fixed seats and steering column. I wouldn't entertain one for even a moment for daily duties for the money they fetch.
Interestingly (or not, I guess) the Defender chassis was derived from the original Range Rover chassis. They developed the Range Rover chassis, and ended up using it under the first two generations of Discovery as well. Both of which are better bets. A late Range Rover Classic is a genuine joy to drive. A Disco is comfortable and competent, but has annoying wiper stalks.
But for your money? I'd be buying a G-Wagen. Or a Land Cruiser, if I wasn't completely averse to Japanese vehicles.

You can have forward facing rear seats in 90csw . But only the more recent marques after side facing seats were banned.

But forget actually using them on a regular basis even more so with child seats ..... They are accessed by rear door and a sod to get in and out of while unfolded.

Yep - I stand corrected - just seen a few with forward facing rear seats.

There are two schools of ownership with Defenders - those that get the overalls on and spanners out at the weekend and just love everything about them (including the maintenance and mods). And those who like the image and chucking wods of cash at a Land Rover specialists at regular intervals.

They don’t go, they don’t stop. don’t turn, can’t even really sit in them without hanging out the door.

That's horse shit.its not even hyperbole it's just downright wrong.

Sure it's no r8 but it does all those things adaquately if your not racing. Or grossly over weight.

Only buy a classic range rover/MK1 disco if you like welding. Only buy a MK2 disco if you are competent to do or willing to pay for a chassis swap

Fwiw if I was buying again I'd buy a 110.

90s are tiny in the back - even a 110 isn't that great...you can only get a 29er in with a wheel off.

I loved my Range Rover Classic but yeah, it did take a bit of tickling with the MIG. And there was always something ****ty needing fixing. It had enough character, and was a pleasant enough place to be that that was entirely forgivable. I can't imagine feeling the same way about a Defender.

Fwiw i have been in and driven defenders so know what to expect from that perspective. Its a second car, something with a bit character thats fun to drive around in a way that a defender is in my opinion. The reliability aspect is key though. I wont be doing any spannering and i dont want to be constantly taking it to a garage.

I dont want a disco or range rover. G-wagon is an interesting call. Landcruiser it would have to be an old boxy one before they became all swoopy rounded japanese styled.

From what you have said .... It's not the car for you

Import patrol or land cruiser

I get to drive them for work. I have the firm opinion ONLY fashion victims buy them, because they are not functional on so many levels.

They don’t go, they don’t stop. don’t turn, can’t even really sit in them without hanging out the door.

I drive a 130 for MRT duties. It has the turning circle of a small oil tanker. Accelerates and stops fine. Whilst I wouldn't say you are hanging out of the door, you are wedged right next to a very thin door, I certainly wouldn't want to be hit from the side by another car.

Positives?
1. you feel involved in driving it, it is interesting to drive but not for any distance
2. surprisingly epic off road
3. Nope, can't think of a third.

Out trucks are really well looked after, garaged, checked non stop, always up to date with servicing and only 25k miles on the clock. But they cost a fortune to run. There is always something rusting, something not working, something needing fixed. I find it fascinating just how many ills people forgive because of the romantic notion of it being a Land Rover. They are, in most circumstances, just terrible cars.

But there is something about them which is quite special. I'm doing it again, totally contradicting myself!

Sure it’s no r8 but it does all those things adaquately if your not racing

Not by modern standards they don't not even close, especially the turning and fitting in if you are anything above average hight.

We have them at work and they are hateful things. The newest are woeful with the older ones being even nastier. Of all the vehicles I have driven (including old JCB's and Green Goddess') they are the worst. Why anyone would part with the money you have to for one is beyond me and the day the one at our station was replaced with a Transit was a very happy day.

Not by modern standards they don’t not even close, especially the turning and fitting in if you are anything above average hight.

What is average height.

It hasn't been an issue at 6ft 3 . See also any other classic car for the other issue.

It moves it stops it does the speed limit . Adaquate in my book. Doesn't need to do 0-60 I. 0.3 nano seconds for me to be happy. Maybe that's why me and it get on. The fact it can tow 3.5 ton without a grumble is probably the other reason

20k more (ok thats double the budget) for a new defender. How much would repairs be over 5 years? 😀

I've only ever had passenger rides in Defenders belonging to mates. They're an absolutely horrible place to be for any amount of time.

Buy a new Jimny if you want iconic styling. Buy a Hilux if you want something big enough to carry a Jimny.

I have Defender experience. What engine are you considering? 200/300tdi, Td5 Puma etc? Or going as modern as possible on your budget?

What i want is reliable.

Landrover Defender 90

[img] [/img]

Watch this. He is spot on.

As a toy for those who enjoy major tinkering and have extensive workshop and somewhere safe to keep it whilst it’s working/broken then they are a rewarding vehicle .
Basically unless you are a serious enthusiast or ambitious to be one try to find another way.
I only see them when they are broken at a small specialist garage but the owners of all the types from series to defender and classic Range Rover to discos are frequent visitors on 1st name terms and have deep pockets, they are all enthusiasts and all have multiple other vehicles to use.
They are somewhat like wooden motor boats to own , but not as nice to drive.

I drive a 130 for MRT duties.

@franksinatra - Your's isn't a red ex-North Yorkshire fire service wagon is it?

Lol at Hilux.

I like a Jimmy .... But iconic styling it is not. Not yet anyway. One day it maybe. Quirky doesn't make it iconic. Time makes it iconic.

A colleague bought a 110 demonstrator 6 years ago and it's worth more now than what he paid for it.

I have Defender experience. What engine are you considering? 200/300tdi, Td5 Puma etc? Or going as modern as possible on your budget?

Im not fussed. Its only going to be used as a run around so performance (said almost laughably) isnt a concern. If there was a better condition 300tdi versus a more tatty TD5 then id opt for the former. I do need a way of getting the kids in. Theyre happy climbing in the tailgate but the sideways bench seat isnt going to work. If a seat can be retrofitted to what was a bench seat then thats an option.

Will have a look at Matt’s video

I do need a way of getting the kids in.

If you are determined to go for a Defender, make it a 110 then.

I do struggle that someone's thinking of spending 15-20 k on a 300tdi/td5.

Indeed t_r, amazing prices.

I know a field with half a dozen sat, Mk1, MK2 and newer. Pic below. Perhaps time to see if there's brass to be made.

https://flic.kr/p/dJX5S1

My neighbour had a running issue with his 08 Puma 110. While it was at the garage he asked them to put it through its MOT.

Three seized brake callipers, new discs and pads, new swivels, a crank position sensor, cross threaded stub axle and a front diff with more water than oil in it.

Total repair bill £2k

Had a 90 for 3 years. Was a fun weekend off-road car but no good for daily driving. Too slow thirsty and cumbersome. Always had something that needed fixing. Leaked a lot. Ball joints needed doing. Chassis welding. Steering box replacement. Door locks were iffy. Heating was lowsy. Was ready for a gearbox rebuild but got stolen off my drive. Bought for 3k. Spent about 3.5k in maintenance in the 3 years I had it. Glad i got it out of my system. Probably won’t have another. Get a modern 4x4 instead

Indeed t_r, amazing prices.

For context I spent 2000 on the original vehicle ran it for 2 years. It spent a year off the road static. Then 9months in pieces getting a rebuild. I spent about 4k over hauling the running gear with axle rebuilds , uprated the engine and redid all the wiring to rid it of the grim messed about with wiring I inherited and replaced rear xmember / outriggers all new suspension and bushes to make it feel less like it was 30 years old

It's been on the road for last 5 years worst issue was a brake master cylinder seal and servo that failed.

It'll probably want a galv chassis and bulkhead in 5 more years....maybe we will see

The 300tdi is a solid choice due to the R380 gearbox. Kids involved, for safety I'd go 110. Proper belts in the back for them. At the upper end of your budget you will get a very good 300tdi. I'd purchase from a Land Rover specialist for extra insurance your not purchasing a dog. Nene Overland etc.

@franksinatra – Your’s isn’t a red ex-North Yorkshire fire service wagon is it?

Nope. Our pair were purchased new.

I’d purchase from a Land Rover specialist for extra insurance your not purchasing a dog. Nene Overland etc.

That was my thought.

For context I spent 2000 on the original vehicle ran it for 2 years. It spent a year off the road static. Then 9months in pieces getting a rebuild. I spent about 4k over hauling

Also wondered whether getting a more tatty but cheaper via one of the above and paying for them to overhaul it to a certain degree.

That video sums up why id like one. I know theyre generally crap in comparison to modern cars.

If it's of any use, i have one forward facing rear seat that folds in on the top of the wheel arch if you wanted. It's an Exmoor Trim one. All brackets are there but you would need to get replacement stainless fasteners. Been sat in the shed for 3 years now and I keep meaning to sell it but never get round to it.

Oh, and I've had two defenders - 90 and 110. I LOVED them both but you need to be willing (or accepting) to get the spanners out yourself.
There's no other car in history that has transcended the class boundaries I dont think.

Just do it. If you realise it's not for you, you wont lose a penny in reselling!

My mate loves his 25 year old Defender. It does have uprated suspension as he does some real off road trials in it. It's a cloth bakc as well, and never locks it - surprised it's not been stolen, but it's rough looking. It's mechanically very sound and he replaced the chassis last year by himself on his driveway.

Also wondered whether getting a more tatty but cheaper via one of the above and paying for them to overhaul it to a certain degree.

It wasn't my plan. I bought it due to where I lived to get in and out the house 4 months of the year.

Like most folk who have never had one I thought it was absolutely pointless crap and horrible thing prior to buying it.

Now I know it's a good tool and love the simplicity of it. I just have no expectations of it being a white leased audi and I have dirty hands.

Although it's hardly the same vehicle I kept mine rather than bought a newer one as it's the same age as me primarily and also I know each of its two previous owners and its lived all its days within a very specific area of significance to me.

Also wondered whether getting a more tatty but cheaper via one of the above and paying for them to overhaul it to a certain degree.

This could be a way to go. Get them to do the parts you are not confident with and the bits you do fancy rolling your sleeves up with are enjoyable and let you own the vehicle in a more personal away. I found tinkering around the edges with cosmetic/lighting upgrades eventually led me to full suspension upgrades and Zeus timing gears on my 300tdi. Defenders become addictive.

That video sums up why id like one.

Exactly. Frustrating and ridiculous as they are, they have character and make you smile.

I still wouldn't have one.

They're the dictionary definition of marmite.
I think you either "get" them or you don't?

There’s no other car in history that has transcended the class boundaries I dont think.

Really? Even if the idea it trancscended class were true what about the the mini, ford model t, cx beetle, vw golf, Fiat 500 Lotus seven etc

Massively overhyped, overpriced and undeservingly loved. I had a series 3 88" and an arctic spec , LHD 110 , and the 88" blew up whilst ragging it at 53mph, and the 110 was too hot to drive in tbe UK so I sold it for next to nothing.
Best 4x4 i ever had was either my Isuzu TF (Vauxhall Brava), but not practical for you, or my beloved 1998 Grand Cherokee which I should never have sold. That vehicle sounds perfect for what you need. You could pick one up for a few £k, and have all that money left to spend on fuel, youre going to need it.
Oh, and if you buy one, do yourself a favour and get the crank sensor dine first as last. Major PITA job and an inevitability.

But...if you do buy one, get a Wolf variant. Dont know why, but driving them and a normal 110 was like night and day.

10year 110 owner here, sold it to capitalise on crazy current values.

They are complex vehicles with lots of oily bits that all require frequent attention (engine oil, 2 diffs, gearbox oil, transfer box oil, front swivels) as well as normal service items.

You need either deep pockets to keep them reliable or have time and be handy with spanners.

I wouldn't buy another although I loved owning mine.

Needs a bit of work, but it’ll buff up nicely...

😉

Similar to fransinatra - we have 2 Defenders for MRT duties. Pretty much everyone on the team hates driving them. They have a reverse tardis effect; massive outside, cramped inside. Two of our tallest team members can’t physically get behind the wheel to drive them. Braking is awful, steering is wandery, and they wallow when driven on road. They’re an absolute hoot to drive off-road; everyone suddenly thinks their ace after we’ve done our off-road driving refreshers...until we go back to driving them on tarmac.

In short; unless you really need the off-road capabilities, buy something else.

What i want is reliable.

Funny 🙂

I won't stand up and say they're the best cars ever, 'cos they're clearly not, but they really don't have to be unreliable.

I've been driving them for ~12 years now, I've had two 'breakdowns'.

Once the alternator died (still ran, but it was a petrol and it was dark and rainy so I knew I wouldn't get home on the battery). When I got home I resoldered a connection in the alternator and it's been fine since.

Then last week I was towing a massive trailer out of a myre and the clutch started slipping. Got a tow out and drove it home, where it awaits a new clutch (which will set me back ~£100, so not the end of the world).

Look after them and they'll look after you.

They do need more looking after than a modern car though - service intervals were much, much shorter when these things were designed. If you want to buy something you can ignore between 15k mile services then they aren't for you.

Not as 'trendy', but why not get a Discovery 4? Infinitely nicer and prices have come right down

There’s no other car in history that has transcended the class boundaries I dont think.

Really? Even if the idea it trancscended class were true what about the the mini, ford model t, cx beetle, vw golf, Fiat 500 Lotus seven etc

By "transcending class." I mean that everyone from the farm worker through to the queen drives them. Not true (I don't think, though happy to be corrected) of the models you mention?

So farm workers and people who own big farms then. Not a massive cross section of society then;)
I think Princess Diana owned a golf as did an old workmate of mine who lived on an estate (council not sandringham) and sold ecstasy- that’s got to be a better example

I suspect the unreliable tag is more applicable to newer ones. My 93 200Tdi 110 has been pretty good...has only actually stopped on me once in 10 years (touch wood) and that was easily sorted by an AA man. It was a bit unreliable starting for a while but I traced that to a bad earth. I don't do much of my own maintenance, I spend a couple of hundred a year on service and whatever it needs for MOT. Had to have two new outriggers this year but that's only a few hundred. Is it comfortable? No. Is it practical for my needs? Sort of...fine we for taking bikes to Afan or Brechfa, but I wouldn't want to go further. Sort of ok for carrying windsurfing stuff, as long as it's only me. It was great when I had dogs...just chuck them in the back no matter how wet and muddy.
But I like it...if I had a van I'd probably have to treat it better to stop it looking like a builder's van. Not sure what I'll do instead when it does die.

So farm workers and people who own big farms then. Not a massive cross section of society then;)

Read it again. Without the chip on your shoulder. That's not what he has said.

I bought a crap Transit van after I sold mine -

faster and quieter on motorways,
comfier driving position,
the dog prefers it,
can sleep in it rather than in it (had a Howling Moon roof tent on the 110).
Can throw bikes in easier.

Both have the same reliability record so far with both breaking down twice. The Landrover I sorted by the side of the road (fan belt and power steering) and got home, the van had to be recovered (starter motor fail, crank pulley snapped off).

Read it again. Without the chip on your shoulder. That’s not what he has said.

Read it again and see the little 😉 thing that means I’m teasing, maybe you’ve got the chip. But I think my second point stands.
I have no real opinion on Land Rovers, I live in a city, have only driven the one - strangely it went ten yards and then spat its clutch, friend has had a couple, seem to be stolen from him fairly often. All the farmers round our place in Ireland seem to get by with old Japanese 4x4s or saloon cars.

Driven many, many Defenders over the years. Excellent off road tools to get places most other cars couldn't even dream of, great wading, deep snow and towing ability. Also great to hand back at the end of the shift, knowing I wasn't paying for fuel or maintenance.

By far the worst road car I've ever driven. Heavy, vague controls, ancient 'quirky' layout and, other than its considerable mass, there's a worrying absence of safety features. Have attended quite a few crashes involving them. They always win in minor bumps against smaller, lighter, deformable cars, however they are deeply unsafe in higher speed collisions as all the impact forces pass through the chassis to the occupants. Two head on collisions I recall involving Defenders, one had crashed into a Discovery and the other a Range Rover. Both Defender drivers had life threatening injuries, yet the Disco and Range Rover drivers were conscious and chatting. They are also prone to rolling over and there's negligible roll protection in those narrow pillars.

I'd never, ever even begin to consider purchasing one as a reliable, safe, family car, they simply aren't.

Depends on your standards. If you are a iphone 75 ( nor what ever version they are on) buying, 60" telly person who wants the world now, then run away.
They do 70 easily, engine dependent. In the UK thats all anyone needs ever on the road. They go all round the country comfortably. After all two, much earlier versions, went to Singapore in the 50s. They are not cursed with stupid plastic bits everywhere on the body so you don;t care if you park in a hedge. (Alright some of the polish and pose brigade might not like that)
Been though 6 over the years and another one on the cards.
Drive one first.

They go all round the country comfortably

Can I have some of what you're smoking please?

If we are talking about crash protection, i had a some mates who wer e in one which aquaplaned whilst towing a trailer full of canoes. Every one inside had serious injuries, one died.
My own experience was a drunk driver who rammed into me at a crossroads one boxing day. He slammed into the big steel wheel and the beefy axle it was attached to. His citroen was absolutely trashed, bonnet crumpled , bumper off, the works. I had a bit of crappy citroen plastic stuck in my wheel and went about my day as normal.

I have put a fridge through the side of a Landrover panel by going around a roundabout. Big ugly gash in the soft birmabright panel. No worries though, fixed it with someone holding a sledgehammer against it and hitting it flat from the outside. Apart from the paint being marked you could never tell.
What I'm saying then is they are decent utility vehicles but terrible town cars. How they became popular for non-farming families I'll never know.
Could really use a HCPU right now though.

I used to love driving the work one. It was a laugh and gave you a good feeling, which can’t be said of most cars I’ve driven. But. It was noisy, uncomfortable, wallowy, thirsty, terrible turning circle and needed the window down so you could rest you elbow. This, however, was all part of the charm. I wouldn’t own one unless I lived on a farm.

What I’m saying then is they are decent utility vehicles

Away with your talking sense.

I would not like to crash one at motorway speeds. This current trend of making them have 200bhp plus to keep up with modern cars is stupid

55 flat out is fine. Mine can and has done 70 just to see if was possible but it's not where you want to be with it.

Has enough power to tow 3.5 ton happy enough. -had to move a 2t mini digger and buckets last month. It wasn't phased. It's regularly got 2 ton back from the quarry and timber yard as required.

Fyi those saying it they have shit brakes probably need to be doing maintainance on their calipers.... Mines had shit brakes. After a caliper rebuild with stainless pistons my mot man even said what the hell have you done to that.....nearly went through the window. Ie they were working as designed. Hugely over specced for the working weight of the base vehicle due to the GTW

As someone who drives them fairly regular in work and also sells parts for them...

I absolutely cannot understand the hype/love for them.

Slow, noisy brakes are terrible etc etc

Yes they work great off road as a farm truck etc but on road they are just not very enjoyable, it's basically a toy for offroading or something to keep you busy in the garage.

I'd absolutely have something more reliable (Japanese) if I needed something to do the same job, which is what the farmers in my family have done for 25+ years when they all binned off using land rovers and haven't got one back

Place next to where I work always have some beauties outside the workshop & I often think, 'IF i was loaded with cash I didn't mind getting rid of....'

https://bespokedefenders.co.uk/

It hasn’t been an issue at 6ft 3 . See also any other classic car for the other issue.

You must be freakishly thin then as virtually every person I know who drives them struggle to get anything close to a comfortable driving position.

As for the classic car comment, fine for the old ones but our work vehicles were bought within the last 10 years and as such should be compared to any other modern car that was also an option. They fail on that front.

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ditch_jockey
Full Member

Similar to fransinatra – we have 2 Defenders for MRT duties. Pretty much everyone on the team hates driving them. They have a reverse tardis effect; massive outside, cramped inside. Two of our tallest team members can’t physically get behind the wheel to drive them. Braking is awful, steering is wandery, and they wallow when driven on road. They’re an absolute hoot to drive off-road; everyone suddenly thinks their ace after we’ve done our off-road driving refreshers…until we go back to driving them on tarmac.

Do you also have die hard team members who can’t entertain the idea of using any vehicle other than a defender for MR duties? To even suggest a Hilux is like insulting their beloved mother!

As for the classic car comment, fine for the old ones but our work vehicles were bought within the last 10 years and as such should be compared to any other modern car that was also an option. They fail on that front.

Can't argue with that. I haven't tried but the issue is they are a classic design. That is they were designed in 83- even before that if you go back to the roots . Little has changed.

That's either your purchasing departments fault or your managements SOR was wrong.

I'm not freakishly thin . I'm the correct weight for my height. Certainly 2 stone over what I was when I was racing - which would have been freakishly thin.

I wouldn't have a Hilux as a replacement . I have had the misfortune to do enough miles in them with work on terrain that warrents a capible 4*4 to run a country mile. Top gear has alot of mistruths to answer for on that one

Marginally better than l200 mind but still over complicated and somehow manage to be smaller inside the driver's area than my 90. Albe it our hiluxes are fitted with internal roll cages.

I'd have an old land cruiser fair play. Also spent a fair bit of time in a 6cyl relaunch of the classic square body. They kept it basic inside and it's much better for it.

Farmers round my way run Isuzu rodeos for towing and polaris/gators for actually going into the fields . Because both are better at their specific job than the land rover , both are cheaper these days.

The estates still use land rovers because that what the gun set want to see..... Traditionalism

If you want one with a wide range of specs consider importing from South Africa. No salt is used and the climate on the highveld is bone dry. They are no cheaper than here but you get a chassis and bulkhead in new condition. There are plenty of firms who specialise in buying used vehicles and shipping them back in empty FCLs but for the UK they have to be older than 7 years or 12, I can't remember.

Got two ex army Wolfs, a series 3 lightweight, and a series 1. Are they reliable, no of course not, do they drive well - nope, good off road - supposedly though I generally don’t go very far off the beaten track. Why do I spend so much time, money and effort on them - I’ve absolutely no idea, but they never fail to put a grin on my face - pays yer money and takes yer choice.

For simplicity and reliability 300tdi with R380 gearbox would be my choice. At least then most of the things that go wrong should be easily fixable.

As for values - 10 years ago I bought my series 1 as a non runner which had been parked in a garden for 20 years. I tucked it away in the garage and have only very recently started a sympathetic restoration. Even before I started on it I was offered 4 times what I paid for it - go figure!

You must be freakishly thin then as virtually every person I know who drives them struggle to get anything close to a comfortable driving position.

Pretty much my issue with Berlingos and Partners, horribly uncomfortable things, I detest them, and I’ve yet to meet a plater with a positive opinion of them, yet there are people on here who appear to like them, which is beyond my comprehension.
Sadly, I’ve never had an opportunity to drive a Defender, I have driven Jimnys, Navarra, HiLux, Rangers, Discos and Range Rover Sports, over enough miles that I wouldn’t buy a Navarra or a HiLux, far too choppy a ride, and I would guess a Defender is not unlike a Jimny, a bit choppy, not something you’d want to drive a couple of hundred miles in, but tons of fun around country lanes and off-road - I drove a Jimny back from Kingsbridge once, about 140 miles, and I’ve been in far more uncomfortable cars, that’s for sure - but I’ll reserve judgment on a Defender until I ever get a chance to drive one for a few miles.

Why would someone who prepares steel for fabrication offer an opinion on a car

#stopthemisappropriatoonofprofessions

I assumed he meant trade platers . . .

Plenty of seats in this abomination. 🤮

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I can't decide which is worse the Landy or the house - they both need to be treated to a generous dollop of high explosive to improve them 😄

I assumed he meant trade platers

I know what he meant bit of a wierd name for *car delivery* mind. Especially when an actual plater is something else entirely.

Being an actual plater would be a useful thing owning an old land rover.

@trailrat
Indeed