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How would you all feel to be accused of a crime and offered the chance to clear your name only to reject it?
You fellate Natterjack toads, and other sex acts on various other amphibians. And I've got testimonies from witnesses to back this up. If you want to clear your name, come join me on the Jeremy Kyle show to hear the evidence against you, and defend your sordid sex acts.
Jeremy.
I'm in disbelief at the no. of presumably intelligent people that have been sucked in by LA's "poor me" show.
I CBA posting against it any more.
And where are the positive test results for LA?
Ask Verbruggen, Ashenden and McQuaid
And where are the positive test results for LA?
Or Marion Jones?
Or Pantani?
You don't have to have positive tests to be a drug cheat.
Although for Lance there is the:
~ Cortisone test for which he produced a retrospective medical cert (despite no place in the procedures for retrospective certs)
~ EPO found in his '99 TdF samples (although not found as part of formal doping controls)
~ EPO found in his 2001 Tour Du Suisse samples (part of the USADA case that he chose not to contest)
~ Evidence of blood management in 2009 and 2010 (part of the USADA case that he chose not to contest)
I'm in disbelief at the no. of presumably intelligent people that have been sucked in by LA's "poor me" show.I CBA posting against it any more.
I can understand why.
It's certainly not an informed debate, people are still banging on about 'his day in court'' and 'never tested positive' because all they know about LA is a plastic yellow band and the fact that he beat the france tour and cancer.
That's understandable if you are a patriot with little interest in sport beyond Super Bowl and indycar, and take your news in a NBC sound bite but the real story is out there if you know where to look.
But I guess it's easier to do a hora and just mask your ignorance by asking another glib question instead of taking it on the chin and accepting he was a lying, manipulative, egotist, doper with friends in high places and lots of money.
Jonba - To suggest anyone has been taken in by an arguement and is a fool just because you disagree makes you the fool
Who called who a fool?
You fellate Natterjack toads
That was a long time ago, no need to mention that now 😯
all they know about LA is a plastic yellow band and the fact that he beat the france tour and cancer.
Over the last day or so I've had lots of folks who fall into that camp telling me it's a disgrace what's happened to him. So this is certainly part of the issue.
What I take from this though is the power of a good legal team and flat denial to maintain an element of doubt in the face of pretty convincing evidence.
Blood management?
A B sample but no A
[img] 
[/img]
Yesterday I saw a roadie covered head to foot in Livestrong yellow kit.
Impressed. Today for the first time in years I wear my Livestrong band.
Foxtrot Oscar to all those who hate L.A.
Surely it's not possible to say who won fairly and who didn't? I can't see the French stripping any titles from French riders. Isn't it best to say, as mentioned sbove, the past is different, some of these results are suspect. I know that's not fair on the clean riders, but can they claim a victory if anyone on their team used drugs?
Whoops used the wrong pic
[img] 
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Foxtrot Oscar to all those who hate L.A.
Oscar Sierra Tango Romeo Indigo Charlie Hotel
Thats ok Gary. You can hold a sweepstake on who is clean in todays Pelatons and when they will be caught.
As long as I can pick the old guard Spanish and Italians, I'll be a winner.
Today for the first time in years I wear my Livestrong band.Foxtrot Oscar to all those who hate L.A
So now those in the real world as well as those of us on the internet can know what a fool you are
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-armstrong-warned-before-all-doping-controls
French attorney Thibault de Montbrial, who defended the paper in a suit filed by Armstrong against LA Confidential authors David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, thinks the cumulative pressure of authors such as these and the SCA Promotions lawsuit that followed contributed to the downfall of Armstrong.He also believes riders are still showing suspicious signs.
"Work together with Antoine Vayer [LeMond columnist], the performance specialist, helped show the implausibility of the power generated in watts on the climbs. Moreover, it is interesting to note that the UCI has banned the publication of such real-time statistics in 2012. And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s."
And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s
but their recovery isn't. remember Vino crashing one day then going on that mad solo break and climbing like a man on, er drugs?
the W/KG/hr ratios may be similar but the performances aren't
the times on the big climbs like Alpe d´huez are all a lot slower than those of the 90's.
And also remember that the French press have a long record of throwing drug allegations at successful, non-french riders like say for instance the cyclist formerly referred to as '7 time tour winner' Lance Armstrong. Just coz they happened to be right* on that occasion doesn't mean they are this time.
*or so it would appear.
I don't agree with the statement, it's just sad that for cycling this is the prevailing attitude.
It would be nice if all pharma companies put markers in their drugs so they could be identified, bu this won't help as there will always be a producer somewhere willing to ignore this.
It would also be nice if there was a requirement for all new drugs, from the initial testing phase, is submitted so the WADA can have them on file.
It would be nice if all pharma companies put markers in their drugs so they could be identified, bu this won't help as there will always be a producer somewhere willing to ignore this.
There are markers (plasticisers) only the manufacturers didn't put them there, there are also far better ways of detection by looking at other natural levels in the body affected by doping., any 'markers' would be a tiny percentage further diluted by micro dosing plus a lot of drugs are manufactured for more worthy causes ie helping the ill.
So a bit of a non starter really.
Hora, earlier today
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Who is that just out of shot unzipping?
I believe Binners normally heads the queue, although (for a number of reasons) he wears a strap-on.
Lance has just issued a statement:
He's admitted doping, but has categorically denied any evidence exists to prove Hora's sanity. 🙂
piemonster - that article is retarded. For start they failed* to see that the 2012 TdF had a faster average speed than 2000 because there were less mountains.
* I suspect they "failed" on purpose!
jflecth, just punting it out there. It's not necessarily a reflection of my own opinion.
I can't help feel that after the hysteria has died away, there are going to be some people who will come across a photo of Lance and suddenly think " that man has made me look a right chump"
it is interesting to note that the UCI has banned the publication of such real-time statistics in 2012. And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s."
so they are not published but we can still tell 😕
Personally I think the fact cadel can win shows the watts has dropped unless of course someone wants to argue he got better as he got older?
It is time for a moratorium on the witch hunt for dopers. It is time to set up a new harm reduction approach to doping that bans only very unsafe substances and interventions which are inimical to sport. But Armstrong, even if the allegations were true, never used any of these.
That statement - from piemonsters article shows the quality, rationale and logic of the article. What doping is not a harm to the sport? Its sole reason is to boost your performance beyond what you can achieve via natural methods of diet and training?
It also links to death in cycling with the headline
Inquiry into Belgian cyclist's death raises new fears over EPO
Which is clearly one of the drugs LA is alleged to have taken and I am pretty sure death means it was unsafe.
Bonkers article tbh full of contradictions and gibberish like average speed which will be up if you do fewer mountain stages- and nothing on watts. Everything i have seem on W/KG says it has dropped to circa 6.2 ish when LA was circa 7 ish
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/tour-de-france/2012/stage-7.aspx#.UDpOoNba2So
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18921784
Dr Tucker says you can see a marked difference between today and the bad old days when there were no tests for blood doping or drugs such as EPO.
"In the late 1990s and early 2000s if you were going to be competitive and win the Tour de France you would have to be able to cycle between 6.4 and 6.7 watts per kilogram at the end of a day's stage.
"What we are seeing now, in the last three or four years, is that the speed of the front of the peloton [of] men like Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome and Vincenzo Nibali, is about 10% down compared to that generation and now the power output at the front is about 6W/kg."
Nibalii did less than 6 on stage 11
If I nip down to the local Nike outlet store do you think i can get my hands on some yellow and black cycling kit going cheap?
Paul Kimmage interview
I don't think he likes Lance much
3 whistle blowers -
The journalist
"I wrote four books about the guy. All the evidence was out there since 2004 and people will still say there is no evidence. To me there was a wilful conspiracy on the part of sporting officials, journalists, broadcasters, everybody. Now we see the fruits of it: high-level cycling has been destroyed by corruption.
"I would have preferred it if Lance Armstrong had gone to a tribunal and we would have had all the evidence out there. But he has decided to accept these charges because it was the lesser of two evils from his perspective.
"It is not good for him because he has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and has been given a lifetime ban. He has lost every victory he has had since 1998, but the alternative was even worse – to have a tribunal in which the evidence from 10 former team-mates who all say they saw him doping would have been aired in graphic detail.
"That detail would have portrayed Lance Armstrong as a doper. It would have opened the eyes of the public to what the US Anti-Doping Agency believe was one of the greatest, most sophisticated doping conspiracies in the history of sport.
"How did Armstrong get away with this for all these years? Who was complicit in helping him avoid detection? Because there is one certainty – he did not do this without help.
"Bradley Wiggins is the patron of the Tour and the whole sport. As the winner, he is the spiritual and almost moral leader of the peloton. As an anti-doping Tour winner, I would expect Bradley to say this is good for the sport … we want the guys who cheated to be outed, but there is not a lot of that coming from the sport and that makes me wonder if they are truly committed to cleaning themselves up."
David Walsh, author and sportswriter on the Sunday Times, has written four books on Lance Armstrong. He was speaking to BBC Radio 5 on Friday
The masseuse
As Lance Armstrong's masseuse, Emma O' Reilly saw much of the cyclist's body and spent a lot of time with him after his races. She was also a key member of the US Postal cycling team during the 1999 Tour de France and was given important tasks.
O'Reilly was a source for David Walsh's book about Armstrong, LA Confidentiel. According to the book, O'Reilly said she heard team officials worrying about Armstrong's positive test for steroids during the Tour. She said: "They were in a panic, saying: 'What are we going to do? What are we going to do?'?"
Their solution was to get one of their compliant doctors to issue a pre-dated prescription for a steroid-based ointment to combat saddle sores. O'Reilly said she would have known if Armstrong had saddle sores as she would have administered any treatment for it.
O'Reilly said that Armstrong told her: "Now, Emma, you know enough to bring me down." O'Reilly said on other occasions she was asked to dispose of used syringes for Armstrong and pick up strange parcels for the team.
In a letter to Bill Strickland, a Bicycling magazine correspondent, last year, O'Reilly described her experience. "Since I spoke to David Walsh, I have received so many subpoenas that the policewoman who brought them got friendly enough with my boyfriend that she would call before coming and he'd put the kettle on for her.
"If my word is so worthless, why did I go to France and testify to the French drug squad? I worked the '98 Tour de France, and I know how scary these guys can be, yet I was prepared to go to France, to their territory. I went because I was telling the truth, and also because a certain Mr Armstrong sued me for a million euros because of my interview with David … why did Lance feel the need to terrorise me for more than two years? Why did Lance feel the need to try to break me?"
The cyclist
Christophe Bassons became an accidental star of road cycling when he was the only member of the notorious Festina team who was not implicated in drug-taking. His reputation as an honest cyclist made it impossible for him to prosper in the world of professional cycling in the 1990s.
Festina was immersed in scandal in 1998 when a carload of drugs for the team was discovered. In the subsequent police investigation, Bassons was the one rider who emerged with his character enhanced after his team-mates told police that he was the only cyclist who did not take drugs.
From obscurity, Bassons emerged as one of the few cyclists who would criticise drug-taking in the sport. He spoke for many when he complained that the sport had "two speeds", one for the drug-takers and one for people like who him who did not cheat.
During the 1999 Tour de France Bassons was asked to write a column for the newspaper, Le Parisen. The Tour featured the return of Lance Armstrong after his battle with cancer. Basson wrote that the riders were shocked by the speed of Armstrong. Armstrong later cycled up to Bassons to remonstrate with him and encouraged him to leave the Tour. Later on French TV, Armstrong admitted the conversation. "His accusations aren't good for cycling, for his team, for me, for anybody. If he thinks cycling works like that, he's wrong and he would be better off going home," he said.
Other riders threatened him and most ignored him. Bassons could not take the pressure and left the Tour.
Bassons tried to race elsewhere but his reputation preceded him and he gave up in 2001. The cyclist had been a very successful amateur rider but his professional career was overshadowed by his refusal to take drugs and remain quiet about it. He now works for the French ministry of sports and youth, with responsibility for drug testing.
(I think) a total of 9 witnesses was going to take the stand against him. Above is just 3 of them
And there's more.
Talk of masking agents on this article
Kimmage on talksport after 7pm tonight (lets hope they dont have Tony Doyle on after his BBC Radio appearance)
Ooh what did Doyle say?
Big Mig voices his opinion
Oh, and some bloke from the UCI
Does anyone think Indurain was clean?
From the same guy that wrote the 'practical ethics' blog
"So how pervasive is doping? "Some years ago a study found that 90% of athletes would dope if they were sure not to be caught; 50% would still dope if it would guarantee a win but kill them in five years,"
Julian Savulescu
Crikey
No!
cynic-al - MemberOoh what did Doyle say?
Massive LA sympathiser. Churning out all the 'he's then most tested athlete ever' etc etc . Quite embarrassing as he seemed to be caught out a few times when asked questions.
also ..Kimmage on R5
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m1kqx
20 mins in , not great but interviewer clearly has no idea what he is on about and Kimmage gets the hump with him.
cynic-al - MemberDoes anyone think Indurain was clean?
Interesting. Does anyone think Indurain did EPO given Riis's destruction of him on hautacam.
clean ...No, did he do EPO ??
LOL @ that R5 Kimmage interview...
Does anyone think Indurain was clean?
No although the only thing he ever tested positive for was salbutamol and even that wasn't strictly illegal back then.
Interetsingly, Indurain has also come out very much in the defence of Armstrong saying that until there is one body recognised by all as the overseer with the power to do this, then he should keep his titles.
He's got a point. LA's guilt or innocence is very much a sideshow to the whole "bring him down at all costs" attitude shown by USADA and that's what I find the most troubling of all this. Clemency shown to others if they'll testify. No power (or willingness) to do the same to all the hundreds of other dopers. If you do this to LA, then everyone else should be treated the same. You may as well just rip up the results sheets of pretty much every Pro Tour race ever.
piemonster where are you getting these links from
the UCI has had a bit of a spat re jurisdiction but the position is clear both from WADA and the US judge
Under the code they USADA issue a report - he is guilty as charged and should be stripped. they say this to UCI who then implement it. the press release fomr them seems clear what the report will say.
UCI's only options are
1. Ignore it and have cycling kicked out of WADA and therefore lot of sporting events like the olympics. This would seem unlikely as i suspect a new organisation would be recognised for cycling and people move to that. I just cannot see this happening
2. UCI to take a case to the sport arbitration court but the grounds of their appeal would be interesting not least because they do have authority and the charged person did not contest so I am not sure what grounds they would use tbh.
I doubt, given the vrijman report the UCI really want a war with WADA tbh but i dont expect them to move quickly either but they will say they object strongly, disagree etc but say they have no choice - bit like LA did.
Talksport interview is great...listen again on T'sport website when its done. Interviewers are on the ball.
LOL @ that R5 Kimmage interview...
Kimmage doesn't suffer fools does he 😀
Does anyone think Indurain was clean?
Get ye behind me!
Kimmage doesn't suffer fools does he
I wonder what he would make of Hora? 🙄
Sadly I put money in his pocket buying his drivel.
He needs to get out more. Abit like you.
Paul Kimmage REALLY doesn't like Lance
I'm going to walk away from this thread now and finally (but without surprise) accept those geezers I cheered climbing Ardiden where whacked up on scooby snacks, sad and a shame.
Frustrated minor result Tour Jocks take drugs just to stay in a professional cycling job. Get caught or worry about it coming out one day so decide to secretly repent and blacken someones name who they envy for his success.
Meanwhile a once slighted minor cycling journalist decides to ride on his back with attacks to make a living out of it.
Folks remember this Arbitration if Lance went ahead with this he could have been stripped without a failed test just testimonies of liers, fraudsters and cheats. The USADA claims jurisdiction to ban/strip Lance when his last Tour title was in 2005.
Im out.
I've stayed away from this thread, but I have to say, hora, you really, really have not got the slightest clue what you are talking about. It's sad tbh
Get over yourself
Can someone please supply a link so I can listen to that talksport discussion. Can't find it. Thanks
I'm starting to despise Mr Armstrong, shame as its his stance (not the drug taking) that has caused this reaction
You are quite close to out of your mind with that assessment Hora
Get over yourself
Seems he speaks for the forum and all rational thinkers
your "defence" is as straw man wrapped in some ad hominems with a liberal dose of inaccuracies
For example it is know that his masseuse would testify and also that a Dr was going to say that he tested positive in the tour de Swiss. i am not sure how they fit your view of envious liars and cheats tbh
Its like you think everyone had a reason to lie except LA - like he would have no reason to deny he cheated eh
It is well know than many cheats have passed all the tests and it is hardly a precedent to convict without a failed drug test [ he has failed them though]- would you like names just from cycling or other sports as well?
liers, fraudsters and cheats
You are talking about Lance right?
Keep digging hora, you might strike gold.
hora: What do you take away from LA's decision not to go to arbitration? Do you take this at "face value", ie fed up with the sniping and hassle / witch hunt?
Bear in mind that this decision would have been poured over from every angle by a very senior legal team... Each option would have been examined minutely for the various legal and reputational / PR ramifications.
He needs to get out more. Abit like you.
Well i went to watch Keirin racing yesterday and then to the pub, am about to head out on the bike for a few miles now so no need for me to get out more.
While we are on the subject of giving advice how about 'be informed and learn something' or perhaps ' think before opening ones mouth on a subject you know nothing about'
HTH.
Bear in mind that this decision would have been poured over from every angle by a very senior legal team... Each option would have been examined minutely for the various legal and reputational / PR ramifications.
Yes a perfectly managed admission without actually admitting anything and removing an obligation to saying anything under oath, they probably had a high five after working that one out.
Evidently dopestrong donations have soared this last week despite the infidels, I guess thats the patriot home crowd WASP majority coming out in favour of their all American boy.
Anyone know if Johann Bruyneel has decided to fight decision - net strangely quiet on this one.
Link to R5: [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m1kqx ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m1kqx[/url]
Keep listening to the R5 radio interview past Kimmage - the pro Lance woman speaking afterwards is nauseating in her saccharin sweet hero worship of Lance. She subverts the discussion to focus on his foundation and all his positive impact against cancer and the accusation of doping is treated as just an aside.
I never really followed road cycling as a sport but I have read and listened to everything I could find in the past few months. There was always an air of a drug supported sport and this does its credibility no good at all, the USADA should go public with all their evidence.
What I find most duplicitous is the consistent claim of "never failed a test" rather that "I rode clean and have never doped" (if anyone knows of an occasion when Lance has said this please send me a link, would love to read it).
Bruyneel is fighting it and going to the arbitration panel hence why all the details [against LA] cannot be released as yet
Interestingly his [LA statement] defence mentioned
The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?
The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced.
I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.
he does not actually say he never took performance enhancing drugs in his statement if you read it just that he was never caught [ which is debatable as one of the charges was that he was caught and it was covered up]
I suspect a lawyer advises so it sounds like a denial but it it is not actually a lie
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrongs-full-statement-on-usada
Evidently dopestrong donations have soared this last week despite the infidels, I guess thats the patriot home crowd WASP majority coming out in favour of their all American boy.
It will be interesting to see the impact on his public speaking engagements. We had him at our user group meeting in Las Vegas and probably paid between $100-200K for a 45 minute speech. I can't see the big corporate boys booking him in the future, even the patriots.
And with that kind of revenue stream at risk you can see why he tried every legal move he could to get the USADA case dropped. In fact, with that much to lose you wonder why he didn't have his day in court?
Read the tread links, there are reasons it will not go to a federal court.
He knew he'd lose...this way the believers can keep believing.
Aye he did it so he can still claim he never failed a test and it was all just a witch hunt and the gullible and the believers will suck it up.
Like al says he knew he could not win and this was the best position to spin.
Whatever anyone thinks of LA he is not a quitter so why, given his legacy will be tarnished, would he quit now? seriously Hora why would LA quit if he was right, can you name any other situation where he has quit? And to quit to these people when he was right. NO WAY WOULD HE DO THIS
Would anyone let liars, fraudsters and the envious win like this?
Why cant people accept that others have a different opinion to yourself?
Why attempt to browbeat then insult?
The world is full of interesting people who have different beliefs, politics and viewpoints.
& some of them still believe in a Flat Earth.
Why cant people accept that others have a different opinion to yourself?
Because its blind ignorance that Armstrong needs to keep the cash rolling in and the luvies to continue slapping his hiney in joyful success
Why cant people accept that others have a different opinion to yourself?
theres having a different opinion and theres having a different opinion based on information that's available and how reliable you feel that information is and how you interpret it. not forgetting quoting your sources.
then theres wishful thinking and the idle fancies of the gullible and ill-informed .
Why cant people accept that others have a different opinion to yourself?
I accept you have a different view from me ..one that is wrong whilst i have one that is right , happy now 😉
Why attempt to browbeat then insult?
liers, fraudsters and cheats
Not sure why did you do it?
Personally I think it is the inability to face the reality of facts and the uncomfortable truth that a hero was in fact just another cheat rather than awesome and superhuman.
The world is full of interesting people who have different beliefs, politics and viewpoints.
True but many of them are wrong and irrational ones deserve to be challenged.
You have given up with even the façade of an argument and are just making emotional appeals now.
I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition.
no he didn't. he was supposed to remain in view of doping control when they arrived to take an out of competition test but wandered off to take a shower for 25min when he was fully aware of the protocol.
wonder if LA will take this option? i can't see it myself•
[url= http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12738/Tygart-says-USADA-could-reduce-Armstrongs-lifetime-ban-if-he-cooperates.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+velonation_pro_cycling+%28Cycling+News+%26+Race+Results+%7C+VeloNation.com%29 ]http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12738/Tygart-says-USADA-could-reduce-Armstrongs-lifetime-ban-if-he-cooperates.[/url]
•pure idle speculation with no sound reasoning.
I am sure I remember reading somewhere that sales of Festina watches rose sharply after the cycling team scandal. "Bad Boy Chic" or something.
Talksport interview
http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/press-pass/120826/press-pass-sunday-august-26-179542
40 mins in.
v good
Its the same stw characters. Do you shout at the sky sometimes? 😆
Lance, latest have we done it [b]to death[/b] yet.
Thread title fixed