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[s]Another[/s] reformed drugs cheat.Oh christ are we going to go over the MILLAR GOOD - MILLAR BAD stuff again?
Looks like it
Clearly you are in the good camp then lifer and aracer?
I think the UCI can say what they want but if the ASO refuse to hand the jersey to whoever it is the UCI decides won, what can they do.
I think all they're proposing is changing what it says in the record books (and what it says on Wikipedia 8) ). I don't suppose there would be a new victory ceremony either way - did AS even get given a MJ for 2010?
Wait a minute! Maybe Pat is trying to bring the UCI down from the inside, it's the only rational way to look at it, after all could one person be this incompetent?
Actually you may have a point.
spxxky - Member
Does anyone REALLY believe that Merckx, Indurain, etc. were 'clean'
If you're going to choose someone as a 'do you really believe xxxx was clean' then try and pick someone who didn't test positive!
Merckx did.. He tested positive 3 times and was kicked off the giro in 1969
Clearly you are in the good camp then lifer and aracer?
I'm in the camp that thinks he's worth listening to. His past actually gives a more complete perspective than if he was totally clean.
I'm in the camp that thinks he's worth listening to. His past actually gives a more complete perspective than if he was totally clean.
Fair point
Clearly you are in the good camp then lifer and aracer?
Millar is better than Armstrong as he has handled being a cheat differently and seems to be trying to do some good and change the sport, for the better, as a result of his experience.
Neither are as good as someone who has never cheated.
Atlaz, No, the best dopers were winning the races - everyone was doping!
the doping affects different people in different ways - so you can't say that they would have the same results without the doping.
That radio 5 program "Peddlers..." was pretty good and enlightening.
I liked it when that Emma said she lance called her a prostitute after she blew the whistle and she said (something like) "do I look like a prostitute? And if I did why would I still be here earning this money"
Heh, this thread's going round in circles. Again.....
I'm in the camp that thinks he's worth listening to. His past actually gives a more complete perspective than if he was totally clean.
Absolutely. Doping is one of the best things that ever happened to Millar. It was genuinely the making of him, he's come out the other side much more mature and sensible and is actually trying to do some good from it. He's a well known and respected voice not just for the worlds media but also within the peloton.
but also within the peloton
Not convinced that this is the case, certainly with the media but there are plenty of continental pros who think otherwise.
Millar is better than Armstrong as he has handled being a cheat differently and seems to be trying to do some good and change the sport, for the better, as a result of his experience.
Neither are as good as someone who has never cheated.
That is a SCIENCE fact, right there.
Who reckons doping only gives a 4% power increase? The Lille protocol (Festina) was good for 10-15% when tested on elite amateurs. Current performances are stil highly suspicious. Cantador for example up Verbier in the 09 Tour was between 1852 and 1900m/h, that's faster than Riis, or anyone else ever for that matter.
The sharks are starting to circle,,, I can't help but think that this is the start of an avalanche
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20029617 ]got a spare $7m Lance?[/url]
Aso owns a lot of races , not just the tdf . Pari nice , a lot of the classics , i think they have some shares in the Vuelta too .
The dont need the UCI .
The sharks are starting to circle,,, I can't help but think that this is the start of an avalanche
He is screwed. Properly ****ed. The courts are going to take him for every penny he's got now. All his race winnings. All the money he got from suing others like the Sunday Times.
That's about the most complete transformation from hero to zero I've ever seen.
trickydisco - Member
"spxxky - Member
Does anyone REALLY believe that Merckx, Indurain, etc. were 'clean'""If you're going to choose someone as a 'do you really believe xxxx was clean' then try and pick someone who didn't test positive!"
Merckx did.. He tested positive 3 times and was kicked off the giro in 1969
Yeah that was my point...
aracer - Member
"Clearly you are in the good camp then lifer and aracer?"
I'm in the camp that thinks he's worth listening to. His past actually gives a more complete perspective than if he was totally clean.
Well said.
Macavity - Member
Greg Lemond on reduced sanctions for riders who give up their suppliers:“I’d much rather have a Floyd (Landis) come out and admit it, but give up his source, because somebody’s giving those drugs to somebody. And it’s usually a doctor, a team manager, somebody. And if they do that and it leads to an outing of those guys, I’m all for them racing within six months. Second time, you’re out."
Agree with that too.
GLUMP
Millar handled being race leader very well after the tragic death of Walter Waylandt. One hopes there is more to an athlete than doping and ruthless competitiveness, his behaviour that day went some way to prove that.
Edukator, Lemond called foul on Bertie up verbier almost immediately. I've read somewhere (a link on bike radar) that it would have taken a higher V02 max than anyone in TdF history had ever registered. Given that lala was on berties team that year, it isn't hard to imagine Bertie making sure that he was 'well prepared'.
Hmmm. It seems that Geoffery Lemond, Gregs son, is suggesting that Armstrong devoted a meeting of Livestrong to how write bad stuff about Greg Lemond.
He's a charmer is our Lance.
Edukator, Lemond called foul on Bertie up verbier almost immediately. I've read somewhere (a link on bike radar) that it would have taken a higher V02 max than anyone in TdF history had ever registered. Given that lala was on berties team that year, it isn't hard to imagine Bertie making sure that he was 'well prepared'.
I've read this on Cycling News, I believe what he said was along the lines of "that's almost certainly impossible, get in a lab and prove you can"
Probably should dig that out, too busy eating pie
"He threatened my wife, my business, my life," LeMond told the newspaper. "His biggest threat consisted of saying he would find 10 people to testify that I took EPO. Of course, he didn't find a single one."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2006-06-26-armstrong-lemond_x.htm
Thought I'd pick an article from 2006, just in case anyone plays the "why now, why so much hate now" card
*Edit - Sorry, not what you was looking. This pie is awesome, cant focus
ahh wow, that pie was some good s**t
Don't be shy.....show us your pie!
Yes, the pie is interesting me, what pie?
I don't actually believe pie has been consumed, at least not until I see a positive test. 👿
Yes, the pie is interesting me, what pie?
e pie o?
e pie o?
/applauds
Current performances are stil highly suspicious. Cantador for example
Dirty as ****. I mean, come on, he tested positive for something that he would never come across, with blood doping as pretty much the only way into his system, unless he was eating a cow that had been doped a couple of hours earlier. And, as pointed out before, his performances were questionable.
But, given the duels with Schleck, that'd suggest Schleck also doped, particularly when you look at his performance increase from 2009 to 2010 in the Tdf individual TTs.
Yes, the pie is interesting me, what pie?
we want pie! we want pie! we want pie!
[url=
about a song? [/url]
suggest Schleck also doped, particularly when you look at his [u][b]brother being disqualified and the fact the Schleck bros papa is down with McQuaid (second statement is based on something I read some time ago and I am not entirely sure of its accuracy)[/b][/u]
Any armchair legal experts on here? ( 🙂 ) SCA want their 7.5 million dollars back....I imagine that LA will manage that....will he avoid trouble for originally testifying in court that he never doped? Wasn't perjury the reason that Marion Jones did time? I'd presume that LA still has a few friends in higher places than Marion had.
Alex, schlecks papa will probably be in with McQuaid as he's on the board of the Luxembourg cycling federation. He along with Schlecks uncle were on the panel that heard Frank Schlecks doping case last week.
Seriously!
I thought there was a clause in the SCA settlement that said they couldn't come back and challenge it later but that may not count where perjury is involved
I hope
But, given the duels with Schleck, that'd suggest Schleck also doped, particularly when you look at his performance increase from 2009 to 2010 in the Tdf individual TTs
It didn't really look like he did a great job on the TTs in 2010. 2011 he improved but still got smashed by Cadel.
He along with Schlecks uncle were on the panel that heard Frank Schlecks doping case last week.
I still think he'll get a ban. Sort of makes no difference really what the local bodies do if there's no evidence about how that stuff got into his system, he's done.
crikey - Member
Yes, the pie is interesting me, what pie?
Well it's certainly not of the humble persuasion.
Pumpkin pie here. With spices and stuff. I'll not pass a carbohydrate test and my cinnamon levels are off the scale.
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Well, I suppose SCA could take a particularly jaundiced view and have have lala tried for perjury rather than attempt to get their money back.
It didn't really look like he did a great job on the TTs in 2010. 2011 he improved but still got smashed by Cadel.
He was only 30s slower than Contador on the penultimate TT in the 2010 Tour, when he'd been expected to be a couple of minutes down. It stood out in particular because of all the chat about 'he hasn't got the body shape for it' and suchlike. That's when alarm bells started ringing in my head, at least
Not really sure you want a photo of a pie after it's been eaten.
There is still time though, haven't had my first caffeine kick start yet!?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20038998 ]Payback time.[/url]
Just heard on BBC News that UCI have confirmed there will be no 'winner' of the TdF from '99 to '05.
Armstrong has also been asked to return $7.5m in bonuses to Texas insurance company SCA Promotions.
Well, that's that started (from Nobbys link)
It also says that the rules dictate he must pay back the £2.4m TdF prize money he won which would, normally, be shared with team mates. I wonder whether he'd have the balls to ask then for it? :-/
54 pages..
Well done lads.
I'm happy that LA's been stripped of his TdF Wins, happy he's been asked to return prize money, happy that (some of) his sponsors are asking for prize money returns.
I still think a closed year of any ProTour races would do the sport a great deal of good. No Races, nothing, Then in 2014 start over, let the BioPassports continue for all those that want to compete/train in rediness for the forthcoming seeason, just take a year off.
I know this will damage YoungUn's starting out in ProTour but the sport needs to clear itself of not only all the Drug fiasco, but clense the Management too.
Currently there are some exceptional riders being booted off teams because of lack ot ProTour points and their job is a domi, someone who supports.. this rule kills any cohesive team structure and ought to be thrown out.
Along with FatMcQuid.
Thankfully your crackpot idea will never happen.
Someone mentioned the SCA claim. Vague recollection that he got the money out of them because the bonus was if he won, no qualification of how. So him being stripped of the title would mean he didn't win so wasn't due the bonus.
I suspect he's going to discover how much fun it is being on the other side of an avalanche of litigation.
Someone mentioned the SCA claim. Vague recollection that he got the money out of them because the bonus was if he won, no qualification of how. So him being stripped of the title would mean he didn't win so wasn't due the bonus.I suspect he's going to discover how much fun it is being on the other side of an avalanche of litigation.
Yup, some 7.5 million dollars. SCA also paid about 2.5 million in legal fees for armstrong which i suspect they'll want back with interest, along with payment of their own legal fees. Then there's the 4.5 million that ASO will want back for tour winnings. Though I suspect Lance will be more bothered about the jail term for perjury.
Edit: also wonder if they'll reopen that federal fraud investigation that they suspiciously dropped?
Just heard on BBC News that UCI have confirmed there will be no 'winner' of the TdF from '99 to '05.
No mention I can find in online reports, or on cyclingnews (who I'd expect to have that story before the BBC if/when it happens). Are you sure you're not getting confused by Prudhomme (who is ASO, not UCI) expressing his wishes that that is the case?
Yup, some 7.5 million dollars. SCA also paid about 2.5 million in legal fees for armstrong which i suspect they'll want back with interest, along with payment of their own legal fees
The legal fees are included in the $7.5 million - the base figure is $5 million.
Crackpot Idea..?
Logical solution.
I thought the UCI said they'd be meeting on Friday to decide who won what.
I feel for all the Glasgow based cyclists who can no longer say they've ridden with a 7 time TdF champion
I feel for all the Glasgow based cyclists who can no longer say they've ridden with a 7 time TdF champion
the Lance enablers.
it can't be nice being duped in such a way 🙁
Let's not forget some of the positive things Lance has done for sport
If it wasn't for him, Average Joes would not have beaten GloboGym
the Lance enablers.
it can't be nice being duped in such a way
50 + pages and still such dreadfully obvious goading/trolling.
why is it trolling?
you 'believe'
you turn up on a wet and windy day to catch a glimpse of your hero.
you return home soaked through to the skin but with a warm glow inside as if you have been touched by greatness.
but it's all a sham, a decade of lies.
you must have some kind of emotional response to that? or not? i think the voice of the enablers should be heard, surely they have a right to that? just as i have a right to ask or comment in a thread about Lance Armstrong?
or are you a forum moderator?
on the positive side, there will be some 'new' reading matter that will not be all guff and puff, pretty pictures and uncritical acceptance.
If it wasn't for him, Average Joes would not have beaten GloboGym
But...it just feels so hollow now.
50 + pages and still such dreadfully obvious goading/trolling.
yes, but it's funny...
I'm struggling to get my head around how someone who cycled with a 'champion' could in any way be regarded as an 'enabler'?
If I played golf with Tiger Woods, would that have enabled him to shag even more women?
Of course you are struggling its because Smith is not so moronic as to believe what he says
Dont feed the troll
i predict Hora will be back in about 95 posts.....
oh it's sinking in, he's deleted his wins from his Twitter account
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/story/_/id/8540579/lance-armstrong-removes-tour-titles-twitter-bio
did he do it or Twitter?
The response from the peleton up till now has been a colletive meh with a few "shoked" and "dissapointeds" thrown in but the response from Sammy Sanchez, the former olympic champ and TDF stage winner, really takes the biscuit.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/samuel-sanchez-criticises-armstrong-ban
You cannot punish a person only by verbal accusations. I think Lance has not tested positive throughout his career, was never sanctioned and now we see it all in cycling. One is accused of doping and they take away your career
Sammy sounds like a nervous chap.
Ok now we just need to work out which [s]poster[/s] Lance enabler he is on here 😉
did he do it or Twitter?
Good point. I'm guessing twitter, as they're still on his facebook page.
@ aracer: the 'no winners' comment was made in this morning's sports bulletin but nowt since - the Beeb may have jumped the gun.
Have just read in the Times that their Sunday publication will be looking for the £600k out of court settlement back from LA. Is it wrong to hope they give it to Kimmage for his defence against UCI? 🙂
Is it wrong to hope they give it to Kimmage for his defence against UCI?
It's not wrong to hope it but it haint gonna happen. Insetad it will go straight on the bottom line and into Murdoch's fat pockets.
If they were looking for a way to spend 600k to buy back some repuation for having the publics best interests at heart they would probably be looking for something a bit more high profile than an obscure cycling case.
oh sammy sanchez, i hope you are the victim of a poor translator.
That Sammy Sanchez quote seems to have come off the back of an Indurain interview.
It was an old rugby mate of mine that arranged the Glasgow cycle a few years back. He is a cancer survivor and used the live strong message to support him. He was very proud to be phoned out of the blue by Lance Armstrong and asked to arrange said ride out. If you have watched the footage you can see him in the background. The impression I got from him was that regardless of LA's now extremely tarnished reputation he was delighted to highlight the foundation in a positive way.
He also got a once in a lifetime invitation the the TDF. Backstage passes included.
you return home soaked through to the skin but with a warm glow inside as if you have been touched by greatness.
...and we return to the similarities to the Savile affair... (allegedly) 😯
Good point. I'm guessing twitter, as they're still on his facebook page.
It would be really quite shocking if twitter started editing people's profile for accuracy. I would guess it was Lance that removed his wins. I wonder who removed his Leadville wins from Wikipedia though as I didn't think they were governed by the UCI
Indurain supports him
Even now I believe in his innocence. He has always respected all the regulations… He has won all the cases he's had".On that basis, Armstrong waiving his right to appeal confused Indurain. "What surprises me is that he doesn't keep fighting," he said. "I think he will come back and appeal and try to show that he played fair for all those years."
Indurain also took issue with the investigative process, challenging the validity of the evidence it produced. "I am a little taken aback. It is strange that this is done only from testimonies. Rules were in place and now it seems they have changed."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/23/lance-armstrong-miguel-indurain-uci-evidence
[url= http://www.velominati.com/the-lexicon/#COTHO ]Millar is included in the list for a c**t of the highest order... Love it[/url]