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Theory is that the Obama administration didn't want to be heading towards an election year prosecuting an "American hero" so the new US Attorney (appointed by the Obama administration) dropped it all. They never said there was no evidence nor wrongdoing, just they were dropping it.
That's all I've seen - surely they can't avoid it if the USADA ruling isn't challenged? If I were a Murken citizen I'd want to see justice done now.
With SCA, there was a contractual get-out which said if he was cheating they didn't have to pay the insured bonus sum. This was the whole bone of the court case they had with Lance/Tailwind
I think it was subtler than this as the evidence of his doping was ignored in the judgement, contractually they were due to pay even if he cheated but was awarded the race. Whether this will stand now if he is stripped is another question.
BTW Phil Liggett says he has been a fool of of but still supports Lance and he received a text of text from a big scientist who said Lance would be dead if he took all the stuff he is accused of. He is still digging - maybe he is looking for a gig on Gardeners' World.
Hora so have you had enough time to ponder my question?
so do you still think he's innocent and didn't dope?
just wonderin like.
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http://fraudbytes.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/my-heroes-in-lance-armstrong.html
It's a blog so take with salt
Crikey.
That was a good documentary
The Five Live special last night made interesting listening. You can probably find it online.
“I hope somebody breaks a baseball bat over your head,” a friend of Armstrong’s who worked for one of his sponsors said in a 2008 voicemail that was turned over to federal investigators.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/lance-pedaling-lies-article-1.1181408#ixzz29SsveSX9
Maybe he never even had cancer?
Who knows what to believe??
Anyone know where I can download the 5 live program? I want to listen in the car on my iPhone but the iPlayer radio app doesn't enable downloads.
I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but this was brought to my attention:
[url= http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/10/09/Armstrong-bock-letter-10-09-12.pdf ]Lawyers letter linky[/url]
The thing that always gets me about the Andreu allegation -
The Andreus say that when he was being treated for cancer, Lance told doctors he'd previously taken performance enhancing drugs. Armstrong says this never happened.
Er, why can't any of the doctors confirm/deny? I know there's patient confidentiality, but surely if there's been a federal investigation they could have been subpoenaed and we'd have a black and white answer?
mikey74 - Member
I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but this was brought to my attention:Lawyers letter linky
Didn't read it all, didn't need to. Written in the style of a petulant child, absolute piffle. Mentions USADA's 'lack of jurisdiction' for a start but my favourite is:
But there won’t really be a “reasoned decision.” And, because USADA’s improper conduct has continued without restraint, fair-minded Americans (including Mr. Armstrong), concerned about USADA’s waste of their tax dollars and unfair treatment of athletes, will support the long overdue legislative reform to make USADA accountable, such as the bill two U.S. Congressmen have introduced aimed at reforming USADA, the “Athlete Due Process Protection Act.”
The implication being anyone who supports USADA is NOT fair-minded.
The hipocrisy of lambasting USADA for it's use of tax dollars is pretty staggering too!
Whoever wrote that letter could be a ig hitter on here - they have certainly helped el;evate lawyers in my eyes.
its like they think if they repeat lies often enough they become truths
Still arguing the hearing was unfair despite the judges ruling that it was fair. Claiming that an "overwhelming public condemnation" of USADA - FFS they cannot actually believe that one can they??
Arguing it was not a reasoned decision because no one heard the case was just funny/tragic/pathetic though they may gain some pedantry points - I note it did not deny he had cheated oor that he took drugs.
LA knows he has no chance of defeating this evidence in a court, he chickened out to safe face and continue lying.
It is embarassing to see him keep doing this
FFS lawyers will do anything for money that is like the tantrum of a teenager
Rest assured, the public will not sit idly by whilse USADA continues to try and justify uts exsitence with a prosecution charade and attempted public charachter assination of Mr Amstron
Deary me - do even his close friends beleive this shit?
It's reasonably well written though and to a lay-person, it introduces just that necessary glimmer of doubt and allows LA/LiveStrong to keep up with the witch-hunt line.
It's pretty telling that donations to LiveStrong have gone up 5-fold in the last few weeks so there are plenty of people out there who either won't or don't want to believe the whole sorry mess.
This will drag on for years now - personally i think it's a good thing that this has all come out, it may well force the change that everyone hoped would happen post-Festina.
LA knows he has no chance of defeating this evidence in a court, he chickened out to safe face and continue lying.
Actually, I reckon he has to keep denying or he'll be up for perjury for certain, won't he? If he keeps denying he can hope that he'll get away without that...
aye fair point clubber
Perhaps LA doing time is the only thing that will end this but even then he will still protest.
If he needs to he can probably do time, come back, write a massive best seller and recoup his losses on the speaking tour market in no time
Martha Stewart anyone?
and a film
Now who would he have play himself in the film?
Yep, there has to be a film. There is no way he is going to lose out of this is there 🙁
hey he is doing it all for cancer in a very ill defined promotion way
Has anyone seen the accounts from Livestrong as I would imagine hte 5 x claim is not true
Yep, I don't even slightly believe that claim. Most likely they took a very tightly defined period, eg. the day after the report, and then went on number of individual donations rather than the amount
jfletch - Member
Anyone know where I can download the 5 live program? I want to listen in the car on my iPhone but the iPlayer radio app doesn't enable downloads.
piemonster - Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01ngqxd/5_live_Sport_Peddlers_Cyclings_Dirty_Truth/
Has anyone actualy worked out how LiveStrong saves lives? I looked at the website and couldn't really understand it. It doesn't seem to fund research or directly support sufferers.
Only has a list of 'Research Grantees' up to 2007
It promotes survivavbility and has huge conferences to raise awarenes - with paid speakers - can you guess who
IIRC it markets itself as some sort of "cancer promtion" type thing- no I dont really get what this means either] but it is quite vagie what they do and nothing like [ imho] as useful as it could be with that sort of money
I think they do some training and support but I am not sure what
MrSmith - Member
Hora so have you had enough time to ponder my question?
so do you still think he's innocent and didn't dope?
just wonderin like.
POSTED 22 HOURS AGO #
Well?
+1 franksinatra
I don't get 'Livestrong'. It does not give (very much) money to cancer research, yet promotes awareness. Surely everyone is aware of cancer?? What is its purpose? Does LA take a massive salary out of it? Who are the beneficiaries? This does not 'feel' right.
I think Livestrong needs investigating, who are the beneficiaries if they are not giving to medical research? If LA is taking anything out of this charity then it is suspicious.
Omega have just terminated its contract with Levi Leipheimer. Listened to the 5live today, horrible.
Bumpty Glitch
FFS bump
Live strong as posted earlier has raised $440M and only spent $20M on research. The rest is spent on "empowering" sufferers and "awareness". Phil liggett has been paid to speak at livestrong seminars...
If LA is taking anything out of this charity then it is suspicious.
I believe he used some it's money to pay his legal costs.
It's pretty telling that donations to LiveStrong have gone up 5-fold in the last few weeks so there are plenty of people out there who either won't or don't want to believe the whole sorry mess.
Didn't someone say on that programme that his image in America is largely still that of a hero, even after all these revelations? People either don't believe it or don't care?
And yes, where are hora and RealMan on these threads?
he wont have taken directly in an illegal manner as he is not stupid
It is clear than brand Armstrong and Livestrong are intertwined to the betterment of LA's profile which doubtlessly makes him more marketable or richer. Then again it is his so what would expect a back seat partner? He certainly never fails to mention it when he is attacked - see the lawyers letter above for example.
L equipe are today saying that Nike and another sponsor of lance ( a banker ) , paid $500000 on a swiss bank account of the former uci president . It was to find a solution to the positive test in 1999 on tdf .
jfletch - Member
Anyone know where I can download the 5 live program? I want to listen in the car on my iPhone but the iPlayer radio app doesn't enable downloads.piemonster - Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01ngqxd/5_live_Sport_Peddlers_Cyclings_Dirty_Truth/
/p>
It's like you just post without reading first. What part of "download" does your link to an embedded player allow?
It's like you just post without reading first. What part of "download" does your link to an embedded player allow?
Ive said before that actually 'reading' STW would send you mental. So yes I didn't read your post and I am wise to do so.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials[/url]
I watched road cycling with a passing interest in the late 80's/early 90's when channel 4 brought the tdf to these shores for the first time and i quite enjoyed lemond race the french chap for the half hour or so they would be on tv. I then missed 10 years or so of the sport where LA built his reputation and fan base, and only came back to it recently. having read most of the recent literature on the sport (other than LA's books), I find it difficult that people still stood by this crass bully of a man until the past months.
Having said that a good friend of mine lost his son to a brain tumor at 18months. He is a cyclist, and genuinely found a heroe in armstrong through both his cycling and charity. We had a chat today and he was angry, but still didn't take his yellow band off. I hate armstrong with a passion, but he does represent so much to so many.
Still hope he suffers a death of a thousand cuts though, arrogant texan numpty
For those asking about what Livestrong does, there's a good article here: http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html?page=all
Basically says that quite a lot of the Livestrong money seems to be funnelled into nebulous marketing guff, but that there is a core business of providing direct support to cancer sufferers, such as helping them navigate the byzantine US health system and suchlike.
EDIT: Just noticed what the little icon thing in the browser tab for that outside article looks like. Chuckle.
See, I do read some things. Just not when I need a dump!
Your right, it is hard to believe, especially when it was all so unbelievable. But one thing I can tell you about 'the lance years' is that they where spectacular. Clearly too spectacular.
Kind of Alberto Contador attacking spectacular. The recovery from crashing on the Luz Ardiden climb(2003?) springs to mind, mainly as i was there getting sun burnt and drunk.
The second half of your post kind of sums up the conundrum really, there is a huge(now considerably smaller) image of him as a hero and inspiration. Never bought into the whole 'hero' thing, but so far I've never needed one so I'm in no position to comment
I still have my livestrong baseball hat and it is very comfortable but I feel more & more like a chump when I am wearing it.
abusers who set up chareetee to hide their cynical intent are the worst kind of creature, moral blackmail is standard with them, so when on other threads people ask what is the connection between saville and armstrong-- they both worked tirelessly to deflect from their real purpose, self aggrandisement .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials
Ta
See, I do read some things. Just not when I need a dump!
That is the best time to read things on the internet. One of the greatest achivement of the modern age is giving you internet access while on the throne.
So many interesting angles to this....
Just been reading comments about LA's cancer, and the reported views that anti-doping controls from the Fleche Wallone ought to have flagged his as then undetected cancer from the blood samples - which then remained undetected until the lump was the size of an orange...? 😯
The mind boggles - I'm pretty sure I'd notice, especially if my job involved sitting on a race bike saddle every day.
I can see why the tinfoil hat wearers have questioned the whole cancer scenario
langylad - Member
I watched road cycling with a passing interest in the late 80's/early 90's when channel 4 brought the tdf to these shores for the first time ........ I then missed 10 years or so......... and only came back to it recently
snap
ive just now, finished reading the (main) 202p Reasoned Decision, very interesting insight into the world of doping
think i will skip the following 800ish pages of 'evidence'
I can see why the tinfoil hat wearers have questioned the whole cancer scenario
Has anyone suggested he didn't have cancer? I don't think even the most die hard of anti-Lance people would say that.
i think its the other way round,that his cancer was triggered by doping, and covered up by his 'methods'-- in the end i suppose he could not ignore the 'orange'!
Pretty sure there have been a (small) number of comments to that effect on here... and elsewhere.
Nike are denying any payment to UCI. Not surprising really. What's surprising is that people felt comfortable putting that sort of accusation in the public domain
So what's going on with the number of ProTour riders who seem to be coming forward expressing "shock" and "surprise" as the contents of the USADA reasoned decision? Surely not a credible reaction to the news.
I'm just a fan and a follower of the sport and none of this particularly shocks or surprises me, so I'm surprised to hear people who were riding in the peloton at the time that doping was rife expressing surprise. Most of this has been known or rumoured for years. More omerta in action?
What's surprising is that people felt comfortable putting that sort of accusation in the public domain
Well it wasn't, was it - at least directly... This was originally a sworn deposition to the SCA case.
And, lets face it, the way I read Nike's statement, they haven't exactly denied the payment....
... just the reason
reading that article it appears that the sole aim of livestrong is to promote Lance, so he can pocket substantial appearance fees at events, and stockpile money, as well as arranging gatherings (money collections) where they talk about Cancer and pay more appearance fees to the guests... LA being a regular 'guest'!
Ive also heard a lot about use of a private jet being charged to LA.
Re hte cause of his cancer - the majority of Testicular cancers are caused by a severe impact (ive had it and my hospital companions all said the same thing, at some point they had had a subsatntial impact or trauma to the effected testicle) - There was an incident during a race in the UK when a car forced its way on to the course and hit some of the riders - from memory LA was hit and the tv cameras showed him holding between his legs bent over in pain, experience would suggest that this may have been the initial impact / cause. However for someone going to numerous medicals it should have been apparent there was something wrong, and it was probably the masking of illegal drugs that also covered up the early signs of his cancer.
it appears that the sole aim of livestrong is to promote Lance, so he can pocket substantial appearance fees at events, and stockpile money, as well as arranging gatherings (money collections) where they talk about Cancer and pay more appearance fees to the guests... LA being a regular 'guest'!
I think it is the fact that th eprofile of LA is linked to Livestrong the bigger it is the bigger he is
Had he just retired and was say making bikes he would not have the profile he does now nor the sponsorship.
I doubt he takes directly from it [ he is not stupid now is he] but I do think he does "profit" from it but indirectly.
Conversly look what would likely happen to livestrong were he banged up in prison as a convicted drugs cheat, perjorer and outright liar.
Or imagine it transpires [ i dont think this does happen] that LA was symphoning of funds for his personal gains [ direct] then what would happen to Livestring and LA- they are pretty much one and the same
It is obvious his status and the L ivestrong status is linked- or he would not keep telling us about all the great work he does for charity
Saint Lance the awesome type thing
Well it wasn't, was it - at least directly... This was originally a sworn deposition to the SCA case.
Which was then repeated by Lemond's wife in a NYT article yesterday I think
And, lets face it, the way I read Nike's statement, they haven't exactly denied the payment....
I think that they denied that they did it, but not necessarily the other person that was named has possibly having made the payment. Always interesting to see what isn't said
the majority of Testicular cancers are caused by a severe impact (ive had it and my hospital companions all said the same thing, at some point they had had a subsatntial impact or trauma to the effected testicle
I've not heard this one before. It's certainly not listed in the accepted risk factors for TC that I've seen.
I guess that as someone 'busting his ass' for six hours a day on the bike, a bit of swelling down below might not get checked out with cancer in mind as quickly, and it's easy to see how LA's underlying low testosterone level might have been 'disguised' while his cancer progressed.
He probably thought he could self cure from cancer. After all, Phil Ligget has personally seen people beat cancer as a direct result of listening to Lance speaking. (as stated in that interview on South African radio / internet tv thing about 2 months ago.)
[i]I can see why the tinfoil hat wearers have questioned the whole cancer scenario[/i]
Whats a tin foil hat wearer?
BTW I said (slightly tongue in cheek)maybe he never had cancer, because if he could carry on that anti drug charade for so long....effectively living a lie, that it would now seem remotely possible that the cancer was also a lie. If not that he had it, but perhaps the extent of it. Who wouldn't notice one of their nuts expanding, especially sitting on those saddles!
Lance Amstrong to quits as chairman of his own cancer charity
At last he has done something right.
Armstrong stands down as chairman of liverstrong...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/17/lance-armstrong-livestrong-cancer-charity
I think that they denied that they did it, but not necessarily the other person that was named has possibly having made the payment. Always interesting to see what isn't said
Nike statement, as reported by the Indie...
Nike would not engage in discussion on the claim last night – instead issuing a 42-word statement. [b]"In response to the offensive allegations in today's New York Daily News, Nike vehemently denies that it paid former UCI president Hein Verbruggen $500,000 to cover up a positive drug test,"[/b] the statement read. [b]"Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs."[/b]
NOTE - the "to cover up a positive drug test" caveat...
To me, that says that the payment was made, otherwise the full stop would most emphatically be after $500,000. Don't forget, the Corporate lawyers would have scrutinised these words very precisely
Whats a tin foil hat wearer?
Conspiracy theorist
bigdawg - Memberreading that article it appears that the sole aim of livestrong is to promote Lance,
It does not, no.
MrSmith - Member
MrSmith - Member
Hora so have you had enough time to ponder my question?
so do you still think he's innocent and didn't dope?
just wonderin like.
POSTED 22 HOURS AGO #Well?
POSTED 19 HOURS AGO #
Well?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/swiss-court-finds-in-ucis-favour-in-landis-defamation-case
Let's be clear that it would be very naughty for anyone to suggest that McQuaid or Verbruggen are clowns or like Gaddafi, or full of ordure, or crooked in any way, so I hope no one is going to repeat such allegations.
Nike must have been feeling some serious heat...
Reading between the lines on the separate Livestrong / Nike news feeds - reckon they've cut a deal???
You stand down from Livestrong and we'll sever links with you, but continue to support the foundation?
Time McQuaid and / or Verbruggen came clean on all this...
As I said above, Nike haven't denied payement to Verbruggen - they have just denied that it was to cover up a doping fail.
I'm pretty sure that their lawyers would have said everything under the sun to make plain that NO PAYMENT HAD BEEN MADE, had no payment been made...
I can understand why a sporting goods company would contribute to the UCI, but to a private individual, and then not deny it... 😯
I've not heard this one before. It's certainly not listed in the accepted risk factors for TC that I've seen
Niether have I just what I know from speaking to the guys undergonig chemo the same time as me - one was caught between the legs by a big hook and some very tight elastic, one was hit by a forklift truck, one was kicked and one jumped off the back of a lorry and caught himself on the tail lift. All damaging the same testicle the cancer later appeared in.
Anyone reckon he's currently orchestrating an appearance on whatever is the biggest chat show in America to come clean about all this. For a fee of course...
😉
The UCI has been very quiet on all of this. I think they've got a week left to either endorse the USADA file or take it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
Just been reading comments about LA's cancer, and the reported views that anti-doping controls from the Fleche Wallone ought to have flagged his as then undetected cancer from the blood samples - which then remained undetected until the lump was the size of an orange..
Well the size is worrying, as you say - but it's clear that all the riders stuff their shorts anyway, so perhaps it was hard to notice... 😉
Actually, in a similar way, the suggestion is his testosterone level was so high that they missed all the 'normal' endocrine signals for testicular cancer, as pointed out above. Which in turn, it has been suggested, was a function of his, ah, 'training protocols'
What now for Trek ?