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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/48393491
"We did what we had to do to win," Armstrong continued. "It wasn't legal, but I wouldn't change a thing - whether it's losing a bunch of money, or going from hero to zero."
From a 30-minute interview with the American network NBCSN that will be broadcast next Wednesday.
https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/05/23/lance-armstrong-next-stage-mike-tirico-interview/
I don't think it's as easy to get your head around as many think.
He's trained day in day out, 4,5,6 hours a day, pushing training, pushing limits etc.. All to be 'nearly'
Then after this 10 years of training someone says "This will get you to the top...." it then snowballs from there. The desire, the will to win, to be the best, to go down in history, that's got to be incredibly hard to say no to.
Oh god, not this again. He cheated, he got caught, he's not a very nice person. The end.
Having read Tyler Hamilton's book I'm pretty sure I would have doped too.
If someone told me if I took a pill now I could triple my earnings.. (and everyone else is doing it too) it would be very hard to say no.
Lance's bullying of others was shameful. But by and large nobody cared whilst he was the all American hero. Winning it seems was sufficient cover to be a total dick.
Lying, bullying egotist tries to justify his lying & bullying by saying “everyone else was doing & so I didn’t have a choice”.
Jog on Armstrong - you were an @rsehoke back then & you’re still an @rsehole now.
Not a surprising stance from Lance... If he hadn't of doped he probably would of had a very mediocre career up against all those other dopers. So yeah, I'm not surprised he wouldn't change a thing.
did the other dopers get caught too?
did the other dopers get caught too?
Quite a lot of them yes, but they weren't any where near as marketable as the all american hero cancer survivor, so didn't get a free pass from the authorities at the time.
I wouldn’t change a thing about doping
I'd bet my life he would... he'd change getting found out.
to be the best
He wasn't if he was cheating. He has the same number of TDF wins as I do.
It wasn’t legal
Actually, it was illegal. Which is quite different. He should be in prison for fraud, but is rich, white and famous...
Would he change being a massive ****?
Lance's problem wasn't cheating as much as it was being a dick about it. If he had won his 7 tours, looked after his teammates and kept quiet he would have got away with it.
We wouldn't change a thing about him being caught, humiliated and stripped of his titles either.
Guns? Knives? Ah, Texas!
Some of you lot must hate just about every cyclist of the 80s, 90s, 00s, and probably a decent chunk of the modern era too 🙂
I view them with the same complete indifference as I view people who [url= https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/even-if-i-wanted-to-climb-everest/ ]climb a mountain[/url] I'm never going anywhere near.
I think we'd be far more forgiving of him if he hadn't been such a dick, with the way he actively attacked and bullied people.
When you see the traits of a sociopath he ticks quite a few boxes:
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Don't forget, it was only a couple of years ago, that after leaving a bar, he crashed his car, then tried to pin it on his girlfriend.
He's still a massive ****.
I think we’d be far more forgiving of him if he hadn’t been such a dick, with the way he actively attacked and bullied people.
This. The doping alone is forgivable, his actions against Bassons, Andreu(s), Lemond etc etc was unforgivable.
Some of you lot must hate just about every cyclist of the 80s, 90s, 00s, and probably a decent chunk of the modern era too
You can’t put all doping pro cyclists in the same category as Armstrong – there are many that decided it was wrong, spoke out, tried to change the profession, do the right thing; Armstrong used his position to discredit and destroy careers of those people so he could maintain the lie he was clean.
I think we’d be far more forgiving of him if he hadn’t been such a dick, with the way he actively attacked and bullied people.
This, basically. I don't believe for a second that any top rider of his era was clean.
You can’t put all doping pro cyclists in the same category as Armstrong – there are many that decided it was wrong, spoke out, tried to change the profession, do the right thing;
At the time? Or after getting caught?
Some of you lot must hate just about every cyclist of the 80s, 90s, 00s, and probably a decent chunk of the modern era too 🙂
I don't hate him for doping. I hate him for being a lying, aggressive, unrepentant thug who would happily destroy anyone in his path to look after his own interests.
+1.
LA would be a nasty fekker in any walk of life - for that alone he’s thoroughly, thoroughly unlikeable with no redeeming traits.
If you’ve not had 1st hand experience with a true narcissist then you really don’t quite know how fing evil they can be.
I think we’d be far more forgiving of him if he hadn’t been such a dick, with the way he actively attacked and bullied people.
Agreed, Tom Simpson drug cheat, hero to many, Eddy Merckx lauded as the greatest ever with 3 drug suspensions to his name. Lance was doing the same as them, doing what it took to be competitive and on a level playing field with no doping may still have been the best of his generation. How he behaved towards others though is totally unforgivable.
Give me Armstrong over Hamilton, Millar and all the other 'reformed and reformers' anyday.
A dick at times, and a sociopath, sure- but those are the the characteristics of many top sportspeople, and aren't reasons to celebrate his downfall.
in my mind, everyone doped, they knew what they were doing, and the consequences and any backpedalling in nothing more than a deathbed conversion.
Has Shinton just found a biography of Geex?
he’s thoroughly, thoroughly unlikeable with no redeeming traits.
Drugs or not, he was one hell of a bike rider and the last true racer to win the tour IMHO. He always looked to attack and take time out of his opponents, even if he had minutes in the bag already. His 7 tours were the most exciting I have seen, and Ive watched a few.
He probably would have still won if they’d all been clean - but that aside he’s still a kunt.
Ahhhh yes, the annual "lets interview Lance again" round, where the mainstream meeja go pawing at a largely dead topic, and giving him the oxygen of publicity... It pops up every year once the prospect of the TDF rears its head and they love it because the story was ultimately about "doing whatever it takes to win" or more honestly Ego and dirty Money...
His 'Wins' have been stripped, what's really left to examine there?
Any Ego he might have is still built on his general purpose narcissism/sociopathy, by rights it should be in tatters, but most of these interviews seem to indicate his ego and self worth are alive and kicking and will probably never die...
And then there's the money;
In 2018, he agreed to pay $5m (£3.5m) to the US government to settle a long-running lawsuit that could have cost him $100m (£71m) in damages.
What they gloss over in that Beeb piece is that his estimated worth is still ~$50 million. OK that's maybe a tenth of what he was once worth but in a world where your bank balance is the measure of your "true Success" for many, he ultimately got away with some of his ill gotten loot, and still gets to live it up having hurt others and damaged the sport he purports to love...
The man is an arse, every time his mug makes it back into the press it just strokes his ego and puts him back on the public Radar rather than letting him drift off into ignominy/obscurity like he deserves...
Drugs or not, he was one hell of a bike rider and the last true racer to win the tour IMHO. He always looked to attack and take time out of his opponents, even if he had minutes in the bag already. His 7 tours were the most exciting I have seen, and Ive watched a few.
He was a bully on and off the bike:
One other incident that stands out from the ’04 Tour was the treatment of the Italian, Filippo Simeoni. (Shortly after the start of the 18th stage from Annemasse to Lons le Saunier, Simeoni joined a six-man breakaway and was chased down by Armstrong. The Italian was no threat to the yellow jersey but had testified against Armstrong’s friend, Dr. Michele Ferrari, at a doping trial in 2002.) What was your attitude to what happened that day?
I was extremely upset with what was going on…I happened to be on the front when Lance came by going twice as fast as us, clearly not wanting anybody to get on his wheel. I knew why he was going up there – he had told us on the bus ‘Make sure Simeoni doesn’t go in the break’ – so I looked at the other guys behind and said ‘Somebody get on his wheel’ but he was already half way across to the break at that stage. So I got on the radio immediately and said to Johan (Bruyneel) ‘You’ve got to get Lance to slow down. You have to tell him to come back’ and the only response I got was ‘You guys have to chase him down.’ And I said ‘Look, I’m not going to look that foolish; I’m not going to chase down the leader of the race on my own team. How dumb do you think I am? I’m going to the back.’ So I went to the back and went back to the (team) car and said ‘Johan, this is ridiculous. We look really bad. He looks like an idiot. How are we going to explain this? Just tell him to sit up.’ And then he told Lance (by radio) to sit up and Lance wouldn’t sit up. He told me to go back to the front and ride. I said ‘I’m not going to be part of this. I’m going to sit at the back’ and so I stayed at the back of the peloton until they brought Simeoni back. I thought it was stupid and I said what I thought – not because I like Simeoni or don’t like Simeoni – I just thought it was a foolish thing to do in the race. I said ‘There is no good explanation for this, I don’t want to be part of it.’ And no one said anything. I was the only one that ever spoke-up against Lance and if I thought something was wrong – and that was clearly wrong – I was going to say it.
Are you saying it was wrong in the context of him as the race leader and you as the team?
No, it was wrong to treat him that way. I just wouldn’t do that.
It was wrong to treat Simeoni that way?
Absolutely, yeah, but my argument to Johan couldn’t possibly be a moral one at that point. My argument to try and get him to stop was ‘Look, this is stupid. He is not accomplishing anything.’ But I disagreed with what he was doing. I just wouldn’t do that. Alright, I had justified winning in my own mind while I was doping but I would never be able to justify preventing someone else from winning that wasn’t doping. Or that had said something to me. I wouldn’t do that, ever. I don’t race my bike to prevent other people from winning. And this is the distinction between Lance and I – I get satisfaction out of winning or achieving a goal; he gets all his satisfaction out of preventing other people from winning.
His 7 tours were the most exciting I have seen, and Ive watched a few.
Really? USPS/Discovery were the blueprint for the Sky bore-athon, controlling every move and able to chase down everyone because of their drug programme. (When Hincapie was chasing climbers up mountains there was a hint of something rotten..) The TdF has rarely been as exciting as the Giro, but they have been far better since LA finished.
I may be guilty of watching too much Games Of Thrones lately but when I read about Armstrong the C word is on the tip of my tongue. Why has he said this now? Has he got a new book coming out?
Just finished reading both Tyler Hamiltons book and David Millars.
In their shoes, I can't imagine I would have resisted the urge to dope. Everyone was at it at the top level apart from the French teams post 1998/Festina.
I'd like to think if I'd have been caught I wouldn't have been such a dick.
My lasting impression from the books is that the team management and the UCI itself deserve more punishment than the riders who got caught. And if only the Spanish had dealt with Operation Puerto properly (I know doping wasn't an offense in Spain at the time), then other sports would also have been exposed, not just cycling
I don't mind the doping at all, I'm sure they're all still at it. He just wasn't a very nice person and treated some people appallingly. Still, those tours were amazing to watch....
When you see the traits of a sociopath he ticks quite a few boxes:
As do a lot of successful people, CEOs and so on.
I remember being in France in 1999 and the "Tour of Redemption" and the everyone in the bar laughing out loud at his Sestriere 'performance' - 'clean' my ar$e! Besides, Armstrong wasn't a 'great' rider before 1999 - a lucky world's, Fleche-Wallone and some stage wins was hardly spectacular. Even when doped, he tried hard to win L-B-L a few times, but when up against another doper like Boogerd, he showed his lack of race-craft. What was insufferable was the campaign by fanboys to shout-down anyone who doubted their cancer Jesus - there was a protected astroturfing campaign on popular forums and threats of legal action against posters. His campaigns against Lemond, Andreu and others was despicable - ultimately the tide of evidence turned and he could no longer defend the indefensible