You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Or democratising the party by giving power to those at the bottom to choose their representatives and influence policy?
Well, as long as they're Momentum approved of course.
Blair did make a habit of parachuting in candidates regardless of what the locals thought. Which is probably why some are now ranting and raving about purges and other rubbish.
Source?
He really is such a lovely chap isn’t he?
I don't know, I've never met him. Though I do support him returning democracy to his party.
he’s doing a remarkably bad job of purging the likes of Margaret Hodge who seems to think he’s one step away from being the next Hitler.
Well, let's see if Momentum think she's fit to stand for the people Barking at the next election.
Well, as long as they’re Momentum approved of course.
Source?
But then again Marr had the ghastly racist Sacks on without calling him out once for his shameful history,
Yep, he certainly gave him an easy time and let him spout out his nonsense. The handshake at the end was a bit too familiar as well.
Well, let’s see if Momentum think she’s fit to stand for the people Barking at the next election.
You do realise local party membership isnt restricted to Momentum members dont you?
Well, let’s see if Momentum think she’s fit to stand for the people Barking at the next election.
If Hodge is my main adversary, I'd be pretty confident I was on the right side of the argument. She was directly behind an attempt to bring a vote of no-confidence against JC as early as 2016, so I'd have little confidence that her 'confronting' him was anything other than political opportunism.
Corbyn's questionable actions as a political campaigner fade into insignficance compared with Hodge's when actually in a position of authority.
It would be nice to see someone a bit more local given a chance to fight for the deprived population of Barking, rather than a multi-millionaire whose family business is still avoiding UK taxes, parachuted in fresh from her incompetent (generous description) handling of a child-abuse scandal in another London borough.
Thankfully Labour has adopted the full definition of The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's examples of anti semetism.
Quite an amazing U turn by Jeremy but good on him.
Perhaps Labour can now deal with any isolated pockets of anti semitism within the Party and this declaration will hopefully allow them to concentrate on ousting the Conservatives.
Perhaps Labour can now deal with any isolated pockets of anti semitism within the Party and this declaration will hopefully allow them to concentrate on ousting the Conservatives
Seems unlikely as the Blair-ites and their pals in the press will see no reason to change a winning formula which is being highly successful in derailing the Labour agenda.
Quite an amazing U turn by Jeremy but good on him.
only under a ton of pressure - he doesn't get any credit out of this - it just highlights his incompetance.
a little step forward and then a big one backwards with the election of Peter Willsman...
A new leader piha?
and there's a qualifying statement about to be released...
and there’s a qualifying statement about to be released…
Yes - affirming the right to free speech. Outrageous.
So do you think they have the database of Corbyns speeches sorted and filtered (cropping as appropriate) to compare against the definitions or will they be pulling an all nighters on this one.
Still it beats shooting civilians doesn't it.
They've been preparing it for weeks - to be dribbled out as damagingly as possible
Thankfully Labour has adopted the full definition of The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s examples of anti semetism.
Yes, it's disappointing that they caved in.
Seems unlikely as the Blair-ites and their pals in the press will see no reason to change a winning formula which is being highly successful in derailing the Labour agenda.
Is it? Polls are not changed much, the membership have just voted in every momentum backed candidate to the NEC, Corbyn's democratic reforms to the party are set to sail through the conference, and his most vocal critics like Margaret Hodge are looking increasingly unhinged and desperate. I reckon he's probably fairly relaxed right now.
Well still not doing them any harm, whilst Tory brexit shambles is hurting them!
Is it? Polls are not changed much, the membership have just voted in every momentum backed candidate to the NEC, Corbyn’s democratic reforms to the party are set to sail through the conference, and his most vocal critics like Margaret Hodge are looking increasingly unhinged and desperate. I reckon he’s probably fairly relaxed right now.
That's my take, as of the rule changes in April, Corbyn's won. He also did his fair share to deliver the Brexit referendum result. He'll be pretty chuffed.
The Anti-Semitism hysteria is probably a bit embarrassing but won't cost him votes from his core vote, and it's way better than having to answer questions on his vision for Brexit.
The only minor problem he has is finding a successor so he and his new-ish wife can have the retirement I'd guess he was looking forward to before his unexpected rise to power. The more I think about it the more difficult that seems.
The only minor problem he has is finding a successor
Take your pick from Emily Thornberry, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angela Rayner. Wouldn't be surprised if it's an all-female shortlist. Even Yvette Cooper if she can successfully separate herself from the blairites and support the policies that the membership want. They'll probably even have Margaret Hodge on the ballot as the token rightwing candidate 🙂
Yvette Cooper has spent the last couple of years doing a pretty good job of being a leader of the opposition, in the absence of much interest in doing so from the present (nominal) occupant of the position
in the absence of much interest in doing so from the present (nominal) occupant of the position
Here's a question, do you reckon JC would rather have spent the last year fighting the tories, or fighting those in his own party who still can't accept the result of two democratic votes, and some of whom have even stooped to calling him a racist? I'm pretty sure I know what he'd rather be doing.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">outofbreath
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Member</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
That’s my take, as of the rule changes in April, Corbyn’s won
As of 12th September 2015 Corbyn won.
</div>
Yvette Cooper has spent the last couple of years doing a pretty good job of being a leader of the opposition
She's spent the last three years sulking because she got spanked in the leadership election.
So do you think they have the database of Corbyns speeches sorted and filtered (cropping as appropriate) to compare against the definitions or will they be pulling an all nighters on this one.
Let's hope they do as they are wasting they time on the anti-semite issue. It clearly hasn't worked even though they have kept to going for months. Keep going with that rather than uncover more lies about Corbyn that voters may actually care about and be influenced by.
they are wasting they time on the anti-semite issue. It clearly hasn’t worked even though they have kept to going for months.
The media exists to sell media. People like to buy stories about crazy things Trump and Corbyn do/say so it is working a treat - the people who don't like the stories are clicking on them and sharing them even more than the people who do. (Probably not working well enough to save the print media from terminal decline, of course.)
Emily Thornberry ... Yvette Cooper
Far more popular with centrist floating voters than Momentum/Corbyn but I can't see the Labour party going back to anywhere near the centre. Last time Yvette Cooper stood she got about 25pc of the vote against Corbyn's 60 odd pc (Rough numbers from memory.) If Yvette Cooper stood the new rules in April mean she'd be standing against a candidate from Corbyn's wing of the party who (no matter how dreadful) would trounce her in a similar fashion. Momentum/Corbyn have already won, there's no going back.
I just heard the ghastly witch Margaret Hodge on R4Today complaining that about the addition of an additional caveat to the IHRA definition and examples.
Strange, since not long ago she said:
"If they don't think there is enough in the definition that allows people to criticise the Israeli government they can add those clauses".
This exposes as clear as day that her agenda has nothing at all to do with antisemitism and everything to do with attacking Corbyn.
... and round and round in circles we go....
Anyone switching on the radio this morning and listening to the factions of the Labour Party bickering about the wording of caveats to amendments to definitions would have noted that it’s a good job there’s nothing important going on at the moment to distract them from this endless pointless self-indulgence.
The Tory’s must be laughing their tits off at the labour parties decision to not only keep digging but to request bigger shovels
… and round and round in circles we go….
As expected, the media are not going to let it go and will get comments, interviews etc,. with anyone that can keep it alive. Just continues to make people even more bored with the matter.
As for pointless self indulgence, how much time do you think it is taken up within the the Labour party and what is the impact on more important stuff that is going on? I would say it is minimal.
… and round and round in circles we go….
Indeed. Wonder if it'll end in another victorious leadership election for JC where he again increases his vote? There's an easy way for it to stop, and that's for the losers to admit they lost, accept that JC is the leader, and to do their jobs of campaigning for a labour govt. Or they can carry on helping the tories. It really is very simple.
… and round and round in circles we go….
It's almost as if the media don't want to ask the tories anything for a bit longer.
… and round and round in circles we go….
Indeed. Wonder if it’ll end in another victorious leadership election for JC where he again increases his vote? There’s an easy way for it to stop, and that’s for the losers to admit they lost, accept that JC is the leader, and to do their jobs of campaigning for a labour govt. Or they can carry on helping the tories. It really is very simple.
Why should people accept Jeremy and all that entails when Jeremy himself voted against the Labour leadership over 400 times and with the Conservatives 7 times?
Why should people accept Jeremy and all that entails when Jeremy himself voted against the Labour leadership over 400 times and with the Conservatives 7 times?
That's a non sequitur. If they want a Labour govt, that's what they should work towards.
JC may or may not have voted against the leadership - that is not the same thing as criticising the leadership for doing what they themselves have recently advocated, as in the Margaret Hodge example quoted above.
when Jeremy himself voted against the Labour leadership over 400 times
Yawn. I don't think anyone, let alone JC wants to shut down debate on policy. In fact as far as I can see through his party reforms to give the membership more influence he's trying to increase debate. They do however have to accept the result of a fair and democratic leadership election. I can't recall JC or any of the other lefties ever suggesting that Blair or Brown weren't the rightfully elected leaders of the party.
There’s an easy way for it to stop, and that’s for the losers to admit they lost, accept that JC is the leader, and to do their jobs of campaigning for a labour govt.
False Dichotomy. They can find political roles away from the HoC (eg Mayor Of Manchester), leave the HoC all together or form a new party. There are more than two options here. I don't think there's any suggestion that Labour moderates don't accept they've lost. All their actions have demonstrated clearly that they understood the situation - you don't resign in dribs and drabs over a couple of days unless you know you're in an existential fight. they knew, and they knew when they'd lost.
Maybe having a pop at the leadership gains a bit more publicity for those considering establishing a new party, so it's not necessarily wasted effort. Or maybe some people are just venting a bit of steam before they get deselected.
I can’t recall JC or any of the other lefties ever suggesting that Blair or Brown weren’t the rightfully elected leaders of the party.
Can you cite someone in the Parliamentary Labour Party who has said JC wasn't the rightfully elected leaders of the party? I'd be interested in seeing their logic.
If they want a Labour govt, that’s what they should work towards.
So when Jeremy voted with the Conservatives he was working towards a Labour government then?
And lets not forget Momentums leaders stance on MPs that vote for the Tories....
False Dichotomy.
The false dichotomy is that they can't support the party and work towards it's success, without supporting Corbyn personally, or 'joining the HoC' as you hyperbolically put it. Corbyn et al always opposed Blair, but they never worked against the broader aims of the party which is what the likes of Hodge et al are currently doing.
‘joining the HoC’ as you hyperbolically put it.
I didn't say joining the HoC, I said leaving and how is leaving the HoC hyperbole?
The false dichotomy is that they can’t support the party and work towards it’s success
How is "they can’t support the party and work towards it’s success" a false dichotomy?
CBA with pedantry. You know exactly what we're debating. You're suggesting that the labour party has become a cult of personality around JC. I'm suggesting that's not the case. Quite frankly this obsession with JC is ridiculous, on both sides. I have no doubt he probably finds it quite embarrassing, uncomfortable and not a little inconvenient seeing as he was probably looking forward to a stress free retirement. The sooner they get on with reforming the party and perhaps winning an election, the sooner everyone can move on and we can get back to normal.
May should be dreading PMQ’s with everything as it stands. Her main policies, such as they are, are in free fall, her party is a total shambles, at war with itself, all while economic Armageddon looms larger and larger.
As it is, I bet she can’t wait. Easiest part of her week.
I’ll put my house on her mentioning antisemitism in the first sentence of her first answer, then repeatedly referencing it from then on.
And we all know Jezza avoids the issue of Brexit like the plague anyway.
Maybe we’ll have a few more questions about buses?
Like shooting fish in a barrel
I suspect both May and Corbyn neither dread or look forward to PMQs and regard it like most others as a pointless piece of political theatre that does very little other than to fill airtime on 24 hour news channels.
Jezza doesn’t need to fill airtime. His attempt to add a 500 word caveat before accepting the definition of antisemitism has already seen to that.
Talk about clueless?
I’ve got Items of furniture with sharper political instincts
Jezza doesn’t need to fill airtime. His attempt to add a 500 word caveat before accepting the definition of antisemitism has already seem to that.
Yeah - that freedom of speech - who needs it, eh?
voted with the Conservatives he was working towards a Labour government then?
Well first of all you need to show he was voting with the tories eg show that he was voting against the whip. Then lets take a look at each in turn and see whether it was actually helping the tories. Since four of those named seem to be the new labour control freakery I would doubt it. The other three are more messy.
Worth remembering out of those 400 its only 7 listed as where he voted with the majority of tories against the majority of Labour. Says something about the rest doesnt it?
When was he in the press launching attack after attack on Blair and demanding his resignation.
I’ve got Items of furniture with sharper political instincts
He's a conviction politician. I suspect his political instincts tell him that's his main asset, so he should demonstrate it at every opportunity. It won him the leadership against massive odds, it also overturned predictions of a tory landslide and a 20 point poll deficit. The evidence would suggest his political instincts are much more astute than those of his opponents.
voted with the Conservatives he was working towards a Labour government then?
There's a difference between voting for what you believe to be right, even if it happens to be with the Tories, and acting against your own party even though you don't actually believe what you say.
I suspect both May and Corbyn neither dread or look forward to PMQs and regard it like most others as a pointless piece of political theatre that does very little other than to fill airtime on 24 hour news channels.
Agree, it should be scrapped. Scripted responses to questions whose answer usually revolves around "well look what happened when Labour were in power" If I was Labour leader I would make a stand against it all together and not ask any questions as I would see it as just wasting my time.
I would also claim fake news on the anti semite stuff and move on (mainly because a lot of it is). Politics is different now and you need to play that to your advantage.
You’re suggesting that the labour party has become a cult of personality around JC.
I'm not going to continue to discuss this with you for the obvious reasons, but I'm not going to let you get away with this. I have never suggested the labour party is a cult of personality around JC and I certainly don't think it. Christ, both Dianne Abbot and John McDonnell have far more charisma. JC as a personality is irrelevant to these events, once they had the leadership *anyone* from Corbyn's wing of the party would have achieved the same. Which isn't to deny him the credit or the blame (depending on your perspective) or to suggest he's done a bad job - he's achieved all his goals.
Talk about clueless?
Go on then. Explain why he is clueless. After all the Home Office Select Committee expressed concern about some of the examples and wanted caveats putting in place. The bloke who drafted it expressed concerns to the US congress about how it was being used to shut down free speech.
Its an bad document which does need caveats.
Agree, it should be scrapped.
+1
Someone asking unanswerable questions of someone adept in not answering questions.
A national embarrassment, always was. Blair was spot on to reduce it to one session a week, it should be 0 sessions.
I know how much everyone looks forward to my photos...
This one of Newsnight's Emily Maitlis and the lord of darkness himself, Peter Mandelson at a Spectator event should liven the debate a bit:
Of course, being as it was taken back in 2010, it could be dismissed as ancient history; but there again, so could Mandelson's key role in Tony Blair's rise to power, beginning in the 1980s, which still has impact today...
First question from a Tory MP to the PM was about guess what?
Go on.... have a wild stab?
Go on…. have a wild stab?
Why she lied about claiming the tories had included the IHRA definition and examples in their own code of conduct when they hadnt?
Its odd all those Hodge and co dont bother asking about that. Its almost like there is some other motive.
Binners what did JC ask his questions about?
I think this is where binners goes quiet and sucks his thumb for a bit.
Don’t worry though, he’ll soon be back bleating about the sixth form or such like.
Corbyn killed May on Brexit today, she had no answers, even her attempts at mentioning AS fell flat
brexit is a millstone for the tories
unfortunately its been overshadowed by the russia announcement, something corbyn looks weaker on
Not trying to catch Binners out particularly, just trying to demonstrate that the hysteria generated from both sides about Corbyn, and the mundane boring reality are very far apart. I have no idea why a man with less charisma than a wet sock inspires such passion. I suppose it's got to be better than a grandstanding narcissist being the next potential PM.
Its odd how all these campaigners arent ranting and raving about how other parties havent adopted it.
Note how the May lied about adopting it and even now its a tad vague. The definition after all is what Labour adopted ages back. It is the examples which are the problem.
Quote Binners
"I’ve got Items of furniture with sharper political instincts"
You really should chat to your furniture more because you have no clue! Yvette Cooper FFS!
Well Binners, the usually hostile Guardian reckons that he ran rings round May at PMQs.
Your assessment is as accurate as your predictions at the last general election.
Good morning nice to see you again thanks for coming.
How very dull.cranberry how's May doing with Europe?
Like Steve Bell but not funny or insightful.
What's up with Chukka? Presumably he can't stand Boris Johnson robbing him of the limelight? Yesterday he was calling labour members dogs, today he's saying the party is institutionally racist. Tomorrow I presume he'll be accusing Corbyn of being a suicide bomber? And yet he has the cheek to complain when labour members express their displeasure at their MPs working against the party's interests.
Like Steve Bell
Agreed.
not funny or insightful.
Agreed.
Hang on, how are these two things connected? That's not his work.
What’s up with Chukka?
Fighting for his place in the party, and for the interests of it… as he sees it… much like Corbyn has always done.
Fighting for his place in the party, and for the interests of it
By insulting the members and calling it racist. He has a funny way of going about it.
Chukka seems to always be preparing for a leadership challenge yet forgetting that last time he ran, he pulled out after 3 days because of "scrutiny", then threw his enormous weight behind a candidate that got 4% of votes.
And he’s a blairite/moderate. And there is no momentum behind those kind of views. Purge ‘em...
Purge ‘em…
And yet he's still there. Either they're not very good at purging, or the purge is a paranoid fantasy of people who can't cope with the fact that the majority of the party disagree with them.
Do they moan about it a lot?’ The members who can’t accept the result of the vote(s)?
What’s up with Chukka? Presumably he can’t stand Boris Johnson robbing him of the limelight?
This plus lots - he is another pea from the same pod - me, me me - to hell with the country, or the party come to that.
What’s up with Chukka? Presumably he can’t stand Boris Johnson robbing him of the limelight?
This plus lots – he is another pea from the same pod – me, me me – to hell with the country, or the party come to that.
He appears to have support of those that voted for him, with an enviable majority of 68.5%, so he appeals to those he represents!
But still, best not disagree with Momentums Corbyn inspired Labour if you want to keep your job.
He appears to have support of those that voted for him, with an enviable majority of 68.5%, so he appeals to those he represents!
Did they vote for him, or for Labour?
But still, best not disagree with Momentums Corbyn inspired Labour if you want to keep your job.
Or best not fiddle your expenses, take money from Israel, or concoct fake antisemitic incidents.
By insulting the members and calling it racist.
Who did he call dogs, it's a fairly.common thing when somebody has unleashed their attack dogs (common phrase) on people..i thought JM was just learning to copy the Jewish lobby
Did they vote for him, or for Labour?
Or Momentum?
Or Momentum?
Unlikely since Momentum was not on the ballot paper.