Lab grown meat approved for sale. (USA)

The chicken you eat likely only hatched 6 weeks before slaughter - what has it done with its life other than grow? ‘Growth’ is pretty much its only job

More appealing than having an animal slaughtered after being kept in dire conditions for you to eat

Can't be anything but a good thing. We need to do everything and anything to stop people across the world eating meat.

Got to better for the environment hasn't it?

I can’t help but think I’d be eating a ‘growth’ which I find quite unappealing.

It's just some chemicals that have been tricked into forming proteins. An animal or plant is basically just some chemicals that have been tricked into forming proteins.  If lab grown "meat" is nutritious and palatable, I'd have no problem eating it.

it'll be interesting to see over time whether they can produce the larger structures of things like steaks, rather than "processed" meat, which I imagine the first steps will be.

I doubt Bill Gates is in this for the profit, given he gives most of his cash away.

My local vegan restaurant does sell vegan ‘steak’ haven’t tried it yet as since turning veggie the sight of steak turns my stomach (where as I always used to love it)

Got to better for the environment hasn’t it?

It's probably not as simple as that. I think this is a positive development, but just assuming that it's automatically better is too simplistic.

I think once we all get used to it, it will feel far more appetising than an actual animal that lived a grim existence in a world full of disease, poo, and industrial farming methods and then being butchered in a bloody mess.

If they can scale it up to bring costs down, "clean meat" will quickly become the norm.

Probably better than American meat anyway given their poor standards. I bet it’s not as tasty as good reared animal though.

Discussed this with a mate recently. He made the point that soon meat eaters will be eating this without realising. Burgers/sausages have a lot of non meat stuff in them already. If non-animal meat is cheaper than real meat food manufacturers will soon start topping up with this. Remember it wasn’t long ago they were merrily putting bits of horse into lasagne etc.

*obviously subject to when it becomes legal.

It’s probably not as simple as that. I think this is a positive development, but just assuming that it’s automatically better is too simplistic.

I'd be interested to see how it compares to the current crop of meet substitutes made from soy flour, mycelium and wheat gluten. But I can't imagine that this being done at any sort of industrial scale is is anything but orders of magnitude better than livestock farming.

I don’t know how palatable I find it. I can’t help but think I’d be eating a ‘growth’ which I find quite unappealing.

Considering the alternative was a living sentient creature it's an odd thing to be squeamish about.

I'm happy enough eating meat but if there's a good alternative I'll go for it, I'd like to reduce the cruelty and the environmental sides but I'll be honest, only if the cost to me gets smaller. Most alternative products I've tried have been either disappointing or expensive or both though. TBH the meat analogs still just don't seem that good, most times I'd rather go with a trad vege alternative, but it's the price that really stops me. I'm not picky about meat after all, a lot of what I cook is boggo supermarket chicken, stuff like that got to be the easiest to fake presumably? More homogenous, less about texture or exact methods of cooking.

But it's got to be price competitive and flavour competitive. Also if it'd stop intruding into the Free From section, that'd be nice, but it seems like for a lot of supermarkets meat free goes in the free from bit and that means that the gluten and milk free selection shrinks, so I take that kinda personally. If it's really competing with meat it should be going in the meat section and reducing that but a lot of shops' shelving behaviour suggests it's not really.

lotto
Free Member

One of the two start up companies involves Bill Gates who is one of the largest farmland owners in the US. Reports suggest this owned land is not used for farming though.

Not sure what you mean about Gates? He's invested in a lot of farmland but most of it is worked normally, and while he's been called the biggest private farmland owner that's only because the big owners are corporate- he owns something like .04% of all US farmland. Were you suggesting that he's creating a lab-grown market by not farming and reducing supply? Definitely not happening. TBH there seems to be quite a lot of agendas involved with the discussion of this stuff.

Bring it on. I love meat and have managed, like many others, to both hate the process of getting it to my plate whilst also enjoying it as a food.

If I can have chicken, lamb and beef from a lab, which is just cleverly engineered proteins, without death and pain and suffering then I'm all for it.

If we could reduce the global land use from rearing animals and growing their food by even a little bit then the knock-on benefits to nature, indigenous peoples and reducing carbon emissions could be massive.

Can’t be anything but a good thing. We need to do everything and anything to stop people across the world eating meat.

oddly, quorn isn’t available in north america. the meatless “meat” products here at all soya based.

Not sure what you mean about Gates? He’s invested in a lot of farmland but most of it is worked normally, and while he’s been called the biggest private farmland owner that’s only because the big owners are corporate- he owns something like .04% of all US farmland. Were you suggesting that he’s creating a lab-grown market by not farming and reducing supply? Definitely not happening. TBH there seems to be quite a lot of agendas involved with the discussion of this stuff.

wanted to say something similar, but northwind says it better

oddly, quorn isn’t available in north america. the meatless “meat” products here at all soya based.

To be fair the only thing quorn has going for it is protein per calorie. It's neither particularly tasty or nutrient dense. Most other products are 'better' in that they taste better and you only need to eat about half the weight (and a fraction of the volume as Quorn really soaks up moisture) but are higher in fats and usually made from a mix of soy flour and carbs.

Apart from the nuggets. Quorn nuggets are better than chicken.

Unless the lab meat developers can create a lobbying group larger and better funded than the meat farmers, then I unfortunately suspect this will remain fairly niche.

I think it's a good thing, assuming the envirinmental impact is less or can be less than rearing animals for meat.

As a fully signed up vegan I'd give it a try as I do miss meat. My drivers were the environmental impact of meat and animal welfare. Only a few months ago a dariy farm in the US exploded killing 18,000 cows, https://www.brusselstimes.com/456560/us-dairy-farm-explosion-kills-18000-cows. To my mind American farms seem more like factories and 18,000 cows inside just seems insane.

Unless the lab meat developers can create a lobbying group larger and better funded than the meat farmers, then I unfortunately suspect this will remain fairly niche.

With Bill Gates bacnkrolling it they may stand a chance. Interestingly, well to me anyway, with the massive focus and noise on meat alternatives over the last two years, it seems it may be taking a bit of a downturn. https://www.nrn.com/quick-service/mcdonald-s-ends-mcplant-test-us-markets

More appealing than having an animal slaughtered after being kept in dire conditions for you to eat

Unfortunately the process is not slaughter free. An animal serum, a blend of growth-inducing proteins usually made from the blood of animals is required. The most popular is foetal bovine serum (FBS), a mixture harvested from the blood of foetuses excised from pregnant cows slaughtered in the dairy or meat industries.

Due to the expense of this serum and the R&D involved around eliminating the use of it, the product is at the moment expensive and will initially be served in the restaurant sector. It is hoped that by 2028 manufacturing issues will be resolved and economy by scale can be employed to get products to supermarkets etc. Initially it is chicken that will be produced.

I can’t help but think I’d be eating a ‘growth’ which I find quite unappealing.

No offence intended, and I appreciate I might be slightly biased here, but I find this to be a bizarre stance. You find the lab-grown concept unappealing but killing and carving up field-grown actual animals is om nom nom?

Meat eaters like eating meat, that's why they do it and I get that. Each to their own and all. But if we can accurately replicate say a sirloin steak from actual meat without having to chop lumps out Bessie, Larry and Percy, that has to be a step in the right direction surely?

it wasn’t long ago they were merrily putting bits of horse into lasagne etc.

How honest they were being I don't know, but the claim was accidental contamination rather than intentional fraud.

TBH I don't see what the problem is anyway (aside from Passing Off). Why would you chow down on cow and be aghast at eating horse?

I really want this to work because it would resolve a lot of animal welfare issues. I wonder if it will ever be vegan?

if it’d stop intruding into the Free From section, that’d be nice

I'm with you here, this irritates the crap out me. Back when I went veggie it was fairly unusual and any concessions at all were welcome, but it almost feels like passive-aggressive othering / trolling now. I want to buy a pizza without meat, why TF is it not in the "pizza" section? You wouldn't put a 12" pollo in the chicken aisle. And it's not even like they're consistent, the gluten-free gravy is in with the regular gravy.

TBH there seems to be quite a lot of agendas involved

I winced at the mention of Bill Gates. I don't quite understand what he's done to become a threat to swiveleyezation but he does seem to have attracted the ire of a lot of conspiracy theory nutjobs.

oddly, quorn isn’t available in north america. the meatless “meat” products here at all soya based.

Well, that's just not true, the US has had Quorn for years. They often market it as a low-fat product rather than pushing the veggie/vegan aspect.

I wonder if it will ever be vegan?

That's a really interesting question.

I'm probably an outlier in so far as I'm not veggie for welfare reasons but rather because I find it revolting. For that reason, I'm out.

Many vegans though are thus because of welfare, it's a lifestyle choice that goes beyond diet and into animal-free clothing and all other products. I suspect that a good number might still have an issue with the "starter" as @lotto explained. But we're rather veering then into the anti-vax circle of the Venn diagram.

But I can’t imagine that this being done at any sort of industrial scale is is anything but orders of magnitude better than livestock farming.

I think thats a little optimistic - its roughly 10 kilos of veg to make 1 kg of meat so veg is only one order of magnitude better than animal farming

they have to get the components for making this lab grown meat from somewhere ( plants?) and surely its pretty energy intensive

Can’t be anything but a good thing.

😂😂😂

but just assuming that it’s automatically better is too simplistic.

it seems it has the potential to be better just in terms of energy input to food output. In an animal reared for slaughter there’ll be a proportion of resource input - food, heat, space, infrastructure, transport- that is being used to create beaks, sinew, claws, hooves, brains, intestines, feathers, and so on that we then don’t eat.

by weight only about 40% of a cow ends up on someone’s plate for instance so more than half the space, time  and resources spent to put a steak on your plate have gone to waste.

We also place high value on the leanest cuts so that poorer people are condemned to live less healthy lives- which is ultimately a cost to everyone.

So growing only the bits we actually want without the waste, seems to have a lot of potential wins - fewer resources in, better health and equality out….. maybe.

I’m sure we’re capable of finding a way to **** it all up.

I want to buy a pizza without meat, why TF is it not in the “pizza” section?

****ing Asda. I buy cow milk and I have to go to the other end of the shop to buy a litre of oat milk for my wife..what the ****?

I wonder if it will ever be vegan?

No it will never be able to be marketed as vegetarian or vegan. It is manufactured from growing cells taken from real animals cultivated in a 'broth' of animal derived fluid.

No offence intended, and I appreciate I might be slightly biased here, but I find this to be a bizarre stance. You find the lab-grown concept unappealing but killing and carving up field-grown actual animals is om nom nom?

No offence taken. Meat production at the moment besides the scale at which humans are doing it and regrettably abhorrent practices of the less scrupulous producers is the way in which meat has always been sought. You have to kill an animal to obtain it. This is the way it is. Looking at images of the factories/laboratories that have been built to accommodate this new method to seems to me very, well Orwellian almost. Futuristic.

I would have thought that most people on first consumption would be a little apprehensive thinking on how far human food production has evolved. Imagine informing a 19th century person that in a few generations the steak in front of them will be grown. Simply mind-blowing. That's what I was trying to communicate with the term growth. It simply blows my mind that we can grow a 16oz  Aberdeen Angus sirloin from a few cells and a broth.

Maybe we will end up like the sci-fi movies of old where a pill was a whole roast dinner, or the replicators in Star Trek.

😂😂😂

Yes hilarious. If you had any idea just how catastrophically damaging the meat industry is you wouldn’t be laughing.

* Asda. I buy cow milk and I have to go to the other end of the shop to buy a litre of oat milk for my wife..what the *?

I suppose there is a logic to putting like with like. Eg, if you can't eat (say) gluten then putting all the GF stuff in the same place is probably convenient. But it just seems so... inconsistent and random.

You have to kill an animal to obtain it. This is the way it is.

Well, yes. Imagine if you didn't. Futuristic indeed.

(sorry, I didn't connect that you were the OP, I'm bad at that)

We need to do everything and anything to stop people across the world eating meat.

So why is growing it in a lab helpful?

IMO it just seems to reinforce the belief that meat is somehow necessary and that we can't manage without it.

Just stop eating it, don't pissabout growing it in a laboratory.

I want to buy a pizza without meat, why TF is it not in the “pizza” section?

Possibly because some people don't like meat-free products to be among meat products.

Probably the same reason that cow's milk is kept separately.

People can be funny about stuff like that.

If you find the idea of eating lab meat unpalatable then there's a simple solution.... Don't eat it.

My partner has been veggie from the age of 14. Been together for 21 years now (she'd been before for at least five years before we got together before you start) and for the last 15 years or so I've not eaten meat at home other than the occasional salami or lump of Tirolean Speck whilst quaffing Red wine.

I haven't (knowingly) eaten chicken for years and years.

Eat very little fish as there's not much fresh fish on the northern periphery of the alps.

Still enjoy a steak.

Just eat less meat.

Some crazy statistic I heard on a podcast recently was ~60% of food grown in Europe goes to feed animals, not humans.... That's just f-in stupid.

First Google hit...

The analysis found that in, 2018/2019, 62% of all cereal crops were used to feed animals and 12% used in industry and as biofuel, with only 23% going to feed people. A striking 88% of soy and 53% of protein-rich pulses were also used for animal feed.

https://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/nature-food/45159/majority-of-european-crops-feeding-animals-and-cars-not-people/

GF's dad is Persian. I'm their culture eating only vegetables is a sign of being poor. He doesn't understand why his daughter would choose to shun meat.

I mean, his cooking is bloody awesome, but there are some dishes where we have replaced the minced meat with minced/mashed lentils and even he couldn't tell the difference. (Kabab... Minced meat/lentils with potatoes, onions and a shed load of spices made into patties and fried with breadcrumbs.)

Just make sure the lentils are thoroughly cooked...

Oh, and the GF doesn't eat any meat substitute type stuff. No Quorn, Tofu, soya lookalikes. Just veg. Only stuff we use from a jar is the tomato concentrate or the very occasional jar of pesto (occasional as we very, very rarely eat pasta or any other wheat based foods, including bread, for that matter... Although I do drink a fair bit of Weißbier).

I wonder if it will ever be vegan?

Does it have a spinal chord / nervous system  or invlve anything with a spinal chord/ nervous system - thats how my vegan pal defined it when pushed

IMO it just seems to reinforce the belief that meat is somehow necessary and that we can’t manage without it.

Just stop eating it, don’t pissabout growing it in a laboratory.

I have a lot of sympathy with this.

 I buy cow milk and I have to go to the other end of the shop to buy a litre of oat milk <span style="color: #ff0000;">water</span> for my wife..what the ****?

Oats or almonds..... Still incredibly water intensive and still not milk.

 It simply blows my mind that we can grow a 16oz Aberdeen Angus sirloin from a few cells and a broth.

Think more Frankfurter sausage than sirloin steak.

This is only going to replace the already highly processed crap that either poor folks or the "I'm vegetarian but want to eat something that reminds me of the old times", not the 26€ sirloin.

I'm hoping to try the SG lab grown meat in about a months' time.

The other option is eating processed locust in the future.

Insects make more sense, tbf.

Mrs dB is reading up on ultra processed foods at the mo, it's bloody terrifying the crap we already accept into our bodies, so for that alone I'm out.

IMO it just seems to reinforce the belief that meat is somehow necessary and that we can’t manage without it.

Just stop eating it, don’t pissabout growing it in a laboratory.

+1 If you don't want to eat meat, don't. What's with this idea of producing stuff which "simulates" meat but isn't?

So why is growing it in a lab helpful?
...
Just stop eating it, don’t pissabout growing it in a laboratory.

People eat meat because they like it, and you're not going to change that any time soon (as many many threads on here have proven). Growing it in a lab means we don't have to breed animals specifically to slaughter them.

People can be funny about stuff like that.

I'm funny about stuff like that. I'm funny about stuff like that to a point where it's a problem. I wouldn't pinch a chip off someone if their fish had been lying on top of it. But if I were in a supermarket looking for a frozen meat-free pizza I'd go to the freezers where they keep pizzas.

+1 If you don’t want to eat meat, don’t. What’s with this idea of producing stuff which “simulates” meat but isn’t?

Oh, hang on, let me get my bingo card.

Do you consider shepherd's pie to be a simulated cottage pie?

What I'm getting at Cougar is why produce (and eat) something which looks like (and is marketed as a substitute for) meat? Why not just eat veg looking like veg?

Because it's a convenient form factor for packaging protein. Why make chicken burgers when beef burgers exist?

And, as above, many people like it.

Well, that’s just not true, the US has had Quorn for years. They often market it as a low-fat product rather than pushing the veggie/vegan aspect.

a simple mistake. i couldn’t find it when i lived i the USA. not available in canada. no idea about mexico.

And and,

If no-one bought it, they wouldn't make it. So why do you care? What skin is it off your nose? Eat what you want, let everyone else do the same.

As someone who's been vegetarian since like 1991, these are unprecedented times for commonly having a smorgasbord of food options both in restaurants and in supermarkets. It's brilliant! I can go for a meal with friends without having panic attacks for two days prior. I'm going on holiday next week and I'm probably not going to starve.

You want to eat veg, eat veg. You want to eat meat, eat meat. You want to judge someone for eating vegetable protein that's been moulded into a tube shape then you can hammer my frozen vegetarian sausages up your dog.

a simple mistake. i couldn’t find it when i lived i the USA. not available in canada. no idea about mexico.

It's relatively recent in the US, like the last few years. I was pleasantly surprised. Whether it's nationwide or not I do not know.

Canada I can phone a friend.

No clue about Mexico.

not available in canada.

other funghi derived "ground meat-a-like" products are available.. typically next to the tofu

a simple mistake. i couldn’t find it when i lived i the USA. not available in canada. no idea about mexico.

There have been repeated attempts to ban Quorn in the United States as it is claimed that there are very high levels of food intolerances associated with it, and I certainly cannot eat more than a very small amount of it. I avoid the stuff.

Labelling now has to make clear that Quorn is a mold so that people are aware of what it exactly is:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/quorn-labelling-changes-mould-main-ingredient-vegetarian-mycoprotein-a7935791.html

Edit: The reason you couldn't find Quorn in the US is possibly because it might not be easily available following campaigns to have it banned. I don't think there has been similar campaigns in the UK, everyone seems to think that Quorn is fine.

quorn give some people the squits - and its disgusting stuff.

There have been repeated attempts to ban Quorn in the United States as it is claimed that there are very high levels of food intolerances associated with it

"claimed" and "associated," or "proven"?

Not all Quorn products are vegan, some contain egg which is an allergen.

Labelling now has to make clear that Quorn is a mold so that people are aware of what it exactly is:

It's a mycoprotein so it's a "mo(u)ld" in much the same way that yeast or mushrooms are.

quorn give some people the squits – and its disgusting stuff.

I like it and peanuts kill some people to death.

what has it done with its life other than grow?

What are it's options ?.

A short lived career in television ?.

a simple mistake. i couldn’t find it when i lived i the USA. not available in canada. no idea about mexico.

Yep if we want it we have to pop over the boarder to the states, it's not classed as a food here, in Canada. I don't mind it, Mrs Andeh can't eat beef, and lamb is hard come by here, so it fills the gap. Just don't overcook it and put it in something which does actually taste of something. A bowl of plain, fried Quorn would not be appetizing.

Lab-grown meat makes sense to me, even if it is just a stop gap. Too many people, too many like the taste of meat, not enough farm land to feed us all. Obviously, just not eating meat would be ideal, but it's hard and societal/systemic changes take time.

Out of interest, would any of our resident vegan/vegetarians eat lab-grown meat?

Canada I can phone a friend.

My Canadian friend confirmed that it's not something she sees in stores.

Just don’t overcook it and put it in something which does actually taste of something. A bowl of plain, fried Quorn would not be appetizing.

Yup. The biggest mistake people make with Quorn mince is treating it like beef mince. If you throw it in say a chilli and boil it for an hour you'll end up with slurry.

Would a bowl of plain, fried meat be appetizing? That seems odd.

Out of interest, would any of our resident vegan/vegetarians eat lab-grown meat?

I wouldn't, for reasons I explained earlier. But I'm probably atypical.

Would a bowl of plain, fried meat be appetizing? That seems odd.

Ha! I guess not, though a burger is kind of just that.

The Impossible burgers, and the like, freak me out a bit. It seems a bit perverse, making them "bleed".

Is meat bleeding not a bit perverse? It's euphemistically just "juice" in both cases.

As I've stated many times, I'm not one to criticise people for eating meat. But the loops some will jump through to justify it or to rag on those who don't is just wild. Yet the problem is always "preachy vegans."

Some people like it. That's fine. Others don't, that's fine too. Yell if you're ever in East Lancs, I'll make you a world class hot dog.

I've stopped eating meat for medical reasons,  but I love meat! Some fake meat fill that void for me, and I assume other that give up meat for ethical reason still might like the 'taste' or texture experience.

I need to start finding more recipes for none fake meat stuff as I'm probably eating too much ultra processed food at the moment.

Mushroom, paneer and spinach curry is great though, and coronation chickpea is a great sandwich filler.

@Cougar - I'd like that hot dog recipe please??

Is meat bleeding not a bit perverse?

No, that's how animals work.

Do you consider shepherd’s pie to be a simulated cottage pie?

No as they are two different dishes.

This was written a couple of years ago and I don't know much about the site itself but https://thecounter.org/lab-grown-cultivated-meat-cost-at-scale/ seemed to list off a number of reasons why lab grown meat can't scale. Does anyone more knowledgable than me about this stuff (i.e. have any knowledge about it) have any views?