[Closed] Kitchen fitters/makers - Tell me if I'm way off the mark with a quote

I know nothing about it mate, but that sounds bloody good value to me! 🙂

Bear in mind he is providing materials AND his team are fitting it. I would literally just be charging for making time.

What PP said. I'd bite your hands off at that price!

are you happy with the price, and can you do it in your predicted time scale.

if yes and yes, jobs a good un innit... 😀

If it's time only then maybe it's OK but if it's fixed cost build some fat/contingency in as you've every right to protect yourself on a fixed-price job. I know nowt about joinery and am assuming your time estimates are based on experience. Does seem like good value though.

Yeah, I mean obviously I want/need the money, but I didn't want to quote so high as he'd say no. He is testing me 😕
He even said this... 8)

Pretty cheap also what about your workshop costs etc.
Looks like your trying to copy a Christian kitchen too.

without being rude I have no idea of the quality of your workmanship
but your quote is very cheap indeed.

I have my own Bespoke furniture company so your about £ 1,500 out of pocket
in labour cost, and will take you longer than time you have quoted

Love the 604mm vs 605mm precision measurements 🙂

Firstly that looks like a Clive Christian replica in the photo, I used to Sub contract for them, for a real "Christians" version of what he wants you'd be talking a minimum £15000 fitted and painted, he's obviously trying to get it cheaper but I wouldn't do it for any less than £1500 to be honest, especially if your doing a finger jointed oak work top.

You may be doing it in between your day job but that's not the point, your making bespoke furniture and that doesn't come cheep!

supply of a similar kitchen at b+q or ikea would be 2000 shirley? that would be painted tho and include worktops...but it is handmade... swings and roundabouts innit. one thing tho, if you teach it you will know that everything always takes twice as long as you think, £900 for 80 hours work? let us know how you get on, eh?

What Ton said

If your time estimate is realistic then you should be fine.
I'd add a bit on for contingency though and find out when he proposes to pay.

Pretty cheap also what about your workshop costs etc.
Looks like your trying to copy a Christian kitchen too.

with out being rude I have no idea of the quality of your workmanship
but your quote is very cheap indeed.

I have my own Bespoke furniture company so your about £ 1,500 out of pocket
and will take you longer than time you have quoted

My workshop costs are sort of non-existent. I work in a college and they allow me to do some of my own stuff in the evenings so long as I don't take the mick(this may be taking the mick a bit 😀 )
Not sure if he is copying anything. That's quite a common style I believe. Those are just one of several 'style' shots he sent me for ideas as to what he's after.

Quality of my work is excellent, to blow my own trumpet. Degree level in furniture design/craftsmanship along with many years experience making one-off 'fine furniture'.

Yeah I think you're right about it taking me longer than I've said. I really need the money to be honest and so need the job, but it's very difficult to know if you're pitching too low/high when you have no experience of that sector...

Thanks for the comments.

You're pitching too low. What sort of car does he drive?

But if you need the cash then go for it - as long as you get 50% up front

It's more common now, but its defo a Christians copy and trust me they don't come cheap, my average fits were around £100,000.00 😯

Not sure if he is copying anything. That's quite a common style I believe. Those are just one of several 'style' shots he sent me for ideas as to what he's after.

Believe me it is, the breakfront detail on the work top is one followed by the moulded edge
and then you have the Corbel decoration on the right hand side.

[A Christian Kitchen will be roughly the same price as an Smallbone or Mark Wilkinson

Yeah I think you're right about it taking me longer than I've said. I really need the money to be honest and so need the job, but it's very difficult to know if you're pitching too low/high when you have no experience of that sector...

Not knocking you but only answering your question, and also knowing what the guy is try to achieve for very little outlay. So i rather you get the monies you deserve for your skill rate/craftsmanship.

Believe me it is, the breakfront detail on the work top is one followed by the moulded edge
and then you have the Corbel decoration on the right hand side.

Yeah, he doesn't want an exact copy, just giving me an idea of the sort of quality he is after more like. None of those fancy-schmancy supports for instance. I did once have a job making similar kitchens in about 1997 but it's that long ago I've kind of forgotten whats involved...

Thanks for the advice.

Not many cabinets there,yes should easily be made in 40 (1) hrs mate...yes id be happy to make for about 1k cash....nice 1.... private jobs help wit bike upgrades eh!!! :).... do it!

[i]So far, I have based my rate on £22.50 an hour and estimated around 41 hours to complete, bringing the cost to about £925.

Obviously that is a big amount of cash, but, it's a big amount of time and hassle and late evenings.
[/i]

Its not a big amount of cash in bespoke kitchen terms, in fact the chap I got some granite from said he'd just supplied a piece only 300mm wide and joined it to an existing worktop. The 300mm unit had cost £1000!

But, if its only your time then its £1000 GROSS you'll have. If you pay tax/NI and it takes you 20% longer, you'll be working for about £10 per hour...

I'd double the quote.

Seems very cheap - I had some custom wardrobes made, they came it at £1000 each....

I'd put the dish washer next to the sink though.

Thanks all, looking like I may be underselling myself a bit. Wouldn't be the first time.... Hate the dirty business of asking for money 😕

If you worked it out to £950 I would of quoted £1250 then if it workd out cheaper customer happy

I'd double the price.

The dirty business of money .... Hmmmm

Knows that he`ll be getting a bargain so dont be afraid to pitch it up a bit. After all, hes asking you to it because he cant - dont sell yourself short son !!

As you are using someone else's machinery, there's no cost to you, but be careful. This is the sort of thing which cold raise eyebrows and you could end up in trouble. It's your call to work out what the risk is on that.

In terms of time, double it and add 10% as we are all hopeless optimists. That's what I always find when estimating jobs like this (done a lot of joinery work, both for myself and commercially).

Christians make nice fronts on bog standard chipboard carcasses. Well that's what it looked like when I scrutinised their showroom examples.

I was set to build my own Christian copy kitchen as I'd got all the machinery and done the rest of the house, but mother in law butted in on the situation, saying her daughter should have a new kitchen installed before the arrival of our second child. As she was paying, I let them get on with it, but we ended up with £10500 worth of troublesome mediocre blandness. It's now ready for the skip.

My bespoke job would have been vastly better and refinishing easy because hand painting is the accepted norm for top end kitchens like the one shown in Christians.

PS, tell your customer that he should use built in appliances so you can fit matching panels. If not, it will look really crxp with the white goods juxtaposition! He may as well buy cheap flatpack stuff if the appliances aren't hidden.

As others have said, what you're proposing to quote isn't much when you're talking about bespoke kitchens. And compared to the other costs he'll have it will be small.

I'd quote £1,500 and then charge him £1,450. Make him feel he got a good deal.

tell your customer that he should use built in appliances

Built in washing machine = it'll all fall apart in a few weeks.

925... I ll half a dozen tomorrow

far far too cheap, as most have said double that and you d be alright. 22.50 is 45 doubled up take from that the materials that you WILL have to purchase and add the time it will really take you to make.. running around etc etc will give you an honest 30ph

Please dont do great work ofr 22.50 cos 925 is NOT a lot of money

Never undersell yourself.

That is mighty cheap for what you are producing. I'd be wanting more and that is during normal hours. For the inconvenience of working evenings I'd be asking for a lot more...

Have you factored in time for laying out and planning, not just cutting, routing, etc?

Yeah tried to, but that's the trouble. I'm fairly experienced making all sorts of stuff, but not so experienced in remembering how long it took me... 😳

I did try to factor in some marking out time etc, but it's difficult.

The guy in his advert said that he had several projects like this to do(this one being a utility room in a posh house) but that he wasn't all that pushed on time and so it might suit someone doing it as more of a hobby than an actual job.

In other words, he wants it cheaper...
I don't want to put him off, but then obviously I am not doing myself or my peers any favours by underselling the skills which took me years and years to build up...

I would expect to pay closer to 2-4k for a bespoke kitchen like that. He's on a winner if you do it for a grand even with him supplying materials.

All seems very very cheap. I've had a lot of bespoke furniture made in my house and the cheapest item was a desk, without drawers, which was £750 (solid ash with inlaid ebony trim). Way, way simpler than a kitchen, but almost the same cost as your suggesting!

NB The guy who made it all isn't rich by any means, bespoke furniture just takes a lot of time to make and fit.

NB The guy who made it all isn't rich by any means, bespoke furniture just takes a lot of time to make and fit.

Tell me about it... 🙄

Whatever price you decide to go with will be used as a base-line.
If hes good to his word and puts more work your way expect this project to be a guide to future pricing .... 😉

.... Dont sell yourself short.

I would bite your hand off at that price!

My BIL does similar work he said he would start at £1900 if it wasn't his own workshop costs. You can always come down a bit. You know your works good so give your quote.

Re, not liking to ask for money: I'm the same but means must. From small stuff like £50 to £5k contracts I don't like it but its just what has to be done.

Don't be shy about asking for more.

He may just say yes without batting an eyelid.
He may inhale deeply, grump about it and then still say yes because he knows it is still a bargain.

Your hourly rate seems a bit low to me I would have thought £30 was more realistic. Also if he offers you more work will you still be able to use the college machinery going forward? I think you need to factor in a cost for this to protect yourself with future deals - say £80 per day (I don't know what the actual effective rate should be if you had to take account the cost of the equipment/workshop you would need)

Always remember
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadte r's_law]Hofstadter's law[/url]

Edit: lost abitlity to get link to work

[quote=Wiki said]Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law

😀

60 to 80 hours for that one I reckon; drawers take time to make and mdf isn't the best for them.

No, all drawers would be solid with router-cut dovetails.
Thanks all. Lots of help there.

+1 this is way too cheap. Agree you should double your hours and add contingency. You will still be way cheaper than the other options.
Good luck

MDF-- you not machining it are you ?

£30 minimum-- and add a few hours for contingency--you should quote him at least £2300

Also as said, factor in tax/NI just in case...

I think that's about half price, but if you're happy him will be and that is what makes the world go round.
Going to be very tight for the washer, glad I haven't planned. It's bespoke make a bit more room ffs

Are we not approaching this from the wrong tack?

Question i) What frame do you want to buy? How much is it?
Question ii) What forks do you want to buy? How much are they?

Add the answer to Q i) and ii) and you have the answer to how much you want for making the kitchen

Simples 😀

surely the question should be 'what frame have you [u]bought[/u]?'

Way too cheap. The fact that you have access to free gear is irrelevant as no one else will and will price accordingly. Your hourly rate seems pretty low as well (as long as the work is going to be quality).

Think of it this way, the guy will be getting a 4-5K ish bespoke kitchen for £925 and some wood. Even if you doubled the labour component it would still be cheap.

Are we not approaching this from the wrong tack?

Question i) What frame do you want to buy? How much is it?
Question ii) What forks do you want to buy? How much are they?

Add the answer to Q i) and ii) and you have the answer to how much you want for making the kitchen

Simples

Ha ha! Exactly... 😀

Your hourly rate is too low - especially as you are a skilled craftsman. £45 to £50 per hour - as previously said.

If he wants you to do the kitchen, he won't run away when you give him your first price. It's time to start haggling....

So put your rate up and allow more time.

Update.
Got an email off the bloke after sending him my quote based on £25 an hour, making the total about £1600.

Basically he said he'd given it some thought and decided to go for another quote...

I thought that would happen. Must be someone doing it for a hobby or something.

Damn and blast...

I thought that would happen. Must be someone doing it for a hobby or something.

Damn and blast...

smile sweetly and wait. You would be surprised how many folks use this to drive the price down with no other actual company in place. 🙂

Now you know what others think is the going rate, you can have a little sideline making custom bespoke furniture (try ebay as an initial advert/selling place).

I was interested in why I didn't get the job so emailed the bloke to ask him. The drawing above is for a utility room, the big kitchen would come later. His reply was...

The key point was about cost. I mentioned that this was a tester and that I would use this for working out the cost of the kitchen. Based on your estimate the kitchen would have cost about 45k. Also an hourly rate is not suitable for something that has no time constraint.
As a benchmark you were 600 more than the next highest quote from a professional cabinet maker who also included materials.
If you are interested I need 7 box newel posts build. If interested I can send you the spec and you can quote. These are simpler and could be easily done in a day.
Cheers

So my original estimate based on £20 an hour would probably have meant I'd have got it, my quote afterwards where I was more generous with time estimates and upped the rate to £25 an hour meant I was £600 more than an apparently professional cabinet maker...
Hmmm 😕

Dont worry about his excuses - by pitching this as a tester hed have screwed you down on future ventures - Move on mate and dont worry about it ...

His loss in my humble opinion as you seem a genuine sort of guy .. 8)

Got an email off the bloke after sending him my quote based on £25 an hour, making the total about £1600.

As a benchmark you were 600 more than the next highest quote from a professional cabinet maker who also included materials.

In the beginning:

So far, I have based my rate on £22.50 an hour and estimated around 41 hours to complete, bringing the cost to about £925.

You'd have been bang on, undercutting the other guy by £75 if you'd have ignored everyone and gone with your original thought!

STW at its best!

[i]You'd have been bang on, undercutting the other guy by £75 if you'd have ignored everyone and gone with your original thought![/i]

Except the guy he'd have undercut was also supplying materials..., so not really.

You'd have been bang on, undercutting the other guy by £75

I would say he would still have been significantly more expensive than the the other guy....

who also included materials

I want the details of this pro cabinet maker. £1k inc materials... Even if it was just mdf that is about a half to a third what I'd expect based on quotes I've had for things.

£45k would make that a seriously large kitchen on your rates.

Personally I never go for the lowest quote as I value quality / reliability over cost. I'd much rather pay more for someone to do a quality job on time than get a bargain which turns out to be a nightmare.

Except the guy he'd have undercut was also supplying materials..., so not really.

*I must read threads properly.*

Well I've never seen a customer try that one on before I'm sure 🙄
Well maybe he's asked a nice retired bloke who's doing it as a hobby..

Personally I never go for the lowest quote as I value quality / reliability over cost. I'd much rather pay more for someone to do a quality job on time than get a bargain which turns out to be a nightmare.

You'd be surprised how many don't though. Pitching quotes right is a tricky business. I'm on day 2 of a full kitchen fit at the moment with tiling and electrics that was quoted and agreed at £2300, less than I wanted but more than he wanted to pay. had a note left for me this morning on site asking "if I still expected to be finished by Friday?" How much do they think I earn? I told them at quoting stage it would be a 2 week job, no wonder he thought it sounded too much!

There is business and there is bad business. I'd wish this chap well with his "professional" cabinet maker and be thankful he went elsewhere.

I'd much rather pay more for someone to do a quality job on time than get a bargain which turns out to be a nightmare.

Did you learn that from the "first brickie" episode 😉

Yeah thanks all, some very helpful comments which have made me weigh up the value of my hard earned skills more.
Sadly I didn't get this work but as said, I would have been tied to an awful lot of faff for probably less than was right.

I do have a few other things extra to my main job to put to my Peru fund but it's a shame as this guy could have been a good contact for future work.

Oh well. Them's the breaks..

If you are interested I need 7 box newel posts build. If interested I can send you the spec and you can quote. These are simpler and could be easily done in a day.

Tell him if its that easily done in a day DIY it.

Sounds like you're better off without him.