You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Ah, that makes more sense.
For the Tesla crash someone found a similar junction and decided to see what would happen.
Not sure I would have tried that experiment myself.
The Tesla is supposed to be level 3 isn't it (ie the worst level) - so it's just an aid for the driver and not expected to prevent all crashes. It probably ought to do a lot better than that in that situation though - it doesn't seem to be impossible given the sensors available.
The Tesla is supposed to be level 3 isn’t it (ie the worst level)
No it's level 2 iirc. You could probably describe it as glorified cruise control, not in terms of what it can do, just in terms of how involved the driver has to be.
Tesla is a very good level 2.
Most of the advertising and "the internet at large" seem to think it is at least a level 3 if not 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 at the same time.
Most of the top end/premium competitors have very very similar systems. That they generally sell and advertise as level 2. And also spend a lot of engineering time and effort to stop the driver treating it as level 3. They'll have to spend an order of magnitude more to get drivers not to treat level 3 as level 4.........
(i should also mention that “threshold braking” IS important, very, very important. Studies have shown that in many cases average human drivers simply fail to press the brakes hard enough (hence various automated assistance systems that have been developed). Stop at 0.1g not 1g and you may as well not bother braking. And it matters most in the inital stages of the braking event, because your velocity (distance divided by time) is the highest. Ie you travel further per unit of time, and it’s the distance to the impact that matters and not the time to impact. (This is also why do just a few extra mph can mean a large difference in the speed you hit something)
I’ve found that left-foot braking in an automatic, having just driven a manual, is very effective at bringing a vehicle to an abrupt halt...
[i]jimjam wrote:[/i]
No it’s level 2 iirc. You could probably describe it as glorified cruise control, not in terms of what it can do, just in terms of how involved the driver has to be.
In which case it's hard to blame the system for any crash. Fundamentally all are driver error.
Which makes me wonder if the video hasn’t been doctored to make it look darker so that the bike appeared more suddenly.
Most in-car night-time footage seems to show poor lighting, I’ve watched night stage rallying, where the cars have huge arrays of high-powered spot and flood lights mounted on the fron, which from outside light the road like a football stadium, but the onboard cameras make it look like the lights on my Octavia.
In which case it’s hard to blame the system for any crash. Fundamentally all are driver error.
The message given to users is somewhat mixed though.
If you look through the Tesla page about "autopilot" it gives a very good impression of its capabilities. Even the name suggests things that it isnt. This is in comparison to other companies who offer similar capability who dont provide the same hype(as ghostlymachine says). It definitely has advantages for Tesla since they get talked about as being far beyond traditional car companies so long as people dont read the small print.
Sadly though it ends up with people overrating its capabilities. I am not sure simply stating its driver error quite captures the problem. Whilst technically true Tesla have made it all to easy for people to not properly understand its limitations. There has been at least one death due to it and this looks like a second.
I am tending towards many of these aids should actually be banned unless they can be implemented in such a way that people cant abuse them accidentally or intentionally. For example emergency braking is great but auto lane change not so much.
but the onboard cameras make it look like the lights on my Octavia.
Cameras have problems with high dynamic ranges which most night videos will be by default. There are ways to compensate so its interesting that that wasnt done. I doubt it was deliberately darkened though. No need with a bad camera choice.
You're making assumptions and in the case of the 'first' ( I guess you're referring to the car that went under the truck trailer ) all the reports show that the user was defeating the protocols intentionally repeatedly. This 'second' has yet to be investigated so I'm not sure we can ascribe the death to the car's failures yet.
all the reports show that the user was defeating the protocols intentionally repeatedly.
Sorry which protocols are you talking about here? It has some half arsed sounds and dashboard flashes if someone doesnt have their hands on the wheel but thats not really much of a safety protocol and isnt "defeated" but ignored.
This ‘second’ has yet to be investigated so I’m not sure we can ascribe the death to the car’s failures yet.
Unless something weird comes out we can. Tesla have admitted to auto pilot being on. It crashed. So it failed.
The problem is the image Tesla gives is of a system far more capable than it is. I wouldnt mind but the idiots might be on the same road as me.
[i]dissonance wrote:[/i]
Unless something weird comes out we can. Tesla have admitted to auto pilot being on. It crashed. So it failed.
It failed at being an autonomous car - but responsibility for safety only gets passed to the car from level 3 up. So it only failed if you fall for the marketing of it being that capable, when it fundamentally isn't. Arguably it's a failure of marketing raising expectations too high.
Sorry which protocols are you talking about here?
Gaffer taping a can of coke to the rim of the wheel defeats the "hold the wheel ****" protocol.
The inertia of the can makes the car think you have your hands on the wheel. Most other manufacturers need the inertia and input in both directions.
I don't know if this is fixed yet. Someone was booked for it in the US early last year. The last tesla I drove still did it (November)
Arguably it’s a failure of marketing raising expectations too high.
Which is what I said.
As for the level Tesla offers. Its unclear with the current set whether its sort of 2+ or 3. Either way its safety measures seem to be a bit lacking which dont help when combined with the PR. In both cases it also seems to have failed at the level 1 emergency braking as well.
Gaffer taping a can of coke to the rim of the wheel defeats the “hold the wheel ****” protocol.
A quick search of the NHTSA report doesnt mention. Whilst I guess he might have done it in the past I cant see anything saying he was doing it at the time. Got any links supporting it?
my car has adaptive cruise and collision avoidance tech. I don't let it drive in to stuff just because it's supposed to stop us crashing. If it helps, great. Anything else is Darwin in action imo.
A quick search of the NHTSA report doesnt mention.
Sorry, I wasn't making specific claims.
Just saying that it's been (And may still be) a common way to override a fairly simple and badly engineered "driver present and paying attention" control.
I wouldn't be surprised if just ignoring or cancelling warnings had a similar effect.
I've decided that humans are (by and large) so irredeemably stupid that we dont deserve cars.