[Closed] Kids getting told off for stuff that I don't think is wrong

Bit over the top really!

Rules is rules, innit?

I get told off for lots of stuff that I don't think is wrong 😉

Welcome to the new world of health and safety. Crap really, especially for us 70's kids who grew up playing in alleyways in the dirt.....

[quote=rossi46 ]Welcome to the new world of health and safety. Crap really, especially for us 70's kids who grew up playing in alleyways in the dirt.....and contracting tetanus......
FTFY

first letter to head and chair of govenors to set out the background as to why junior climbed the tree

second letter to ask the head to demonstrate the competence to assess the risk of climbing the trees

third letter to look for another school 😉

'let the school down' with 'reckless and dangerous actions

Was he throwing flap jack

The only good news is, my job is to try and challenge some of those attitudes and approaches in school.
Just is frustrating so 'close to home' as it is.

Was he throwing flap jack

big n daft - I like the cut of your jib!

Bet you would be suing them if he'd fallen off and hurt himself. 😛

I never got tetanus or any other nasty from playing out in the dirt.....

Give him for his birthday a chainsaw so he can make the grounds safer.

rossi46 - Member

Welcome to the new world of health and safety.

It's not health and safety, it's the school protecting itself from mouth breathing parents demanding com-pen-say-shun.

Did he know the rules before he broke them and was given into trouble?

It is the claim culture at fault here.
Other parents would happily sue a school if their child fell and broke an arm, as they were in charge of the child at the time.
Bad times to be young I'm afraid.
stuff we did at school would give a modern head teacher a fit.

Bet you would be suing them if he'd fallen off and hurt himself.

big_n_daft - Member

It's not health and safety, it's the school protecting itself from mouth breathing parents demanding com-pen-say-shun.

Sad really, we are fast becoming a sue yo ass American state.
Those compensation lawyers for you companies have alot to answer for.

There's something wrong, that's for sure. Spent my days up trees/cliffs in disused quarries, jumping over deep streams when I couldn't swim, just for a 'dare', got stuck in bottomless bogs, got shot with my own air rifle when I was 15, shot my mate in the bum not long after (ricochet), fell through some ice on a pond.
Went on outward bound trips to Howtown & Thurston while at school in winter which were awesome. One time we climbed from Red Tarn straight up to the top of Helvellyn, all roped up with an instructor leading. All of us about 14 yrs old (except the leader, a bloke called Steve Mitchell)
Don't think they do it now. 'Too dangerous' apparently.

This wouldn't bother me at all. The school have a duty of care and apply a different level of risk to you. Live with it.

I don't think I would have a problem explaining to my kid there was one rule at home and one at school.

How many kids actually got injured or killed in these 'good old days'?

My mum's best mate died after a slip whilst running around a swimming pool, incidentally.

stuff we did at school would give a modern head teacher a fit.

This. We used to climb trees to a height I'd think twice about now. School even gave us the old climbing ropes to set up absails or rope swings. I even soloed Brown Slabs at Shepards on a school trip, although that wasn't officially sanctioned.

You can always open your own free school, in the trees . . . just sayin'

4th letter from your solicitor asking why school didn't prevent jnr from climbing trees. A pupil falling out of one on the way out of my school,and breaking his leg, cost us £3000. Just saying there are people who don't want to persuade kids to climb trees out there, well actually they might be,but not for the same reasons as you. As a teacher he hasn't let the school down; please don't do it again would have been better

There are bound to be some differences in the rules you set at home an those of the school..

It seems like a massive over reaction on the school's part though, unless there is perhaps slightly more to this story..?
Was he rude or did he continue to blatantly disobey after being asked reasonably or something..?

According to son he was told at the secondary to come down, nothing made of it and no telling off, and that they all complied immediately.
First he knew there was an issue was teacher from primary hauling him back into classroom on arrival back and having a good go.

We stop the children climbing for exactly the above compensation reasons.

We don't want to but we have to.

Ah yes, I got tutted at by a couple of adults when letting my then 3 year old nephew climb a tree in a local park. He is now 10 and we still encourage him.
Fresh air and a bit of old fashioned play never did us any harm.

Rules are rules but some teachers really get off on enforcing them.

It is crazy isn't it? We have research at work, and evidence from continent that having riskier playgrounds and kids taking risks = fewer accidents.
This is more dangerous:
[img] [/img]
Than this:
[img] [/img]

my school has a full time outdoor ed teacher and every kid
does it at least for a week in their school life, more if the choose to do it as part of gcse pe.

On the other hand climbing trees at break is a no no due to the unsupervised nature and potential for damage / compensation, I've stopped kids piggyback racing for the same reason.

If he wasn't told beforehand it was wrong I'd make a complaint that he got hauled over the coals for it.
Some people have a very low appetite for risk but don't realise they're the odd one out and then try and impose it on everyone else.
IMO kids need to learn to assess risk for themselves so they can keep out of danger in later life.
So for someone with a low risk appetite to try and force their values on your kid is, in the long run, putting him in more danger and therefore worthy of a complaint...

OP, what do you want? That kids be allowed to climb trees? As high as they want?
What do you want the schol to do for you now?

What would you expect to gain from writing to the head or chair of governors? What do you want from them?

OP, what do you want? That kids be allowed to climb trees? As high as they want?
What do you want the schol to do for you now?

What would you expect to gain from writing to the head or chair of governors? What do you want from them?

Here we go... 🙁

my kids climb trees, with me, [b]their parent[/b], they also ride bikes, climb mountains, etc etc

Schools don't have the manpower to effectively supervise tree climbing etc etc

Here we go

[i]my kids climb trees, with me, their parent, they also ride bikes, climb mountains, etc etc

Schools don't have the manpower to effectively supervise tree climbing etc etc
[/i]

This.

I'm 47 and we weren't allowed to climb trees at school, although we still had the cane...

What do I want?
Some common sense, and less people being settled with out of court on these things.
I want our society to be better at dealing with risk, like so many in Europe are.

You need to look at this and introduce the school to a new way of thinking.

[url= http://www.gulbenkian.org.uk/publications/publications/42-NO-FEAR.html ]No Fear ; growing up in a risk averse society.[/url]

What they are actually doing is the opposite of what they think they are doing. Unfortunately we all need educating, especially after we leave school. 🙂

Common sense for many schools is not to allow tree climbing.
I love climbing trees, so do my kids.
I work at an outdoor ed centre where we encourage it, when there are adults present to observe/supervise.

Looking at my kids school, which has it's own woods, I don't see how the dinner ladies who supervise play times could cover the woods and playing field areas, thus the woods are out of bounds outside class sessions.

It seems reasonable and I expect my kids to follow those rules.

I would be peeved if they were bollocked for breaking rules at another school if they hadn't been informed about them...it seems the secondary schools needs to supervise visiting primary school kids better.

But chill, your kids still get to do cool stuff, and you help less fotunate kids do cool things too...what happened here was fairly minor really.

What do I want?
Some common sense, and less people being settled with out of court on these things.
I want our society to be better at dealing with risk, like so many in Europe are.

POSTED 37 MINUTES AGO #

All commendable, but what do you want in this particular case?

All commendable, but what do you want in this particular case?

One of the biggest things we all have to learn when we grow up and move into the [b]GROWN UP WORLD[/b] is what to understand what is acceptable in other peoples environments.
When I work form home I can just wear pants, when I got the office I have to wear more suitable clothes.

Once you work that out then you can interact with the rest of the world a lot easier. Sometimes people have rules (rules man what they all about I just wanna be free and like) for reasons that we can't immediately see, doesn't make them wrong or stupid just different.

I've told my son to come down from a tree on the school grounds before the start of school in that grey time where you're allowed to leave your kids in the supervision of a teacher in the playground, but where I assume if I'm still there they're my responsibility. Oh, and also somebody else's kid. Not because I thought it a problem, but because I didn't think it was something the school would be keen on.

Mind you if I did have a situation like the OP, I wouldn't be writing to the chair of governors, I'd have a little chat with him when our kids were out playing together in our street 😉

Biggest issue here for me is that the rules evidently were not set out clearly. Some interesting stuff about risk free environments being more dangerous.

Behavioural safety studies are genuinely fascinating. Factor in the nature of children to seek thrills and creating a flat safe environment, which to a child's mind is essentially sterile and they will find new and creative ways to hurt themselves or damage the environment they are in.

Give them a controlled environment with assessed hazards and they will leap off walls etc to their hearts content. Odds on, they will be too busy messing about to climb a tree. I think a lot of this stems from the fact that when you are in a situation where you expect hazards, you behave accordingly and the risk of the accident reduces. I.e. I feel safer on my mtb than my road bike. On the mtb, I expect to have to take evasive action and ride with margin for error. On a road bike a small pothole in an unexpected place can wreak havoc and ultimately prove fatal. Likelihood vs severity innit.

We have this debate continually at home with my wife telling my son that xyz is dangerous. Interestingly on the days he has been arsing around trying to jump over pot holes on his scooter or pull skids on his bike, he tends to behave a lot better and not run around with his toothbrush in his mouth (apparently the most hazardous thing EVER!).

Ok you want your kid to do stuff fine. But also encourage him to stick to rules and make judgements. Whilst at school the kids are under the care of the teachers so fair enough to me.

Out of school you make the rules.

Quite a depressing thread

piemonster - Member
Quite a depressing thread

In what way?

I want our society to be better at dealing with risk, like so many in Europe are.

My daughter goes to a school in Europe (Belgium), and I have to say there are far fewer rules than back in the UK, the school has a forest and the kids climb trees and have stick fights during break times, just like I used to as a child and she loves it (except the getting hit with sticks bit).

That said she did break her arm 3 times last year, twice at school in playground incidents (not involving tree climbing though).

I wouldn't say that they are better at dealing with risk, it's just that people take more responsibility for their own actions. For example, they are digging up the cycle path I use on my commute to put some pipes in, there are no barriers around the hole, it's a really big hole you can see it from 100s of yards away, if you fall into it then it's your own fault. I can't see that working in the UK or US.

Use it as a learning experience that has nothing to do with schools or trees. Sometimes, life is unfair. Accept it, some days you'll get a bollocking for something you did that you didn't think was wrong, for doing something you didn't do, or for some imaginary misdemeanour you weren't even aware of. If you get frothed up every time something like that happens you'll spend your whole life being eaten inside by the absolute injustice of it all, and you won't change anything except have a worse life yourself, because ultimately, at times life is distinctly unfair.

Tell your son this, that the school is obviously wrong, but its their school and their rules so accept it and move on. He'll learn more of use from that than he'd get from the satisfaction that his Dad wrote a cross letter to his teacher.

Trees are highly dangerous. My eldest fell out of one near Ladybower Res and had to be helicoptered to hospital. Can you believe that there were no warning signs on the path warning people! They even built dry stone walls under the tree to make it even more dangerous- bloody irresponsible if you ask me. We sent a letter to them demanding they deforest the entire area and cover it in bark chipping so it could never happen to another child.

Kids need to understand risk and consequence. Rubber surface on playgrounds teaches them that it doesn't hurt when they fall off, good learning experience to take into life!!!

In what way?

In a 'kids not allowed to climb trees' way

Are you sure that the kids aren't allowed to climb trees- it wasn't that your lad was a visitor?

Anyways...

my kids climb trees, with me, their parent, they also ride bikes, climb mountains, etc etc

Schools don't have the manpower to effectively supervise tree climbing etc

This to me is the main point.
While matt's kids have the skills and experience to deal with tree climbing, I'd guess that there's a fair few kids at the school that don't.
Can be other issues as well- kids pushing other kids out of trees not the least of them.

According to son he was told at the secondary to come down, nothing made of it and no telling off, and that they all complied immediately.
First he knew there was an issue was teacher from primary hauling him back into classroom on arrival back and having a good go.

Bollocking is fair enough, you're always given the 'you're a representative of the school etc etc' lecture before you go anywhere else to visit. Sounds like the secondary we're pretty relaxed about things.

piemonster - Member
In what way?
In a 'kids not allowed to climb trees' way

Climbing trees at school was a highlight of the day.

It was the "Old Oak" in particular. The views where amazing, although this was Norfolk. Stand on a chair and you can see half the county.

I can see 'why' it's an issue. I can even accept it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

I sort of agree with the OP about the school being a bit draconian, on the other hand I can see where they're coming from.

8 weeks ago my MiL fell from 5 feet whilst gardening and smacked her head on the floor.
Shortly afterwards we were told she would only have 2 hours to live if they didn't operate.
2 weeks in ICU later she woke up.

She is now a fruit loop!!

The school are just covering their backs which is entirely understandable.

What I really love about this thread is the irony of all the classic over-reactions...

In a 'kids not allowed to climb trees' way

Because of course kids aren't allowed to climb trees at all are they? At my son's school they get to do lots of outdoor stuff, including forest school where they go to the next door playing fields to "play" in the woods there. They also have lots of tyres set in the ground on the grass where the kids go and jump over, and little bit of woods on the school grounds where the kids can play in their break. I have absolutely no idea what the policy is on kids climbing the trees, but can accept it if they're not allowed to on the school grounds during school time. After school down the park lots of kids climbing trees (and up high on the climbing play equipment installed there). Personally I find it very refreshing that none of the other parents seem overly protective of their kids. Oh and I also know the head on a first name basis, and it's clear he's not going to stop kids being kids except where there are real concerns for safety. I guess that's what you get living in a village in the countryside.

Trees in school grounds? If so its their business and their trees. Your opinion and life style out of school is irrelevant.

What I really love about this thread is the irony of all the classic over-reactions...

Irony

Thought I'd throw this into the mix:
[url= https://www.50things.org.uk/parents-area.aspx ]50 Things ToDo Before You're 11 and three-quarters (National Trust)[/url]

Item 1: CLIMB A TREE 😀

It also has a link to the [url= http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2012/case092-children.htm ]HSE MythBusters site[/url] which says:

"Skipping, playing conkers and football and [b]climbing trees[/b] are all important activities which help children to have fun and learn about handling risk at the same time. [b]There is no health and safety legislation which bans these activities[/b] in fact [b]HSE is on record as encouraging schools to allow these activities to go ahead[/b]. If individual schools choose to ban these activities it is for other reasons not health and safety."

Build a raft and damming stream FTW

I was a 70s kid and got into to trouble at school for climbing trees, they didn't want the risk you choose otherwise I can't see the issue.

Unfortunately, if you're going to send your kids to school, you have to accept that the school might have rules that are different to at home. Seems the primary school overreacted to the incident, that was a bit unnecessary, but it's unrealistic of any parent to think that their kid will a) never break the rules at school b) never be told off or c) that they will never be told off at school for something that you don't agree with.

The school are in locum parentis and they set the rules for your child as they see fit. Take it up with them...

[img] [/img]

What would you expect to gain from writing to the head or chair of governors? What do you want from them?

he shouldn't have been told off in that matter - he hasn't let anyone down - just explain why the rules are there and that he can't break them at school.

Who saw the documentary on Danny Macaskill whose mother actively encouraged risk taking - with shots of him and brother with some huge net in the garden strung between trees.

Of course he's going to get told off by his current primary school......4ft is a pathetic height to reach. He's let himself down as well!

Who saw the documentary on Danny Macaskill whose mother actively encouraged risk taking - with shots of him and brother with some huge net in the garden strung between trees.

Who saw the other documentary about the thousands of other kids whose mothers told them exactly the same thing, some of who became famous and other ate pies and died of heart disease at 42?

No? Probably wasn't one. But ao long one perosn has become successful as a result, i'm sure it is an excellent policy.

😆

I've stopped kids piggyback racing ...

This makes me very sad

😥

We used to do highly organised piggyback fights at school. It was very good for your core strength. Teachers never said a word, although we were banned from a fair few other things.

Who saw the other documentary about the thousands of other kids whose mothers told them exactly the same thing

Wait! [i]Thousands[/i] of other kids had giant nets strung between trees in their back garden?

I knew it.

Pesky deprived childhood.

I could have been so great.

I assume british bulldogs and murderball with tripple beats + end of break bonus beats is out of the question.

They are talking about children climbing trees on Simon Mayo Radio 2 as I type this.

Kids should be warned about listening to Simon Mayo

Adults. Should be warned about listening to Simon Mayo

I don't care what you lot think, the chef chappy is making a fruit crumble.

http://www.****/news/article-461357/Let-children-injure-says-ROSPA.html