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Seems to have blown up in to country wide protests, what's going on there then? Seems the web has been cut.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59876093
Some footage on this thread.
https://twitter.com/ThomasVLinge/status/1478406191520829445
Supposedly started as protests against fuel price rises? Can't see us going the same way.
The UN are sending an envoy to liaise with the government
Sounds like the possibility of a nice little earner for Tony Blair.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/24/tony-blair-advice-kazakh-president-protesters
Edit : Sorry Sir Tony.
Looks quite big. I'm surprised it's languishing on BBC Overseas and World Services and not the front page. Has Putin told Johnson to tell the BBC to bury it?
Airport ✔️
Local police ✔️
Parliament shut ✔️
All by protesters
Government turn off all media and WWW.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59880166
A military alliance made up of Russia and five ex-Soviet states to help stabilise the country getting sent in.
A military alliance made up of Russia and five ex-Soviet states to help stabilise the country getting sent in.
Could get very nasty..
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1478635964457181185
Just after Putin was talking up the past glories of the Soviet empire.....
Could get very nasty..
Exactly. First off it's being used as an excuse to rearrange the seats in the mostly non-democratic government, with the PM being sacked and replaced by someone else; it'll then be used as an example of why freedom of expression doesn't work and should be reduced.
And second Putin's desperate to have a war in the near-abroad to justify his increasing repression in Russia; this isn't what he expected, but it's a great opportunity for him. The only real challenge will be managing to paint ordinary Kazakhs as swayed by Western interventionist media - but I suspect they'll cope.
Listening to an article about this yesterday evening, the Kremlin is getting worried about these uprisings in case it trickles over the border and the locals start kicking off.
only real challenge will be managing to paint ordinary Kazakhs as swayed by Western interventionist media
Dunno, I've read anecdotally that since China banned crypto mining, huge crypto farms have relocated to Kazakhstan causing blackouts as the infrastructure can't cope.
Winter there at - 20c so if the power goes off there will be trouble
I suspect the protesters are going to need a bit more than sticks and enthusiam, reports saying dozen shot by the police.\
Got to love the BBC though, 13 minutes of Djokovic and 1 minute on a potential uprising / beat down in Kazakhstan.
Whenever there are protests the government shuts down the internet and messenger apps.
It supposedly started because a cost cap on fuel was removed, people in the west then started to protest. As it has spread to Almaty it is now more about government corruption. Most flights have been cancelled as have internal trains which are used by most people to travel across the country as the road networks between cities are poor at best, non existent at worst.
I am struggling to get in contact with colleagues and friends in Almaty due to the outages which is a bit worrying.
I am struggling to get in contact with colleagues and friends in Almaty due to the outages which is a bit worrying.
A friend of mine said they could not contact a developer this morning for an online call/meeting.
Got to love the BBC though, 13 minutes of Djokovic and 1 minute on a potential uprising / beat down in Kazakhstan.
People are more interested in Djokovic than they are in Kazakhstan, which is why the thread on Djokovic has considerably more posts than this one.
How many minutes did Sky News give to Kazakhstan?
I have had a lot of meetings cancelled over the last few days because of the outages. I'm working from home at the moment but I'm usually based in East Kazakhstan, was due to fly back next week but I'm not now due to other things going on.
I know of a few people stuck outside the country and others trying to get back in.
ernielynch
Free Member
Got to love the BBC though, 13 minutes of Djokovic and 1 minute on a potential uprising / beat down in Kazakhstan.People are more interested in Djokovic than they are in Kazakhstan, which is why the thread on Djokovic has considerably more posts than this one.
How many minutes did Sky News give to Kazakhstan?
Aye I get that the world likes a witch hunt. Doesn't means it should displace serious news, but I guess I'm expecting too much there. No idea on sky, don't watch it.
Doesn’t means it should displace serious news
Are you sure that they had more news on Kazakhstan that they could have reported?
What did other news providers report that the BBC didn't?
Other news channels aren't great either tbh.
Putting aside the role of the BBC it sounds like a terrible situation. Russian paratroopers sent in to ‘keep the peace’ coz of course that is the primary purpose of paratroopers..
Grim.
One wrong move in that region will result in a massive instability Central Asia.
We are talking about the descendants of the Mongol people here and we know how tough they can be.
We are talking about the descendants of the Mongol people here and we know how tough they can be.
Kazakhstan is greatest country in the world. All other countries are run by little girls.
Putin had no choice but to nip this in the bud quickly, weakens his position regards Ukraine.
Quite a few ex soviet states getting upset at their kremlin friendly autocrats
He seems to have brutally put down the movement in Belarus, but who knows where trouble could flare up again.
Inflation and fuel costs are a global problem at the moment.
We are talking about the descendants of the Mongol people here
They invented toffee and the trouser belt.
Kazakhstan is greatest country in the world. All other countries are run by little girls.
LOL! They will welcome you with red carpet.
They invented toffee and the trouser belt.
I don't know but if they do then Long Live the Mongol. May we have toffee and trouser belt forever!
kimbers
Full Member
Putin had no choice but to nip this in the bud quickly,
Does sound like they are slow in getting to work
https://twitter.com/abdujalil/status/1479181466571579394
🙁
Poor people of Kazakhstan.
Such a shame Almaty is a great city, had some good times there.
Its just moved up another notch... troops can fire without warning.
Soldiers can now fire without warning in Kazakhstan, president says, as anti-government demonstrations continue
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-59907235
A quote from the President of Kazakhstan...
"We had to deal with armed and well-prepared bandits, local as well as foreign. More precisely, with terrorists. So we have to destroy them, this will be done soon," he said.
What a terrible situation :o(
I came here looking for a picture of Borat.....
I wasn't disappointed!
carry on
Interesting contrast between the opinions here (and in the media) on anti-government protestors in Khazakhstan and the anti-government protestors in the US a year ago. Would someone care to explain the difference cos I'm struggling?
cos I’m struggling?
Really? You are struggling to understand the difference between the democratic processes in the United States and Kazakhstan?
It supposedly started because a cost cap on fuel was removed
Chain of events:
- China bans bitcoin mining
- Bitcoin mining moves to Kazakhstan
- Demand for electricity now exceeds supply
- Cap on electricity prices removed
- Unrest
The law of unintended consequences + a dictator
Really?
No I'm fully aware of the differences between the US and Khazakhstan, but not sure why anti-government protesters in the US are demonised while their counterparts in Khazakhstan are celebrated. On both sides you have working people rising up against a government which doesn't care about them and doesn't act in their interests, yet one is good and the other bad. 🤷🏻♂️
Those guys in the US aren't standing up for democracy you know? They're complaining because their worldview isn't being forced on everyone else - that's the difference
No I’m fully aware of the differences between the US and Khazakhstan
Go and educate yourself then.
You could start off by reading the link that I provided at the top of this thread concerning Tony Blair's lavish rewards for helping Kazakhstan's former leader...... despite 96% of the population voting for him there was some concern about his "image'.
Go and educate yourself then.
You've misunderstood me there, I said I was aware of the differences. I'm also very aware of the similarities, that in both cases you have governments which serve the rich at the expense of the people. The fact that the US maintains a thin veil of 'democracy' doesn't automatically mean the actions of US protests are unacceptable. This is a simple case of western double standards.
You’ve misunderstood me there, I said I was aware of the differences.
Well if you understand the difference what's your problem?
doesn’t automatically mean the actions of US protests are unacceptable.
Who is automatically claiming that US protests are unacceptable? Plenty of protests in the US are acceptable, those by Trump supporters weren't.
Double standards? Not at all. Protests should be an important tool in strengthening democracy, Trump supporters were deliberately trying to undermine democracy.
Tbh I'm amazed that I'm having to make the point.
but not sure why anti-government protesters in the US are demonised while their counterparts in Khazakhstan are celebrated
Are you taking the piss? You honestly can't see the difference between the two?
ernielynch
Free MemberTbh I’m amazed that I’m having to make the point.
yeah, bit mental you have to.
Tbh I’m amazed that I’m having to make the point.
Be honest, in this case, are you actually amazed…?
Yeah I am amazed. Why should something so obvious need explaining?
Trump supporters were deliberately trying to undermine democracy.
We’re they? Or were they protesting against a system which is rigged against the working class? It’s an oft-used accusation that anyone taking direct action is acting against democracy. In this regard the Kazakh protestors and Capitol protestors are no different.
No they weren't protesting against a system which is rigged against the working class. They weren't protesting against the system at all.
They tried to stage a coup because a billionaire told them a pack of lies, which they chose to believe, that he had won the presidential election.
A totally shocking article in the Observer today. It’s difficult to believe, I know, but apparently the ill-gotten billions of the corrupt ruling elite ended up in….
London!
Well, who’d have thunk it? I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
How the Kazakh elite put its wealth into UK property
It's turning out this has ended up in a bit of a power struggle eh? Wonder if there was a genuine protest to start or not? Difficult to tell either way tbh.
anti-government protestors in the US a year ago. Would someone care to explain the difference cos I’m struggling?
Well, one has ordinary people protesting against an autocratic, undemocratic government, the other has a bunch of right-wing demonstrators complaining about a democratically elected government, driven on by a narcissistic, autocratic loser of an ex-president. Take your pick.
bunch of right-wing demonstrators complaining about a democratically elected government
I think you are being unnecessarily generous to the mob which attacked the Capitol in Washington. It's stretching it a bit to describe them as demonstrators complaining.
They went there with the specific aim of physically stopping the electoral college carrying out its legal and constitutional role.
Although the irony of the presence of the Oath Keepers among the mob who tried, unsuccessfully, to carry out an unconstitutional coup isn't lost on me!
I have just spoken with by boss in living in Almaty, it has quietened down now and hasn't heard any gunshots for 36 hours. The supermarkets have reopened som people can buy food and supplies.
The word in the Almaty expat community is that this was an organised attempt at a coup, there were a number of people waiting for something to happen so they could take on the government. The reason Russia was asked to step in was because the Kazakh military stepped aside leaving the police (who were still loyal) to try to calm the protests. The fuel protests were all they needed. When the shooting started the general population went home just leaving the organised rioters who were hoping for support.
Flights out of the country are have restarted from Astana, Almaty airport is being repaired and will be open again at the end of the week. There are still check points in the city so you can't go too far from home.
I worked in Almaty for a little while and am still friends with our business partners there.
The ordinary folk are (he tells me) not involved in this and are terrified. They're hiding in their homes and have been since the fuse was lit. The fuel price protests were peaceful but then escalated. He believes that there are a lot of imported / trained militants. Some speculation on social media that many may have come from Afghanistan. Who knows?!
Putin suspects western support for the uprising.
The Kazakh's believe it is a pissing match between the new guy and the old guy who still retains a lot of power despite not being the president any more.
Anyway - the more I read on this, the more confusing it all seems to be. but there definitely is an unseen hand being played by someone here.
Or were they protesting against a system which is rigged against the working class?
I wasn't aware that the Washingon rioters were protesting against capitalism and trying to usher in more democratic accountability. Kind of seemed like the opposite tbh.
I wasn’t aware that the Washingon rioters were protesting against capitalism
I didn't say that though. I said they were protesting against an elite which long ago abandoned any pretence of governing and operating in the interests of normal people. The problem isn't primarily an economic one, although it's inherently connected. The problem is that people of all political leanings have lost all trust and faith in their leaders. That's happened because over the past 20-30 years the political and business establishment lost sight of the fact that they exist by the consent of the people. And now the people take every opportunity, however ill-thought out or reactionary, to express that anger. The end result is things like brexit, Trump, Boris, the storming of the capitol, the anti-vax movement, climate change denial and all sorts of other reactionary nonsense.
interesting update from within the country, thank you<span style="text-decoration: underline;">.</span>
Dazh,
They were protesting against democracy. That's all.
said they were protesting against an elite
The attack on the US Capitol was not a protest. It was an attempt to stop the Joint session of the United States Congress from counting the electoral votes. It was an attempt to reverse the result of a presidential election.
Interesting article in today's Guardian concerning Kazakhstan.
"Why do foreign oil workers earn so much more than Kazakhs?"
I can understand why the expat community in Kazakhstan might be nervous and concerned by the thought of a challenge to the existing status quo.
Putin suspects western support for the uprising.
He is certainly claiming that, presumably he feels it provides him with some justification for intervention, but there really appears to be no evidence.
IME whenever Western powers are involved in interference and destabilisation of foreign governments, even when it is done completely covertly, there is a period of sustained criticism of the regime to prepare domestic opinion to accept regime change. This doesn't appear to be the case with Kazakhstan.
Furthermore I don't see how regime change would particularly benefit the West. The fuel protests which kicked things off were apparently in response to a change in government policy. According to the Guardian article :
The government is all about bringing in free-market rules and finally burying the vestiges of the command economy that prevailed when Kazakhstan was a Soviet republic.
I'm sure that meets the approval of Western governments.
“Why do foreign oil workers earn so much more than Kazakhs?”
I do not work in oil and gas, I work in mining. The problem in Kazakhstan is with education, particularly the way it is given, they are taught facts. There is no reasoning or problem solving taught, the expats are paid to solve the problems and not do the day to day work. Solving the problems to keep a plant going at $3M of revenue generation is worth more to a company than an operator who can be replaced.
I have worked with some great guys in KZ who can solve problems and foresee issues but these are in the minority (3-4 out of a couple of thousands).
Another problem stems from the soviet days, taking responsibility. Everyone wants a say but no one wants to take responsibility for fear of being punished severely rather than
It being a learning opportunity.