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Idly mulling over the idea of a week long paddling tour somewhere in Europe. My first thought was Finland - Saimaa or somewhere similar. Of course flat water is easier to deal with, but a nice flat river could be good. I'm not interested in danger!
Late June/early July is probably best.
Friends loved Croatia last summer.
You thinking about taking your own kit - thanks to Brexit it is not quite as simple. A carnet seems to now be required. Club mates going to European surfski champs in Portugal got stung for big bucks. As did a British kayak team (in a team GB van, in team GB uniform with GB badged up boats - so pretty obvious they were coming back with the boats too).
A few years ago, my wife & I did a cycle tour going up the Loire (EuroVelo6) Struck me it would be just as enjoyable, perhaps even moreso, doing it in reverse by paddling down the river in a canoe.
It's certainly been added to my list of things to do...
I did the Dordogne a couple of years ago. Really enjoyed it. Best done at the edge of the season tho as it gets very busyIts basically a short week paddling
its really well set up with multiple companies to take you upriver and rent you a canoe and with loads of campsites along the river set up for canoeists. We did it in September and one huge advantage - the water was warm so it didn't matter if you went in unlike Scotland ( and I guess finland) where if you go in its immediately a survival situation and in a canoe you can take a cool bag for cold beer with your picnics
One of the best trips I have ever done.
I've paddled on Saimaa, but in canoe rather than kayak. We hired from Wild Canoe. Quite basic but very helpful - paddling outfitters in Finland are not as well developed as Sweden. We went in May and were lucky with the weather, June should be good.
Look on Song of the Paddle for suggestions - probably start here.
https://www.whitewaterthecanoecentre.co.uk/best-canoe-trips-in-the-south-of-france-180-p.asp
^ buy that.
France is hard to beat for rivers and 'easy access' tours.
If not, Scandinavia has a few established canoe tours. I think that @malgrey has a few under his belt and can advise.
I’m not interested in danger!
The issue in France (even Germany, Poland or Czech republic) is that the easier, fla****er tours can get very busy.
*Some* moving water is a good thing, for fun, to speed you along and to remove most of the punters.
Have you paddled any moving water?
Have you paddled any moving water?
I have yes, I did a three day trip on the Ardeche but I was only 15 at the time and there was a guide.
I definitely don't want people around.
I definitely don’t want people around.
In which case I have done some paddling in the north west of Scotland on very remote lochs which link up with short portages. However its a whole different ball game. Go in and its self rescue / immediate survival situation. But utterly beautiful
Work colleague of mine, Jim did this trip a couple of years ago:
https://www.canoe-shops.co.uk/blogs/open-canoe-reviews/pelican-15-5-canoe-review
My mates did Fort William to Inverness last Autumn one in a pack raft and one on a Paddleboard. I’m sure I would be much easier in a kayak.
I have yes, I did a three day trip on the Ardeche but I was only 15 at the time and there was a guide.
In which case, you want still or barely moving grade 1.
Ignore my French suggestions, anything accessible by folk who have never done moving water tends to be busy.
I definitely don’t want people around.
In which case I would consider Sweden or Finland - fewer folk.
Edit: how much paddling have you done? At the very least you should be able to self rescue and have awareness of things like fetch, wave height and wind speed and how that can affect paddling, ideally a plan and group who can help you self rescue even in deep water.
In which case, you want still or barely moving grade 1.
Well the Ardeche definitely wasn't that, but yes - that's what I asked for in the OP. Hence my original choice being a lake.
ideally a plan
Thanks for your concern but you can rest assured I over-plan and over-worry about everything, and if such a trip happens it will be done in the safest possible way or the content of the trip will be moderated appropriately.
Thanks for your concern but you can rest assured I over-plan and over-worry about everything
Oh, I can believe that! 😉
The idea behind a lake system such as Saimaa would be that there'd be little current, and we could always be close to shore.
I'd be going with one other person, but I'm re-thinking the tandem idea because if something went wrong you'd both be in for a swim.
Whats the water temp like? survival times are very limited in cold water an even if you get out then you are soaked and miles from help
years ago i found a website of ideas for this. Of course i can't find it now. But the German rivers sounded amazing
For example
https://www.lahntours.de/en/canoe/with-the-canoe-on-the-lahn/
Whats the water temp like? survival times are very limited in cold water an even if you get out then you are soaked and miles from help
According to what I can find on the internet Saimaa is usually 17-18C in July, one year it was 15C and sometimes 20C.
I'd be close to shore no matter what which I think would mitigate the risk somewhat.
But the German rivers sounded amazing
Not a bad idea - we could save a fair bit of money by driving there. But then I think you'd need to pay for camping unlike in Scandinavia.
We self guided with these guys last summer. Hired the paddling and camping stuff from them, and self guided (you need to be able to map read!) for 4 days wild camping. Tandem kayak, we have both paddled before but not for a few years (I played kayak polo at uni for example) and we weren’t even close to going for a swim. Apart from in the evenings from our own private beaches etc.
Saw very few people when we intended to (and convenient small shops when you do want to buy some fresh food etc). If I could post photos then they would look very similar to the ones on the website:
According to what I can find on the internet Saimaa is usually 17-18C in July, one year it was 15C and sometimes 20C.
That's toasty warm, all things relative. Like southern England sea and reservoir warm.
I've done the Ardeche Gorge in September and my partner has also done it in August. While August was mental, September wasn't that busy. By which I think if you went in June, a week doing a French river through the vineyards and sunflower fields would be very pleasant and I wouldn't expect to see that many people on the river, just normal busy at the towns you would stop off at.
This isn't a recommendation as such, but for very easy to organise and inexpensive travel , we did a 3 night trip in central Sweden with friends. With a few portages, could extend to a week of gentle paddling, fishing and swimming. Even my partner managed to get in the water to swim so it must have been 20°C (late August). We didn't see other people, perhaps one other boat in 4 days, and a few cabins in the woods. But there wasn't a particular place to aim for or things to see. We rented canoes central Sweden canoe trail and rental
Go in and its self rescue / immediate survival situation.
Tell me your using inappropriate equipment without telling me your using inappropriate kit......even in melt water in November and December I was toasty warm for 4 hours of repeated dunkings in the river.....in sub zero air temps.
Probably worth considering the correct kit for conditions on such an undertaking.....although nothing surprises me anymore...... No pfds and board shorts /vest in the sea exploring round dunnotters reasonable common sight.....
I did a few days paddling about the Stockholm archipelago, you can camp on the smaller uninhabited islands. Was good fun....rained a lot though!
rained a lot though!
Yep rained for us in Sweden too, heavy showers. Which I guess emphasises trailrat's point about having the right gear on and with you for camping.
matt_outandabout
^ buy that.
Ooooh, interesting. I have the White Water Massif Central Guide Book - do you know if this has been updated/added to at all in the new book, or just given a new cover and re-published?
I have no personal experience but I would have thought the Masurian lakes in Poland would be ideal for you - and easy to get to and pretty cheap once you're there.
Also spent some time exploring the Stockholm archipelago. Really chilled paddling and a lovely area. Several islands have hostels, hotels, bnbs, restaurants etc, as an alternative to camping (which I'd like to go back and do).
We were travelling light, so was part of the reason we chose there. Ended up with a couple days exploring the city, which was a great way to finish.
Only caution would be to avoid when everyone goes on summer holiday, apparently it gets a little interesting when all the motor cruisers and speed boats are out in party mode.
Edit to add was pretty easy to book our own kayaks, accommodation, transfers etc and route plan.
In the top 3 trips ever, up there with thrashing hire cars off-road at 80mph in the atacama desert.
Great guys. Just rock up, throw your phone in their van and go self sufficient for a week or two.
Neil SuperstarComponents
Where you using full dry suits trailrat? cos thats the only way I would be warm in 2c water
If that's what was needed to make it "not instantly a survival situation" then I would.
But no I was using a winter wetsuit -gloves, booties and a cag.
TJ - where were you paddling with water at 2C? That's about the temperature of Loch Morlich at the moment and we're using sledgehammers to break the ice so we can get in.
Haha. I remember running up meall a buchallie in snow and getting back to the van before swimming out and across morlich and back a few years back in my Tri wetsuit with "complient gloves and booties".....ie.minimum drag minimum requirements when full coverage required......
Only smart thing I did that day was turn on the truma before we went out..... Pretty much crawled from the loch side as my feet had left the chat.
TJ – where were you paddling with water at 2C?
Maybe it wasn't that cold but cold enough that survival times are limited. Deep water in the highlands in early spring. Certainly I considered it to be all about survival if we went in and self reliance / self rescue. Better safe than sorry. Open canoe and a 3 day trip and miles from a road or potential rescue. Certainly survival times are short enough that "hang on to the boat and wait for rescue" was not going to happen
Edit : it was about taking precautions and understanding the worst case scenario and being prepared for it
Loch Ness is reputed to never get above 6c. When we paddled Fort William to Inverness we had a day on Coniston doing rescue practice to make certain our peer rescues were up to scratch.
It's easy to under estimate large Lochs and I want to control risks.
@PZ_Steve - I believe it is updated. He was on SoTP garnering information and was on trips back to the area.
Brilliant book, made all the better by Fluffy's inclusion.
Loch Ness is reputed to never get above 6c
I'd doubt this to be honest, having swum in it a fair bit. I suspect that is the figure for the water deeper down, not the temp near the shore or in the top few feet you'd swim in elsewhere. I've done that trick before (actually on Loch Tay which is also deep) of lobbing a jam jar into the water on a very very long string in the height of summer, pulling it back to the surface and freaking people out with how astonishingly different the temp of the water in the jar is to the water they are dipping their toes over the side is.
Fjords can be freakish in this regard as they are often inverted close to glaciers in the summer. The fresh melt water forms a layer on the surface with the salty sea water below. In the norseman triathlon the advice if getting cold in the swim is to dive down to warm up. It feels very bizarre.
According to what I can find on the internet Saimaa is usually 17-18C in July, one year it was 15C and sometimes 20C.
Conversely 17-18C seems perversely warm at that latitude! Must be very shallow. these people - give themselves a margin of error of 0-17degs for May water temperature! I guess that shows what an amazing difference the weather must have on the water temp - a long winter pushing the temp right down. Looks lovely though.
Nice thing about lakes in Finland and Sweden is that the are usually very shallow and warm up fast, especially when there's 20hrs a day of sunshine on them. You also get to wild camp wherever you want, and another handy benefit is that allegedly in Saimaa the lake water is actually drinkable, so you don't have to go looking for water. I'd still filter it though.