[Closed] Karate

Maybe you should read about its origins a bit more to respect / learn what it is you are entering. Or don't do it.

IMO, any of the martial arts are a great deal more than "fighting" and thier history & context should be understood before entering into it.

PS - "Black Belt" is merely a measurement of obtaining an average standard in the "real" system.

I'm not sure I agree with Kryton - one doesn't need to have a good understanding of the history of road cycling and the more obscure one day classics to start riding a bike but it can come later when you get 'into' it.

I think learning the standard moves is like doing scales on a piano - pointless in themselves but creating a base for more complex things later. It can feel a bit 'wax on/wax off' for a long time before you start doing other things.

I've got a vision of the OP stood there with a class of s****ing, 3ft tall 7 year olds as he's shouted at by the teacher for picking his nose.

Maybe you should read about its origins a bit more to respect / learn what it is you are entering. Or don't do it.

Just to clarify. It is the 5 year olds that are picking their noses. Not me.

I enjoy it and the knee improvement is an unexpected bonus as I was half expecting to make it worse.

I was just wondering if anyone else had got involved as a result of taking their kids and how they were getting on.

If you want to become "hard as nails" or indeed learn how to defend yourself, or teach same to your kids take them to Judo or Boxing instead. Look at Karate as light contact yoga or Tai Chi. If it's a classical style, do it for the sake of the art and the discipline/fitness it'll give you or your kids.

If it's Shinkyokushinkai, then it might actually teach you something about fighting too.

One of my mates does karate. He's always injuring himself. I've lost count of the number of times he's had broken/dislocated toes or bruised ribs.

There's a guy in Todmorden who does karate in his garden in the morning opposite the train station. I was watching him the other day and it looks very boring.

I'm not sure I agree with Kryton - one doesn't need to have a good understanding of the history of road cycling and the more obscure one day classics to start riding a bike but it can come later when you get 'into' it.

+1

I used to do semi-contact kick boxing, basically karate without the pseudo intellectual BS and a lot more sparing. Gets you really fit, plus being able to knock out a spinning crescent kick whilst pissed really impressed the ladies 😉

My 7 year old has been doing it for 18 months. Son#2 will be going when he is big enough.

It looks to be a great way to stay flexible, I am considering taking it up myself.

@Kryton57 - Ooohh Get you!

If you want to learn scrapping, Krav Maga is a good place to start.

I trained for 13 years and reached the level of Sandan, or third degree black belt in one of the original three styles, Naha Te subsequently called Goju Ryu. The orher two are Shuri Te and Tomari Te. From these three styles, which are all derivations of Chinese Kung Fu, you get all the subsequent derivations of which there are almost as many as their are practitioners . Shodan, the first level, indicates you're ready to start serious training. There are n+1 years between black belt grades whee n is your current level. No serious karateka would put tabs on their black belt. It's just poor etiquette.

As with all martial arts, it's far less about the style and far more about the teacher. You'll know if you have a good teacher. The whole heirarchy and discipline thing is very much a Japanese cultural hangover. Defence to authority is very common in Karate. For example I would never have dreamed of called by instructor anything but Sensei, regardless of the situation.

I loved my training. It was a very large part of my life when I trained from age 18 onwards.

I do it with my kids and its a good introduction to the principles and the art.

The history is irrelevant [ and disputed anyway] and so many want to keep it sacred and not let it evolve...take that which is useful

I agree other forms are better* for self defence but if you do anythign for 10 years you will be able to look after yourself.
if you really want to fight do MMA or similar as it will teach the "best" bits of a variety of styles.

* been doing a lot of boxing of late and its pretty impressive if you dont "cheat" and kick them
Kids also good enough to do contact stuff now and proper training with me/mates

1) Learning the moves is very frustrating. Reminiscent of the ballroom class that I had to go to with the wife as a trade off for a skiing holiday many years ago.
IT TAKES TIME but you can always improve but some of it fairly pointless
2) Shouting in Japanese makes me feel a bit self-conscious.
YOU GET USED TO IT
3) My son thinks that sitting on a radiator counts as a warm up.
THEY CAN EVENTUALLY DO IT ALL
4) Putting your hands in your pockets or picking your nose earns you a bollocking.
INDEED DONT MOVE UNLESS TOLD TO
5) As a result of the stretching and bending I am free from niggling knee pain for the first time in 6 months.
YOU ARE NOT DOING STANCES THEN AS SOME OF THEM HURT A LOT

Look at Karate as light contact yoga or Tai Chi

Says the person who hasn't got a clue what they're talking about.

I used to do semi-contact kick boxing, basically k[s]arate without the pseudo intellectual[/s] BS

FIFY. I saw a 'kick boxer' get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Thai <Edit> boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

conkerman

If you want to learn scrapping, Krav Maga is a good place to start.

Bad place to start, good place to progress to if you are a doorman,cop,soldier or involved in security in some way. I attended a few seminars and it's good stuff but a grounding in some other styles would prepare you for it.

geetee1972

Look at Karate as light contact yoga or Tai Chi

Says the person who hasn't got a clue what they're talking about.

I trained in Karate and Jiu Jitsu for four years (I think) when I was a kid with Josie Murray who trained my dad. Then progressed to "American" Kickboxing as a teenager with Paddy Toland. Started Jeet Kune Do at 18 under John Kavanagh, did that for 5 years but had to stop due to a shoulder injury. Started training in BJJ and MMA at 27, managed another four years before I got put out due to another shoulder injury. Decided I enjoyed getting injured on my bike more than fighting. But yes, I haven't got a clue.

No 5 sounds like it makes numbers 1-4 worthwhile.

For example I would never have dreamed of called by instructor anything but Sensei, regardless of the situation.

What even if you're having a pie and pint after class?

@Kryton57 - Ooohh Get you!

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood the OP, I thought he was posting in deliberately comic/trite style.

Indeed they are all impressive and it does not matter what you have done if you get someone at say third dan in anything they will be more than capable of defending themself.

What it may mean is certain things are more useful as you are unlikely to be attacked by a man in armour with a sword or a knife on a chain [ run away quickly]

MMA quickly showed that you need to have good grounding in a number of arts to win though 1-1 BJJ is the best . Its pretty poor against multiple opponents though so it has it limitations

they all have their strengths and their weaknesses
I know some awesome karate folk who will happily do some light ta chi with you

I've done 1/2 dozen different martial arts over the years including several karate styles. Karate can include self defense training which was similar to Jujitsu I think in the one I did. Judo was good but the semi contact karate class I went to was my favourite - mostly as they weren't too strict and we did loads of sparing and bag work with not so much kata which I wasn't too bothered about. Oh and I did like breaking!

Kick boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

What even if you're having a pie and pint after class?

LOL, most especially then!

It's difficult to explain how the deferential culture worked. It was just how it worked. If you wanted to train with him (and a lot of people did because he was seventh dan and his training was excellent), then that's just what you did. It is almost impossible, in this culture, to explain to someone why that was a perfectly reasonable thing but it was.

I dount anyone outside of that culture would understand. I look back myself and sometimes can't quite believe it myself either. In some ways, it did have some of the hall marks of a 'cult' without such sinister overtones (although there are plenty of examples where that is precisely what is going on).

1-1 BJJ is the best . Its pretty poor against multiple opponents though so it has it limitation

Absolutely +1 for that.

Harry Spider's house on a Sunday morning;

Which style of Karate?
I did Shotokan with my dad & brothers when I was young (like you and your son) but eventually dropped out, think the instructor thought his wife and my dad got on a little too well. Picked it up again at poly (brilliant teacher/Sensei) before joining a local class, where the teacher was more interested in getting competition result/reputation, not why I did it.. so left. Pity as I enjoyed it lots but then I loved the kata's, was ready for my 1st brown (not very high I know), on both occasions..
IIRC gradings, assuming you get up to scratch happened every 3 or so months.
1) Practice make perfect, it's lot about building muscle memory.
2) Never did that, well don't remember doing that.
3) This seemed to be the case for lots of classes.
4) Stop wear trackies and get a Karategi & have some respect for the teacher/class [ahh I see it he kids].
5) All good!

How come you picked Karate? I loved it (more as young adult) but think maybe Aikido (or the like) would be a better choice for building childrens confidence without increasing there chances of being involved in 'fights' (which when kids at school find out they do karate, is a constant niggle)

[quote=geetee1972 said]I
FIFY. I saw a 'kick boxer' get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Kick boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

The kickboxer hit himself, wot a knob 🙂

FIFY. I saw a 'kick boxer' get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Kick boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

so they knocked themself out? nice work.

and that clip up there is a choreographed outtake from never back down.

I used to do it back when I was a teenager into Jackie Chan films, I loved it and ended up having quite a martial arts heavy timetable;

Monday - karate
Tuesday - kickboxing
Wednesday - wrestling
Thursday - karate then aikido

I actually preferred the 'learning moves' aspect of karate and aikido over the fighting times of kickboxing and wrestling.

Since moving about a bit I have tried to get back into something but just can't - recently tried kung fu but found it wasn't for me.

I say if it is fairly enjoyable and has a side benefit - i.e. the knee pain going away then keep with it, don't focus on gradings and belts unless you want to brag about where you are - it is just a way of showing how long you have been doing it for really.

For the record I feel the same thing about things like spin classes and yoga - if it benefits something else (e.g. riding) and you enjoy it then do it.

Obviously that is just my opinion.

But yes, I haven't got a clue.

About Karate, it would appear you don't.

What is insightful though (not sure if you intended this or not), is that martial arts break down most broadly into the internal and external types.

External relly on muscle conditioning to generate power. Internal relly on 'chi' or internal energy to do this. We can debate that till the cows come home and I am not saying there is anything to 'chi' but I have experienced the force that internal practitioners can generate without seemingly any muscle tension.

Most of the Shuri Te derived styles of Karate don't place much emphasis on the internal components (so Shotokan, Wado-Ryu etc). The Naha Te dervied styles like Goju Ry and Uechi Ryu do try to develop it through a traditional kata called 'Sanchin' but that does still use extreme body tension as well we trying to develop so called 'internal energy'.

Tai Chi is an internal martial art. Yoga is not a martial art of any kind but it's principles of breathing from the diaphram (I think they call it Hathic Breathing?) is replicated in Sanchin.

So, there are link between Karate and Yoga. Barely any between Tai Chi and Karate. If that's what you meant than I apologise.

It is almost impossible, in this culture, to explain to someone why that was a perfectly reasonable thing but it was.

Was this in the UK?

Like many things it depends a lot on the club. Some are all about pushing people through the grading, as that's where they make their money, so in the end you become a black belt in no time and brilliant at kata, but pretty useless when it comes to defending yourself.
If you train somewhere where there is a lot of contact sparring then you get pretty bloody good at fighting and defending yourself, or beaten up every week.

Did karate (Shotokan)for years ,great fun and it kept me out the pub.
It was a good way to get fit if you put in the effort, and it enhanced my dance skilz no end 😉

Was this in the UK?

Yep - dojo was down the Walworth Road, near the Elephant & Castle. Interesting place.

One of my mates (who used to fight Nam Yang globally) introduced me to Xing Yi a few years ago. It sounded very odd until I saw him demo it. Very unusual (to my untrained eye) but incredibly powerful when you're on the receiving end of it.

I fancy giving it a go myself at some point. In the meantime I reckon I'll take monkey jnr to some form of karate class soon.

Hsing I Chuan is the internal style I experienced. It is very very weird to be on the receiving end of that kind of technique.

Do Karate, OK.

Not do Karate, OK.

Do Karate "maybe", get squashed like bug.

Spacemonkey's video:

Is that little fella in blue having a cheeky feel at 1:34?

Can only go on what I've seen myself.. I tried martial arts as a kid. My view of them was that it was all about set moves and pretty useless unless fighting another proponent of the same style. This was confirmed when our 'grand master' at wing chun got punched in the face by a student because he punched him with the 'wrong hand'.

My personal favourite is boxing. I've done it now three nights a week for 20 years and think it's a great sport, but everyone has their own favourite.

They're all great for building confidence but one thing to remember about any combat sport used for self defence, the vast majority of assults happen when you're not expecting them, or too drunk to do anything about them.

Anyone else do it? How good or bad are you? How long before you take your first grading?

I practiced karate from the age of 7 to 25. It took over a bit whilst I was at Uni and I was training every day and travelling to all sorts of places to train with different people. Then I stopped suddenly two years ago, but I won't go into that.

This is a great thing to do for your kids. Especially if it's the headteacher teaching them!

Karate and martial arts usually attracts a lot of nonsense from people saying one's rubbish and something else is much better. If you find a good club run by someone you can aspire to then you'll enjoy yourself and sticking with it will be rewarding. Since this is a club at your kids school run by the head I suspect you're taking them to the right place.

How long to your first grading... depends how long until you're ready 🙂

In my experience, especially with kids clubs there tends to be regular opportunities to grade every 3 or 4 months to keep them interested. I wouldn't be surprised if the head decides to do a grading at the end of each school term.

geetee1972 - Member

But yes, I haven't got a clue.

About Karate, it would appear you don't.

What is insightful though (not sure if you intended this or not), is that martial arts break down most broadly into the internal and external types.

External relly on muscle conditioning to generate power. Internal relly on 'chi' or internal energy to do this. We can debate that till the cows come home and I am not saying there is anything to 'chi' but I have experienced the force that internal practitioners can generate without seemingly any muscle tension.

Most of the Shuri Te derived styles of Karate don't place much emphasis on the internal components (so Shotokan, Wado-Ryu etc). The Naha Te dervied styles like Goju Ry and Uechi Ryu do try to develop it through a traditional kata called 'Sanchin' but that does still use extreme body tension as well we trying to develop so called 'internal energy'.

Tai Chi is an internal martial art. Yoga is not a martial art of any kind but it's principles of breathing from the diaphram (I think they call it Hathic Breathing?) is replicated in Sanchin.

So, there are link between Karate and Yoga. Barely any between Tai Chi and Karate. If that's what you meant than I apologise.

What I meant was that people getting into Karate should probably do so for the social/fitness/recreation and for want of a better word "holistic" aspects of the art as opposed to fighting. There are better arts for that.

I also encountered a guy called Jeffrey Balmer, who is apparently a Samurai and versed in many arts, and demonstrated some dark ki techniques including punching out candles from a distance and making people collapse with ki strikes. It was mostly guff.

Meddled with Karate and others but Judo was my sport, my 2p for any of the martial arts

Train properly it will teach you fantastic self discipline.........transferable to many other things in life

Train properly you will find your 'reaction times' become alot faster again transferable.

Any kind of 'full contact'martial art anfd you will find your pain threshold gets alot higher as some injuries (small to major) are inevitable

Getting to 'black belt/dan grade' or what ever its called in other styles is really only the start, someone mentioned it above and the best way I can explain it is up to black belt you are taught the principle and completion of a technique, once you reach dan grade or a certain level you start to adapt these techniques into how they can work for you, and if really good start to make a few of your own (this is really hard as most have probably been done at some point but gone out of fasion).

One other thing I have noticed in martial arts, you dont really get bullies, why? they dont last long as there is always someone better (this learned training with what I would consider some VERY hard (olympic level) athletes and not one of them could you call any kind of bully)

This is Karate. The Tiger.

I really don't want to try out the Colon Lunge from that video.

 

Nine years here as a young adult/teen here.

My son will be going to amateur boxing and Aikido.

Yep - dojo was down the Walworth Road, near the Elephant & Castle. Interesting place.

FIFY. I saw a 'kick boxer' get into the wring with a Thai Boxer [b]once[/b]. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Thai <Edit> boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

Well that's conclusive proof for you if ever there was.

Fighting isn't about the discipline, it's about the fighter, but then you knew that already.

geetee1972 - Member

FIFY. I saw a 'kick boxer' get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Thai <Edit> boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

Did he shout "stop hitting yourself! stop hitting yourself!"

Interesting thread but, all a bit weird since the OP is going to karate because his kids are.

Oh, slightly take issue with the comment about tai chi being an internal art; it can be and it's often described as such but that's a matter of style and tuition, I did very applied wu style and for every move we learned how it could be used to **** someone up or stop someone from ****ing you up, lots of pushing hands and opposed postures. And absolutely no mumbo jumbo. Bus stop tai chi, he called it, suddenly you discover that your handwaving puts someone in a headlock or breaks a hold. Still very light contact o'course compared to most.

(I went to another class, the teacher said things like "Right, try and push me over- you can't, because I have rooted my qi to the ground and the flow is too great for you". My wu style teacher said "You can't push me over because my weight's lower than yours, my legs are bent and strong, my feet are planted and I'm leaning into you"

Did karate for several years as a kid. Now do Tae Kwon Do with my kids and will be going for my black belt in 6 months. For me TKD is much better for self defence than karate.

It's all fun though and that's what counts.

Not Sensei George Andrews was it by any chance? In the old marble factory?

Now that's a bit spooky! Yes. I started at uni in Sheffield for three years then moved to London and trained at the original Marble Factory. When it burned down I helped build the new dojo on the Heygate Estate, which has now also been demolished. I heard that Sensei George had rellocated again.

Lordy how do you know Sensei George? I stopped training a long time ago but this is the third time recently that I have crossed paths with someone from that past!

What I meant was that people getting into Karate should probably do so for the social/fitness/recreation and for want of a better word "holistic" aspects of the art as opposed to fighting. There are better arts for that.

OK that was my mistake. Apologies for being dismissive.

I saw a 'kick boxer' get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once.

Did he hang him out to dry...?

How come you picked Karate?

The kids do it in PE at school and it is a school club run by the head. Also it is 100m from our house, so getting there couldn't be easier.

I only went to watch but Sensei Kath told me to take off shoes and socks and get stuck in. I wasn't really in a position to refuse.

There are 3 other parents in the group. Two brown and one blue. I'm still at the Humvees and T-shirt end of the room with the little kids. At the moment it is all moves and kata for us, but the bigger kids do some bag and pad work.

Really enjoy it. Especially the stretching, which I'm comically bad at.

For Rusty90:

[url= http://www.otgka.co.uk/the-marble-factory.html ]Memories of the Marble Factory[/url]

You should have a powerful side kick and back kick from all the cycling

Might need to just aim for the knee though

My side and back kick are pretty strong, but it's the push kicks and 45 degree turning kicks where the real power comes in.

45 degree turning kicks

Do you mean round house, or in Japanese, Mawashi Geri?

Lordy how do you know Sensei George?

I assume he does mean that but I dont do TKW - IIRC he has only been doing it for a few years so he is either awesome or they grade quick if he is nearing Black belt

I think I know which one he will say

I like death by press up as a phrase.

We used to have a guy who would ask if the move would really work in a fight

This invariably resulted in sensai saying ok attack me then pole axing him....he never learnt and we would all wince when he said it as we knew what was coming.

If you want a strong kick, squats for strength and cleans for explosive power.

There are 3 other parents in the group. Two brown and one blue.

Do you mean round house, or in Japanese, Mawashi Geri?

No, I mean a 45 degree turning kick from TKD. As in the first one of this combo.

They do grade quickly in TKD, 3 months for the first 5 belts, then 6 months minimum up until black then it goes 1yr, 2yrs, 3yrs, 4yrs, 5yrs,.....

Wow, this is so cool Rusty! I confess it is so long since I stopped (around 2003 as a result of going back to uni) but there isn't a day goes by where I don't think of Sensei George at least once! Sadly, from what i have learnt recently, he seems to have falled out with a lot of people politically recently. Even Sensei Linda (you must remember her; she was a force of nature as well and the person I think I respected the most in that world. She recently reached the rank of seventh dan!) has left him. It's very sad.

So Hampstead, I'm trying to think, who was the instructor?

I started there in 1995 so I don't think we will have overlapped. The warm ups, LOL yes, did he have you do 'star jumps'? Not the sort others might think of but what the Royal Marines call 'bastards'. 100 of those, 100 push ups and 100 sit ups with 10 minutes running before training started!

Same kick as he means just a different name

That is fast grading and Karate has 10 steps [Kyu] to Black

Memories of the Marble Factory

So Hampstead, I'm trying to think, who was the instructor?

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarr

In a crowded pub when approached by two perps do you quickly remove your shoes and ask everyone to standback to allow you to swing your legs? 😆

This was confirmed when our 'grand master' at wing chun got punched in the face by a student because he punched him with the 'wrong hand'.

Reminds me of a ju jitsu club I briefly went to. When I asked what would happen if you were attacked by someone not right-handed, the high grade I was training with replied "you avoid the blow and then use the technique when they strike with their right", or words to that effect. I stopped going after that.

Back to the point though, if it works and you enjoy it, go for it OP. I've dabbled in various styles a few times, but stopped after an op and then a car crash a few years ago. We've since moved and have become parents; I miss it and want to get back into it, so look forward to taking the nippette when she's old enough.

[i]Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarr [/i]

Hiya!

[img] [/img]

Oh Hora, there had to be someone and it had to be you 😀

That is fast grading and Karate has 10 steps [Kyu] to Black

There are 10 steps to Black in TKD too (at least in ITF (TAGB)). It's just they rattle through the lower belts at a rapid rate.

[img] [/img]

My daughter has been doing it for a few years now and just got her red belt - it's been of great benefit to her.

As long as they enjoy it, most martial arts can be of benefit to kids.

Same kick as he means just a different name

Nope.

Roundhouse or mawashi geri equivalent would be the full turning kick.

There are 10 steps to Black in TKD too (at least in ITF (TAGB)). It's just they rattle through the lower belts at a rapid rate.

In Wado Ryu. I remember it being white, yellow, green, blue, purple, brown, black, black show off levels (from memory).

In a crowded pub when approached by two perps do you quickly remove your shoes and ask everyone to standback to allow you to swing your legs?

No, probably something like this (at 20 seconds) For reference this is Sensei George Andrews teaching hand to hand combat to Spetznas, KGB and Kremlin Bodygaurds in Moscow around 1989 (i.e. before the fall of comunism).

Have you got a better video of the first kick then [ and a bit slower] pr a description online?
ta

I know nothing of TKD

[i]this is Sensei George Andrews teaching hand to hand combat to Spetznas, KGB and Kremlin Bodygaurds[/i]

a tool of the repression then?

(not sure if I ought to add a smiley or not, really, it's a semi serious point - why get involved in teaching the bully boys of a repressive state how to hurt people that the state considers enemies?)

I think there are two schools of TKD. There is the traditional school, which seems to have a lot in common with Shotokan and the northern styles of kung fu. And then there is the tripe you see at the Olympics, which is just so utterly embarrasing as to be painful to watch. It has no more to do with 'martial art' than tig in the school playground does.

JY - 45 version the hips stop roughly 45 degrees from perpendicular to the opponent. Turning kick goes to fully perpendicular. 45 is good in sparring as it is quick to kick to just above the belt. Turning kick is good for a head shot once you've moved their guard by doing some other technique. TKD is a kicking art so there is a ridiculous number of kicks in it and a lot of them are very similar.

Ta for that so sort of like a close knee to the body whilst in prime but a kick at distance ish. I assume its done to be quicker to the ribs

Will ask my instructor what the name is but not a kick we practise but what we do when tired and get told off 😉

(not sure if I ought to add a smiley or not, really, it's a semi serious point - why get involved in teaching the bully boys of a repressive state how to hurt people that the state considers enemies?)

Same reason anyone does. Power and influence. I know what you mean though. It was controversial but there's always going to be demand for that kind of expertise. Out of interest, if I'd said 'MI6/5, SAS/SBS and CO19' would it have been different?

I trained quite a bit with a high ranking FSB officer (who was obviously former KGB, though by the time I met him the Soviet Union had collapsed) who was Chief Instructor for Russia so would come over a lot to train. I won't ever forget the vacant look he would give you; not vacant as in he's not there, vacant as in you're not there. He'd just look straight through you, like you didn't matter. It was horrible in all honesty.

I was sparing with him one time and felt hugely intimidated af first. But then I realised he just wasn't trying. I suddenly had the impression that he didn't feel like sparing with me was worth his time or effort. So I hit him pretty hard, enough to rattle his teeth and wake him up anyway then shat myself as the look on his face changed. Then I heard Sensei George roaring with laughter and shouting at him 'Cawm own c***'.

And then there is the tripe you see at the Olympics, which is just so utterly embarrasing as to be painful to watch

That is WTF - World Taeknwondo Federation.

The 'proper'* one is ITF - International Taekwondo Federation.

*no offence to people who do WTF - but WTF are those chest/body guards about!?

geetee1972

No, probably something like this (at 20 seconds)

If you're very lucky.

For reference this is Sensei George Andrews teaching hand to hand combat to Spetznas, KGB and Kremlin Bodygaurds in Moscow around 1989 (i.e. before the fall of comunism).

You have to wonder why when Sambo is the main fighting art of the Russian security forces.

I assume its done to be quicker to the ribs

You have to wonder why when Sambo is the main fighting art of the Russian security forces.

Because like most elite military units around the world, you take what you can get from everone that has something valuable to offer.

[i]if I'd said 'MI6/5, SAS/SBS and CO19' would it have been different? [/i]

at that time probably and now certainly.

whatever JHJ says we don't have state suppression of dissent and minorities (ethinic, sexual, polically) in the way that the USSR and now Russia did and do. The organisations you name are at the heart of that apparatus and anything that contributes to and furthers their activities and aims is a step too far, imo.

The organisations you name are at the heart of that apparatus and anything that contributes to and furthers their activities and aims is a step too far, imo.

So very true and for the record I completely agree with your point.

I never felt comfortable about it. I was told once how this chap (the FSB officer) had decided he couldn't be bothered to run back to the dojo from the frozen wilderness they had been dropped in (my instructor was with him at the time) so he simply stopped a car on the road and turfed the owner out using his 'credentials' to do so.

The story was told as a funny annecdote but I never thought it remotely funny.

This is our style of TKD