[Closed] Just received a PCN...

Devils advocate....How are people who use a wheelchair that have just got off the bus meant to get on the footpath once they’ve crossed the road with you parked there?

That’s pedantic for sure. Unles they’re trying to get you for anything in relation to blocking the power thing behind the van / the proximity to the corner....

Blocking a wheelchair crossing...

I assume it's dropped for road crossing wheelchair access, particularly with the adjacent bus stop, not for "access to a three foot high wall".

Where’s this wheelchair crossing referenced above then - didn’t know there was such a thing in law? 🤣

Kerb's been lowered for wheelchair s in several locations.

Pay up and move on.

Hanging's too good for you.

Dropped footways are also for wheeled pavement users to cross @cougar - buggies, wheelchairs etc. That's why there's another directly opposite.
EDIT you lot are too fast.

Yeah, as above wheelchairs, buggies all that stuff, it's a fair cop in my book

It's not dropped for vehicle access, (clearly) but to allow for wheelchairs, coffin dodgers or the like to cross the road more easily. So I'd say yes, banged to rights.

Edit - basically what all the 150 words per minute gang up there 👆 said. 🙄

If you were parked directly in front of the dropped kerb you'd probably be parked too close to the junction causing a hazard to those pulling out of it due to bad visibility.

Parking within 10metres of a junction
Leaving your car close to a junction makes it difficult and dangerous for unsighted drivers to pull out from or turn into the side road. Pedestrians can also be put at risk because of the restricted view this type of inconsiderate parking causes. Rule 243 of the Highway Code states you must not park opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space.

What’s the penalty: It is possible you will get a non-endorsable fixed penalty of £50–£100 for causing an unnecessary obstruction. If an accident occurs it’s likely you’ll be taking a large proportion of the blame – and be fined accordingly.

You monster. I hope you get gingivitis of the bottom.

It was a fairly quiet side street at 3:41pm and I’d been there less than 15 minutes. Feels an awful lot like a money-maker to me, I wonder if the “Civil Enforcement Officer” is a curtain-twitcher on that street?

Entitled motorist speak.You should be made to scrap the moss off that wall as community service.

With his tongue 😠

I once saw a woman pushing someone in a wheelchair heavily laden with disability support gear down a busy main road. I stopped and asked if she needed help - she said that someone had parked in front of the drop kerb and she had to get to the next one as she couldn't get the heavy chair up the normal kerb.

I feel that this is not quite panning out as Cougs had envisioned.

Aye, bang to rights there I'm afraid, suck it up.

Whilst technically correct,

Busted.

But there isn't a dropped kerb directly opposite. The dropped kerbs there are all over the place.

I’d also say fair cop, but also that you were pretty unlucky.

There’s a dropped kerb just in front of the bus stop, probably 0.5m out of being directly opposite

Devils advocate….How are people who use a wheelchair that have just got off the bus meant to get on the footpath once they’ve crossed the road with you parked there?

Ah, I hadn't thought about that. Again though, devil's advocate: that being the case it's pretty shit infrastructure. Why isn't there a crossing?

That’s why there’s another directly opposite.

There's one - actually, there's quite a few now I've looked - on the other side but neither are 'directly opposite' at all. If you got off the bus you'd have to wheel in front of it, push out into near-blind traffic, cross the road and then wheel past that van (which is always parked there, and blocking most of the pavement) to get to the other kerb. Going the other way isn't much better. That's not just poor design, it's dangerous.

Oh, I don't know. Do the crime, and all that. I'm just a bit aggrieved at the speed it happened, someone was surely just waiting for someone to do it. If there were signs up, or a crossing, or double-yellows, or something then I wouldn't have done it. I just assumed the kerb was legacy street furniture for a driveway that no longer existed.

Tbh the double yellows should just be painted further along, would stop that van parking there too

They don't need to be directly opposite. The rules governing the placement are complex and arcane.

Yes pay up I m afraid, my dad got done so I am ultra careful. Saying that I parked across one once and a lady resident in nearby house said I would be booked in 5 mins.

Seems a lot of people are caught and targets have to be met.

I feel that this is not quite panning out as Cougs had envisioned.

Mate, I've been here for like ten years or something. It's panning out exactly as I envisioned.

If you were parked directly in front of the dropped kerb you’d probably be parked too close to the junction causing a hazard to those pulling out of it due to bad visibility.

Didn't see a ticket on the van behind. Which has been parked there every time I've looked.

Irrelevant anyway, that's not what it says on the ticket.

It’s panning out exactly as I envisioned.

In which case, you deserve everything you get 😉

Van behind was probably more than 10m from the junction! 🤪🤪

Anyway - what if a baby robin wanted to cross there.

Amazingly wheelchair users are able, entitled and sometimes want to cross roads at an angle! Craziness I know.

You've been caught bang to rights but there is also a dose of bad luck that an Enforcement car or person has been there at that time. We have little cars with cameras that go around Cardiff all day catching people for this exact thing and they can flash past in less than a second but still catch lot of people daily. Lots of complaints about them but at the end of the day the rules are there for a reason.

If you got off the bus you’d have to wheel in front of it, push out into near-blind traffic, cross the road and then wheel past that van (which is always parked there, and blocking most of the pavement) to get to the other kerb. Going the other way isn’t much better. That’s not just poor design, it’s dangerous.

You wait till the bus is gone and the van shouldn't be parked there.

Not poor design, poor parking.

Poor design is the solid white line, hatched boxes that are painted in front of my driveways to stop people parking there.
It's an offence to even enter them in a vehicle.
An offence which I wilfully commit thousands of times a year.

also a dose of bad luck that an Enforcement car or person has been there at that time

There's double-yellows near where I live, right next to a chip shop. I've never seen an 'enforcement car' there, they'd make the GDP of a lesser African nation over a lunchtime when the chippie was open.

I'm half-tempted to go back another day and see how quickly it happens again. It'd almost be worth £35 to see just how much influence "luck" actually had to do with anything.

There’s a dropped kerb just in front of the bus stop, probably 0.5m out of being directly opposite

Yep - not directly opposite as then busses could block its use so it is as directly opposite as is practical in the circumstances.

Not poor design, poor parking.

It's both.

If there were signs up, or a crossing, or double-yellows, or something then I wouldn’t have done it.

But the dropped kerb is enough - it is (without even having to look to check if I am correct) a rule in the Highway Code that you cannot park across a dropped kerb - surely you know that?

legacy street furniture for a driveway that no longer existed

That has to be a HMHB lyric

Yep banged to rights but do feel you've been rather unlucky, there's plenty of worse parking around there. Pay up move on.

Personally I'd change the whole enforcement regime to make it proper money making and pay for the enforcement actions, dropped kerbs, hydrants, too close to junctions, parking on the pavement (only applicable in London but should be everywhere), parking on the pavement behind double yellows, parking on a road with a solid central white line if it means a passing vehicle has to cross the white line, bus bays, zig zags outside the takeaway (fatal food poisoning is too good for them), double yellows, single yellows, no loading zones, taxi ranks, bus stops, loading bays, disabled bays.

If we have rules we should enforce them, if we don't believe they should be enforced we should scrap them.

Wait to the private sector is allowed to enforce them!!!!!! It's coming.

There's dropped kerbs either end of the bus stop. Putting one in the middle, would have the bus drivers liable for a PCN every time they stopped for passengers

surely you know that?

Of course I know that. You can be done for parking across your own driveway, even.

As I said, I assumed - incorrectly, it would seem now - that whatever purpose it once served no longer applied, so it wouldn't matter. It simply didn't occur to me that it might be there as an accessibility feature, very ableist of me I know.

There’s dropped kerbs either end of the bus stop.

Why don't the ones on the other side line up with them?

Putting one in the middle, would have the bus drivers liable for a PCN every time they stopped for passengers

Untrue.

I had a similar thing last year when I got a ticket for parking across my own driveway. Dropped kerb, single yellow line. I understood why I got the ticket, but it's my own driveway, I wasn't blocking anyone in. What I expected was that they would realise this when I appealed and drop the PCN, maybe add me to some kind of list to say that my reg is linked to that address so don't issue PCN if parked across drive. That's what I expected - some common sense. What I got, and didn't expect was a refusal with a peevish reply which had nothing to do with the initial "offense". Something like "Yeah but, but you were also parked up on the kerb and pregnant women can't get through and disabled people blah blah". Literally wheels up on kerb, not blocking the pavement at all, I hate that and would never do it.

So what I learned was that, by all means appeal, but don't expect your appeal to be dealt with by a grown up. Rather a peevish, spiteful child with too much power.

Best of luck! You massive, massive criminal.

Of course I know that.

But you thought you'd risk it because you assumed it would be okay? Harsh on you but you know you have no hope of successfully challenging the PCN.

You left your car unattended in Padiham. Just be grateful you've still got it and pay up;)

I've done the same without really realising at the time. Probably made me think about it a bit more to be fair. There's no comeback, it's clearly illegal and for good reason.

There's actually a dropped curb on a cycle route near me and there's a car parked in front of it on a daily basis. Not a problem ordinarily but not ideal when towing a child trailer. Imagine riding a recumbent or one of those disability scooters... Just because you yourself don't understand it doesn't mean it's not inconveniencing people or even putting them in danger. Cough up and chalk it up to one of life's lessons.

So what I learned was that, by all means appeal, but don’t expect your appeal to be dealt with by a grown up. Rather a peevish, spiteful child with too much power.

Best of luck! You massive, massive criminal.

:-p

Which council was that, out of interest?

Why don’t the ones on the other side line up with them?

I reckon it's something to do with many boring and complicated road design rules all coming together - they can't have one directly opposite, because of the location of the bus stop, which is governed by the length of the bus and the size of the block. They can't have it opposite the one to the right of the bus stop because of the sub-station on your side of the street. They can't have one on the other side of the road bang in line with the middle of the junction for the street of new houses. So the one you parked in front of ends up in the middle of nowhere, serving the two either side of the bus stop.

But you thought you’d risk it because you assumed it would be okay?

It didn't really enter my head that there was anything to 'risk'. I'm not one of these "I'll only be a minute so it's OK" double-yellow parkers, I try to be considerate when I'm parking (which is another thread I need to do, but anyway). It was a genuine mistake, I thought it wasn't in use.

You left your car unattended in Padiham.

Hush, you.

I live here now. It's nice. Except at 3:41pm on a Friday.

Which council was that, out of interest?

Stalingrad.

EDIT: I mean Sheffield.

A genuine error, they do happen. my last parking ticket was also like that. A wide stretch of pavement with what I believed to be a parking area on it, yellow lines on the road, apparently the lines on the road also apply to the pavement, I genuinely had no idea, pavement wasn't blocked as there is a full size pavement to the side of where the car was. I paid up and learned my lesson, I won't park there again or anywhere like it.

I reckon it’s something to do with many boring and complicated road design rules all coming together

You're probably right, to be fair. If you look at the timeline view on Google Maps you can see it without the van. I can't see why it couldn't be a couple of metres further back, it'd align better and wouldn't foul the substation access. But yeah, there's probably some "must be x feet from y" regulations and I'm not a town planner.

What it needs is a proper goddamn crossing somewhere.

With zig-zags you can park on? 😜

Stalingrad

Well, I laughed. Thanks for that.

This is one is apparently on behalf of Lancashire CC. My experiences in dealing with Burnley council (who cover Padiham) thus far have been... not great, but LCC might be a little more human? Who knows.

Not so interesting fact. Park on double yellows, you get a few minutes grace from the parking warden. Park in front of a dropped kerb, or on the footway, they don't need to wait and will ticket immediately.

As a utility worker, if you are working in the street you won't normally get tickets. Stand inside the customers door and you are then fair game. I have a note saying I'm working in the street on my dashboard, I've come back to my van a few times to an annoyed warden who has done a full lap of the block looking for me (whilst I was working inside for 20 minutes). I've also had tickets whilst working inside my van preparing kit in the dry. (mobile workshop).

Wardens also stick to their routes and don't seem to notice if you park up in a city centre pedestrianised zone (when there is legitimate access for loading but is too cheeky for lazy shoppers)

If ever a thread needed an @Jamie graphic

I wonder if the “Civil Enforcement Officer” is a curtain-twitcher on that street?

There's a more obvious suspect:

Yes. Sheffield council are famously anti-car. They want us all crammed in to the unreliable expensive covid-wagons that take you nowhere near where you actually want to go.

Christmas shopping a few years back and I see a van pull out leaving me the perfect parking space outside the very shop I wanted to go into. I pull into the space and put my blue badge, correctly displayed, in the window. I go into the shop, collect the pre-ordered item and get back to the car in less than 5 minutes to find a PCN on the windscreen.

I drive home ready to write a stiffly worded letter of complaint but spot a URL where you could see the photo of the violation.

Turns out I was parked in a motorcycle parking area and it was written in big clear letters on the ground next to my car. I hadn't seen it pulling in because the van pulling out obscured it. Annoying but valid so I had to pay up.

Appalling behaviour.
Sorry Cougar I'm going to have to ask Disney+ to drop you from all their shows.

There's a bus stop in front of our house. No yellow lines or anything like that. When we moved in, about 5 years ago, there was no dropped kerb. We levelled the garden to build a drive and paid to get planning permission for a dropped kerb, slightly to the side of the bus stop, and had it installed.
I had no idea, until today, that I could get a ticket for parking outside my own house because of something that I paid to have installed.

And yet the van around the corner is on double yellows, oh and a dropped curb lol

Again though, devil’s advocate: that being the case it’s pretty shit infrastructure. Why isn’t there a crossing?

There is. As described in the DfT "Manual for Streets", it's an uncontrolled crossing consisting of dropped kerbs.

where you driving a singletrack audi then, if so thats the problem.

Not so interesting fact. Park on double yellows, you get a few minutes grace from the parking warden. Park in front of a dropped kerb, or on the footway, they don’t need to wait and will ticket immediately.

London, then?

where you driving a singletrack audi

(-: Honda, these days.

Also, I think they can administer punishment remotely. I remember sitting in a bar in Derby, looking out the window at a warden who was lurking behind a corner. He kept peeping out furtively like a little rodent before tapping into his device thing. ?

If you're going down take this tyre kicker around the corner with you

I paid up and learned my lesson,

That's not the attitude!

Again though, devil’s advocate: that being the case it’s pretty shit infrastructure. Why isn’t there a crossing?

That made me laugh. Have you ever tried using a cycle path in the UK?

You’ve clearly learned you’re lesson and taught a fair few of us about dropped kerbs so the ticket has been quite effective! I’d appeal, with the truth that you thought it was disused and but after checking realised your mistake and won’t do it again. You’ve absolutely nothing to lose as the clock stops. Just pay up if they reject the appeal.

Note: This all relies on a Tom Hanks stylee adjudicator who gets all teary-eyed and stares in to space about your honesty and then gives you that break

I've nothing to lose other than them doubling the fine. I think that's what I'm going to do though, try and appeal to their better nature, assuming they have one.

As mentioned drops kerbs are also for wheelchair access, if you parked in front of it you have case for an appeal.

try and appeal to their better nature

First you assume that infrastructure might be properly planned and now you hope that traffic enforcement might have a 'better nature'. Money to burn for the LOLs there 🤣

What grounds for the appeal?

very ableist of me I know

i always knew you were a nasty piece of work.

2 dropped curbs up our road both with walls behind. People regularly get ticketed there and it's entirely appropriate I'm afraid.

The use of these is very apparent in our road as there is some social housing (little 50's bungalows, you know the sort of thing) for the elderly/infirm.

Unfortunately I'd probably say paying up is the best bet though an appeal freezes the payment period I think so you could try I guess?

appeal to their better nature, assuming they have one.

I'm guessing you don't work in law.

Cougar
Full Member
I’ve nothing to lose other than them doubling the fine. I think that’s what I’m going to do though, try and appeal to their better nature, assuming they have one.

Better nature, it can happen.

Twice ive parked in disabled bays and forgotten to put the disabled badge up on the dash. Appealed fine explaining that it was an honest mistake as is been getting the wheel chair out of the car, helping mum out of the car etc etc and simply forgotten.

Slightly harsh wording in their reply but they did let me off the fines.

i always knew you were a nasty piece of work.

He really isn't and I'd say that whether he was a mod or not, though the wording you refer to isn't great I'll admit.

i always knew you were a nasty piece of work.

I’ve met Cougar and honestly he’s one of the nicest guys I’ve met.

I reckon it’s something to do with many boring and complicated road design rules all coming together

How about the ones over the road are at either end of a bus when it’s at the bus stop?

I’ve met Cougar and honestly he’s one of the nicest guys I’ve met.

should have put a 😀 or 😉

just joking folks. but you know. what a monster. 😉