Dear god, labour really aren't going to be a credible threat to this government for a long time, are they, it's depressing how far away we are from having a real opposition who can potentially make the tories actually think before they act, or reap any repercussions.
Whilst I'm not a Labour Fan Boy, they have consistently lead in every national poll since November, even with the usual bounce that Ukraine has delivered to whoever's in charge during an international crisis they're still ahead.
https://twitter.com/britainelects
Whilst a degree of skeptism in polling is healthy, if an Election was held right now then the Data suggests either a narrow Labour majority or a possible Lab/Lib arragement (Just don't call it a 'coalition' whatever you do).
In my book that's a 'credible threat'.. and that's before everyone's tax bills go up next month.
it’s depressing how far away we are from having a real opposition who can potentially make the tories actually think before they act, or reap any repercussions.
To be fair, no politician who ever lived could sit opposite this Tory government with an 80 seat majority and either make them think or bring about repercussions. They're still whanging on about Corbyn, for heaven's sake.
I admire Angela Raynor. She does a pretty good job of keeping up with the public-school-boy-deliberately-exclusionary Westminster system.
+1 for Angela. I love the way she looks at the Tories opposite with pure hatred. I bet she could beat any of them in a fight, too ...
supernova
Free Member
I admire Angela Raynor. She does a pretty good job of keeping up with the public-school-boy-deliberately-exclusionary Westminster system.
Very much agree with that.👍
Whilst I’m not a Labour Fan Boy, they have consistently lead in every national poll since November,
They mean nothing outside of an election year, or even outside of the final days of an election, always have been unfortunately.
I admire Angela Raynor. She does a pretty good job of keeping up with the public-school-boy-deliberately-exclusionary Westminster system.
I'd say she falls into the trap of what you say, making it personal and getting her to show her true feelings, it's what destroyed Corbyn, he couldn't help but use it to try and sell his beliefs.
I think Starmer knows the game, and can handle himself with the chess style responses required, but i don't get any comfort listening to Rayner almost boxing herself in to her principles, it's a party, it is the millions of voters you represent, it just keeps reminding me of trade union folk i've seen over the years.
I’d say she falls into the trap of what you say, making it personal and getting her to show her true feelings, it’s what destroyed Corbyn, he couldn’t help but use it to try and sell his beliefs.
Perish the thought that a politician actually stands up for what they believe in.
Recently listened to James O'Brien's podcast interview with her. Came across very well, and I liked her.
have consistently lead in every national poll since November, even with the usual bounce that Ukraine has delivered to whoever’s in charge during an international crisis they’re still ahead.
Their lead has shrunk hugely in that period and a moderate cynic would say they were only ahead due to the epoch of the Tory Partygate calamity.
Now, that has gone away.
Theat lead was a one off based on an absolutely despicable and incompetent government.
Labour have never delivered anything to actively put themselves ahead in the last two years.
Labour and Starmer are invisible.
I personally think Rayner is too shackled and confused to be of any use
I'm pretty sure she has a dungeon, gets my vote.
A woman powering over you in a dungeon, you would be better suited as a tory voter I would think.
She got the better of a sneering, patronising Dominic Raab, and a couple of months ago when she stood in for Starmer against Johnson she showed him for what he is - a corrupt, lying, useless and greedy narcissist.
Why, what actually happened?
What do you think she should be doing or saying that she isn't OP?
+1 for Angela. I love the way she looks at the Tories opposite with pure hatred. I bet she could beat any of them in a fight, too …
I'm sure she won't like the comparison, but Starmer/Rayner is very much a Blair/Prescott double act. Pretty sure she'd punch any idiot who tried it on.
So first of all, I’m not a keen follower of politics so this is just my observation….
Personally I thought she did very well against Raab today. But she is very much a northerner (I was brought up not far from her). I can see how some people and voters may not like how she comes across.
In my view though she’s passionate about her work for the people and this shows.
she showed him for what he is – a corrupt, lying, useless and greedy narcissist.
Hardly a revelation.
I just can’t see her changing to suit what is needed to contest the next election, it’s constantly about the opposition and negativity rather than about their opinion and pushing bounds to gain potential voters.
It’s nothing about her or her principles, it’s just she seems like a one trick pony, which won’t really help at an election, as things like principles tend to be a weakness in quick fire interviews and open forums.
I really admire Angela Rayner. I think it's great that she's actually a real human being who's had real life experience. And say what you like about her but Johnson hates her for just these reasons. He's clearly terrified of facing her, and with good reason. When he has had to face her she always tears him a new one.
In any sane country we'd have more like her but unfortunately we're a nation of cap-doffers who mistake accents and affectations for intelligence and have a horrible ingrained snobbery which means that anyone outside a certain privileged, elite caste is simply dismissed in Westminster.
I do agree that she's essentially a female Jon Prescott to Starmers Blair. She's probably got a similar right hook
wot he said
I really admire Angela Rayner. I think it’s great that she’s actually a real human being who’s had real life experience. And say what you like about her but Johnson hates her for just these reasons
Yes.
But
it’s constantly about the opposition and negativity rather than about their opinion and pushing bounds to gain potential voters.
Is how it comes across, or is reported as coming across - Brexit, Covid, now the Ukraine crisis have given Labour a great chance to make a pitch for support for a different, fairer and more equitable society, as happened after WW2, and I'm not hearing that coming across or being reported, if it is actually what they are saying.
They need to be pointing out that 30 of the last 40 years have been under Tory rule and if you aren't now living in the sunlit uplands you should be able to figure out who to blame.
A lot of people will have a negative gut reaction her because she sounds "Northern"... almost as much as they would if she sounded Welsh, or Scottish...
I think she did well today. But Raab just ignored the pertinent questions as regards Russia, Saudi Arabia and energy, and rattled on about Corbyn instead.
I think it’s great that she’s actually a real human being who’s had real life experience. And say what you like about her but Johnson hates her for just these reasons. He’s clearly terrified of facing her, and with good reason. When he has had to face her she always tears him a new one.
What real life experiences are you raising above others though, I keep seeing this, but how does this appeal to those who aren’t already labour voters?
As for boris, she again always falls into the trap of making it personal, which he plays for, it’s lucky he isn’t more competent at this as he thinks he is!
how does this appeal to those who aren’t already labour voters?
Good question, I don't think it does but it may help maintain some.
What real life experiences are you raising above others though
Have a read of her biog. Its about as far removed from Boris Johnson as it's possible to be while still technically being the same species
You'll surely see something there thats a bit more worthy of respect than just fulfilling the pre-ordained destiny of an entitled member of the elite?
I'd imagine that making it to be an MP, having been a single mother at 16 with no qualifications in Stockport is a tougher gig than smashing up restaurants and sending your fag to pay off the little person for the damage, then daddy's contacts laying out the red carpet for your career progression
I keep seeing this, but how does this appeal to those who aren’t already labour voters?
It won't. But it should. Just to repeat:
Unfortunately we’re a nation of cap-doffers who mistake accents and affectations for intelligence and have a horrible ingrained snobbery which means that anyone outside a certain privileged, elite caste is simply dismissed in Westminster.
I’ve read her blog, I know the past and i know how her move into the trade unions drove where she is now, but how does that make her more apt at being an MP than most others, or more entitled to respect?
A woman powering over you in a dungeon, you would be better suited as a tory voter I would think.
Keith Vaz, "hold my beer"
you're not doing very well at hiding your prejudices
In any sane country we’d have more like her but unfortunately we’re a nation of cap-doffers who mistake accents and affectations for intelligence and have a horrible ingrained snobbery which means that anyone outside a certain privileged, elite caste is simply dismissed in Westminster.
nailed it
almost as much as they would if she sounded Welsh, or Scottish…
Gordon Brown sounded Scottish, so did Alistair Darling, didn't hold them back much
ElShalimo
Full Memberyou’re not doing very well at hiding your prejudices
I’m not doing well at hiding my disdain for watching labour think that if they keep doing the same thing over again they’ll get a different result.
A lot of people will have a negative gut reaction her because she sounds “Northern”
A lot of people will also have a negative gut reaction to her being in power because she's a woman, as evidenced by some of the posts on here.
In any sane country we’d have more like her but unfortunately we’re a nation of cap-doffers who mistake accents and affectations for intelligence and have a horrible ingrained snobbery which means that anyone outside a certain privileged, elite caste is simply dismissed in Westminster.
Name the country where regional accents aren't associated with intelligence and an ingrained snobbery
. But she is very much a northerner (I was brought up not far from her). I can see how some people and voters may not like how she comes across.
I really admire Angela Rayner. I think it’s great that she’s actually a real human being who’s had real life experience. And say what you like about her but Johnson hates her for just these reasons.
I guess it depends on the number of voters from the home counties who might see her as rough around the edges v's the rest of the country who are few up with politicians come from the same oxbridge mould?
A lot of people will also have a negative gut reaction to her being in power because she’s a woman, as evidenced by some of the posts on here.
Surprisingly a labour problem,
Name the country where regional accents aren’t associated with intelligence and an ingrained snobbery
Does it matter what happens in other countries, in this respect?
Does it matter what happens in other countries, in this respect?
Statement was a comparison of the UK with any sane country.
Does it matter what happens in other countries, in this respect?
Statement was a comparison of the UK with any sane country.
Makes sense now! 😀
As we enter page 2, and this is now less about PMQs, and more about the person, is it time to rename the thread as "Angela Rayner!" to match the format of the other politicians?
Gordon Brown sounded Scottish, so did Alistair Darling, didn’t hold them back much
Yes, it did. Are we ignoring the 2010 election?
Loved that Catherine Tate sketch by the way … “she sounds awful angry”… reminds me … Rayner showing passion at PMQs gets acknowledged in a very different manner to Johnson doing so, doesn’t it.
Gordon Brown sounded Scottish, so did Alistair Darling, didn’t hold them back much
Isn't there a certain type of Scottish accent that's generally acceptable in polite company? Billy Connolly has had things to say about it in the past.
is it time to rename the thread as “Angela Rayner!” to match the format of the other politicians?
I think you'll find it's supposed to be
Angela! Raynor!
Although, given that the mods are pretty hot on closing duplicate threads, it' a bit surprising that the various Politician! Name! threads are all still running separately, as they're all populated by the same people having the same arguments...
Rayner showing passion at PMQs gets acknowledged in a very different manner to Johnson doing so, doesn’t it.
Johnson comes across as insincere and sneering, always has, Cameron was probably the best at questions in the last few years.
Starmer always sounds like a slightly exasperated headmaster disappointed with his boneheaded sixth formers when he’s explaining how the world works to the braying goons opposite.
[crass]I think she’s a red headed hottie[/crass]
Right, here we go. I was going to report this, as I think (well, I think I think) that it's an example of the ingrained/subconscious misogyny that pervades our society and politics - a woman is far more likely to be judged on how she looks than a man, and people are more likely to pass an opinion of how a woman looks than they would of a man.
But then, I wasn't sure if I was being a bit of a hand-wringer, and I thought that it might be worthy of discussion in itself.
So, do we think comments like that are out of order?
**EDIT - and I see a picture has now been added, in case we didn't know what she looked like. That certainly backs up my initial hunch.
So, do we think comments like that are out of order?
Is the comment relevant to the discussion? If no, then it's not needed.
I would agree IHN, but then most of us judge, and comment, about Bozo and his appearance, admittedly not in a misogynistic way
Name the country where regional accents aren’t associated with intelligence and an ingrained snobbery
Not sure it qualifies as a sane country, but the USA has leaders with a variety of accents.
I would agree IHN, but then most of us judge, and comment, about Bozo and his appearance, admittedly not in a misogynistic way
Phwoarr, look at him! I would, if he'd only brush his hair.
It's crass and unnecessary.
As we enter page 2, and this is now less about PMQs, and more about the person, is it time to rename the thread as “Angela Rayner!” to match the format of the other politicians?
But to the original OP, what actually occurred?
Well, that's two valuable additions to the discussion then.
But to the original OP, what actually occurred?
Think it’s been said a couple of times now, just seems like labour is in a time loop and without a credible opposition we might have boris for years, well until the next Tory coup, Christ even priti could win an election as it stands 😟
I wondered how long it would be before this thread degraded to comments on her appearance. Heavy Sigh.
I'm just constantly flabbergasted that any of the electorate vote Tory, no matter how the other parties perform. Unless the Tory voter is in the top 5% of wealth/privilege, of course, then it makes sense.
Angela Rayner comes across well I think.
Until 10ish years ago ( and due to the scottish situation) I was a lifelong labour supporter never having voted anything else I still want to support labour and want to see a radical progressive government
something about Raynor just puts me right off. I have pondered it and cannot identify what it is. she just sets my teeth on edge I do not loathe her like the Tories of course but I find her highly unlikable.
dunno why.
I really like her. She's a gobby git from Stockport (so am I) but nobodys fool. I grew up there and she reminds me of my female friends from that time. More power to her.
We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum.”
I was annoyed when she was made to apologise for this, I thought that scum was been restrained about the current government and to be fair everything that has come out since she said it has validated what she said.
I really like her. She’s a gobby git from Stockport but nobodys fool. I grew up there and she reminds me of my female friends from that time. More power to her.
The problem is that being gobby doesn't win new votes in the main, it just keeps you popular with those who will vote for you any way, she can't really break away from the momentum / trade union background, even in the big game of politics where you can appear to break away without breaking away, and without that, she and Starmer don't look any closer than they were when they joined together to try and find a solution to keeping the left and centrist elements of labour together.
As for the woman herself, i know not a lot, other than the bio that's online, so yes, it's impressive that after becoming a mother at 16/17 she managed to keep going forward and improving her, and others lot.
They need to step up a bit this year for me, the whole landscape of the world is changing, and it's suiting a tory agenda more than a labour one, Boris i feel will be jettisoned when it's appropriate i feel, which means aiming personally at him all the time is just going to fall flat, there needs to be more than butwhataboutery for them to make real gains.
Surely it's better to have leaders of a political party who appeal to different groups of voters - Starmer will appeal to a certain group of the urban middle class, Rayner more to a Northern working class group which Labour desperately needs to win back. Anyway the topic is about PMQs which is supposed to do what is says on the tin i.e. ask questions of the PM not using it as a platform to announce your policies, and to this end Rayner is an excellent foil to Starmer as the Johnson / Raab don't know how to treat her without being mysoginistic and patronising.
A lot of people will have a negative gut reaction her because she sounds “Northern”… almost as much as they would if she sounded Welsh, or Scottish…
Or from the South of England!
Oh dear big and daft - you do realise I have a northern english accent albeit a fairly posh one
you do realise I have a northern english accent albeit a fairly posh one
'tint right
edit -deleted
A lot of people will have a negative gut reaction her because she sounds “Northern”… almost as much as they would if she sounded Welsh, or Scottish…
I'm quite a Soft Southern shandy and her accent and honest impassioned way of communicating really doesn't put me off at all, we need more of it!
I think regionalism should be seen as increasingly irrelevant, better yet called out when it's spotted. If people really wouldn't vote for a candidate based just on their accent rather than policies then our political system really is broken.
Considering several Northern Constituencies helped a bunch of Etonians/Oxbridge arseholes to the strangest "victory for the working classes" you could imagine a couple of years ago we're living in a very different age in terms of the whole "North/South divide" thing, the inequalities are still there but you can't rely on certain regions remaining Red simply due to traditional voting patterns...
Her barely concealed, simmering hatred of entitled Tory ****s is one of her best qualities IMO, TBH the Blair/Prescott comparison has occured to me before too, I think it's intentional just like in '97 the leader/deputy have roles to play in a GE campaign.
So what we're looking at is the early phases of a strategy to win an election perhaps? And I think Rayner is key to it, SKS is the right person to play the "Statesman" calm, unflappable, able to appear competent and look like PM material to those who are more comfortable with a well spoken chap in a nice suit occupying No.10 (Sexism still ain't dead unfortunately). But Rayner has to keep savaging the Torys for their (many) moral and legal failings, reminding the electorate that they've gone and put a bunch of evil, incompetent bastards in charge, who've lied and stolen from them, but there is now a better option...
I don't see many others on the labour front bench that can play the role she does, and I'm sure the Tory front benchers don't relish facing her when SKS is busy...
Think it’s been said a couple of times now, just seems like labour is in a time loop and without a credible opposition we might have boris for years, well until the next Tory coup, Christ even priti could win an election as it stands
I watched some of PMQ's. The only way someone could watch the performance of Raab and draw conclusions about Raynor is if they've an 'agenda'.
Raab was utterly pathetic - tried to do a distraction as per Johnson's standard approach and failed. Quite frankly if the OP hasn't an 'agenda', then god help us, no wonder the UK is in the state it is in if folk think that Raynor is the problem.
I think it's pretty clear that the OP has an agenda.
@cookeaaa
"I think regionalism should be seen as increasingly irrelevant"
Try living in the north or one of the other countries in the UK and saying that.
ElShalimo
Full Member
I think it’s pretty clear that the OP has an agenda.
And again, as stated many times, my agenda is for the hope of a credible opposition, to at least try and make the current government toe the line.
I do apologise that i disagree with your viewpoint though, hence your continual one liners for anyone who thinks differently to your views on politics.
“I think regionalism should be seen as increasingly irrelevant”
Of course it should. But it isn't.
Check the accents of every PM who has won a general election in your lifetime...
I really like her. She’s a gobby git from Stockport (so am I) but nobodys fool. I grew up there and she reminds me of my female friends from that time. More power to her.
Me too. Really like her I mean. Being neither, gobby, a girl, nor from Stockport. Ok a bit gobby. She's all that and also a sophisticated politician with a strong base in the labour party, and whose obviously authentic er authenticity signals she wont blow with the wind. And clearly she can dance rings round the thick poshos opposite.
Some folks don't like her accent? Tough. And trust me genuine Leeds is sooo much worse.
Edit - Misread it!
I love the way she looks at the Tories opposite with pure hatred. I bet she could beat any of them in a fight, too
Classy. Shes awful
I'd give her and SKS a shot at the PM job in an instant. But then I'm a Northerner so I'd do anything to eject the Etonocracy into an active volcano.
It seems some very disturbed people also don't like her
It seems some very disturbed people also don’t like her
What is it with mid-50's working class blokes (see pick of Stuart Kelly, 53), is it as simple as they feel they've failed in life and think it's everyone else's fault or something else?
ttps://www.****/news/article-10624369/Angela-Rayner-tells-distress-abusive-messages-David-Amess-death.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490
What is it with mid-50’s working class blokes (see pick of Stuart Kelly, 53), is it as simple as they feel they’ve failed in life and think it’s everyone else’s fault or something else?
Think it said he has 50 or so convictions, so I’d guess he’s probably not working class, but I could guess what he’s like, and so does the judge by the sounds of it.
