[Closed] Just had that call with my boss...

Are you saying there is no chance of A ?

We went though a round recently and I went to 90% optionally as opposed to enforced, so far so good with an extra afternoon a week to do what I please with. I am lucky that both my wife and I have worked all the way through this. I do however work for a start-up so the future is uncertain at best. She's also been forced/volunteered but without the option to volunteer or opt out, so forced really, to move onto shifts including Saturdays so it's not ideal at all.

I think many people will feel your pain, option A sounds ok to me, but you need to be able to afford the drop.

Not much else I can do than wish you luck, as most people on here will say, it often works out well for people, but the future ain't exactly rosy at the moment!

Option A and the removal of any 'no compete' clauses in your employment contract if you have one? Gives you the opportunity to do some ad-hoc freelance work.

Gives you the opportunity to do some ad-hoc freelance work.

Doubt it. For the same reason the OP is facing hours cut or redundancy.

I'd be going for the 80% but asking that if I was made redundant in the next 12 months that any working week based calculations would be on the basis I hadn't taken the reduction.

And I'd be sticking to 80% too.

On redundancy I'd want the non compete gone too regardless. As per the dove above.

TBF, if one was 'clearly the teacher’s pet' then they would have just done the redundancy now and kept them on - it seems they are trying to keep you all on if you can accept their offer.

My wife works at an agency too and just went through the same. It was her up against a colleague, she was kept on but now feels bad for her ex co-worker...they've both been on furlough for the last 4 months.

Not a lot of spends at the minute so I imagine a lot of agencies and related companies in the same boat.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

oouch, i feel for you.

Do you think things will pick up again and if so how and when? if you aren't confident it will pick up then s A just the first step? is B also just a first step? have yo got other job options? I think its already become a tough jobs market unfortunately.

Sorry to hear it OP. As you say, others no doubt have it worse, but it never really helps when someone points that out to you!

FWIW I've always had the sense that agency-side can be quite exposed to this kind of downturn; on the flip side it does also bounce back. And as dovebiker says, Option A plus a little branching out into stuff on the side could work for you.

Another vote for Option A. It could give you the chance to look into finding some freelance work and/or enlarge your portfolio of work and/or go riding.

I was put on a four-day week many years ago when things got tough for my then employer. You might feel very differently right now, and yes the 20% salary cut might hurt a little, but I looked on it as an opportunity to do what I wanted to do.

Depending on what your previous salary was and what rate tax you pay, a 20% cut doesn't necessarily result in a 20% reduction in take home.

"One of them who I’ll call X is clearly the teacher’s pet but has been furloughed from the outset (effectively on full pay as employer made good the 20% shortfall). I have little faith that the assessment will be done fairly as think he’ll be kept on regardless even though me and Y have worked through this."

So X has been on "paid holiday", while the rest of you have worked through and they think there is some decision to make here? that sounds bobbins!

my understanding is that by being on furlough you are technically being made redundant, only on a temporary basis? Its a bit rich really, seems there are two groups of people out there.
Ones on paid holiday, who cant moan enough about how bored they are, and others who are run off their feet trying to fit in full working days and full time childcare all at the same time.

Me and OH have (previously, before nursery reopened) been working shifts, up at dawn, work through to lunch, then swap and work through till 8 or 9 in the evening, to fit the hours in. And then on top of that having to take holiday to make up lost hours.

In the mean time, other have been getting full pay since march with their feet up. Bit of fishing, bit of DIY, bit of walking in the sun. A the end of it all, planning on going on holiday to burn off the holiday accrued.

In other news.

Option A. take on a 4 day week. You might like it, and as above negotiate the removal of any no compete clauses to enable you to work freelance.

I'd be working with your friendly colleague to go for Option A and put that in an email from both of you with each other cc'd so that its in writing.  Of course include Teachers Pet in the conversation on the basis "its best for all three of us" even if he declines to be a part of that decision.

Perhaps A will opt for one of you to get fired to save his own arse, he needs to look like the favourite in the court of law and the above shows a 2/3 majority, if you then get fired it makes things very complicated for an unfair dismissal. claim.

Game theory.
If you select A and so do others, you're in 80%.

If you select A but others don't, you could get binned.

If you select B it doesn't matter if others do it not, there's still the chance of getting binned.

Teacher's pet holds all the cards.

my understanding

Is quite limited.

Your moaning, on the other hand, is quite advanced though. If you've had to work hard to keep your job safe this year, be glad... as the OP is making it clear, others risk being on the job market at the worst of times.

Take Option A

I went to a 4 day week in Jan this year as our company was running out of money and asked for voluntary reductions in hours. It still went bust in the end (8th Feb), but when I eventually got a new job I kept the 4 day week thing, just nice having a day off mid week (I don't work Wednesdays). Given I can't actually spend any money thanks to VC-19, I'm probably better off overall.

NB It's grim out there but companies are still recruiting e.g. I've been interviewing people via MS Teams for the last few weeks.

Gives you the opportunity to do some ad-hoc freelance work.

There is absolutely zero creative freelance work out there at the moment. Nothing! Somewhat unsurprisingly, seeing as all the agencies haven't even got enough work for their full-time staff

Really sorry to hear your news. Hope you get away without redundancy

If teacher's pet was the person your boss chose to be unavailable to him/her during furlough, are you absolutely sure he will be the first in line to keep their job in the event of redundancies? The boss has clearly made a call on the 2 out of 3 he most needed at that moment in time.

my understanding is that by being on furlough you are technically being made redundant, only on a temporary basis? Its a bit rich really, seems there are two groups of people out there.
Ones on paid holiday, who cant moan enough about how bored they are, and others who are run off their feet trying to fit in full working days and full time childcare all at the same time.

He did forget the "some are on furlough run off thier feet looking after children who are off school trying to fight in consulation for being made redundant option".

In a lot of cases Furlough has been nothing more than gardening leave, for the other its a very anxious wait to see if they return to a job again, which for many people has some dire consequences.

I'm 40 minutes away from helping my wife through her first "your ****ed" meeting, whilst trying to manage an exponentially busy job which will likely soon be our sole income.   Life's not the bed of roses you paint it out to be.

Option C - the furlough scheme is changing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme/changes-to-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

From 1 July, employers can bring furloughed employees back to work for any amount of time and any shift pattern, while still being able to claim CJRS grant for the hours not worked.

You all get furloughed at 80% + 20% work. You work one day a week. You all keep a job, the company pays salary of 60% of one person.

It's a rough place to be in. I was furloughed end of March, placed into the redundancy pool May and then after consultation given my notice in June.

But, on Monday I start a new job with a better package. So if the "worst" does happen, things can still work out for you. I won't lie though it's been an emotional rollercoaster, with the lows seeming very low. It'll work out.

I'll def be going for A - we will manage but have to do some adjustments to spend/lifestyle etc. I can't risk B as like Binners says, if it's me chopped there's no one taking on creatives ATM as there's very little work around - for some staff and for that very reason, no freelancers. It'll be a saturated job market for years with employers having their pick from a vast pool if and when things pick up.

I'll be speaking to X and Y and swaying them towards A if poss, though I'm not sure how much they earn relative to me if salaries come into the equation. Me and Y are the same age as our boss and occasionally challenge his requests on creative grounds, which X doesn't do and is clear-as-day a (younger and more recent addition) brown noser yes man extraordinaire. Boss gets an easier ride with X and this is why I think he favours him. X was furloughed over me and Y because we were more familiar with the clients that were still spending at the beginning of furlough, and none of the clients X was working on before Covid have requested work since. You would think that would stand me and Y in good stead...who knows...

If I was X, I'd be assuming that, given what you say about client spread and experience, that I was the one for the chop, and would be pushing for A as well.

20% off 3 salaries doesn't equal the bigger saving of getting rid of one member completely. I'd be voting for A but preparing for scenario B.

Spoke to the other guys - we're all pushing for B.
I've requested a chat with HR bod as some things don't make sense/add up.
Let's see what joys tomorrow brings.
I'm off for a beer...

Good luck....

I'd be trying a all the way.

****...I meant A. What a dick - been one of those days.

Crap news but a story that will be getting a lot more widespread as this year develops.

Good luck Rascal mate, although if teachers pet is really close to the gaffers I'd not count on his vote too much.

Keep your cards close to your chest, they may be needed to trump the other two sooner than you expect.

If teacher’s pet was the person your boss chose to be unavailable to him/her during furlough, are you absolutely sure he will be the first in line to keep their job in the event of redundancies? The boss has clearly made a call on the 2 out of 3 he most needed at that moment in time.

This is surely logical. Similar siutation at my work, tech rather than creative, and he is now gone.

It seemed impossible to argue that the one that wasnt required to continue working could become one of those that was.... (Not sure I've articulated that very well, but I've had my brain numbed by several hours on Zoom)

Have you calculated how much a 20 percent pay cut makes to your take home pay? Then the cost saving of one less day commuting at 40p per mile (I have presumed you driving)

I would jump on the chance of a 4 day week

20% off 3 salaries doesn’t equal the bigger saving of getting rid of one member completely.

20% pay cut and a 4 day week = 0.8*0.8= 0.64

Therefore it's almost exactly the same as employing two on current pay full time.

Option A is not sustainable despite keeping all 3 of you in work short term - if you go for it, I'd be wanting some sort of assurance that once one of you finds a job elsewhere the remaining two revert to full pay 5 days a week.

edit - just reread - is it a 20% cut AND a 4 day week, Or just a 4 day week (with the obvious pay for 4 instead of 5 days)? I have friends suffering the double whammy and thought that's what you were talking about but now not so sure.

Opt for A. If one other also opts for A, the one that doesn't looks a ****!

Can I introduce option C...
Which work colleague will put up the least struggle?
Time to take the weakest out permanently.
Maybe make it look like a work accident.

Option D?