[Closed] just had a car crash 🙁

if the lanes were marked then it's clear cut IMO.

Glad you're ok, i do that junction every day on my commute and hate to say it but he was in the correct lane

houns how was he in the correct lane??

If he drove out of his lane and into you then it's pretty much his problem. If you drifted over and hit him then it would be yours, i am sure a crash/insurance assessor will be able to tell from the nature of the damage.

Hope your family are ok btw.

Arrows painted on the road, iirc the left hand lane points straight on and left (left for A38 and straight on for Bromsgrove)

here is the part of the island in question .

i was in middle lane and he was in top lane.

[IMG] [/IMG]

i wanted to pull off and he wanted to continue round the island??

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.378966,-2.046129&spn=0.000645,0.001717&t=k&z=20

Two lanes for the A38?

Hmm looking at Google maps i maybe wrong! Though i could swear that they do as i mention above..Otherwise i wouldn't go in that lane... I hope i am wrong for you, will double check on Tues when i go back to work

this one? seems pretty clear!!

[img] [/img]

left hand lane is for going left up the A38. Did you walk back and show him the arrows???

Houns, priorities have changed since the island refit i think,left hand lane and middle are for A38 towards Rubery, middle and outside for B'grove, i could walk up and have a look but it's dark

so was he in the wrong according to that map cp??

No wonder i'm always getting beeped at ;0)

Seriously though i know the priorities have changed, since that picture above

yep the arrows are like this now

left lane = arrow points straight on
middle lane = arrow is straight on and right
right lane = arrow points right

wife has resigned herself to the fact it will probably go knock for knock!!

Doesn't matter what lane he was in - you are supposed to check your nearside before leaving the roundabout and give way to anything in the inside of you... he was wrong, but I think in insurance terms you may be, or 50/50 at best. You have the option of carrying on around, he doesn't so you cut into him in effect.

Hence why in motorbike training you have the lifesaver on preparing to exit a roundabout drummed into you.

Based on the markings on Google Earth the roundabout is a crash waiting to happen. The markings could be read as left being for both A38 exits. Hope everyone is ok.

The markings could be read as left being for both A38 exits.

How do you figure that out?

Left lane says A38(N) and middle says A38(N) A38(S)

So it does. Not very clearly though. And I ****ed if I know what way is north and south by looking at that pic.

Either way I would have chosen to stay behind someone who was driving like that

RobS has it here. Probably a bit of arguing about the location of damage to your car then end up settling 50/50. PITA

Surely though Renton was not leaving the roundabout? Just selecting the correct lane on the roundabout as a junction was passed. And mr forrester was the one who actively changed lanes? Either way, I suspect the 50/50 thing is the most likely outcome.

>Surely though Renton was not leaving the roundabout?

He left the roundabout just here:-

>anyway lights go green and [b]i follow my lane onto a38[/b] and BANG !! im like wtf .

The old fella was in the wrong but insurance will no doubt settle it 50/50. This is what wing mirrors were invented for 😉

this thread is useless without pics.... wait, that was a bit insensitive, glad your all ok.

Who do we know that drives a Subaru Forester? http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rivington-pike-conditions

surely though as he has tried to carry on round the island he would have seen my big blue focus cmax filling his windscreen and had time to stop!!

i did check my mirror and because of the angle he hit me at i couldnt see him??

My tip is to not get infront of or beside people that are driving erratically. Other option for me on an empty rbt would be to go for the inside lane and boot it the **** out of there.

goan - thought you were meant to be the worlds best driver tho!!

Yes, but only a fool would think they could drive a car they weren't in.

Were you indicating as you turned off?

*use of the word 'pulled' now removed to avoid too many double entendres....

Arnica for the aches and pains.

Or were you just concentrating solely on pulling yourself off?

yep i was indicating!

Surely that helps your case then if, as stated, his lane says he has to go left, your lane gives you the option of going left, and you were indicating, and ahead of him, at the time????

im uploading a couple of piccys to show the road layout !!

wait one.......

here are a few piccys....

first one looking back at part of island im on about .......

[IMG] [/IMG]

i was in middle lane and he was in lane my left

this one shows marking on floor as you come up to the lights...............

[IMG] [/IMG]

as does this one..........

[IMG] [/IMG]

hope this helps!!

Did you aim at the right hand lane on the A38 or did you move across onto him in the left?

Spiral Roundabout - he's ****ed. As long as you're sure you didnt change lanes.'

Renton was correct in his actions and probably couldn't have avoided the accident.
The other guy was clearly wrong and caused the accident.
On a 3 lane roundabout, where it is a Dual carriageway exit, the left game lane is ALWAYS LEFT TURN ONLY. The middle lane is either or. This is intentional to avoid the above mentioned incident.
Exactly the Same thing happened to me about 8 years ago in north wales somewhere. I was driving a company car at the time, however both the insurance companys decided the other guy was at fault.

cheers all, i was in middle land at lights and pulled off island into outside lane of a38 dual carriageway thus staying in lane.

he wanted to carry on round the island to the next set of lights you can see in second picture.

TFM - that is not strictly correct. As evidence I present you the disaster area that is Calder Junction in Edinburgh.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=maps%20calder%20junction&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

I would say I was in the middle lane to go staright ahead
but this guy ran into my inside as we left the lights.

Also check if there is any cameras at the lights
and if there are the lamp post will have a number
to reconise the camera. But act on this ASAP to
keep evidence.

ive already phoned insurance company but they are not open until tomorrow?

You need to ensure that wife and kids see a doctor asap to have their injuries recorded by a doctor. This will help in any claim you are making and possible compensation. You may be suffering from whiplash injuries too!

While I'm also going to unsympathetically agree that when there's a 'unpredictable' driver about I prefer to have him exactly where I can see him, it does also look like the dashed lines marking the inside lane on the roundabout show the lane going off left - he must have crossed these too.

I reckon it's well in your favour and you should argue the point to avoid getting stiffed on your NCB as a result.

Comment though. In any incident when people are injured the police should be called. As well as being the correct thing to do, the traffic officers would fairly quickly be able to form a judgement on whether he or you were right and their report would be important for the claims, instead of asking the combined wisdom of cyclists to apportion blame.

[edit: I'm not sure whether it should now be reported as an accident where people were injured, even though it is some time after]

Getting in the RH-lane at lights to drive past slow/unpredictable/dangerous-looking drivers always carries this risk. I've had my fair share of these sort of bumps. I would agree you were completely in the right, but the insurers will only take this as knock-for-knock - both drivers should have been aware of each other at all times. That's the way they'll see it.

Glad your all OK but as others have said the best place for an erratic driver is in font of you where you have control over how far away they are.

Oh dear - it does sound like he was definitely in the wrong from your description & pics.

Someone hit me in July and it's only just sorted out. She reversed into me in a car park and then claimed that I hit her stationary vehicle. There were no witnesses.
I decided the best thing to do was to take as many pics of the damage as I could and write as detailed a description of the events as I could. I took various screen dumps of the place it happened and then did a blow by blow account of how it happened, inlcuding the run-up to it. With each pic, I super-imposed them with arrows using MS Word and little coloured squares representing our cars.
Initially the insurance company contacted me and said that the best they could get was 50/50. I said that was unacceptable and when i asked if they had read my statement or seen the pics I sent in, the girl admitted she hadn't!! When she looked over the pics, she agreed that the damage would have been very difficult to achieve had I drove into this woman.

So, be prepared for a rubbish first response and be prepared to take it further. The more info you can give them the better. It doesn't sound like you had any witnesses, which is a shame as that is what drew everything out in my case. But, I got there in the end. Hopefully you will too! Good luck!

Don't worry to much I had a similar accident at j11 of the M4 at Reading.

The layout of the roundabout is much the same.

A woman in a people carrier to my left just wiped me out and just couldn't understand how it was her fault.

I took lots of pics of the lanes and clearly explained what had happened and the case was settled in my favour.

I hope your family is OK accidents aren't nice no matter how minor.

I think it's going to take some arguing and a bit of hassle, but in the end it should be decided as his fault. I use that roundabout reasonably often, though unlike some who use it every day do actually remember what the lane markings actually are without the need of all the pictures. From my experience of driving it, it is quite clear that the left lane is only to go onto the A38 heading towards Brum. It is very normal to use the middle lane at that point to also take the A38 North - what I do more often than not. Given the multiple road markings sending you that way, the Forester driver was quite clearly in the wrong - he was obviously paying more attention to his satnav than the roadsigns.

Sounds like he changed lanes and collided with you because he didn't check his mirror or look over his shoulder before manoeuvring. The front passenger side damage to your car supports this IMO. Did you smell booze on his breath?

Sorry to hear about it and glad you're family all OK.

Sorry to hear about your bump and sorry to hear your misses got injured.
If you had independant witnesses you may have stood a chance with the insurance company however I am assuming there are not as you have not mentioned any. I can forsee that it will be a 50/50 knock for knock. The road markings indicate that your route was legal and I am afraid that all you can do is make mention of the old gadgers errattic driving prior to the bump and at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing so there is no good in anyone preaching to you about shoulder checks as well as mirror checks especially when negotiating multiple hazards.
As far as reporting the matter goes as there was an injury involved to your wife the obligation is on you to report the accident to the police (the obligation is equally on the driver of the other vehicle too).
I am afraid that it may not get the full attention that it deserves due to the minor injury aspect of it but there may be cameras on that junction that were recording but that may not have been moitored at the time of the bump. It may be thet the old chap has a history of poor driving, report it and see what happens.

If you had independant witnesses you may have stood a chance with the insurance company however I am assuming there are not as you have not mentioned any. I can forsee that it will be a 50/50 knock for knock.

same as jcn 40 on m6.
tourists get in lefthand of three lane roundabout, thinking it's the safest way to go round and not miss the M6 south exit, then realise they are being funnelled off onto the a66 scotch corner exit and try to merge with the middle lane that they needed.

5 sets of lights on one roundabout.

Agree sometimes better being behind these people but then at jcn 40 you'd be in the wrong lane..

i try to stay just infront of them where they can see me.

Nearly happened to me today, the left hand lane (lane 1) feeds off onto the motor way, then the centre lane moves across (lines and everything) to make the new lane 1, then lane three comes across to make the new centre lane. then hatching forms a new lane 3. This guy was in the centre lane and decided to stay in the centre lane ignoring the road markings. luckly there was hatching for me to drive onto, before I moved into the new centre lane, the guy then flashed his lights at me like I was wrong. My god i nearly got out of my car at the lights to bash some common sense into him.

good luck with it all.hop you got the full reg of the car - if you dont, some police forces arent interested in looking for drivers that hit you and drive off at 70mph.. especially up here in Inverness.even if you told them the colour,make and model of car.. and also that they have a front bumper hanging off.

I think half of them are on donut duty.

i always travel at about 20% slower than the speed limit on islands as they are for changing lanes and not overtaking as Everyone seems to use them for. as if you don't meet the same person you overtook 3 mins ago at the next set of lights. its in the highway code.
sadly some people don't understand rationality too well yet fly through there test as they have a good memory but are impractical. peoples hard earnt posessions and especially life is/ are far more important than shaving off 5 or 10 mins on a journytime.
if only people where as thoughtful on the road as the riders on the trail can be.

we'd be pulling over to let the hedge hogs past instead of squishing them all the times.

anyone interested in a nice hedge skin saddle ? my wife makes them.

I'm going to have to agree with Goan on this one, anyone driving erratically stays in front of me until I can hoof it a long way clear - seen too many idiots/drunks doing stupid things. But hindsight is a wonderful thing and no-one expects people to do such nutty moves until they see it with their own two eyes. Hope all is well and the insurance claim comes in favour of you renton, it's clearly his fault if you didn't stray lanes.

just a quick update.

the car has gone in to be looked at for repair,however i was getting messed around with a courtesy car as i have guaranteed hire car on my policy(fully comp) and the repair center said because of this they wouldn't give me a car.

so i contacted my insurance and they gave me a car through enterprise rent a car.

at first it was going to be a ford ka which wouldn't have been any good as i have two children in car seats and i have a 90 mile mway drive to work and back everyday.

i explained this to the chap and enterprise and he explained that if i gave him the deatils of the crash he would contact the other blokes insurance and see if they would pay for me to have a like for like car, he did say if they are not accepting liability for the crash then it would be a no go however they got back to him and agreed to giving me a like for like car.

does this sound good for me then ??

cheers

steve

Sounds amazing that they would make a de facto admission of repsonsibility like this but I'd say very good news...don't pay for anything in advance or as a minimum get your insurer's written agreement to reimburse you for whatever car you need.

just a quick update.
i contacted the repair center today to see how thing are progressing.

they have told me that the repair has been authorized and the car needs a new wing,passenger door re skin,sill and various plastic trim parts.

still not been contacted by his or my insurance for a statement but have sent in pictures to an email address i was given by my insurer.

my insurance company also said that if he tells the truth in that he wanted to carry on round th island like he told me at the time then he will have to accept responsibility for the accident.

however he also said that if he makes a story up and says i hit him then it will go 50/50 and thy wouldn't take it to court to fight it .

starting to get fed up now as i feel my insurance company is giving up already

oh and if it goes 50/50 and i lose my no claim discount my insurance is going to double.

i know i should of protected them but i was trying to cut costs a bit (hindsight eh!!)

so that will be 9 years no claims gone for someone lying through their teeth !!

great.

It stinks and roundabout accidents are the hardest to argue, I tried for ages to fight a case when the wife had an accident years ago. Someone entered the roundabout as she was preparing to exit from the centre and hit her, the insurance companies believed him that he was already there, even though the 3rd party witness which was trying to defend him said she followed him from a the same entrance. We had to take the blame.

Your family weren't hurt that's the important thing.

my wife was hurt!!

in fact i had to help her get out of bed this morning she is in that much pain with her back .

currently dosed up on brufen/co codamol and some anti sickness tablets.

waiting for a good family friend to come back tomorrow who is going to put us in touch with his solicitor about her injuries.

With my claim (mentioned above) I received an e-mail not long after saying that the 3rd party had claimed I was at fault and the best they could hope to achieve was 50/50 (even though she reversed into me while i was stationary).

I rang them up and said this wasn't acceptable. When I asked how they could possibly think it was my fault from the statement & gave & the pics of damage to my car, the woman admitted she hadn't actually read my statement or looked at the pics.
She did this and then said that she could see my point and the e-mail was just an advisory that this would be the best they hoped to achieve, but was by no means the only outcome they would pursue. So, she basically backtracked on it.

Anyway, my cheque turned up yesterday for my excess. Hopefully your claim will be similarly successful.

Haven't read the whole thread but for anyone in similar situation in future when you may not be thinking straight it's a good idea to rehearse in your head what you would do in a similar situation.

First, if you've got a camera with you get out and take pictures of the situation straight away (although also be prepared for this to upset the other driver!)

And second, if there was someone behind you, flag them down quick and get their details so they can be contacted as a witness. Try not to let them just drive off.

fingers crossed then eh!!

sent pictures to them via email about 3 days ago but had no reply back yet??

rightplacerighttime your right you haven't read the thread!!

ive posted the pictures on here what i took at the time!

unfortunately there were no other people on the island

Yep other party definitely wrong, however that 'straight on' arrow in his lane is ambiguous to my eyes.

I think it would be better as a left-arrow, suggesting you have to leave the roundabout if you're in this lane. A straight-on arrow does suggest staying on the roundabout to me.

Good luck with your claim. As much detail as possible as everyone else is saying, with pics.

Not sure if being in the correct lane is important, more if he moved out of his lane and into yours.

Ah sorry Renton missed that she was still suffering, hope she recovers soon and this mess gets sorted.

just another update on this accident...........

my insurance are still having problems getting any info from the other chaps insurance however, the solicitors dealing with my wifes injury claim have managed to get his of his statement of events and his drawing clearly shows that he was intending to carry on round the island and not take the a38 north as he should of from the lane he was in!

i have contacted my insurance and they seem quite keen to get hold of a copy of this and said it will help in the claim against him

fingers crossed.

cheers

steve

These things seem to take forever to sort out. I had a claim last Feb against a guy who tried overtaking me as I turned right. Finally settled in December.
Hope it works out for you the way it obviously should.

A straight-on arrow does suggest staying on the roundabout to me

that's a bit worrying! It's blatantly, in combination with road markings, funnelling the left lane off the roundabout

I make a point of never being alongside anyone at roundabouts if I can help it - if it's not busy of course. If it is busy, I try and make sure my car's either a) alongside the gap between two other cars or b) not in anyone's blind spot.

That's prevented a few near misses like the OPs, but also not prevented some - particularly coming off the M3 at Basingstoke...