[Closed] Just back from hiring a VW California. I think we missed the point... 🙁

Oh yeh, the £60k thing buys a lot of holidays... Yes it does. Ours was just over £30k which also buys a lot of holidays but looking at prices of vans which aren't as nice or as low mileage as ours currently, oddly it looks like ours could be worth more than what we paid for it. So potentially its a lot of holidays for free!

Similar sized vans are available from other manufacturers at significantly less cost.

New Transit camper thing is £50k. And I doubt it'll hold its value anywhere near as well.

I think the problem is that you hired a California. We have a converted T5 long wheel base high top and there in tons and tons of storage. 4 of us went to France for 2 weeks and we had free space in the cupboards. High tops are great as you can stuff all the beading, duvet, pillows, tent, blow up beds, etc, etc up the top and this frees up loads of space from the cupboards low-down. We then have all our clothes in the cupboard above the cab. You then have all the normal cupboards by the folding seat for the food, shoes, coats, camping gear etc.

for those who have hired... where have you hired from? Is there anywhere recommended nearer to London?

We bought a Bongo (not a VW admittedly) with a view to selling on return from a 4000mile roadtrip as they hold their value. Substantially cheaper than renting. As it happens we just never sold it.

We had a full on 6 berth Camper van, proper beast, stand up shower, Oven Fridge Freezer lounge area and in the wet with two kids it was too small!! So I think and smaller vans for more than two nights would be rough! We sold it Trafford our house and We wish we still had it!

For us Two kids massive Dog, we worked out that a Van plus quick up tents and Awning shelter was the way to go, tent up in less than ten min, also be awning the same still have a Kombi van for use on Hols so cart bikes, dog, kids about no worries this is good for long weekends away. We do have a full on tent for a week any but that a half hour up and down Job! Plus I'm not carting about all the camper extras

I do use it as my daily driver, and it's great, but in the end it's a van! I went SWB as well it was a good deal at times the Len would be helpful but either are easy enough to to park you'll get you head around them the more you drive them. Yeah it's noisier than a car, won't accelerate as quick but that's a given the seats in our are really comfortable, we did Southampton to Fort Bill in two stops and I felt better getting out than I would have in the previous cars I've owned.

I know it's not exactly the same but a VW Sharon and a decent tent would do 90% of it and cost a darn sight less.

Alpin: can you send me some more info (email in profile i think - lemme know if not..)?

we are in the middle of considering all of this after 2wks in scotland and we loved it..

looking to buy a panel van and convert - if the swiss laws allow me - how did you get averything passed in germany? here the cost of a base van is almost tear inducing so i'd have to get it right!

My parents have just bought a T5 camper.

Like the OP I always imagined it must be brilliant, but..........

Mehh, it's no higher quality in the van bit up front than our Fiesta, still just acres of plastic and bits rattle.

The back is functional, but as you say it's a 2 person space at a push, there's no way you could do 4 people without guaranteed sunshine or a gazebo/tent (which defeats the objective).

And there's not enough storage for anything more than a walking holiday unless you take a trailer. TBH, with a trailer it makes 10x more sense, especialy if that trailer was about 7ft tall, had a door & windows, and a bed, and a cooker, and a fridge.

And how much!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could buy a 2 bed terrace in the North Yorkshire Moors for the same as a new-ish T5 camper.

@KingofBiscuits

Chocks, levellers, hook up, etc in the gaps within the folding chairs in the boot/tailgate! Makes it easier for the weedy to close too (unless of course you have a bike rack).

KingofBiscuits
It's things like this: [i]Although there's still a requirement to remove the car seat and iso fix base once we arrive as part of setting up.[/i] that we hadn't really factored on storing once we arrived.

I went to have a look at a Hobby 765HFE this morning. £60k, seems like a decent build and ticks every box. The massive downside, is that if we decide it's not for us after 12 months or if we think we need a different layout then the loss will be about £20k in the first year. I just can't afford that risk, and it's not there with a Cali.

I really wish I'd posted this thread before we went away because I'd have bought an awning and emergency toilet to take, knowing that I'd need them both to make the van work for four people and young children. With it, I might have had a whole different experience. I think the disappointment came from many threads (not just STW) saying the van is fine for four people for a couple of nights away without an awning - I just completely disagree.

I'm going to have look at LWB conversions too, but after reading all the replies I'm back thinking maybe I could make a Beach (or SE/Ocean) work for me (with dark upholstery and dark carpets) if we give it more thought and pitch an awning. I still think it's a disappointment in build, attention and material choices for the money, but when you take the retained value into account you could argue it's a relatively cheap car/van for it's purpose.

I've got a daft little 135i at the moment which I drive like a knacker, and I thought I'd hate pottering everywhere at 60mph, but the truth is I didn't really enjoy getting back in the car today. I think I might be finally ready to grow up.

@Dragon
A car and a tent would work, but I like the idea of all of us being asleep in the van and everything else (bbq, hob, food, tables and chairs and so on) being outside the van in the awning. Plus, in an emergency of no suitable spots and very bad weather on arrival, we could all sleep in the van and live in it for 24 hours if we really, really had to.

The kids will only like it their mum hasn't killed me in the middle of the night after listening to me behave like a 14 year old with every inconvenience... So another hire, probably a Beach, and we'll buy an awning before hand...

Had my Cali 5 years now. For 2 of those its been our only vehicle.

It is our (Me and the wife's) 4th camper van. The previous being a couple of type 2's and a T4.

Decided to buy a Cali as we had babies on the way and wanted the secure rear seat and heater and fridge.

We hired one and did 1000 miles over a fortnight in campsites in England, bit of wild in Scotland and a festival.

Being already used to the space of a smaller camper van we found it great and bought one as a result. 3 years old, just out of warranty so its 8 years old now.

before spending this amount on the Cali we did have a good long hard look at ourselves. Is it what we want?

Going bigger would offer more comfort and convenience and be cheaper. But where would we put it? We have no offroad parking. The inlaws had a bigger 'motorhome' and found the size restrictive even in Cornwall.
Buying a 'cheaper' conversion we considered, however once we added all the requirements we had it was not much cheaper than a good second hand Cali. Also, conversions don't come with blinds, deck chairs and outdoor table hidden around it.
Neither of us are afraid of a feral poo.

In short, we love ours and don't regret getting one. Our kids love it and see it as home from home, Thomas was 4 weeks old on his first camping trip and Alice was 3 months old.

I can certainly see why people couldn't justify the expense, it is a huge commitment, (it is our holidays period, when we plan a holiday, we drive and camp) for what is a, to most people, a van conversion. Except they're not. They are built by VW as Cali's from the ground up even fitting them with different suspension. I am always too embarrassed to tell people what I paid for it too.
However, its a keeper as far as we are concerned. No plans to upgrade or upsize or buy newer. Its part of the family in the same way as our well loved Type 2's were, it just gets there more reliably and a lot quicker.

We've got a converted LWB T30 which suits us as 2 adults. I can;t imagine having 4 in it, but then we like a bit of space.
We've done quite a few trips down to Dorset and up to the Lakes and into Yorkshire - its great just being able to turn up at a small site, park up, plug in the power (hopefully), put the roof up, get the pillows out and put the front screens in - we've got this down to less than 10 minutes now...
In the last 15 months we've done 2 trips down to Ital - one to the Dolomites and the other to Tuscany. It cruises at 130kmh easily, although long drags are a bit of a struggle, and it was absolutely fine up in the Alps and Dolomites going over passes.
Our main thing now is to get a wind-out Fiamma side awning which will make life better for inclement weather as we'll be able to keep the NS sliding door open.
In the end its horses for courses, as a weekender vehicle it suits us, and although a sub7.5t AC or OC van would be nice we just don't have anywhere to keep it and we'd lose some of the day-to-day practicality of the T5.

Based on you can hire a 6-berth motorhome for a week for less than £1k, and I'm pretty sure out-of-season you'll be able to get them cheaper - I'd be hiring one rather than pay £60k for one that is too small and where you also need a tent.

Mehh, it's no higher quality in the van bit up front than our Fiesta, still just acres of plastic and bits rattle.

The back is functional, but as you say it's a 2 person space at a push, there's no way you could do 4 people without guaranteed sunshine or a gazebo/tent (which defeats the objective).

And there's not enough storage for anything more than a walking holiday unless you take a trailer. TBH, with a trailer it makes 10x more sense, especialy if that trailer was about 7ft tall, had a door & windows, and a bed, and a cooker, and a fridge.

And how much!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could buy a 2 bed terrace in the North Yorkshire Moors for the same as a new-ish T5 camper.

Like a lot of things though, as long as you base your assumptions on a cursory glance or jumping on the "I hate VWs" bandwagon then your assumptions are entirely justified.

Fascinating thread yet again as I have thought about getting a t5 but some v good posts about living with them. I would put a t5 in the holiday home, boat, motorbike bracket...they all look really nice to own but when you actually get one and live with them the cracks start appearing.

I know a few people with t5s and the converted lwb t5 seems the way to go, just put in what you want.

It's hard to argue with that br, but as the day has gone on I'm back to thinking I want to replace the car with a van, so I'm ruling out a motor home. I also want to use it most weekends, so occasional hire wouldn't work for us (I don't think this is what you were suggesting.

A 150 DSG Beach with the bits I'd want it is coming out at £48k, and all it's missing is a hob, fridge and some storage.

The only other downside I can see is the exhaust for the diesel heater seems to vent into the awning space. That seems mental if true, can the exhaust be re-routed without causing further issue?

Also, does anybody know if the reclining three seat rear bench (no cost option) still turn into a bed, or is that an extra row of seats or bed deletion? The salesman wasn't sure...

One issue I have with getting something like a T5 in order to double up as a daily vehicle and as a motorhome is the cost. This is the motorhome I have currently:
[img] [/img]
It only cost around £40K new so for the prices being quoted for the T5 conversions you could get one like mine and still have about £10K to spend on a 2nd hand car (for example my Mazda CX-7, which cost me all of £6K). Now IMHO the C-class motorhome is better at being a motorhome that a T5 conversion, and the CX-7 is better at being a car than a T5 conversion. Not only that I suspect that if I did car mileage with the T5 conversion it'd probably depreciate quicker as well. Each to their own however!

The downside for me Stve, is that I'd need to store something of that size away from home. If my drive was big enough, I'd find it harder to resist.

Are the smaller roads up in the Highlands or Lakes not off limits in something like this, I presume so? Have you never got stuck, or do you stick to more developed places to visit? Do the little things parking it when you're out and about, visiting new villages/towns for example not become really tricky?

The 3-seat bench option on the Beach still makes a bed. That's what's in my order (just placed last week)... 🙂

iamtheresurection

I have driven a big coachbuilt camper up north - its possible tho not much fun. considering almost every road is used by 10 tonne trucks then its not impossible

My suggest to you would be to try hiring a differnt one and seeing how you get on Try a big coachbuilt and a van conversion ( but a bigger hardtop van)

The downside for me Stve, is that I'd need to store something of that size away from home. If my drive was big enough, I'd find it harder to resist.

That is a downside however I store mine at a secure facility and it's only a few hundred a year for that.

Are the smaller roads up in the Highlands or Lakes not off limits in something like this, I presume so? Have you never got stuck, or do you stick to more developed places to visit? Do the little things parking it when you're out and about, visiting new villages/towns for example not become really tricky?

We've been all over in ours - north of Scotland and the Western Isles, passes in the Alps and Scandinavia. Never had a problem with it anywhere (you have to remember that trucks and buses get along most of those roads) other than occasionally finding a car-park in city centres. We use public transport or our bikes a lot, plus now there are only two of us we'll probably get a small motorbike to stick in the garage. Over on the continent motorhomes are very well catered for and loads are our size or bigger.

do what someone I recently met does.

picks up california no 1
orders california no 2.
several months later
sell california no 1 for barely less than he bought it for as someone always wants one NOW and will pay top dollar for a low mileage version.
picks up california no 2
orders california no 3
several months later
etc
etc

People are ****ing mad. £60k for a tiny van with the right badge on the front, or you could pay £40k for that thing Steve posted?!?! Going on holiday and sleeping in a van is madness; four of you sleeping in the same van is even crazier. But if you have to do it, at least get something fit for purpose.

Also, does anybody know if the reclining three seat rear bench (no cost option) still turn into a bed, or is that an extra row of seats or bed deletion? The salesman wasn't sure...

It is 2/3 of the bed with the final tailgate-end of the bed made from the multiflex board which slides along the floor rails to be either a upper/lower split of the load area or the final third of the bed (it comes with a cushioned top). Result is a very wide bed that you can get 3 on for whatever reason takes your fancy.

EDIT Like this (not my pic, not my van, probably a Caravelle but same bench/board layout)

[img] [/img]

Warning though the 3-seat bench bed is very lumpy in terms of recesses for seatbelt components and requires a topper or therm-a-rests (as mentioned previously in the thread).

I've been living with a Beach for over three years - email in profile if you want a proper chat about how we use ours. We're near Huddersfield if that helps.

Going on holiday and sleeping in a van is madness; four of you sleeping in the same van is even crazier. But if you have to do it, at least get something fit for purpose.

5 of us spent a week with a converted Hyundai i800 last summer, up and around the north coast of Scotland. Fit for purpose? Depends on what you consider fit. If you want rolling hotel room, then, sure buy a rolling hotel. If you want something that make your trips distinctly different from home life...well there are plenty of options.

For us, the Beach replaces our S-Max which spends much of its summer racked up with bikes, and roof box, and stuffed with a camp-gear.

BTW this is the sort of space you get for carrying bikes etc. in our C-class as it has decent sized garage:
[img] [/img]

One thing I particularly like is that when doing big mileages (e.g. when driving down to the south of Europe) the fixed beds mean we stop overnight in the motorway services or Aire's over there and be in bed very quickly as they're always made up and ready to use.

People are **** mad. £60k for a tiny van with the right badge on the front, or £40k for that thing Steve posted?!?!

You do realise that you sound like a lot of leisure cyclists outside the STW community?

"How much for that bike?!?!?! You're mad...." 🙂

Blow up tent, super quick to put up come with built in ground sheet, good internal storage, ports for electric hook up etc. Probably as much time to setup as a camper and you can drive to places in the comfort of your car. Loads more room too for when it is raining outside and you have to stay in.

Check out Alpine Dan!

and then you have to take it down in the pissing rain with the kids in the car drawing on the headlining with the biro they found under a seat and hope you get a couple of dry days soon after you get home so you can put it back up and dry the thing out...

Drying out the tent is the biggest bane of my summer life...aside from cutting the bloody grass...

Unusual for STW to be such a dichotomy of opinions 🙂

Thanks for posting the picture of that 3 seat bench, Scuttler. Apparently, you have to spec it if you want the black upholstery, bit odd. It has a big advantage of an extra seat when picking up the boys and their friends too.

Has anybody confirmed that the diesel heater exhaust vents into the awning, or if it can be re-routed/bodged? Lastly, has anybody specked the anti-roll bars to stiffen it up a bit (£240 option) - tempted with that.

Thanks again all, the thread's been a big help.

There's not much worse than camping TBH.

Has anybody confirmed that the diesel heater exhaust vents into the awning, or if it can be re-routed/bodged? Lastly, has anybody specked the anti-roll bars to stiffen it up a bit (£240 option) - tempted with that.

So you're gonna buy one even though you thought it was shit?

🙂
Pretty much David, the pictures in the brochure prove I was obviously missing the point. I just need to be educated.

Edit: sorry, less flippantly, I have had a good read of alternative opinions and thoughts about other vans and respective merit, value, convenience, resale value and so on and think maybe the best compromise is a lesser specced California and a side awning (and better preparation). At least I think it's worth another go before dismissing.

Why don't you try renting something different before committing to spending that sort of cash?

We didn't actually rent before we bought our first one but were pretty convinced by that point that we wanted one and also what layout would work (we decided we wanted one with bunk beds and a garage at the back - back in 2004 there weren't as many like that in the UK to rent or buy 2nd hand so ended up getting a new one). It would have been an expensive mistake to have bought one and not used it - or bought a layout that didn't work for us.

No it vents out the drivers side so if you have a drive away awning you'll get some fume action unless you put a skirt around the bottom which is what we do. Once it's running the fumeage isn't as bad, it's not ideal but probably isn't as bad as you think, the heater runs quite clean once it's up to temp, stinks at startup. Excited above an external windscreen cover is much better than the internal ones. Inka seat covers or similar, Comfortz topper if required or internal topper is better we think.

My parents recently bought a pretty new second hand Danbury T5 conversion for a bit over £30k. It's really nice but not very enduro or stw, before parking up at glentress or posting a pic of it on here you'd probably need to change the wheels to alloys and lower it etc. The Cali things are an insane price.

Camper vans take a bit of getting used to, I lived in one for 5 months albeit in Australia so rain rarely a problem. Pop top means you need to be careful with packing only what you need. My folks have a drive away awning thing and spend weeks in the van at a time quite happily. They won't let me borrow it though 😆

I almost certainly will, but a big part of the appeal is going to work on a Friday morning with the van packed and heading straight off when the wife and kids get to work. I'm just not sure I could make that work with a van kept off site.

I certainly couldn't get a van like yours parked at work, which would mean leaving work to go and get the van, swap the contents and so on by which point it would probably be 6.30. In a smaller van I'd be in the Borders by 7pm setting up the bbq.

I realise I've come full circle here from some of the posts about the size, but I honestly think I've been thinking about it all wrong (comments about the Ocean spec/build still stand).

T5 conversions have more space than you think if you learn to pack right. The storage openings are sometimes restrictive but give great vertical height. Three weeks around France we took a bike trailer, travel cot, vango self inflating drive away tent, 2 camping chairs, stroller, the usual stuff for a 3yr and 8 month old etc.

However, now with 3 kids under 5 it just would not work when it comes to trying to settle them in a confined space even with the tent. The Wife wants a Motorhome, I think the biggest family tent available would be better. In fact no, considering our circumstances its chalets or cottages from now onwards.

As a daily driver I did use mine on the 100 mile commute for a while. It was comfy and had a better turning circle than a Passat or our current Seat Alhambra which I think is just as wide. Around France it got a little tiresome without cruise control or air con, mind. If its kept and that's a big if, I see it more as a day van or perhaps a few nights away with just me and the eldest two.

Camped next to one of these at Goodwood this weekend

http://www.mclarensportshomes.co.uk/

About the same price as a new VW Cali.

And they are good enough for Sir Brad

[url= http://www.mclarensportshomes.co.uk/Mclaren%20Sporthome%20-%20Sir%20Bradley%20Wiggins%20Motorhome/index.html ]Wiggo's camper van[/url]

[img] [/img]

Could get weary / seizure inducing for the driver.

[img] [/img]

Christ on a bike. Who's idea of cool is that (one can only hope not Wiggo).

Some nice vans on the site though, will look properly later. Thanks.

Not sure if has been mentioned yet, but have you seen the Danbury Doubleback ??

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9DcuewWOLI

DaveyBoyWonder - Member

Interested - where?

Taking the model the OP had, and VW's list price of "from £48,547"

Chappel, no mains water, but then neither has a T5, £13,547 change to spend on C&H and anoy the former occupier.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-61078310.html

And another, apparently gods own county is a little godless.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-61109963.html

Offers over £50k, but in an area where houses tend not to sell in ahurry I'd bee cheeky.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43780773.html

1 bed in Lazenby for £18k (would be worse, could be Grangetown or Eston)
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-61683719.html

2bed terrace in loftus, meteres from the boundary.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55666048.html

2 bed in Brotton, ok we're going downhill again, but I've proved my point.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55666048.html

£60k for a California is a bit ridiculous, but £20k for 2nd hand builders van converted to the spec of your choice is far more realistic. Im dropping T5 off on Saturday to get converted, can't wait! 😀

It was one of those SportHomes we considered chopping the Cali for, they are stunning. I met a guy with one in the NW Scotland, purely for the garage !
EDIT: Right, who wants a 2014 4motion California !!

4 berth sport home on that mclaren page - yes please!

I'm with epicsteve. When you can get a coach built motorhome cheaper than a T5 conversion it is a no brainer if you have the space for it. I have a T5 Multivan for daily use to ferry our four kids about and I couldn't imagine camping in something that small (even though I used to go camping across Europe in my old T2 with three others). We have one of these which we use to go to South Europe in. It's so much quicker to set up camp and pack that we ended up going on holiday twice this summer. Something we wouldn't have bothered with without it.[img] [/img]

What Neb says. Everyone jumping on the 60k price, cos it suits the agenda.

Well, my agenda has always been that they aren't worth the money, so yes it does suit quite nicely 🙂 If they were £15k I'd have one.

Stop fannying about, and treat yerself to something from these guys 🙂
http://www.scsporthomes.com/index.php

You can quite easily do one for 15k. 10k for van, off the shelf conversion kit for less than 5k.

Don't think the OP was after saving money unless I'm wrong.

You really have to want one. I justified our van on the flimsy pretence that we can carry more crap on holiday, camp pretty much anywhere, and it's free and easy to sleep over on long journeys pretty much wherever in mainland Europe.

That it would be cheaper to hire a suitable vehicle and/or stay overnight in hotels when required, is hardly rocket science.

I wish people would stop saying 'oh you could stay in a hotel for that'. Hotels are totally different things to camping in whatever vehicle you use, the experience is totally different. A hotel holiday with the kids would be awful. Hotels don't tend to be in the middle of huge fields with trees, streams, woods, farms and so on, for starters.

A friend of mine has a Tribute 669, £38k fixed beds (basically double bed bunks), cooker, toilet/shower. At just under 20ft it fits on his drive and he uses it as his vehicle. Quite a lot of luxury with no real compromises.
I wouldn't buy a Cali if I were you for the following reasons,
There's 4 of you and the kids are only going to grow bigger, much bigger.
The Cali is too much money.
The other model you mention has no cooker, fridge or toilet! That's just ridiculous!
That 3 seat bench seat looks impossible to sleep on as a bed, good luck with that one.
I know where you're coming from with the VW, it looks cool but it's just style over substance in my opinion.
Check these out, it won't do any harm to look
http://www.tributemotorhomes.co.uk/motorhomes/tribute-669

All the best, hope it works out for you. 😀

Nobeerinthefridge - Member
You can quite easily do one for 15k. 10k for van, off the shelf conversion kit for less than 5k

seriously 10k for the van? What mileage do you get on that? here in switzerland they keep their value terribly... 10k gbp would get one from 2005 with 150000km at least..

The OP mentioned that with a smaller van he could be in the Borders by 7pm setting up the BBQ. I live in the Borders and the number of times per year you can BBQ isn't that many, and no way on a forest camp site would I be wanting somewhere that wasn't midge free.

Also you'll need to accept a VW will only work for you with an awning, so I'd be hiring a van and awning at half term and try it again.

I wish people would stop saying 'oh you could stay in a hotel for that'

@mitsumonkey
That Tribute looks like a really good compromise: I'll have a proper look at that later.

The £60k 'thing' was more about that, for the money, I thought some of the material choices and durability were poorly thought out, as per the earlier posts. It's not an expensive van to buy though given the way they hold their values. A £60k Buerstner or Hobby would drop £20k in the first year (ish) where a Cali doesn't.

The other thing about the bigger vehicles is the mpg and storage. Will I feel less inclined to jump in it and bugger off if it's not only drive and I only get 20mpg. I suspect the answer will be yes.

Again, that Tribute might be a great middle ground for us, I'll have a properly look at it after work.

Accept what you're saying about the midges, b r. I was thinking we'd find spots away from trees and water (higher spots, I suppose).

I picked up an 18 month old van, 27k miles on the clock for £13k, conversion for anywhere between £6k and £15k depending on needs. Much less if doing it yourself. They seem to hold their value well.

OP - the clue is in the name... VW California, not VW Scotland. The fact that it is £60k is irrelevant, it's designed for temperate climates not the rain soaked, midge infested soggy climate of Scotland.

Buy a base van, get it converted to your spec, save £30k and enjoy it.

[i]A £60k Buerstner or Hobby would drop £20k in the first year (ish) [/i]

30% in a year seems quie high - are you sure?

The motorhome we bought had lost £18k over 10 years from it's new price (about 35%).

Unless there's major legislation changes on use of diesel in the next 5 or 10 years I expect it to lose less actual value per year as time goes on.

No one's arguing that VW's don;t hold their value but they're not unique in that respect.

hotels are totally different things to camping in whatever vehicle you use, the experience is totally different. A hotel holiday with the kids would be awful. Hotels don't tend to be in the middle of huge fields with trees, streams, woods, farms and so on, for starters.

You are staying in the wrong hotels.

Reckon my T5 full conversion has depreciated a fair bit. It was 20k all in, 3ys old when I bought the base van 3 years ago and had done 80k (now 115k). Thing is, it was the facelift which had a premium back then.

Never sold a VW camper for less than I paid for it + mods and running costs, do it right and its free ownership.

@pictonroad does appear to be no shortage of idiots in the world!

The other thing about the bigger vehicles is the mpg and storage. Will I feel less inclined to jump in it and bugger off if it's not only drive and I only get 20mpg. I suspect the answer will be yes.

I don't believe the MPG is that difference if comparing like-for-like. VWs own claims for a short wheelbase low roof van vs long wheelbase high roof is a whopping 1.5mpg different. Motorhomes are probably lower again than a high-top, but I suspect not by that much - they're basically a van, with a van engine, and a slightly larger front profile - that might knock 20% off the mpg, but not 50%

Vw campers if you're careful and buying 2nd hand don't lose money. We part ex'd our T5 for more than we bought it for after 2 years of fairy thorough use. The T4 lost about £1k in 4 years and 30k miles.

Motorhomes depreciation appears to be random, when we were looking around there appeared to be very little logic to pricing compared to age/spec/mileage. But overall they didn't appear to lose much in the 1st couple of years (I assume because new ones can take a while to be delivered), then they step down in price every so often as opposed to cars which just gradually lose money.

The main thing I find is that the van sits in the garage pretty much ready to go all the time, after every trip we restock and get it clean, bike rack is on it. A few weeks back the Wx forecast changed to be good, I left work at 3:30, rode home 20 minutes, bikes on back, quick shower and change - was sitting in the sun eating fish and chips in Oban at 7:30, we've done a lot of that which if it was elsewhere or a faff would make it harder. Considering you don't like camping (!) then a campervan seems an odd choice. A small van (T5/6, Renault traffic, Merc etc) will all be a massive compromise - they pack a decent amount of living space into something the same size as our Q5. Expecting some sort of tardis won't happen, even the coachbuilts I have used have been a compromise - storage, driving them even living with them. But its all about being realistic how much you will honestly use it, I get more out of my Cali as a day/ 1 night van than I do for long holidays. Depends where you live as well, expecting a 2 week Scottish holiday that you have to pre-plan for time off to have great weather is a lottery, if I live in the S of England I would be in france for my holidays and furthersouth would have more surety on weather. Smaller the van the more outside you will be. On the Beach, I had one briefly as a borrowed van, it was nice, with the 2 seater bench though so I could see how it would work for me.
Theres definitely heaps more californias than ever, my first one was in 2007 and there were none really, I was in southern Ireland a couple of weeks back and there were 5 on the campsite - all foreign as well.
EDIT: I'm def not a zealot, we hate ours sometimes, best holiday we had was when we had the car as well (for work reasons - I needed to go to an airport mid holiday) and that worked well, we debated a caravan at that point ! In fact, I always reckon a Cali (or equiv) and a caravan would be awesome.
EDIT2: Mines on a company lease, basically over 4 years I pay negligible interest (0.1% !) and I get some tax benefits from it

I've been told by a couple of different owners that on a lease from VW a California works out cheaper than a mid range Golf over 3 years.

Old campers (not just VW's) seem to bottom out in value as well - even a shitty old camper with high mileage will be worth proper money while a car of the same vintage would be unsaleable.

A £60k Buerstner or Hobby would drop £20k in the first year (ish)

30% in a year seems quie high - are you sure?

The motorhome we bought had lost £18k over 10 years from it's new price (about 35%).

Out first C-class motorhome, bought new in 2004 and traded in against the our current one in 2010, only lost £5K on it's new value during that period (and I could probably have got more if I had sold it privately). The current one will have lost a bit more but still won't be more than about 25%, also over a 6 year period from new.

May as well chip in as this thread has a few owners. I'm in the UK and looking at T5s but will be moving to Geneva for two years as of Feb 2017. Not sure to buy in the UK and drive a RHD abroad or buy a LHD in Europe - or any other combination. Are prices still level in Europe ?
( yes I can look up on abay but local knowledge is appreciated )

I don't believe the MPG is that difference if comparing like-for-like. VWs own claims for a short wheelbase low roof van vs long wheelbase high roof is a whopping 1.5mpg different. Motorhomes are probably lower again than a high-top, but I suspect not by that much - they're basically a van, with a van engine, and a slightly larger front profile - that might knock 20% off the mpg, but not 50%

With the C-classes we've had a lot depends on how you drive it. My current one, on a 2.4 turbo diesel Transit, is quite quick - it can cruise at 85mph on the autoroutes. It does drop to below 20mpg if you do that though, but more sensible speeds see an average of into 22-24mpg region. Not great, but actually about the same as I manage in my car.

on and on - Member
May as well chip in as this thread has a few owners. I'm in the UK and looking at T5s but will be moving to Geneva for two years as of Feb 2017. Not sure to buy in the UK and drive a RHD abroad or buy a LHD in Europe - or any other combination. Are prices still level in Europe ?
( yes I can look up on abay but local knowledge is appreciated )

prices are faily high... try autoscout24.ch for a tester..

The main thing I find is that the van sits in the garage pretty much ready to go all the time, after every trip we restock and get it clean, bike rack is on it. A few weeks back the Wx forecast changed to be good, I left work at 3:30, rode home 20 minutes, bikes on back, quick shower and change - was sitting in the sun eating fish and chips in Oban at 7:30, we've done a lot of that which if it was elsewhere or a faff would make it harder.

It's not that much of an extra faff to be honest. We also keep ours ready to go and the storage place is only 10 minutes drive away. If we're going away on a Friday evening we'd normally bring it to the house the night before (I sometimes cycle out to get it our sometimes take a car and leave that at the storage place). If we decided to go on the Friday we just chuck the stuff we need (clothes and food) into the car, drive out to the storage place (which as it happens would be on-route to Oban!) and exchange the car for the motorhome. We even leave bikes in the motorhome garage so don't have to bother sorting those out.

If heading far north we'll leave after work on the Friday evening and just overnight on-route (we've got a couple of spots we often use). The advantage with a fixed bed C-class being that we can be in bed pretty much immediately after stopping and can still have showers in the morning without needed access to any facilities.

@wwaswas I reckon it's about right. We looked at a one year old Buerstner that was £62k new, but retailing on a retailer's site at £48k used on a 15 plate and 9k miles; I guess trade on that would have been somewhere between £43 and £45k, so nearly £20k drop. I do think depreciation from there on in will be very low, but I'm most likely to want to get out of it in the first year or so if we just don't get the use out of it.

@5lab We got 39.8mpg on the California up to Pitlochery and back, cruise set at 60 or 65mph, not much traffic apart from around Edinburgh.

We run LWB Ducato 130 or 140bhp at work, and no matter how carefully it gets driven it's never bettered 26 to 28mph when loaded with a 400kg load. Add on a proper conversion like the Hobby T765 I mentioned, and I reckon with the added drag and weight you'd be very lucky to see 25mpg, and more likely much less.

@Neb Again, the £60k thing isn't me moaning about the size or facilities, but the choice of some of the materials, layout, features and build: the seats mark really easily, the internal table should extend, the windows were delaminating, the rearmost bench should lift from both ends so you can access the contents from inside the van, the diesel heater isn't routed in a way to get any of the air to the top bunk of the van, the diesel heater vents into the drive away awning (if you ran it all night, any drive away awning would smell terrible I imagine), the sat nav is hopeless, the catches on the doors under the sink kept popping off, did I mention the seats mark more easily than any other material in any car I've ever had and so on.

I sound like a right fanny, totally aware of that, but before taking it away I'd been unable to find anything really negative about the build quality of the 'factory' conversion in any of the forums I'd beeen on, but I was disappointed given the cost.

Maybe I just need to reset my expectations, though: I think I do. A Golf GTI is £30k, a decent 3 series tourer is £40k and so on. I think I just need to try it again with different expectations, and a drive away awning (or buy that Tribute, which looks perfect for us, and a small cheap car as a daily driver).

May as well chip in as this thread has a few owners. I'm in the UK and looking at T5s but will be moving to Geneva for two years as of Feb 2017. Not sure to buy in the UK and drive a RHD abroad or buy a LHD in Europe - or any other combination. Are prices still level in Europe ?

Left hand drive motorhomes used to be cheaper and plentiful - not sure what the score is now.

Switzerland is somewhere we tend to avoid with our van as it's plated to 3800kg so more of a problem with the motorway charges etc.

epicsteve - sounds handy, nearest storage to me would be a good half hour away which creates a bit of a barrier, all depends on circumstance. What does your storage cost annually ?

epicsteve - sounds handy, nearest storage to me would be a good half hour away which creates a bit of a barrier, all depends on circumstance. What does your storage cost annually ?

Can't really recall but I think it's under £400. That's near Edinburgh - suspect it would be more if I stored it down here in London.

I'm in Edinburgh too. Will drop you a mail.