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We've wanted one for ages. My boys are now 6 and 3 and the perfect age to start getting away more at the weekends with (less) hassle than a year or so ago, and the perfect size for a small camper van.
We're not really big campers, I could never really be arsed with putting up tents to stay in one place, and not really a fan of campsites. My idea of getting away from it is not being parked alongside 30 other folk doing the same. Nevertheless, ahead of ordering a California after spending years deciding on a perfect specification, we thought we'd hire one. We took off to do 500 in a few days up to the Highlands.
Not long back, and feel really disappointed.
[b]The good[/b]
It a good size to drive on the roads, no issues getting anywhere nadgery
We sat at 65mph nearly all the way, and returned 40mpg (this was the 204bhp, DSG T6 Ocean)
Adaptive cruise control fitted made driving slowly behind jump ties who love a good brake pedal really not stressful at all... First time I've used it, my next car will have it.
The diesel heater is quiet and bloody effective
[b]The bad[/b]
I didn't find the seats comfortable for a long drive, surprised at that...
I wasn't expecting it to be quick, but it felt really flat (and noisy)
The seats mark really easily. Even a water spill left a stain. If I'd just dropped £60k on one I'd be devestated how easily they mark (although it's cleaned up okay). Maybe Alcantara is better?
The roof canvas leaks supposedly, not really close to water proof according to the salesman (heavy rain last night had us waiting for ingress). Needs a topper.
The standard Ocean doesn't come with a mattress topper for downstairs, my back is still hurting (maybe I should MTFU, but not for £60k - it should be standard)
The new front window blinds want to retract continuously, and a bit more fiddly than they need to be to close
The front seats take a lot of gigging about to swivel without marking the doors/pillars. We got on okay, we were clearly a lot more patient than the previous renters
You can't expect to cook if the internal table is being used. We thought we'd be outside cooking anyway, but because it was lashing down we had no option. I guess it needs a side awning...
The biggest problem though is just the usability of the storage. There really isn't much for more than one or two nights away for a family. The upper shelf can only really take sleeping bags because once you flatten the bed you need to move everything off, and there's nowhwhere to put the stuff you move without going outside (acceptable I suppose if it's not lashing down, or again, if you've got a side awning.
The drawer underneath the rear bench seems useful, except if it wasn't there at least you could slide stuff around underneath to get things or put stuff away. As it is, you have to get out the van and open the back up to reach the limited storage you do have.
The internal table is also compromised. I know why it's the size it is, but it could really do with being a bit longer or extendable so four could use it, rather that just two.
The conclusion I've come to is the size is fine for four if you have a drive away awning for storage and cooking, maybe putting two people in to sleep and maybe a portable toilet too. It was lashing down last night and I spent the whole night (because I couldn't sleep without the mattress topper) wondering at what time I'd be taking the three year old to the toilet, only to return wet with nowhere to get changed in the van. I guess wild camping with no toilet, in our weather, is too risky (at least with kids) - and I don't want to be on a campsite.
Without a side awning, at least for four, I think it's just too small. Maybe I'm missing something?
Regardless of all of that, the choice of material for the seats is crazy, the carpets don't suit those who like mud, and the general quality of fit and finish is nothing like the web leads you to believe. It's not a premium van in my opinion, and it's not cheap.
It's on the drive now. I still want to buy it, and I have no idea why. I've only ever read good things about it online, both my wife and I keep wondering how we can be so wrong... Off to look at a Buerstner Ixeo tomorrow. Absolutely not cool, but for the same money I think it'll be a better fit for us.
Not sure what you expected from something with the footprint of an estate car.
A tardis ?
I do agree on you - value for money they are not.
Imo they are a fine day van for 2 , you have to really want to make them work for any more than that . Ill take the slight inconvienance of a bigger vehicle to drive than being able to use teh van as a daily driver any day.
Agree completely, total naivety thinking it was doable without an awning. But we hadn't realised how the inaccessible the limited storage would be...
Edit: was about to add this to the OP, but I think I read so much borderline evangelical posts all over the net, that it was fine for a young family of four without an awning (and I wanted to believe it). I don't want my weekends to be a military exercise in planning, my week is enough of that, but it's how I think people must get it to work for them.
I can't see how you'd want one and not want to be on campsites ever? They're not as good as a proper camper van imho. Only time I'd consider one of those was if I could drop 100k on something pretty substantial and then I'd want a small car towed behind so we didn't have to derig everything to nip to the shops. First impressions etc..
I don't understand them, but I don't understand 1) Campers, especially expensive ones £60k buys a lot of lovely holidays that don't involve shitting in a bucket or sleeping in van 2) Transporters in general, I think a lot of people miss the asterix oh they drive beautifully *for a van they comfortable *for a van they're economical *for a van etc.
Each to their own, but everytime someone tells me they've spent £40k on a Van as their daily-vehicle to make the scarce few hours a week they get to do their hobby a tiny bit easier I think they've lost their dam mind.
I grew up with the original VW caravanette, I even did my driving test in one. I always thought when I was old and bent that I would get one, or the modern equivalent of. Now that oldness and bentness has come upon me and I can no longer be bothered with camping in the cold, midges and wet: I fancy one BUT £60k!!! you are ******* joking! For that money me and the OH can stay in a luxury hotel whenever the mood takes us for the rest of our earthly span; it's not as if there were no associated running costs owning a Shagin' Wagon either!!!
I could drop 100k on something pretty substantial and then I'd want a small car towed behind
Dropping that much money you want to be like the people we passed this evening on the London outer car park.
Evoque on a trailer behind the van!!
this is why i bought my T5 2nd hand and have converted it so that it suits my needs.... not what some ultra efficient Germans in Wolfsburg think everyone wants.
the Calis are ok... in a beige sort of way.
look at buying a standard Kombi and converting it yourself or finding a firm to do it for you.
don't bother with SCA or Reimo roofs. as you say, the canvas isn't water proof. instead, have a look at HiLo roofs. much higher lifting means you do not scrape your head on the ceiling. they open out and have a lower profile when closed meaning you do not stand out as a "camper".
if you look at a LWB you'll find you'll have enough room for either you or the kids to sleep behind the 2nd row of seats. no more sliding and collapsing the seats back and forth to make a (uncomfy) bed.
will post some pics of mine later....
You can get a lot more camper for £60k. I never knew they cost that, it's almost as bad as the £44k swb Landrover Defender that's up for sale down the road.
I'm sure that some fool will be easily parted from their money though.
Or start with something a descent size and just accept its less efficient but a much nicer place to be when your parked up.
They are definitely a campsite van... I hadn't really been on one for ages and although I was really impressed with the site (Blair Castle up in Pitlochry), I really found being surrounded by so many other people pretty claustrophobic.
Again, I realise this might be bleeding obvious to those who are experienced with sites, but for us it was a reminder that I want a van big enough to have everything I need to get away from everybody. Looking back, I can't believe I thought wild camping with a family and a California was remotely possible or well thought through - at least for us.
Anyway, the post was more meant to highlight that I really can't see how it's such a lauded van for quality or attention to detail. Seats, fabrics, colours, unit fit, the Windows were delaminating (10k miles), short table etc. I could have lived with all that for £40k maybe, but not the current price.
I have had a VW camper for 15 years. They are great for two people as they are small enough to drive anywhere. We have taken ours all over Europe as a couple.
Even after having children we used it a lot, but now they are 3 and 5 it is a little more difficult. You need a decent size awning so that you can put the child seats outside at night. Awning also allows you to store bedding etc if you want to use the van during the day without spending an hour packing everything away.
However for days out/picnics etc they are perfect as there is so much storage, we are now using ours more as a day/overnight van rather than a holiday vehicle.
I can see that Paul.
Funnily enough Alpin, a mate with an 8Ball LWB is telling me he's coming over this week to show me the error of the Cali's way... I'll have bought something deeply uncool (but bloody comfortable) before then. 🙂
Isn't the main problem with the VW converted vans that the slide door is on the wrong side meaning your kids have to hop out in to the traffic? Suicide doors!
We have a T4 camper. Home converted. 225k on the clock. But bought off a friend for under £4,000. It has never disappointed me...
Edit to say that we just spent 4 ace weeks in the Pyrenees in it. A mix of campsites then wild camping. Two adults and two kid at 10 and 12. Plus five bikes. Kids in a tent when in sites but in the roof when not.
I recently had a hired camper based on a fiat ducato panel van 6m long). again around £60 000 worth of vehicle. this was for two folk for 2 weeks. Still a bit cramped and short of space. campers are a compromise. I have also rented a bigger one - as big as you can drive on a B license (8m?) - that was great to camp in but dreadful on smaller roads
the reason we hired on this time was we were going up north and the forecast was poor - so for that it did its job. Had the tandem in the back and all for driving ( i won't put it on a rack)
all campers are compromises - just pick what you want to compromise on more. with two kids I'd be looking at something much bigger than what you had.
Mind you my parents spent 3 months in one when me and my sister were small - and that was a bedford C1 which makes the california look big.
There are cheaper options available. *
*may not have VW badge
"Isn't the main problem with the VW converted vans that the slide door is on the wrong side meaning your kids have to hop out in to the traffic? Suicide doors!"
Its only an issue if you park that way round......if it was such an issue you would just turn the car round and park the other way.......then when your in a country in europe that enforces the face the traffic rule your doors on the right side 🙂
If I had that much cash to blow, I'd be looking at a compact low profile coachbuilt with a fixed rear bed and garage. As a plus, it will have a proper bog.
Not sure if you'll find one in the 6 metre 'car space' category with 4 berths, but you won't need to go much longer. You can also get slimline ones that are only a few inches wider than the cab.
The rear bed can be great, a whole set of bedding that doesn't need a home, a lounging space/2nd room in poor weather, space for coats/bags/kids bedding, the list goes on. And of course, garage space underneath for family junk, or bikes.
You may not like campsites, but surely they are easier with young kids?
Perhaps try some of the 'certified locations' micro campsites, often limited to just 5 units and a tap. We stayed at one, I think it was £5 per pitch and we camped on a grass strip up the side of a cornfield...lovely 🙂
I'll say it like I say on every T5 camper thread; the layout of the Amdro Angel conversion runs rings around any other that I've seen. Huuuuuuuge amount of storage space.
Isn't the main problem with the VW converted vans that the slide door is on the wrong side meaning your kids have to hop out in to the traffic? Suicide doors!
forgot that UK Calis are just Euro Calis with the steering wheel swapped over...
just had a look on the 8Ball site... not really much different to a Cali layout, is it?
Bothered my wife a lot more than me, Ian. I was aware of it on the 50 times we stopped for the kids to have a wee on the journey, but not enough that would stop my buying one.
Agreed TJ, I suppose this the start of a process that I really wanted to be the end of one. Again, blissful ignorance or naivety on my part. I was hoping to swap the car for a camper, realise I'll need both now.
But if you are in the uk you need to park 'that way round' because other wise you have to drive on the wrong side of the road. You arrivals allowed to do that if there's a marked parking area.
Fine when camping up for the night but my experience of owning a T4 camper as our only vehicle is the actual parking it for caring is the minority.
I think you've come across the problems a lot of people have, it's just not what you expect it to be.
You have to make it work for what you want. I used to have a proper California with all the kitchen etc and like you found it too small to be useful. I sold that and bought a California beach (same but without the kitchen) which for me was 100times better. I use a waeco coolbox which takes up no room, cook outside and don't miss the sink. I never used the cooker and rarely used the sink in my old Cali.
Because there's no stuff inside a beach you get a full width bed which is slightly shorter than the full Cali so also more room when it's down, more storage at the rear under the bed, and a whole load more room with the seat up and pushed back. Whatever van you have of this size there will always be overspill to the outside when you're camping with 4.
Oh, and I can also get 5 bikes and kit in the back of the beach 🙂 and mine cost less than £35k as a fully loaded dealer ex demo with 12 miles on it.
id say try it again before making a choice now you've experienced it. Best thing I ever bought.
My parents viewed one of the [url= http://www.elddis.co.uk/elddis/Accordo/accordo-120 ]Elddis Accordo 120 [/url] recently as they'll both be retired soon and want to explore at their own pace,head off to Greece etc. Seems pretty good vfm and there is a lot more useable space compared to the VW Califiorna which is more of a weekend away for 2 type of thing.
Needless to say I'll be borrowing it at every opportunity
Thought the same, ending up converting a Trafic SWB, and bought a driveaway awning for extended adventures. Saved a lot, don't feel I lost much, apart from some badge envy (mine).
They're all a compromise was what I came to realise; trade off space against manouverability against money.
We've had to bite the bullet and sell our t5 this year as we were struggling for space with just 2 adults and a 4yo. It's ok as long as the weather is good and you can use the outside space, but it's hard to rely on that in the UK.
We've gone for a 4 berth coach-built now, loads more space means its far more weatherproof as a practical space, it has a garage so the good bikes can go inside out of view, beds can be left made up so it's easy to just rock up at a site and be done. And they're relatively cheap compared to the VW's.
I thought the California came with a wind out awning as standard.
Have a look at some of the other offerings out there if you want to go down the VW route.
There is a half hour comparison between various T5s on YouTube , I guess most of them now do T6 models
Its only an issue if you park that way round......if it was such an issue you would just turn the car round and park the other way.....
love that. It's classic VW ownerbabblebullsit. The door being on the wrong side and a total pain in the arse and badlythought out is only a problem if you don't cross the carriageway and park on the other side of the road.
Made me laugh.
The Calif really shouldn't have got Type approval for the UK, based on where the sliding door is. Laughable.
Anyway OP. Yes the Caliphs are too small to be much use with kids. The LWB is significanly better. But it's still a huge compromise between what it's like to drive and what it's like when you're stationary.
I have a Cali Beach as a daily driver and weekend van (3 kids). We have had a week in it with an awning when we had two kids but would only wild camp as two for which its ace. 10k cheaper, good residuals and a load of fun.
Sliding door on one side no issue as you can walk out the passenger door if scary.
have only ever been on three campsite with our van and that was because we needed fresh water and a decent shower.....
camping generlly looks like this:
not a single bugger in sight
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8096/29615517025_8b27cbc640_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8096/29615517025_8b27cbc640_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M82gqv ]DSC_0336[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8332/28989635564_c84a25e9ac_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8332/28989635564_c84a25e9ac_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/LaHsEQ ]DSC_0335[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
and the interior layout is like this (old photos from when it was installed)..... bikes and/or snowboards can be stored inside, too.
[url= https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8205/29534463061_4972af71e1_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8205/29534463061_4972af71e1_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/LZRQUn ]DSC_0622[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
storeage repeated on both sides as well as two large drawers.
[url= https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8302/29615379275_6429e67b45_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8302/29615379275_6429e67b45_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M81ytv ]DSC_0623[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
cooker/sink... can choose to either stand outside and cook or if the weather is pants i can cook inside...
[url= https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8289/29615381415_f63f2a73f4_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8289/29615381415_f63f2a73f4_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M81z7p ]DSC_0624[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
fridge....
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8355/29615376945_5f6dd3b22c_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8355/29615376945_5f6dd3b22c_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M81xMk ]DSC_0630[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
boards can be moved separately to create a "L" shaped seating.... either front or rear board depending on the weather/cooking.
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8180/28991668633_59fdd76f74_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8180/28991668633_59fdd76f74_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/LaTT2K ]DSC_0625[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
bed... (GF is sewing the matress.)
[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8072/29580804426_258ac3e71f_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8072/29580804426_258ac3e71f_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M4Xmzq ]DSC_0626[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/72344643@N00/ ]sod_the_taxman[/url], on Flickr
all up it has cost me around 7K so far inc. roof. still have the plumbing to fit and a drawer front.
the idea is to build a storage pod that can be installed when the 2nd row of seats are removed.
(still have the single seat, but rarely do i carry more than four people).
As a family of 5 we used to go away on a Fiat Amigo for a week with a driveway awning. T5's have acres of space. 😉
Edit: one of these. And the awning was so small, my brother and I had our legs under the van when we slept.
[img] 
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Thanks all.
Alpin, plenty food for thought, there. Suspect I need to really buy a van a live with it to really understand what I want/need.
Maybe I get a Beach and awning to figure out what I want from a LWB, or get a proper motorhome and keep a car too. Plenty to think about including, crucially, whether I ever want to go back on a campsite. If the answer is no then I need a toilet and shower on board for a few days away.
Again though, The acalifornia looks good on the drive. Really good.
That could be the point, Matt: our two boys had an awesome time and want to buy the Cali.
If the hassle of using a Cali didn't kill me, they'd have some brilliant memories!
Thanks for this even though the outcome was less than you hoped for.. I am in exactly the same place and have a T6 Cali booked for a long weekend shortly for a test drive before potentially buying one. There would be myself the Mrs and a 4 year old so similar requirements and expectations. I'm guessing our experience may be similar to yours but let's wait and see. Out of curiosity who makes/builds good smallish campervans? Are they all similar or does one company do it better than others?
Thanks
I need a toilet and shower on board for a few days away.
no, no you don't..... have you ever had to empty/smell a chemical toilet being emptied? it is not for the feint hearted!
KISS....
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I have a Cali and have done for years. It's good but not perfect but then again it fits in my garage, doubles as a bike van and is really handy. We swither with selling it all the time. There's 3 of us. It's a very small campervan, some hate on this thread for it which is interesting. Strangely we've no issues with storage at all, internal topper means it's bone dry upstairs all the time and you def need seat covers and a topper for downstairs. It's a bizarre choice of internal colour but new ones you can have black. Expensive for what it is but having examined most conversions to me it's still a solid van. We have awning sides and also a drive away for long holidays. Saying that we reckon it's a good 3 night van with a 4 year old and long hols need to be somewhere solid just now so we all get a break.
I've just spent the weekend at a place with composting toilets. Those things are not designed for the gentleman to stand while making the bladder gladder. I have seen things that cannot be unseen
See, I thought a shovel was adequate, but last night at 3am in the rain, if the little fella had told me he wanted a poo and we were wild camping I'd be questioning my choice. Side awning off a Beach though, and a chemical toilet kept in a roof box for emergencies might do it.
Let me know how you get on, Juan. I think with three people you might get away with it. Plan on having yours and especially your child's night sleep wear ready in the pull down storage above the rear seats ahead of travelling (and using the top bed to get the 4 year old ready). That, and spending £30 upwards on a gas BBQ to cook under the wind-out awning (if it has one), will solve half the problems.
The top bed is pretty cold even with the heater running, I reckon you'll want a two season, rather than one season, bag. In case you're thinking about it, we were, I wouldn't put a 4 year old up there at this time of year with a quilt rather than bag, because it'll be freezing when they kick it off.
I still think on hindsight, similar to Squealer and Scuttler, I'd be as happy with Beach and an awning without bitching about value for money. Suspect happier still with a LWB.
Well the camping pics sum up a van of that size, it's a way to get you there and have what you need but plan to be living outdoors. As a van they are on the small size (narrow for a start) so once you start putting stuff in they get tighter.
Given the amount you are wanting to spend why not go for something a decent size
http://www.convertyourvan.co.uk/largevanprices.html
http://www.build-a-camper.co.uk/infopage.aspx?aid=18
Just back from a 3 week tour of the Alps mix of 2/3 days wild camping then 4/5 on a campsite and we think we have nailed the art of camping in a van. side awning for the wild camping so it keeps the seats/gear dry.
We purchase an Vango Airbeam awning for the longer stays and it goes up in no more than 10 minutes class bit of kit but pricy.
T5/6 haterz will always hate for some strange reason.
Looking at getting a tow bar fitted so we can have a storage rack below the bike rack to store the inflatable kayak and awning as would not like to store them in the van wet!
[url= https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8129/29581959526_2bea897819_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8129/29581959526_2bea897819_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M54gWW ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8429/29535737241_bc03dc713d_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8429/29535737241_bc03dc713d_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/LZYnEZ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8779/29582046316_db399c781a_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8779/29582046316_db399c781a_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M54HKj ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
This is the big one we had in france. Full size double bed in the back with another that dropped down over the front seats plus the sitting area made up into a third. Boot big enough to take the tandem. That would be comfy for a family no trouble. I never used the shower tho and the loo was only for night time piddles. Something like this gets you a nice comfy place to live but is compromised to drive
[url= https://c5.staticflickr.com/4/3362/3567108244_2bcebe7521_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c5.staticflickr.com/4/3362/3567108244_2bcebe7521_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/6rdn1h ]DSC00038[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/ ]TandemJeremy[/url], on Flickr
But then this one mum and dad and me and my sis spent 3 months in ( in 1966) makes the cali look big
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T5/6 haterz will always hate for some strange reason.
and the evangalists will only ever have sunny pics and rose tinted specs 😉 Most of the posts are very balanced and reasoned Rich, nice tent BTW shame they pitched it in front of your van 😉
Has anyone tried the Merc equivalent the Marco Polo?
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/its-mercs-answer-vw-camper
My idea of getting away from it is not being parked alongside 30 other folk doing the same.
Not in a position to comment on the van, but let me point out that campsites are not all like that. In fact, I'd wager that by numbers most aren't.
Camping and Caravan club, and Caravan Club have what they call Certified Locations. They are limited to 5 other campers and have a tap, sometimes toilets, sometimes showers. There are thousands of them all over the country, including all the upland and wilder parts, and mostly not even full so you end up in a field overlooking some fantastic view with no-one around. And they usually cost less than a tenner.
It does mean you have to join the club though and they send you a magazine which could've been written for a Top Gear episode.. definitely do not read the letters page.... 😳
This is when I had rose tinted specs 🙂
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/albums/72157600305868872
[url= https://c6.staticflickr.com/2/1055/530206573_4cfee9b683_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c6.staticflickr.com/2/1055/530206573_4cfee9b683_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/NRrWD ]Heading out of Glenbrittle[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr
Well the camping pics sum up a van of that size, it's a way to get you there and have what you need but plan to be living outdoors. As a van they are on the small size (narrow for a start) so once you start putting stuff in they get tighter.
i don't know about you, but i find sunbathing naked inside the van somewhat counter productive..... and as for firing up the grill.....
love that. It's classic VW ownerbabblebullsit. The door being on the wrong side and a total pain in the arse and badlythought out is only a problem if you don't cross the carriageway and park on the other side of the road
So much wrong assumption in your post - even from what I've written here in this thread it's clear I'm a hater. I just don't see what the big deal is about the above point.
Its not.
i don't know about you, but i find sunbathing naked inside the van somewhat counter productive..... and as for firing up the grill.....
Me too, but I live in Oz where it's sunny all the time and all that. In the UK it's not always as nice, as pointed out by the OP the main cooker is inside. If you want to use that you can't do as much.
Having van camped all over the UK in all weathers being able to sit inside and cook/eat etc without tripping over everything would be nice. Also not having the put up a tent every time you want some more space as the van you have is small. It's a compromise vehicle where people see beyond it's quirks a lot of the time - like the bike rack on every one - great but your bikes are outside all the time on show. For the 60k the OP is looking at I can see why he has some doubts.
can't expect to cook if the internal table is being used
I don't get this....we cook all the time with the internal table in use?
As for the rest of it, there's only two of us in ours, and it works pretty well...you have to get used to moving things to get at things, but storage is pretty good for two.
Actually I don't understand why so many people thing the downstairs bed is unbearable without a topper mattress....I think it's pretty comfy
Can't imagine trying to get a portaloo out of a roofbox...not one thats ready for use anyway!
If its just for emergencies, how about one of those bogs with a bag, they start from the foldable cardboard shitbox aka Ploo, but you can get plastic variants with a seat as well. Much lighter and more compact than a portaloo holding 20 litres of fluid (some flush and 'enough to cover solids' base).
Whilst we are talking about the T6, I find it strange that VW haven't really taking advantage, and created a modern take on the classic 'splitty'...doesn't matter if you look at the Mini, Fiat 500, Beetle, although they've all got a bit blobby in recent years, they've all sold well.
They could do some clever stuff with a custom full raising roof, A class style drop down double bed over the cab, (which would have less bonnet and a steeper windscreen adding to the interior length - driving position would just be behind a much bigger dashboard), the possibilities go on with perhaps a side tailgate that opens to create an instant awning (with sides and the windows become a sunroof). A tad wider and you'd get a sideways bed at the back saving yet more space.
And it would still be a T6 from the floorpan down...
I get campers at the cheaper end, but if you are going to spend £30k + that's a lot of years you could spend in very nice cottages where you don't have people so close to you etc
Having overcome my 10-year resistance to getting a campervan (and having hired them in the past), I spent the spring and summer agonising over which to get.
For a T5/6 to be an effective use of what is a lot of money for the vast majority of people (including us), the campervan needed to be our main family vehicle. I looked very closely at a new T6 - from the base £37k Beach to top-spec £60k Ocean - as well as every other T5/6-based variant from DIY conversions of older T5s to big-name conversions on new T6s.
VW's own California offerings are very expensive when compared to builder's van-based conversions. I'm sure they are superior, but for most they won't be as good value. We settled on a Danbury conversion of a 3-year-old T5, which offers the function of a Cali Ocean - but without such a nice base vehicle spec. A Beach with a cooking pod was an option, too. Being a T5/6 though, most things you want can be retrofitted - and it seemed better to us to get a conversion with cooking etc already set up. I'll probably add some modern touches to our base van; like parking sensors, uprated stereo and possibly a new steering wheel.
These vehicles are small and do involve compromises, but will generally fit into most people's lives well and be capable of fulfilling a lot of roles. For us, being a compact day van and overnight camper was more important than being a multi-week camper.
I've just got rid of our modern and comfortable MPV, which was our only car. The campervan now fulfils all roles apart from being a city car (which we've now got as well). The T5/6 is great at covering lots of bases adequately, but not necessarily being the best at any - and should be seen in that context IMO.
FunkyDunc, we've talked about that a lot. There are lots of places I want to go and explore, Norway and Scandanavia, Europe and so on. I just want to jump in something with the family and travel wherever we want or don't want, no timetable.
I could hire a van for the same purposes, but the idea of heading out on a Friday at 5 for a couple of hours drive to escape urban life, returning on a Sunday night after nearly of walking or biking really appeals. In my mind, we'd be using it every other weekend, I accept reality could be different. It would also replace my car and when you put them both together spending £60k on something that would still have an unbelievable strong residual in 10 years more or less makes sense. The actual cost of ownership is pretty low.
Twodogs: maybe it's the extra people, where did you prep? I had two boys trying to build Lego (I know) on the table, so I was chopping and prepping on my knee. Trying to get anything out of the cupboards under the table once I started was very awkward. Again, I should have thought about this before we travelled but until you try something it's hard to know whether the limitations you're expecting are mildly compromising or debilitating. No mattress topper would be fine for the odd night, but more than one night back to back is more uncomfortable than I'd want it to be. It's fine with a topper, just don't understand why it's now an extra...
Spooky: I was thinking more travel with the loo in the roof box, but get it out when you set up camp. On quite a few forums, people travel with it under the cutlery draw in the kitchen cupboard. Maybe I'm precious, but I think that's pretty grim.
Did you see the links above to the fit out kits for other vans? Possible to get a layout that works better or suits you more (or a bigger cheaper Van, keep the car and have some change)
returning on a Sunday night after nearly of walking or biking really appeals. In my mind, we'd be using it every other weekend,
You will be needing the what bike rack thread next...
We had a self converted T5 for a good few years. Full width R&R bed, removable cooker pod, table, swivel fronts etc but no pop top. 2 of us plus dog.
We used to have a '72 bay which was even smaller, albeit with a pop top and full Devon camper conversion.
The best way to look at them is as a big metal tent that you can drive around. They are much nearer to that in size and use ability than they are to a full size camper.
We loved ours for short breaks where we were out all day, maybe going to the pub in the evening or chilling outside. When the weather was rubbish, or there wasn't anywhere within walking distance it can get a bit wearing being sat in the van especially if you've not got an awning. Same for longer trips if you've got more stuff with you.
Seemed to spend a fair bit of time moving things around to get to other things, having to be super organised all the time.
We got rid last year and bought a caravan. Much better for longer trips, foul weather and for lounging around in. Useless for wild camping and a bit less spontaneity.
The smaller vans are great for their intended purpose but you need to be happy with the lack of space and other restrictions placed on them by their size and the way the inside features are packaged. It's a lot of money too so I'd strongly suggest looking at some of the indipendant conversions as well as the 'official' VW ones to see if their interior suit you better.
Will second Caravan Club CL sites too, we never stay on their full blown sites, always use CLs. Max 5 pitches, facilities ranging from the min of running water and chemical waste point up to luxury showers, wi fi etc. Wide range of prices too.
Its coming round to the time when the Motorhome show is on at the NEC. You can view almost every van in on place without shooting off all over the country to view them. There are always some good deals on Thats what we did two years ago and bought one, a Chausson Welcome 718 EB, for the start of last years summer. We have done 10,000 miles in it since we bought it. Should have bought one years ago.
We wanted a VW in the 80s when each weekend was spent on the beach windsurfing but decided as we got older that we needed the creature comforts of a bigger one. Only criteria was a garage for four bikes and a bed that didnt need making up. When we went to the show we had no intention of buying but bought one on impulse as the deals were so good.
Setting off tonight for the EWS in Valberg for another week in it.
Kevins dad had one of those Bedfords, he spent most weekends as a kid some where in Yorkshire due to the fact of its speed and gearbox they never managed to get any further.
I did, Mike, thanks. I don't really have the time or skill to really get stuck into it like that, but I'll be speaking to a couple of coach builders about potential layout.
I agree, Matt. The thing is though, after thinking that an awning is needed for cooking and breakout/seating areas for family use, a topper to keep the raised roof waterproof and so on, I might as well just stick with a car a buy a bigger tent.
The thread turned into how we could make that size van for us, which is great and I've enjoyed reading every post, the OP was more about how disappointed I was with the build, layout and quality of materials for the money.
Was looking at this last night before I fell asleep. Great seating, beds, full size internal garage, space to sit and cook if it's raining, toilet, shower and so on for the same price. It'll probably be lucky to break 25mpg, and I'd need a small car for daily duties, but it looks like much better value to me. https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/172237872220
We just bought a coachbuilt motorhome, 7.5m and based on a Fiat Ducato.
We hired somethign similar during the summer to try and make sure it would work for us.
We also looked at the 'converted panel van' type of campers (big Fiats etc) and VW T6's etc.
They're all a compromise the smaller the van the less space you have to carry out tasks inside if it's raining (we mainly do uk stuff) and the more 'on top' of each other you all feel after a few days. The larger van conversions still felt like a compromise as they tend to have very limited floor space.
So, for us a full size motorhome with a decent amount of storage, a shower we can hang wet clothes in, decent lockers round the outside for storing chairs, electric cables etc, enough space for 2 adults, 2 teenagers and a large dog to travel (the kids have their own tent if they come with us so actual sleeping apace wasn't a priority) comfortably and be able to sit round on a rainy morning whilst breakfast cooks etc was the logical choice.
I think if you're a family lookign for a 'second car with benefits' or a couple who'd be in a smallish tent then a campervan makes sense but if you just want it for going away in or woudl buy a large family tent then there's too much of a compromise in owning one.
We've done tent camping (massive Outwell job), owned a caravan, had a trailer tent etc and for us the motorhome is the least awkward and most convenient solution for weekends away and a week or two away a few times a year.
But everyone's different.
IF you're looking to buy a motorhome I'd rent one of a similar size and layout for a weekend at least to make sure you're happy. Take it to the sort of site you'd stay at and make sure it'll go down the roads you;d drive, fit in the places you'd visit etc.
Biggest issue with any van conversion or coach built is the proliferation of height restricted car parks, tbh.
Plenty of 6 metre vans that are about the same length as a LWB T5 plus a bike rack, but the benefit of having the bikes in the garage when you want to park up and go for a meal. Obviously you end up with a high roof, but don't find car park barriers too much of an issue.
If you are speaking to converters, and are not too tall, you won't go far wrong with a medium length Ducato, sideways rear bed and garage. Just need to do some careful measuring as there is always a compromise with space for built up bikes under the bed, and sitting headroom whilst in bed. I've opted for a height that means I can sit up, and need to take just the front wheels off the bikes.
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On the reality front - a camper like that one you posted is a different kettle of fish to a Cali. Size, storage etc all need to be considered. I've got nowhere I could safely park something that big - my van fits in my double garage no worries so on that front it works. We keep looking at sprinter size conversions but it comes back to having that plus a rarely used car. Be realistic about getting away as well with kids that age - school, Friday being knackered, sports, parties etc all eat into the 'just go' mind space and you can find that you end up using it once in a blue moon (after the honeymoon summer !) we have managed it this year with 14 trips so far inc me using it to ski twice. Will you go away in the winter ? One good thing on the VWs seems to be residuals as I have someone looking at mine meaning it will have cost me 5k over 2 years and 14000miles which I don't think is too bad.
Edit - scuttles away to copy Alpins van!
Just bought this, and even adding in 5k for converting (no way will I spend that much though!) I'd still be well shy of a quarter of the cost of a new T6 camper.
As suggested in earlier posts, it's a van, not a car and it doesn't drive like a car. I will use it as a race van, the only other person sleeping in it will be my 9 year old daughter, mrs Nobeer will not set foot in it!.
Any camper/caravan/whatever is a compromise, as long as you're willing to make that compromise, then it's fine. 60k is an awful lot of bed and breakfasts!.
[img][url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8516/29625753945_9a47939790_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8516/29625753945_9a47939790_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/M8VJv8 ]Veedub[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nobeerinthefridge/ ]nobeerinthefridge[/url], on Flickr[/img]
We have spent a long time away this year in a self converted lwb, no pop top. I built the furniture as a bench down each side plus a kitchen unit, so along the lines of alpin's above (some really good ideas there), except our bed goes full width. We have room to store a winter down duvet, pillows, and a memory foam topper in one bench, and clothes for 2 weeks in the other. The bed is as comfortable as my bed at home. We started with an awning but it is a pain to lug about and put up and down, so instead we cut down on the amount of extra shit and make do with a canopy.
The point is, you get enough space for 2, but that's it. I wouldn't want 4 in one for more than 1 dry night. If I had kids I'd want something bigger.
We stay on campsites and see a huge amount of t5/6s. It's funny but you do notice that a lot of them only stop for 1 night, especially if they have kids and no awning.
This summer we were on a site between 2 Cali beaches. Both families with 2 young kids. I don't know how they did it, but I did notice one couple gave up and slept under the stars (this was low 20s at night on the med). Plus they needed to have so much shit outside the vans, it just wouldn't be practical in this country.
It is £60k!!! but you do get most of that back when you sell them so it's more palatable. It is bonkers money though I agree.
I had 3 different VW T3 pop tops including a california, had a T4 california pop top and a LWB T4 Exclusive high top with bathroom. I've hired a T5 Cali too.
Most families buy a camper when they have kids, we sold ours. The kids ruined the whole experience...
With people willing to spend upto £60k on one of these vw vans, I am surprised Audi hasn't released one so people can pay £80k instead.
Mind you this one was a bit small for one and rattled like hell
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7618/17174837521_5199e2eefb_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7618/17174837521_5199e2eefb_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/saFwQi ]Ready[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7620/17146576666_8959e79846_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7620/17146576666_8959e79846_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/s8bFSb ]And the adventures begin[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
And it was damm freezing without the heaters on
Llama, any chance of some pictures of your set up fella?
Twodogs: maybe it's the extra people, where did you prep?
Either on the table - if my OH isn't playing with lego 🙂 or on fridge top. It is a pain to get at the cupboards with the table up....I find myself sliding it back and forth a lot.
For 2 people, t5/6 based campers are a good compromise....small enough to go everywhere ...you just need to be organised (being a bit OCD helps!)
If I had 2 kids as well (or when we get more dogs) I'd get a drive away awning as a playroom.
I've been looking into this for some time now as a possible replacement for my SMax. The conclusion I've come to is that I don't want one configured as a permanent camper as it takes up too much interior space.
I ideally would want a van with a pop top for the kids for short terms/weekend camping duties using fold away camp beds in the main part of the van for the adults, a drive away awning to provide a bit more space for lazing around as there is just zero space inside a T5 camper. For longer camping holidays use the usual big family tent but have all the extra lugging space with the van rather than using roof boxes with the SMax. Then when not camping have the space to carry bikes internally and a lot of people lugging capability.
Still not convinced it's what I want or need.
My daughter uses upstairs as her den, plays up there etc. In winter I have made a flexi pipe that takes hot air from the heater exit up into the roof space, that plus an internal topper makes it really nice and cosy. Leaves all of downstairs free to roam.
But I agree, kids have ruined our campervanning.
alpin - nice choice of beer. The Augustiner Helles is maybe my 2nd favourite beer, after the Edelstof.
We've had a motorhome for over a decade now and while it would be nice to have a smaller van you could almost use as a daily driver and park in normal parking spaces I find them just too small. Our current one has a fixed rear double bed, a big garage (big enough for a motorbike or lots of bicycles) and quite a bit of storage room inside - as well as a decent sided shower etc. We mostly do still use campsites but we also often "wild" camp as well and we're fine for a few days like that (longer if I take the Honda generator with us). Even now it's just the two of us on most trips (the kids being older) I can't really see us ever going to a much smaller van.
It's the local grog.... 😀
Nobeer... If you want any pointers let me know.... There is a lot more going on that you can't see.
for those who have hired... where have you hired from? Is there anywhere recommended nearer to London?
It's the local grog....
Used to be mine too, back when I lived in Munich. Easier to get over in the UK now than it used to be, thankfully.
Cheers Alpin, I'll take you up on that.
No worries.....
OP
We own a '15 VW Cali 180 manual which we bought in January this year. It is our only vehicle.
We've done a mixture of wild and campsite camping both here and abroad. I might add the campsites in Europe are of a higher class (most of the time) and provide more privacy.
At present it's me, the wife and 3 yo daughter although we're close to the arrival of our second. So slightly different circumstances to yourself. Although there's still a requirement to remove the car seat and iso fix base once we arrive as part of setting up.
A few things to consider if they've not already been mentioned. If you don't like camping then a VW Cali may not be for you. It is in essence glamping.
In regards to some of your gripes and concerns some are easily addressed. A lot is about getting into a routine as things need to be done in a certain order to make setting up camp easier and more efficient.
As for the upholstery we bought waterproof covers.
I'll admit it's not as comfy as the 320d touring the Cali replaced to drive but I find it OK. We did 1500 miles this summer from Leeds to the Basque via ferry and back through France for our returning ferry and it was excellent. Again a mixture of wild and campsites. Rather than rain the only problem we faced was escaping from the heat. Thankfully we were at a campsites during the 3 days it was 36 degrees and a pool was very welcoming.
I find the storage to be fine. Overhead locker for toiletries. Wardrobe and under chair drawer for clothes. Cupboard space for cooking, food and toys in our case. Under the seat for less used elements (chocks, levellers, hook up, etc.) Cupboards at the back too.
As for the windscreen blinds we don't use ours and purchased external thermal black out windscreen covers. Great in winter and summer. We also bought a Cali Topper for the roof. We don't always use it (and it has rained without issue) but find it is useful in the colder months and as extra protection from the rain.
Also, we got a great deal on our Cali from VW Commercial dealership (as the T6 had just been released). We were initially looking at the second hand market but the hold their value really well so due to the deal we bought new and part-chopped our car. So a pre-owned one could be an option for you and your family? I personally think that is a big advantage of buying a Cali.
As you've already said your boys loved it. That was also a reason for us. The potential for lots of little adventures. Overnighters, weekends away and longer European roadtrips. We saw the purchase as an investment.
OP - most of your bad points would be addressed by a non-VW conversion and/or looking at accessories that I've found are almost essential for camping. For the roof and front windows, thermal wraps. Takes a few minutes to put on and take off but keeps the van much cooler in summer and warmer in winter and are waterproof. The material on most pop-top roofs I looked at was pretty rubbish.
The space thing is something others have alluded to about the van layout and its something I was seriously worried about when we got ours but we had a fortnight away in August - a week camping and a week in a house and everything went in without a problem: 2 weeks worth of clothes for us two and the kids, big 4-berth awning we use for storage whilst we're there (kids car seats, bikes if we have them etc) and eating in etc, sleeping bags, chairs, beach stuff etc etc. On initial inspection there doesn't seem to be a lot of space especially when you factor in one whole cupboard in our van gets loaded with crockery, cutlery, food, drinks etc but its surprising how much stuff goes in.
Had ours just over 2 years now and can't really fault it. We found that using it day to day became a bit of a faff no matter what people say although a lot of that is my OCD about it and leaving it in car parks etc.
Someone mentioned rose tinted specs... If you get really sh*t weather then yes, its pretty small. We had a weekend in North Wales during July and between midnight on the Friday and midnight on the Saturday it absolutely lashed down. Heaved down. Sea upside down type stuff. Quite frankly it was horrible - 24 hours stuck in the van with a 3 year old and a 6 year old. Made up for it on the Sunday though when the sun came out. With it only being 2 nights away we only had our tarp with us so not much space. Anything over 3/4 nights and we take the big awning.
We'd been talking about getting a VW camper for 17/18 years and we're glad we did it especially with the kids they are they are. We absolutely love it.
Similar sized vans are available from other manufacturers at significantly less cost.