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Anybody seen it on the opening weekend?
Seems to get great reviews. Worth it?
Just seen it.
I'll be honest it doesn't feel at all like a super hero movie- for one thing it is very much devoid of any heroes! To the point where you don't really have any one to root for. It is bleak, gritty and considerably more realistic and believable than the usual comic book stuff. If that is something you might be looking for then it's right up your strasse
Not seen it yet but plan too. Reviews have been a but marmite.
Shermer - it wasn't ever meant to be a superhero movie.
I can't wait to see it.
It's the first time I've watched an origin story and came away thinking 'that could actually happen'. The price for all that plausibility is all the thrills and wise cracks that you'd get with a Marvel movie. I was moved by it, but definitely at the unsettling and thought provoking end of things. I was very surprised when I found out that it was the same director as The Hangover!!
Shermer – it wasn’t ever meant to be a superhero movie.
I can’t wait to see it.
Super villain movie then?
Just got back - posted in the 'movies' thread. I absolutely loved it. Was not expecting anything like a superhero film and didn't get one. Really surprised it's been so popular actually, as it's like a very dark, indie film, a character study and a disturbing one at that. There are no laughs, except 'that's awkward' type ones. It's packing cinemas and that's pretty incredible for such a disturbing film with not a lot of action (and thank the lord, no CGI!).
In a word yes, stunningly intense and brooding movie.
Oh, sounds like one for me then - worthy of a cinema rather than waiting for it to be available at home?
Definitely see it at the cinema!
Other thing that I just remembered- I wonder who gets royalties for the use of Gary Glitter’s music!? Mind boggling! 😁
Watched it on Friday and thought it thoroughly lived up to the hype, it leaves quite a bit too the imagination and definitely left it's mark on me, still discussing what we think happened with the Mrs today.
Great performance. Let down by the script. To answer the question - no it doesn't.
The price for all that plausibility is all the thrills and wise cracks that you’d get with a Marvel movie.
Going by DCs previous output they could do worse than just handing it to Marvel.
People have been walking out, expecting the usual 'theme park' cinema of a superhero movie (Scorcese's words not mine) and getting an actual film. Yay the revolution! Maybe I will break my No ****ing Blokes In Tights rule and see this one then.
Superb film. Best movie I've seen in years.
Superb film. Best movie I’ve seen in years.
Exactly my thoughts. Cinema was full of teenage boys - not sure it was what they were expecting/wanted, but I thought it was ace. Not as violent as the reports led me to believe either.
Will Gompertz review on the BBC site was really interesting. Suggesting it was pushing the 15 certificate as well, definitely not one for little super hero fans
The 15 cert is pretty open
The BBFC permits the following within the bounds of the 15 certificate:
Theme: No theme is prohibited, provided the treatment is appropriate to 15 year olds.
Language: There may be frequent use of strong language; the strongest terms are only rarely acceptable. Continued aggressive use of strong language and sexual abuse is unacceptable.
Nudity: There are no constraints on nudity in a non-sexual or educational context.
Sex: Sexual activity and nudity may be portrayed but without strong detail. The depiction of casual sex should be handled responsibly. There may be occasional strong verbal references to sexual behaviour.
Violence: Violence may be strong but may not dwell on the infliction of pain, and of injuries. Scenes of sexual violence must be discreet and brief.
Imitable techniques: Dangerous combat techniques such as ear claps, head-butts and blows to the neck are unlikely to be acceptable. There may be no emphasis on the use of easily accessible lethal weapons (in particular, knives).
Horror: Sustained or detailed infliction of pain or injury is unacceptable.
Drugs: Drug taking may be shown but clear instructive detail is unacceptable. The film as a whole must not promote or encourage drug use.
I warned my son, who's 17, that it was more psychological than superhero beforehand. Joked that it would help with his Psychology A'level... I didn't expect it to be quite so disturbing though. He thought it was a good film and said some clever things about it afterward (that I can't remember the correct wording of, so won't embarrass myself by trying!). Should be an 18 really though, I wouldn't have felt right with him seeing that at 15.
As an R rating these days is mostly concerned with detailed violence detailed drug taking, issues about consent and injury through sex, you really have to work hard to get a film tipped over from a 15 to anything higher. Surprisingly, most of what we would consider Horror movies are 15 rated.
A fun game for all the family is spot the R rated scenes in Deadpool
excellent - needs the big screen.
Cinema was full of teenage boys
incels ??
I don't think we have "R" ratings over here, do we?
Just followed a link about something else, and found that Joker is causing quite a stir in the US, what with possible [url= https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/09/27/joker-movie-movie-theater-mass-shooting-threat/ ]mass shooting threat[/url] , etc...
And Josh Brolin has done a cool Insta post
I don’t think we have “R” ratings over here, do we?
Sorry, yes, 18, the trials of living with a Canadian...
I've heard all the stuff about Incels and so on, Partner is in Toronto currently, and she said the cinema complex has cops frisking the audience going into to screenings of Joker.
I saw it on Saturday, with my wife who would never go to a "superhero film" which this definitely isn't. I enjoyed it, if enjoy is the right word most of the film is pretty unsettling.
I wouldn't rate it as the best film i'd seen in ages but its a solid four stars. Joaquin Phoenix's performance is extraordinary and the setting - Gotham as a kind of horrible early eighties New York works really well too.
Todd Phillips seems to be borrowing a bit from Martin Scorcese but if you're going to copy someone then I guess Scorcese isn't a bad place to start.
I saw it Saturday as a last minute something to do with the wife, didnt have any expectations, it was okay, as mentioned above kinda dark and actually a good origins story, also that you didnt know who to root for throughout made it slightly more interesting.
But that is my issue with it, DC in the last few years had a joker in suicide squad and there is sequel planned without this joker, this just appears to be a one off film so hard to rally behind I find. Trying to forget Heath Ledgers joker was quite tough too, although seemed like some scenes were a nod to Heaths joker IMO.
Super villain movie then?
Not really. He's far from a super-villain in this.
Cinema was full of teenage boys
Will be interesting to see how it does - it's not a comic book movie in any conventional sense and all the better for it.
It is violent - not in the 'continuous blood and guts' sense but where there is violence it's cold, hard and shocking. I'm not convinced it's going to see people rioting in the streets (could that be film company PR hype?)
Looks stunning, well acted, great score. Definitely cinematic.
Spoiler alert...
Just followed a link about something else, and found that Joker is causing quite a stir in the US, what with possible mass shooting threat , etc…
Hopefully it will cause a reaction of the scale of 'mee-too' where people realise that the way society acts does an awful lot towards forming these dissassocated characters.
It wasn't him that orchestrated the abuse as a kid, the muggings from the kids on the street, the ridicule and failed mugging from the jerks in the tube, the orchestrated public humiliation from Robert De Niro, that turned him into what he eventually became.
'Reap what you Sow' on a societal level.
Saw it last night. Simply stunning. Way, way darker and more off the wall than I anticipated. As Will Gompertz said in his review, it's an art house film that's tricked it's way onto the big hollywood scene.
Visually it's absolutely stunning. The sets, the street scenes, the camera work. It's all fantastic. Tonally I think it fits in perfectly with Nolan's films.
I loved how they managed to tie in "batman" to the whole thing.
The violence wasn't actually as bad as the wet blanket reviews were whining about. If anything, the most horrifically violent moment isn't actually shown on screen. You know it's happened, you just never see it.
Phoenix is of course fantastic. the physical performance is mind blowing.
Semi-spoiler-ish, so hidden 🙂
the orchestrated public humiliation from Robert De Niro
That bit really reminded me of the X Factor a few years back, when they used to make semi-celebs out of the really useless, deluded ones. Luckily that seems to have stopped (although I do avoid X Factor and it's ilk like the plague these days)
And ^^ nicely put, BoardingBob.
Just back from watching it. BoardinBob nailed it:
Simply stunning. Way, way darker and more off the wall than I anticipated. As Will Gompertz said in his review, it’s an art house film that’s tricked it’s way onto the big hollywood scene.
Visually it’s absolutely stunning. The sets, the street scenes, the camera work. It’s all fantastic. Tonally I think it fits in perfectly with Nolan’s films.
I loved how they managed to tie in “batman” to the whole thing.
The violence wasn’t actually as bad as the wet blanket reviews were whining about. If anything, the most horrifically violent moment isn’t actually shown on screen. You know it’s happened, you just never see it.
Phoenix is of course fantastic. the physical performance is mind blowing.
Not once in the film did I think that any of it had been overdone, dramatised, over CGI'd (some of the background is CGI, it has to be) or had violence for violence's sake. Glad I went to see it on the big screen, can't imagine it has anywhere near as much impact watching it at home. I might have to re-watch the Nolan Batman films sometime soon!
I might have to re-watch the Nolan Batman films sometime soon!
Watched the first 2 when I got home and the last one tonight.
Heath's Joker didn't seem so exceptional afterwards though...
Just been to see it.
Lots of positives - the performances, the cinematography, the editing and the score.
Love the idea of it being closer to something indie; perhaps even French in its tone - but placed on the canvas of a blockbuster. That's a smart trick.
I didn't quite think it was the sum of its parts though. Many brilliant moments and a satisfying climax couldn't quite save the disjointed nature of it for me. The story didn't particularly flow even though the character's journey was entirely convincing.
I also thought it didn't quite pull off the real-world versus the comic book world particularly well (Arkham hospital looking like a typical CGI exterior from the regular DC stuff - didn't blend here.) Christopher Nolan is a master at this. He fits the stories into a solid reality.
Actually it needs an extra bit of appreciation though for making a story out of what should be an impossible character to relate to.
I liked the commentary on capitalism too. Plenty to go at.
As above a solid four stars from me.
(The soundtrack was really was amazing BTW.)
Just back too. Also came away talking about the soundtrack!
Worth every ounce of hype imo!!! Phenomenal.
The soundtrack was really was amazing BTW
Didn't realise they'd used a Gary Glitter song till I saw some outrage online!
You should've read [url= https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/joker-does-it-deserve-the-hype/#post-10850028 ]this[/url] thread 😉
Just back from watching it.
It's basically a re-make of 'The Pursuit of Happyness' from 2006.
Saw it on Sunday and thought it was great. Soundtrack was really good too - had not long finished reading about Ginger Baker's death before White Room came on during the film which was a weird coincidence.
It’s basically a re-make of ‘The Pursuit of Happyness’ from 2006.
???
The Pursuit of Happyness
"Based on a true story about a man named Christopher Gardner. Gardner has invested heavily in a device known as a "bone density scanner". He feels like he has it made selling these devices. However, they do not sell well as they are marginally better than x-ray at a much higher price. As Gardner works to make ends meet, his wife leaves him and he loses his apartment. Forced to live out in the streets with his son, Gardner continues to sell bone density scanners while concurrently taking on an unpaid internship as a stockbroker, with slim chances for advancement to a paid position. Before he can receive pay, he needs to outshine the competition through 6 months of training, and to sell his devices to stay afloat."
Christ yeah! Why didn't anyone else spot that!? 😆
Just back from seeing it. Very impressed. Joacquin Phoenix is superb and his "bulking down" quite notable given his "bulking up" from You Were Never Really Here.
As others have said. Definitely not a super hero film (indeed no heroes of any sort at any stage). The Scorsese references are done well, particularly that to King Of Comedy.
And for those who have seen Pursuit Of Happyness, did you figure out who makes an appearance in the last scene?
And for those who have seen Pursuit Of Happyness, did you figure out who makes an appearance in the last scene?
Was it the guy who does the voice of Homer Simpson?
By far the best film Ive seen in years (not a massive cinema goer, but do at least try and see most of the stuff hyped for oscars). Agree with the reviews saying its an indie movie character study with propper hollywood tallent backing it up.
Very well shot, some interesting decisions made behind the camera by the DoP/oppperators, i dont think anything outside the tv studio was shot with a tripod by the looks of it, despite a few scenes feeling like they would have been better suited to it (the refrigerator scene for example).
The violence wasn’t actually as bad as the wet blanket reviews were whining about. If anything, the most horrifically violent moment isn’t actually shown on screen. You know it’s happened, you just never see it.
I did wonder what was cut to make it a 15, its a very technical 15, in that a lot worse is implied than is actually shown (remember the infamous chip fryer scene in the first series of spooks?). Where we've got used to horror and torture porn getting an 18, not always for the violence just they flash a bit of boob and thats the certificate sorted.
Did see people walking out with kids (11-13 ish?) after the bloodiest scene. I wouldnt say it was a frightening or disturbing film, I think it requires a degree of maturity to understand it, kids would probably just shrug it off and not understand it (kids play GTA which is just as violent in a domestic setting without the background to contextualize it). Im not sure 15yr old me would have 'got' it. Infact im not sure late 20s me would have got it prior to being made redundant and feeling the utter missery of repeated rejections or worse just being ignored.
First film in a very long time I've had the desire to go and see again so soon after first viewing.
Just gotta find someone to go with!
I wasn’t sure what to expect, but was still surprised and really enjoyed it.
Didn’t find myself comparing this Joker to Heath Ledger’s, so much as noting how much character progression must take place to catch up with Ledger’s chaos-obsessed Joker.
Has the film ratings system softened? Would have made it an 18 myself
I wouldnt say it was a frightening or disturbing film,
not frightening, no, but definitely disturbing. His laughter when disturbed, especially when he was on stage, the comment in his journal about mental illness and the way he ran as if he wasn't really in control of his body were all things I was really uncomfortable with. More so than any film I can remember. Incredible performance by Phoenix. I'm sure I'll want to see it again, just not right now.
Has the film ratings system softened? Would have made it an 18 myself
There's an incentive to make films a high rating, is a horror film even worth seeing if its not an 18? Probably, most would be 12/15 but as long as you show some nipples you've got your 18 cert, nothing to do with the horror part.
18 would probably need 'that' scene to be more graphic, and a softcore wet dream.
Went with the wife last night to see Joker, and yes, it is fantastic. It's no superhero film and that's what makes it great. Reminded me of (and I'm sure this was the point) of the films of the late 70's, from the old Warner Brothers logo to the aspect ratio.
Just a shame that the media keeps poking for a mass shooting so they can blame the film
2nd viewing last night. It’s up there with my favourite films - definitely a favourite performance from Phoenix. Utterly mesmerising.
I haven't watched it, but friend of mine said that this film will make you think differently about Joker. Well, I think will watch it next week.
Can’t stand superhero films. Took nephew to watch this yesterday. I enjoyed it. Didn’t need any of the batman connotations, nor the Gotham setting really. Could just be post Brexit apocalypse with haves and have nots 🙂
Darker than many, more a descent into mental instability film. Some excellent scenes, perhaps a little over acted. De Niro was very good.
I expected large amounts of gratuitous sadism, but you only get so much for a 15 and the film was the better for it.
will [hopefully] make [people] think differently about [how they treat others]
Yes
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48885402086_a571139825_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48885402086_a571139825_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2htQsU7 ]boris[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/140397021@N03/ ]michaelwex10[/url], on Flickr
I thought 15 was about right. Few F words. Violence in context. No more graphical than a computer game. My nephew is 16 and plays games. If your just-15 is not used to seeing shooter computer games then may be worth a miss
Just got back. Hmmmm I guess I’m in a minority but I just thought it was a bit dull. Sure he’s clearly an amazing actor when it comes to playing psychopaths, and it was beautifully filmed, but still an hour too long for me I’m afraid....sorry!
Just got back. Hmmmm I guess I’m in a minority but I just thought it was a bit dull. Sure he’s clearly an amazing actor when it comes to playing psychopaths, and it was beautifully filmed, but still an hour too long for me I’m afraid….sorry!
Saw it tonight, I'm no film critic & just want to be entertained. Good part played by Phoenix but I also found it very dull & could've slept through it. I must have found it less dull than two people who walked out halfway through though.
I thought 15 was about right. Few F words. Violence in context. No more graphical than a computer game.
Bizarre that that’s what you came away thinking of the level of content.
I guess some folk don’t look any deeper than the images they see onscreen.
I guess some folk don’t look any deeper than the images they see onscreen.
I guess some people can't. Including me. 🙁
It’s fair enough - its why we all like different things eh?
Not quite De, just that above that age the material on mental stability would be age appropriate. I thought the hardest scene had no violence whatsoever, personally.
One of the few films I've seen recently that I thought finished too soon, I was a bit disappointed the final act didn't go on 20 mins longer, or maybe the build up/payoff ratio wasn't quite right. Up until the point he becomes the joker it's extremely bleak but the acting is mesmerising and its beautifully filmed.
The violence isn't particularly over the top, seemingly much to the disappointment of the teenage boys sitting across from me who spent most of the film being irritating, it should have been an 18 just to keep the children out.
Well the bloke and his girlfriend who were sat next to me stank of skunk, and spent almost the whole film demolishing 4 large bags of kettle chip/ Dorito type things! 😡
Just back, thought it was fantastic. Don't know if it was De Niro being in the film but I can't think of a more convincingly disturbing character since Max Cady. Not perfect but nigh on, thought the chat show scene was a bit stilted and the Gotham tension building could have been developed a bit better. But I'm being picky. I'd love to see a Batman in the same style. Fwiw I thought this was closer to comic book/ graphic novel style than the Marvel stuff even though folks are saying it's not a superhero film.
I’d love to see a Batman in the same .
Would it work though?
Not my quote but funny...
Batman: I must save this city
Alfred: well you're a multi billionaire so maybe you should redist-
Batman: This bat suit is the only way!
Definitely a lot of darker material out there than has been seen in the cinema. Quite how they would do it I'm not sure but it's be good to see a grittier Batman.
I’m going to have to go against consensus I’m afraid. It was okay, well shot, great cinematography and Phoenix’s performance was brilliant. The thing is, for me, it didn’t need to be the Joker. If anything it would’ve been a better film without the DC connection.
Would’ve worked better in my opinion if it was just about some guy. I can’t remove the Batman connection with it being set in Gotham and including the Wayne family. With that in place it just doesn’t work. The character isn’t clever, cunning or chaotic enough. If it was just a character study centred around a man slowly tipping over the edge it would’ve been all the better for it.
Not sure where all the talk of violence comes from either. A couple of mildly violent scenes that don’t show much detail. A solid film with a great central character, a pretty poor predictable, cliched plot and towards the end he just started sounding like Michael Jackson in my mind.
And for those who have seen Pursuit Of Happyness, did you figure out who makes an appearance in the last scene?
I must have missed something, I'll need that explaining
I thought it was great, horribly painful in places (and I'm asking myself why that's enjoyable as I write) but this -
The thing is, for me, it didn’t need to be the Joker. If anything it would’ve been a better film without the DC connection.
Would’ve worked better in my opinion if it was just about some guy.
.... is absolutely spot on.
I thought the same funkmaster, would've worked without the obvious and slightly forced comic book slant to it. Agree with DezB as well though, its an amazingly mesmerising performance by Pheonix
Watched it last night and loved it. I love the dark gritty psychological aspect of it and Phoenix portrayed the part brilliantly. It was painful to see how he suffered (the character) and I'm hoping there's more to follow like this. I'm not a fan of the old Batman films, too tongue in cheek, I prefer realism and this had it in bucket loads. Superb film.
Finally seen it today (hate going to a busy cinema).
I get the comments about it not necessarily needing to be a DC film, but the connections and nods (loved the 'batpole' but I was the only person there today laughing out loud at that) to the DC universe made it more compelling, not less, for me. Happy they signposted
Still making me think a few hours later - both specific details and deeper stuff -
This and Logan point to a potential different direction for comic-based films that I would be glad to see.
Phoenix's performance is astonishing - in every (I think) scene and carries the entire film on his weird looking shoulders. Can't think of (m)any other current actors who could have made this work as well.
Torn on the fact that this is a standalone. Kind of like that it's just what it is, but also curious to see the character develop further and come into conflict with an equally 'real' caped crusader.
I've hung back on this thread till now.
Phoenix, incredible performance
Film itself average.
It wont get an oscar.
Finally got round to seeing it last night. Wasn't entirely sure what to expect, but went with an open mind & was really disappointed.
Phoenix was great, but at times it felt like filler & perving over his body - hey everyone, look how much weight he's lost, isn't it amazing... & the cinematography was impressive, it looked stunning.
From now on are potential spoilers (hopefully hidden in the tags, but don't say I didn't warn you...
It went on too long & the perfect place to end it for me would've been after he shot the TV guy & stared in the camera & it went to the test card, the bolting on of the Batman origin story wasn't needed.
Finally is he even the Joker? or is his character merely historical inspiration for him?
I also thought it was dull and overly long. There’s no denying the quality of the acting from Phoenix but the film just didn’t get interesting quickly enough. If I’d gone on my own I doubt I would have made it to the end.
Loved it. Odd, at the midpoint it did feel a bit long. However, by the end I just wanted more. It was great in every respect - I don't think it was meant to flow nicely, as this was character developments and flaws, so all the disjointed parts for me worked really well. My wife thought it was utterly brilliant.
The thing is, for me, it didn’t need to be the Joker. If anything it would’ve been a better film without the DC connection.
Would’ve worked better in my opinion if it was just about some guy.
Nobody would have gone to see it then. It would just be another bleak, disturbing film starring Phoenix. A pointless Pointless question in a few years.
Just been to see Joker , brilliant performance from Joaquin Phoenix .
Finally having started the thread we saw it this week. I thought it definitely lived up to the hype. His descent into the Joker and the role that society played was really well done. My only criticism would be that I would liked to have spent more time on screen with the confident, witty final character that appeared on Mur-RAY's talk show. The build up could have been quicker, or the film 20 minutes longer to make more of the final character, particularly since it looks likely to be a one-off. Just a brilliant film.
My only criticism would be that I would liked to have spent more time on screen with the confident, witty final character that appeared on Mur-RAY’s talk show
Its left the door open for another film , its the first time in years ive seen an audience give a round of applause at the end if a film .
No