You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Had an interview for a warehouse position at a larger chain discount homeware store.
Don't really want to leave where i am but my hours are restricted and inflation has dented my existing plans.
So, its a simple job 39hr a week paid, split over earlies and lates. At N M W, which as one of lifes underachievers is probably all im worth ( on paper)
Now, the issues i have are the following. You will be expected to stay after your shift ends at 20.15hrs to unload that days late delivery. The hgv is booked between 20.00 and 21.00, and it can take up to 1hr to unload to warehouse, lock up and leave.
This is unpaid and you do not get the hours back, ie start 90 mins later on your next shift if held back.
Plus, you could be rota'd on early shift for a 0715 start.
So by not paying you for roughly 10% of your day the actual hourly rate is well below nmw.
There is no way to get a 11 hr break between shifts, by the time you get home, eat, relax for an hr its midnight, then up at 0600 to get ready for work.
Its no wonder they can't get people in,plus, more importantly, the staff i interacted with were not exactly selling the joy of working there which will also be reflected in their customer interactions and level of service.
I bet the CEO or BDMs would not stand outside in the rain in January at 2115 getting soaked through and not be renumerated for their efforts. Maybe im old and fuddy duddy but to my mind that's no way to run a business, different if your salaried and the pay is sensible, and you know when you start the lay of the land so you can balance pay v lifestyl and decide if your ok with that.
Neeless to say I ended the interview at that juncture . Yes I need more pay, but basically being a slave for a good few hours a week, no thanks. Plus no overtime rate for Bank Holidays , 25 days holiday, including bank Holidays.
Thinking a letter to the ceo might be constructive.. Or do you think he knows, doesn't care and the minions are lucky to be employed, and should be grateful to have a job at all.
The CEO knows, but won't admit it so just move on.
IMO we'll see more of this - folk voted for laissez faire, and they're getting it.
I can't imagine how that is even legal, never mind moral.
Think I'd get some facts about legality and then write to the CEO/papers/forums/governing body*
*as appropriate, if you can be bothered.
I’m surprised they told you about all the free hours you’ll be doing tbh.
I imagine they have the attitude of ‘bloody snowflakes, no one wants to work!’
You may get further reporting under NMW and other employment issues to HMRC and ACAS - iirc there's a whistleblower phone line.
Don’t think I’d bother with the CEO. I would however quite happily send something to the HR Director at the same time as reporting the company to HMRC: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/digital-forms/open/form/pay-and-work-rights-complaint/draft/start#1
Thinking a letter to the ceo might be constructive.. Or do you think he knows, doesn’t care
This is one of those totally weird posts ( like when I posted that my kid had been attacked by three dogs, what should I do?)
NO, don't contact the CEO, contact the relevant authority which deals with criminal breaches of the minimum wage legislation.
Please, please contact them and give them exact details.
IMO we’ll see more of this – folk voted for laissez faire, and they’re getting it.
Wait til Rees Mogg gets his EU Law bonfire, you'll be lucky to get paid.
This is why we have a staffing issue in this country, why there are so many vacances. Its because companies have basically been allowed to take the piss due to an increasing lack of interest in workers rights from government over the last decade and workers are rightly turning down 'opportunities' which are nothing more than servitude. Just look at the exponential wage gap between senior management and shop floor - its the largest anywhere in the western world (I think but needs citation) - what ever its much higher than most countries. This is a zero sum game - more money for directors and CEO's means much much less for workers.
its the largest anywhere in the western world (I think but needs citation) – what ever its much higher than most countries.
Except the USA, they're way ahead of us - but it is the direction we've been heading for years now.
The only bit that suprises me is that they were so upfront about it…
Thinking a letter to the ceo might be constructive.. Or do you think he knows, doesn’t care and the minions are lucky to be employed, and should be grateful to have a job at all.
These policies don't happen by accident. The CEO probably got bonuses for managing to coerce people into working extra for free. Why would he care about some rando who doesn't want to work for him.
You don't work there, it's not your concern, if it were me I'd walk away and get on with my life.
If you want to "do the right thing" then (you're a better man than I and) whistleblow to HMRC or whoever, there's nothing to be gained by any party from you contacting [anyone] within that business.
Now, the issues i have are the following. You will be expected to stay after your shift ends at 20.15hrs to unload that days late delivery. The hgv is booked between 20.00 and 21.00, and it can take up to 1hr to unload to warehouse, lock up and leave.
This is unpaid and you do not get the hours back, ie start 90 mins later on your next shift if held back.
Plus, you could be rota’d on early shift for a 0715 start.
That's downright illegal. Compare that to Aldi who pay their warehouse workers over over £13/hr and you can see how anyone would not accept the conditions you're being asked to.
EDIT: They're also breaking the law on holiday entitlement:
A full-time employee is entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks (28 days) of paid annual leave. This includes the 8 UK bank holidays. Employers can choose to offer more than the legal minimum if they wish.
The country really is in a 'back to the mills' situation.....
Every job I've ever had on salary it's been expected that I work additional hours for free, travel, overtime or work weekends. But none of those were on NMW.
I once turned down a very well paid job for a national sports retailer (not that one!), Because the interviewer was, although well paid, blatantly unhappy with his working conditions and was open enough to mention a few things I wouldn't have been prepared to do. Had to go back to the agency the job was advertised with as say that the company did a terrible job of selling the job to me.
Starting to see more B Corps popping up. They get my money where there is a choice.
I guess the org the OP references aren’t fussed. Here’s hoping their business fails due to lack of investment in people, but yeah, Tories…
The only bit that suprises me is that they were so upfront about it…
Me to, I can't believe anyone would take the job after being informed of those job requirements. It's not exactly illegal to be not paid for overtime (it should be ). But is illegal to not be paid the minimum wage for the accumulated hours worked, something the OP mentioned. I would write to the CEO amongst others. This whole policy might be the result of one rouge manager and not known to head office.
https://www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights
You don’t work there, it’s not your concern, if it were me I’d walk away and get on with my life.
I’m with Cougar on this, why stress about something that’s nothing to do with you.
Every job I’ve ever had on salary it’s been expected that I work additional hours for free, travel, overtime
As reported recently, me and most of my Sales colleagues are being forced into higher targets we can’t achieve therefore reducing our commission component of our pay. Choice is to leave or hope underperformance won’t lead to “redundancies” next year. We won’t be the only ones in the UK.
It's nothing new. I remember working a few shifts a week in a pub when I was 18. We got paid until 11pm (last orders back then) but were still expected to clean up and clear out the customers. Never left before 11.30.
EDIT: They’re also breaking the law on holiday entitlement:
I took that to mean they are offering 25+bank hols, but given the rest of what they get up to, maybe no
I’m with Cougar on this, why stress about something that’s nothing to do with you.
if only everyone did this we would see conditions improve ? ……. Oh wait no the other one.
I see your point but I certainly wouldn’t get stressed about phoning the whistleblowers line. I think I’d find it quite cathartic - if enough people did it - it would be investigated
Its because no one says anything that they are able to get away with it.
The warehouse team leader was very upfront about the situation, I pushed on the point as I couldn't believe that was expected.
I was warned its a bit of a low end place. But that's not the point, Im not stressed over it, just dont think that bad business practice should go unchallenged.
Its because no one says anything that they are able to get away with it.
I'm happy to do it with my own employer, in fact I just did this yesterday. But another company I don't work for I wouldn't be doing unless I decided I wanted to be a Union Rep for that very purpose.
I d put your efforts into getting a better job. Be thankful you dodged a bullet by avoiding this one.
Good luck in job search.
Stick your findings on Glassdoor for other prospective employees
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/index.htm
Extracting the urine.
But besides a one-off contact to a body that might chase up this awful practice, I doubt I'd have the mental energy to do more, especially if I was still searching for a new job.
I took that to mean they are offering 25+bank hols, but given the rest of what they get up to, maybe no
The OP specifically said:
Plus no overtime rate for Bank Holidays , 25 days holiday, including bank Holidays.
so that would be 17 days holiday plus Bank Holidays. It makes the moaners at my job look even more pathetic than they are (we get 25 days of holiday, three which must be used for the xmas shutdown. Plus no weekend working, every Bank Holiday off and 1.6x our hourly rate for any overtime worked out on a daily rate, anything over 8hrs is overtime. We also had early finishes without penalty until last month so you could easily work a 36hr week but still get 2-3 hours of overtime!).
I'm amazed they have any staff to start with.
We need staff and we can't get any, offering £12 hour, 8-5 Mon to Thurs, 8-1 Fri, full time perm contract, great place to work.
Where you based @singletrackmind ?
I’m happy to do it with my own employer, in fact I just did this yesterday. But another company I don’t work for I wouldn’t be doing unless I decided I wanted to be a Union Rep for that very purpose.
I don't get it.
What do you have to lose by taking 5 minutes out your day and maybe making someone else's life a bit better?
Nothing you can do about it other than taking a stand if you work for them.
A common practice in the far east where employers would squeeze the employees for every ounce of their sweat until they are dry. Happened to me many years ago and many times while working in the far east. The culture and expectation from some of employers there would be to squeeze employees to work for free. The mentality is that either you work or you walk.
le
prochainesemaine prochaine
Généralement les ajectifs suivent le verbe....
Il exist beaucoup d'exceptions.
Agreed, stw leans to left and is Labour biased, but a thread concerning employment rights for the masses gets the gallic shrug.
The ceo of that business is probably on £150k, plus all the perks associated with the role.
Im not very political or some bastion of workers rights but I know when im having my pants pulled down, and a potential average of say 6hrs a week gratis or 280hrs a year means you have done over 7 weeks worth of hrs per annum unpaid.
South coast based, so Hampshire for employment opportunities really, although West Sussexshire is also an option.
Call HMRC ask them to do an audit - this "arrangement" takes employees below NMW.
This is a stark glimpse at unfettered capitalism’s logical end game; neofeudalism. People with assets exploit those without.
Prepare to serf.
This is a stark glimpse at unfettered capitalism’s logical end game; neofeudalism. People with assets exploit those without.
Prepare to serf.
People don't get rich by being nice as the saying goes in the far east.
I can’t imagine how that is even legal, never mind moral.
It definitely not legal, and the NMW team at HMRC might like a high profile name to use for headlines.....
Hey @singletrackmind, I read
At N M W, which as one of lifes underachievers is probably all im worth ( on paper)
I'm sorry to read you feel like this. I met you back in 2009 on brewery tour / bike ride, and you appeared anything other than. Engaging while conducted the tour and clearly very talented at what you were doing back then.
What you were offered during this i/v is outrageous. I'm glad you have walked away from it and I hope and believe you should find something much, much better. Anna.
Report it and try to contribute to them not taking the piss with other people who have to take the job.
That is exactly correct (Marin) - you are lucky you don't have to take the job, others will not be so fortunate
South coast based, so Hampshire for employment opportunities really, although West Sussexshire is also an option.
The job’s not in one of the new “free ports” is it?
I agree with reporting them to HMRC either way. I always wonder why the coyness about naming companies in a situation like this. Daylight is a great disinfectant.
I’m glad the OP was able to walk away and will do the right thing about follow up
I really hope the inability to fill jobs leads to better pay and conditions. Although sadly conditions seems less susceptible to market forces than pay
PS i didn’t click in this better as I assumed the CEO had interviewed you then asked how he did
Report them and name them on here. Then sit back and see what happens. This sort of behaviour infuriates me. Absolute bastards attempting to take advantage of people who, in the main, are in no position to fight back.
Done some digging.
Owner is a Billionaire throbber who uses his wife as a Channel Islands domicile to avoid paying the correct tax.
Wont be naming on here , but will be phoning the ACAS dob them in hotline. I dont care if its 1 branch under 1 team leader or the entire group. Its not fair to abuse peoples need for paying jobs in the current inflationary climate in this way. If you do the work you expect to be paid for that work, not with this lot.
I'm lucky, I can maintain the status quo for a few years , but would like to get back to full time employment sooner rather than later . Either within Kingfisher group , who are a revelation compared to these robbing shysters, or another opportunity elsewhere. Being 53, with no relevant qualifications is limiting though hence nmw work
Nice work if more people stood up we would be in a much better place, I used to work in retail and was always expected on Christmas Eve at the close of business to put in all the Sales point of sale for Boxing Day, the CEO is probably fully aware of this working practice.
Forget NMW, at 53 think about all your other transferable skills that you have aquired over many years decent employers are willing to pay for these skills.
Good luck something will turn up.
It definitely not legal, and the NMW team at HMRC might like a high profile name to use for headlines…
They might, but a quick Google throws up that only 6 firms nationally have been prosecuted for NMW violations and only 1 publicly named so the odds seem against it. This info may be a bit out of date - I don't know if there's been a recent flurry of prosecutions post Brexit to help protect worker's rights.
What we don’t know is how many companies adjusted their working practices to make them legal
Wont be naming on here
Why on earth not? What have you got to lose?
Please name and shame the company.
I want to choose to try my hardest to not spend any of my money with companies with that sort of behaviour.
And it's driven from the top. With support from this complicit Gov that chooses to erode and erode more and more rights for the benefit of the super rich. That's why that want to effectively band striking by doctors, nurses, railway staff etc - they despise the lower orders trying to have representation.
(And yet nearly half the voting opulation chose to elect them again and again over the past 12 years).
Also, my son works for Home Bargains, so if it's them I want to do what I can to protect him.
Ok
Being as blatantly cryptic as possible
If I was going to practise with my rifle I might go to................, as its safer
Home, home on the..... Where the deer and the antelope play.
Bisley firing ......
The local butcher has a huge....., of different sausages
School? 😉
School
gRange Hill?
The Lone RANGEr?
Stick all the details on there FB page if they have one, save someone else wasting time at the interview, you can all spends days arguing on here over gammons, Brexit, wood burners, use social media time more constructively!
The Range
The owner reversed his Ferrari into an associates old mk2 landy. There was considerably more damage to the Ferrari..
Thanks for naming. They deserve a metric shit tonne of bad press for this. This kind of behaviour should be called out. Can’t pay your staff? Then your business model isn’t viable or people up the chain need to earn a bit less to redress the balance.
If I had any social channels other than this I’d be on them naming and shaming.
If they're giving you the hours back then it's pretty common.
you do not get the hours back
They’re not.
This is unpaid and you do not get the hours back, ie start 90 mins later on your next shift if held back.
This is a pisstake.
OP - the agency that investigates dogshit employers paying less than minimum wage is HMRC. There is a complaint form below. It won't take long to complete it. You don't need to make a big production or petition out of it - just the bare facts are enough.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints
Range Against The Machine
Range Against The Machine 2; the Aga strikes back?
They might, but a quick Google throws up that only 6 firms nationally have been prosecuted for NMW violations and only 1 publicly named so the odds seem against it.
I can assure you hundreds of employers/thousands of staff get dealt with by HMRC national minimum wage teams each year.
They don't publicise how many people get their VAT returns "corrected" each year either, but that doesn't mean the work isn't being done. How much time, scarce resources and public money is it worth spending to prosecute every one?
Owner is a Billionaire throbber who uses his wife as a Channel Islands domicile to avoid paying the correct tax.
Ah, was going to suggest a nice note to them outlining that you were extremely interested in the role but the expectation for unpaid work put you off. If the above is true though, I suspect he'd have treated you like something he'd stepped in regardless of whether you told him where to shove his job or sucked it up and got on with it.
Given the owner used sharp practices to get ex MFI stock from the administrators for next to nothing and didnt repay the covid business rates relief unlike other traders, i doubt he'd be concerned.
Update.
Phoned ACAS helpline. Sensible head lady listened, confirmed that was a breach of nmw regulations.
They dont do enforcement but HMRC do so fill in Web page linked to above.
Which i have now done, willing to leave contact details so we shall see if any follow up
Spoke to my Branch Manager yesterday and hes finally agreed to put me on the supervisor training course. Its a route to better hourly pay, and more hours as you become a key holder. The reason he didn't do it sooner... Because he didn't know how to fill in the new forms. They're all out there.
Good news!
"he didn’t know how to fill in the new forms" obviously promoted to his level of incompetence.
He doesn't believe we have landed on the moon, or we put an electric buggy on Mars and it sent back pictures, these are not real, but fake news by Americans to prove that they are better than the Russians.
You'd think, really, that the Russians might have had something to say about that over last half a century or so.
He doesn’t believe we have landed on the moon
It's true in my case.
I've never been either.
Did go to the range once, boycotting it won't be a chore. It was a bit like a cross between B&M and what Homebase has become (a load of useless tat and a paint isle) but with isles so narrow you had to fight your way though the leopard print throws to get to the plastic chandeliers.