Have we discussed this?
At the risk of falling in with the hard of thinking, I can't help but think he's the victim of a pile-on.
The Comedy Special came out a little while ago, I think a decent amount of us here watched it and yeah, it's dark, very dark humour, but I get the impression, like the Dave Chappelle controversy a few months earlier, the vast majority of people who've taken such deep offence, a) haven't watch it in full, so don't have the benefit of context, b) had no interest in him whatsoever, until they found out of about in the media.
You've not give a reason why it's an acceptable joke to perform in public.
Just moaned about those that find it offensive.
The problem is that a lot of people thought it was funny that he said that one of the positives of the holocaust was that Gypsies were murdered by the Nazis.
Now, to give Carr the massive benefit of the doubt we could say he was trying to highlight that today a lot of people think it is totally fine to be racist and prejudiced against Gypsies, and that they are racists, and yes he means you, all the people who laughed.
The problem is that clearly most people haven't got that message, they either agree that it is ok to be racist, or they think it's not and that Carr is a massive ****.
Carr might be smugly thinking he has fooled a lot of people, but the end result is he normalised racism towards gypsies.
(I did watch it to see what the fuss was about, some of it was clever and edgy comedy, I don't think that was the case with this particular "joke")
Surely the only way we can gauge whether or not it's OK is Rachel Riley's reaction... after all, she is the grand adjudicator in these matters and seems to make a pretty penny deciding what people can and cannot say
Frankie Boyle I'm sure has said much 'worse' stuff.
And lets not forget Borat on Gypsies...
Part of the problem is the joke is nowhere near funny enough to justify the offence caused. It is the kind of joke that went round the school playground in the '80s. Carr is funnier than that.
It makes me wonder if it is some kind of auto self-destruct or cry for help or he is just bored.
Frankie Boyle I’m sure has said much ‘worse’ stuff.
And lets not forget Borat on Gypsies…
Fastest whataboutery in STW history I think?
It makes me wonder if it is some kind of auto self-destruct or cry for help or he is just bored.
I think it's an experiment. Didn't he say just before it, "this is the joke that will get me cancelled" ?
You can tell jokes that involve the Holocaust and some of them are even funny. This one wasn’t particularly.
if I’m being generous, I’ll agree with @Nick up there, it’s about the only explanation that makes any sense to me.
It makes me wonder if it is some kind of auto self-destruct or cry for help or he is just bored.
I wonder if it is just a gamble. He got a lot of publicity, no doubt driving more people to watch / pay. The closer he get to being shut down, the bigger the audience. Risk is he goes too far and losing big contracts like Channel 4. Maybe he is thinking he is coming to the end of his career so its like chucking everything on red, go big or go home type mentality.
His show is pretty wide ranging, definitely not for the easily offended and puts everyone in that uncomfortable space between comedy and unacceptable speech.
surprised there wasn't a thread already! Watched it last night, to see what the fuss was about (so I guess the guerrilla marketing worked then 😃). Not seen any of his stand-up but aware of his reputation as edge/offensive
TBH I thought it was pretty funny, and laughed at a lot of it. The stuff about anti-vaxxers especially was very good 😃 Yes, it's offensive, but he always has a little smile on his face and it doesn't come across in the same nasty way as someone like say Frankie Boyle. He's very self-deprecating as well!
The bit that everyone is complaining about, well he does call it a "career ender", and he precedes it by saying that he's probably going to get cancelled in the next few years (probably true, at least now 😃) so might as well "go out swinging".
anyone going to see his show or streaming it [I]wants[/I] to hear these jokes though, that seems to be his whole "thing". So it's not really "in public" is it? You're not going to hear it accidentally!You’ve not give a reason why it’s an acceptable joke to perform in public.
definitely thisthe vast majority of people who’ve taken such deep offence, a) haven’t watch it in full, so don’t have the benefit of context, b) had no interest in him whatsoever, until they found out of about in the media.
Its true that racism against gypsies is the most allowable form of racism
Been guilty of it myself in the past, but one of my sons best friends at school is a gypsie and hes a really nice kid, tough life to be born into when society looks down on you ( and as if school wasnt hard enough for teenagers looking for acceptance)
The joke has to be taken in context of the whole gig.
His stand up act is based on trying to fine the most offensive joke he can to end his shows, its been the same act for almost 2 decades. With a build up the worst joke Jimmy can think of and explanations along the way. It's still a horrendous, abhorrent joke, but Jimmy says so during the show, claiming it's a potentially career ending joke. Should he have said it?Personally I think so. I don't think it's a funny joke and I don't think Jimmy thinks it's supposed to be funny, it's just a 'how far can I take it?' and if it's acceptable 'what the hell do I come up with for the next show??’ - doesn't make it any better, but that's the point of comedy, pushing the boundaries to show how f'd up humanity is. Sometimes only laughter will get you through.
His stand up is very different to his TV personality. But a bit like Frankie Boyle, could be it's time to remove it from the mainstream audience.
Maybe we are at a comedy change again like the old school mother in-law jokes dieing out - maybe the current crop of comedians will be relegated live audience only.
so I guess the guerrilla marketing worked then
Nailed it.
So it’s not really “in public” is it?
Yes, it is. Netflix is just as public as TV, radio, newspapers... the marketing wouldn't have worked if it hadn't been published and available to watch.
Tbh he’s been making holocaust jokes for years, always prefixed with ‘these are some of the worst (most offensive) jokes I know’ or he’s been asked what his most offensive jokes are.
Maybe he's trying to stay edgy rather than turning into a Macintyre type presenting some dull chat show?
I'm surprised that people are surprised - he's always been known for this type of comedy.
Also shows nothing changes, and the spirit of Roy Chubby Brown is alive and well. As is Chubby Brown too it seems - thought he'd popped-off years ago! 🙂
I didn't see it before all the hoohah, because I watched about 15 minutes of the show and just found it awkward and unfunny.
The joke in question has been done to death elsewhere by now, but I think the real question here is this: Should comedians' freedom to make bad-taste jokes still apply if the jokes aren't funny?
The thing I'm most amazed at with the media attention are some of the people who seem to be most offended by it. Some MP's who vote record is shameful etc....
His show had been seen by all the live audiences, fans, critics etc but the ‘news’ that he’s caused some offence only came out last week, 6 weeks after the show was readily viewable by almost anyone? That’s manufactured. I don’t know whether that’s by his team, or someone that wants to take him down.
I’m not a big fan of his work, but I’m happy to give Carr the benefit of the doubt on this one - the joke is very clearly poking fun at anyone whose instinct is to think of Jews and gypsies in different ways. He’s mocking us, and our ‘polite’ society, not any of the Holocaust victims - I don’t think he’s racist and I suspect much of the ‘outrage’ is from the very people he’s actually mocking who have been personally offended (but are pretending to be offended on another’s behalf).
1. People have the right to say offensive things, that's how free speech works.
2. Other people have the right to be offended and boycott the offensive person.
In general, Jews can make fun of Jews, Blacks can make fun of Blacks, etc. He should not be surprised that people find that joke extremely offensive. He's either very dim or his intention was to be offensive, so why is he complaining? He achieved what he set out to do, surely.
so why is he complaining?
He's not - other people are....
I didn’t see it before all the hoohah, because I watched about 15 minutes of the show and just found it awkward and unfunny.
Same here. I have seen it now though.
Is it offensive? Well, yes, but that's exactly the point. He literally explains before and after the joke that its offensive and why he is telling it.
The problem with material like this is gets replayed out of context to either legitimise knuckle draggers who ignore the wider point or gets used by the pearl clutchers who do they same but for their own reasons.
Also it wasn't actually very funny.
Question for both "sides" on here.
The Nazi's also killed many disabled people in their efforts to purify their "race."
If Carr had said that, "on a positive note they killed thousands of the disabled" would it still be funny/ ok/ not ok?
I’m not a big fan of his work, but I’m happy to give Carr the benefit of the doubt on this one – the joke is very clearly poking fun at anyone whose instinct is to think of Jews and gypsies in different ways. He’s mocking us, and our ‘polite’ society, not any of the Holocaust victims – I don’t think he’s racist and I suspect much of the ‘outrage’ is from the very people he’s actually mocking who have been personally offended (but are pretending to be offended on another’s behalf).
Interesting.
Have to confess, on hearing the joke I did laugh out loud. It was quite funny in a bad taste way.
Trouble is the rationale "I'm not a racist, but I'm going to show you how many of the audience are racists by seeing who laughs at this 'joke'" is really just racism isn't it.
And I suspect that while a lot of people are happy to rationalize this as clever comedy, too many racists will not be able to do the mental gymnastics to work that they are the butt of his 'joke'
Had that 'joke' been made about any other ethnicity or disadvantaged group murdered in the holocaust there wouldn't be any discussion that it was off limits......So it must be off-limits for Romani and Sinti too - mustn't it?
If we try and pretend it's not racism - however we dress that pretence up - we are complicit with the racists.
And I'm not sure that with current political climate we want to go there do we?
they don't - no such thing as free speech (in the UK) - I think you've been watching too many US cop shows 😉1. People have the right to say offensive things, that’s how free speech works.
as above, he isn't - don't believe he's publicly responded to the row yet (nor have Netflix)so why is he complaining?
I tweeted one of Nad's grotesquely ironic screwups the other day (the minister for culture who wants to stop people being offensive on twitter has herself been pretty offensive! 🙂 ), in particular after appearing on HIGNFY and tweeting about seeing her daughter talking to Reginald D Hunter after the show, she included the charming #wheresmyshotgunman. Someone replied to mention a rape joke he'd done - I looked it up, it was from 2012, it was crude and it was nasty and I hope I'd be big enough to challenge it or walk out if I saw someone perform it today (of course I probably wouldn't, just moan about it on t'interweb afterwards).
Sad thing is, the thought occurs, I probably would have laughed at the time. I wouldn't laugh now.
I watched this when it came out 2 month ago or so. He opened the show by saying you’re going to hear some tasteless jokes about some controversial things, but remember doing those things is not Ok. Words to the effect. He’s known to crude in his live shows and often very.
The joke did make me cringe but what he was saying is that no one mentions because they were Gypsies, not that it’s Ok not to talk about them or joke about them. The context has been flipped to make it look like he was joking it’s Ok to do that.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If Carr had said that, “on a positive note they killed thousands of the disabled” would it still be funny/ ok/ not ok?</span>
Imo its the same joke..... We'd behaving the same discussion.
If you watch the whole clip he goes on to take the piss out of Jehovah witnesses - another semi-acceptable target to some people.
13500 calling for it to be pulled. Not sure netflix will even care about that little with their 220,000,000 subscribers who haven't expressed an opinion on the matter.
Have to confess, on hearing the joke I did laugh out loud.
Actually as jokes go I didnt even think it was that good, I've certainly heard far more outrageous. for sure it's nasty, but maybe its also an observation.
You’ve not give a reason why it’s an acceptable joke to perform in public.
Just moaned about those that find it offensive.
Because it's funny, it might not be to your taste, but the audience laugh (and groan) and it's not hate speech. There's nothing in the context of the act, or the joke that's hate speech.
I don't want to labour the point, but it's a joke in very poor taste, but lots of jokes are. Lots of humour is based on taboo subjects and JC is one of those Comics who is known for making jokes in very poor taste.
IMO if someone decides to watch a Stand-up act, by a Comic notorious for bad taste jokes that's advertised as "Jimmy Carr finds humour in the darkest of places in his stand-up special that features his dark, sardonic wit - and some jokes he calls "career enders".
Then, when that Comic gives a 'Trigger Warning' at the start that explains he's going to tell some jokes about terrible things that might have effected the audience or people they love, but reminds them that these are just jokes and not the "terrible things" (whilst mentioning Rape).
Then, watches for another 45 minutes, until that Comic mentioned the next 5 minutes is going to get worse, and they keep watching (past the first joke about the holocaust) but only then, decides that 1 joke out of the entire a act is obscene or worse still offensive, then really, I think they have to shoulder some of that blame themselves.
I don't think that's what happened though, like Dave Chappelle, a lot of people who aren't into that sort of humour, saw a clip, or just read about it and decided that it's mere existence was offensive to them and they knew better than Netflix or the BBFC and that it should banned, removed or struck from history and ideally Jimmy Carr made a pariah forever more.
What P-Jay said.
Imo its the same joke….. We’d behaving the same discussion.
Not quite. There was an edge to the joke because gypsies (or rather travellers) are generally held in low regard in UK society - and seen as a social nuisance due to an association with criminal and anti-social behaviour.
I assume that was supposed to be the payoff.
Anyway, I wonder if part of him wants to be "cancelled"? His heart didn't seem to really be in it and I found his delivery awkward and detached. He can afford to pack it in now, I'm sure.
Not quite
Genocide is genocide - there isn't a better or worse version.
What P-Jay said.
+1
Sad thing is, the thought occurs, I probably would have laughed at the time. I wouldn’t laugh now.
I count myself among that group - what is acceptable for humour changes as views and perceptions change and mature.
Without watching it, I can accept that his intention might have been to highlight differing attitudes to different races. Whether that would be wise and appropriate, let alone funny, is a different thing.
Regardless of the race/culture/creed/disability etc. is it acceptable to make a joke out of the systematic execution/eradication of people?
Why would it be acceptable to make a joke the holocaust?
Don't hear many Cambodia/Pol Pott, Burma, Balkan ethnic cleansing or African warlord jokes about the genocide that's being perpetrated all over the world - and is still going on.
As a side note I've seen Jimmy Carr live - I couldn't wait for his set to be over......
So to summarise
Some people think its funny the the Nazis killed a lot of Gypsies
Some people think its funny that there are people who think that Gypsies being killed by Nazis is funny
Some people think Jimmy Carr is ****
Some people think its funny the the Nazis killed a lot of Gypsies
If you can't tell the difference between a joke about genocide and genocide itself you really are going to struggle in this thread...
Perhaps it might be useful to have some reaction from a member of the Roma community to explain their perspective.
The quote below is from the guardian article explaining why the travelling community suggested that the tories response was a bit hypocritical.
So at least some people do regard it as hate speech, but whether it meets the legal threshold would need to be tested in court.
Personally, I have always thought he was a bit of an arse. Have I watched it? No. But the comments above from those that have really doesn’t inspire me to do so.
Rosa Cisneros, a member of the GRT community who researches Romani culture at Coventry University, said she was “sad but not surprised” by Carr’s joke.
“This situation has highlighted that anti-Gypsyism and Romaphobia still exists today. For me, it isn’t about censoring Jimmy Carr or being offended or me being part of the ‘woke’ brigade that I want to just cancel a show or infringe on someone’s freedom of speech and his rights. No, I am utterly horrified that we live in a space where such harmful and hateful speech is accepted and seen as a joke.”
Full article: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/feb/07/romas-accuse-government-of-hypocrisy-over-jimmy-carr-joke
Genocide is genocide – there isn’t a better or worse version.
Respectfully, I think you may have missed my point a bit.
His apparently justification for the joke is that it plays on prejudices against gypsies.
We are talking about the joke here, not whether genocide is kind-of OK in some circumstances.
So at least some people do regard it as hate speech,
There is always someone who will find anything offensive / call it hate speech.
Perhaps it might be useful to have some reaction from a member of the Roma community to explain their perspective.
If you ever watch Chris Rock's N word sketch, the audience is full if black people laughing their tits off.....
If you can’t tell the difference between a joke about genocide and genocide itself you really are going to struggle in this thread…
Um, I can clearly tell the difference, anyway, it was a joke, sorry
Watching that Ricky Gervais clip (yes, I still find him funny) immediately brought this to mind...
NSFW ... a bit sweary...
It's relevant to lots of other posts in this thread as well... well worth a watch... but I repeat... very sweary... headphones on if you're at work, or feeding your toddler...
I don't mind Jimmy Carr but it was a crap unpleasant joke, even if he thought he was making some smart point.
Jimmy Carr is living proof of cancel culture being largely a figment of imagination.
His apparently justification for the joke is that it plays on prejudices against gypsies.
People in the UK have prejudices against disabled people too - infact I'd argue that that gets far more attention within comedy than gypsies, cirtainly within the last 20 yrs, and I suspect that's why he chose to go that route.
He can afford to pack it in now, I’m sure.
Perhaps he had an unexpected tax bill to pay?
If you ever watch Chris Rock’s N word sketch, the audience is full if black people laughing their tits off…..
Isn't that completely different though?
It's ok to make fun of your own culture - but if someone from another culture made the same jokes people would be offended....
Perhaps if Jimmy Carr were a Romany it would have been ok....
I'm not a fan and not seen the show, so clearly ideally qualified to give unbiased comment...
Which is I dunno really? As a joke it's close in construction to Bernard Manning one (how to describe a racist joke without inadvertently telling it?) whereby he says that joking aside, what he really wants is, listing a bunch of ethnic groups at length, for everyone to get together all as one group to -quick punchline- assault another ethnic group. Only difference is in the 70s he'd tell that on mainstream telly. Seriously...
On the other hand, Carr is speaking in a different time to an audience he assumes will be anti racist. An the joke is kind of at racists, whilst making a right on audience grit their teeth in an épater le bourgeois kind of way. And if, like Alf Garnet or the Pub Landlord not all his audience will get that, so what?
Well I guess for me let's just say Jerry Sadovitz turns the dial excruciatingly further, whilst clearly no success and being hardest on himself, and looking to shock a white middle class and he assumes guardian reading audience out of their complacency... But why I'll never go and see him again is wondering what I looked like to the younger, female, Indian subcontinent family origin members of the audience. Beyond uncomfortable... Which kind of may be the point though I think poorly judged. As so too the Carr one albeit on a lower level. Though he clearly thinks he's going for something he should probably leave it...
Surely the only way we can gauge whether or not it’s OK is Rachel Riley’s reaction
Don't be a bigger bellend than usual JHJ.
Watched it a few days after release and remember thinking on the whole it was a funny special. Re watched it at the weekend to see if I’d missed something, still found it funny!
I think people struggle with the fact that stand up is just an act, the same as someone on tv or in a film. Al Murray isn’t a little englander, Stewart lee isn’t that far left wing, Anthony Jeselnik doesn’t like dropping babies. To me it’s the same as an actor in a film using the racist language, just because it came out their mouth doesn’t mean they think/mean it
bigger bellend than usual JHJ
Don't get jealous about the size of my bellend... 😉
I think the Holocaust material would have been a bit much if that's all there had been but luckily Jimmy managed to keep it light by throwing in the usual rape jokes and a fair sprinkling of material about child sex abuse. Phew!
Surely the only way we can gauge whether or not it’s OK is Rachel Riley’s reaction
Don’t be a bigger bellend than usual JHJ.
Of all the comments on the thread, that's the one that wound you up?
Haha, yep, I thought JHJ's comment was a bit of light relief.
I saw the set live a while back, with my son. Jimmy Carr did paedo jokes, incest jokes, holocaust jokes... etcetc. Things that aren't at all funny, made funny by a comedian. It was brilliant.
He even did a paedo joke actually to my son..!
He even set up the holocaust joke by saying here's something that will offend everyone...
He's actually wading in and making a statement about what comedians can and can't joke about.
Then this happens. I just saw it as a "Later... " piece at the start of a news programme.
I haven't watched any of the news reports or read up on it, because it is so BLINDINGLY ****ING OBVIOUS what the hard of thinking will be saying, that I don't need to.
It's not the first Holocaust joke he's told. He's told one before about a school mate getting caught masturbating in the showers on a school trip, with the punchline subsequently revealing that school trip was to Auschwitz. That joke came at the end of of string of increasingly (potentially) offensive jokes that he was telling to test the limit as to what you can joke about. When he told that joke, everyone laughed, although it was the kind of laugh bourne as much out of shock for having told something so horrendously offensive that all you can do is laugh.
Nothing should be offlimits for comedy and there was a lot of push back from the comedy community when the UK passed laws making it an offence to tell certain jokes based on religion etc.
Jokes are societies (safe) way of exploring how it really feels about a thing. The mistake people make, when they found a joke offensive, is to think that that automatically means the comedian is sanctioning the thing they are making fun of. Of course if they are doing that then that's deeply problematic and in our history we have found some comedians to be guilty of that. Bernard Manning springs to mind.
But the role of the 'jester' in playing back to society its moires, foibles, values and hypocricies is hugely important part of maintaining cohesion and for reinforcing our values. Jimmy Carr treads a fine line and for sure he will upset a lot of people. But until I think he really does mean it when he says that killing the gypisies was a good thing, I will be OK with him telling that joke.
For those who don't think it's funny, that noise that keeps coming from the audience is laughter 😉 (wink because the comment is tongue in cheek before you attack me)
To laugh at this joke doesn't mean you are racist, it's funny because of the juxtaposition between what the audience expect is coming next (holocaust was bad thing for everyone) and what Carr says (holocaust nobody thinks of the upsides) that's largely how jokes work. To hear it again, not so funny as you know the punchline and the surprise is lost. (I don't think it was his A-material FWIW)
That being said I worked with a guy who liked Frankie Boyle because he thought he actually was racist and hated immigrants - in line with his own beliefs - Frankie has since been found not to be racist by a jury in a Court of Law but I can understand how people may see his on stage persona as being so.
As someone whose grandfather died in Auschwitz I feel I should contribute to this thread. I haven't really talked about it before but he was a huge influence on my life even though I never met him. In my eyes he died a hero.
He got drunk one night and fell off the guard tower.*
*This joke is obviously not being told by the actual BruceWee but by the 'character' BruceWee who is a joke telling persona I created.
It's very clever because I'm first subverting expectations by starting with a sombre tone before moving onto a highly offensive punchline.
It's also very clever because I'm posting it on a thread where people are arguing that it's OK to make offensive jokes that aren't actually all that funny so you don't know to what extent I believe the guards were the true heroes of the holocaust and to what extent I'm making fun of people who find the joke funny.
It really is the perfect joke because racists can find it funny on a surface level, racists who like to pretend they aren't racists can find it funny because it's so 'clever', and anyone who doesn't find it funny is obviously a bed-wetting snowflake lib-tard.
He’s told one before about a school mate getting caught masturbating in the showers on a school trip, with the punchline subsequently revealing that school trip was to Auschwitz.
Now that is actually funny, and arguably much less offensive.
Jokes are societies (safe) way of
... making a living.
That being said I worked with a guy who liked Frankie Boyle because he thought he actually was racist and hated immigrants – in line with his own beliefs – Frankie has since been found not to be racist by a jury in a Court of Law but I can understand how people may see his on stage persona as being so.
Al Murry / Pub Landlord suffers the same 'fate', the positive thing about all that it, Al often subtly challenges the stereotypes that his character portrays and, should at least give his audience who aren't in on the joke a different perspective.
The mistake people make, when they found a joke offensive, is to think that that automatically means the comedian is sanctioning the thing they are making fun of. Of course if they are doing that then that’s deeply problematic and in our history we have found some comedians to be guilty of that.
Comedy treads a fine line. Shows I grew up with in the 70s like Are You Being Served or It Ain't Half Hot Mum - were they portraying sexist/homophobic/racist attitudes to support and promote them, or to mock them and highlight their stupidity and maybe make the audience question their own beliefs and attitudes?
It's not always as clear cut as our current simplistic "black or white" social media led world view would like it to be.
Shows I grew up with in the 70s like Are You Being Served or It Ain’t Half Hot Mum – were they portraying sexist/homophobic/racist attitudes to support and promote them, or to mock them and highlight their stupidity and maybe make the audience question their own beliefs and attitudes?
Those shows have not aged well. Aside from the offensiveness, they just aren't funny.
[i]To laugh at this joke doesn’t mean you are racist, it’s funny because... etc[/i]
Wow, imagine being someone who needs this shit explained to you. Certainly glad I'm not one of those.
Aside from the offensiveness, they just aren’t funny.
Much like Carr...
Should have tried it out on Tyson Fury first perhaps. I'd pay to watch that.
The other side to this, is Comedy dividing line of punching up, or down.
Not long ago, it was pretty simple, the likes of Bernard Manning, Roy Brown and Jim Davidson made jokes about Minorities and Women (who were under represented in Comedy) they punched down, which was bullying really.
The likes of Ben Elton and Alexie Sayle made jokes about authority figures and inequality, they punched up.
It still stands today, superficially it seems that Jimmy Carr is punching down, he's staying horrible things about a minority group that is persecuted, but that's not the point. Genocide of minority groups isn't funny. I think Carr, like a lot of US based Comic is doing with his "career ending jokes" is punching up at Cancel Culture.
Those shows have not aged well. Aside from the offensiveness, they just aren’t funny.
Conversely, Benny Hill back on TV again, does not feel as offensive as it used to be and there is a lot of comedy genius.
Regardless of what you think of Jimmy Carr's joke, I can guarantee you there will be/has been an upsurge of abuse towards travellers using words similar to what he said. Traveller kids in schools will be getting bullied with it, guaranteed.
Jimmy Carr isn't stupid he will have known that would happen and did the joke anyway. 'Hey it's just comedy not my fault' doesn't really wash with me.
You used to have people saying 'I agree with Alf Garnett'. Comedians should be free to put it out there and its success judged by the size of the paying audience. I've never laughed so much as at Jerry Sadowitz offending everyone. Its dangerous once people start putting themslves up as the repressive moral adjudicators and its often not too difficult to find the people they are quite happy to discriminate against.
It’s not always as clear cut as our current simplistic “black or white” social media led world view would like it to be.
I completely agree and that was the point I was making. You can't automatically assume that the offensive joke is sanctioning the thing being made fun of but you also cannot automatically assume that it's not. In the 70s it is easy to see that a lot of comedy was made at the expense of those marginalised groups (which is why they were marginalised back then) and yet the fact that there were groups we poked fun at is one of the ways we were able to recognise the wrong we were doing.
It’s not a funny joke. It’s not meant to be a funny joke. It’s meant to make you think. Particularly if your instinct was to laugh or smirk. I don’t believe Carr is in the least bit racist. But I do believe he is wants to make people feel uncomfortable at their innate reaction. And think.
Maybe he’s trying to stay edgy rather than turning into a
MacintyreFrankie Boyle type presenting some dull chat show?
FTFY. I used to like Frankie Boyle before I saw him laughing along to David "pineapple on his head" Baddiel's fake statistics about Corbyn.
Yep, I’m sure the audience all went to the pub afterwards and had a think about what they found funny about Jimmy’s jokes. Oh, I laughed, but I was being post-ironic.
All this guff reminds me of is the old ‘I’m not racist, but . . .’ bollox.
"I'll tell you one good thing about the war in Afghanistan, with all the troops getting injured, we're going to have a shit hot 2012 Paralympic team"
That's a Jimmy Carr joke from over twenty years ago, his stand up has always been offensive like that, if you don't like it don't watch it.
If you want to be pissed off by something he's done, start with the massive tax dodging.
