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Aren't we frothing about this?
It's legal, what's the problem?
He must have done a joke that upset the pm.
Prime Minister David Cameron has said the tax arrangements of comedian Jimmy Carr are "not morally right".
I fully support the annoying knob
It's nothing new, everyone knows that's representative of how tax is dealt with in that earnings bracket, it's not about the individual, its the system.
Hopk1ns - MemberIt's legal, what's the problem?
He's been pretty withering about other people's tax dealings in the past. I've no problem with what he's done- as you say, it's legal, hate the game not the playa... But the personal hypocrisy is crap.
That said, David Cameron's having a laugh, Carr's tax is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to other tax minimising schemes he's never felt he had to speak out about, never mind act on.
I fully support the annoying knob
Which one?
He's been pretty withering about other people's tax dealings in the past.
Has he ? Did anyone take him seriously ? I thought he was a comedian who told jokes ?
Often quite funny ones too.
Hopk1ns - MemberIt's legal, what's the problem?
Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.
And it makes Carr a hypocrite:
It's the governments job to close tax loopholes. If this loophole is one that is losing the country a significant amount of revenue, then close it.
Or is the plan to "name and shame" individuals that are taking advantage of these tax loopholes? Maybe Mr Cameron would like to publish a list of conservative party donors that keep money off-shore?!? No? Didn't think so.
Who the hell advised "dave" to start a very public fight with a PROFESSIONAL COMEDIAN?
Leftytrackworld seem OK with aggressive tax avoidance schemes, what a turn up!
I'm waiting for Tory non-Dom grandee lord Ashcroft of Belize to deride jimmy too. Followed by Tory advisor and non taxpaying Monaco resident Phillip Green, then maybe offshore bank account hoarding Tory MP's Zac Goldsmith and George Osbourne
Shouldn't imagine I'll have to wait long
I fully support the annoying knobWhich one?
not sure 😉
It's legal, what's the problem?
Its immoral.
Done to death yes you would if you could - actually I declined etc ad naseum
allthepies - MemberLeftytrackworld seem OK with aggressive tax avoidance schemes, what a turn up!
What do you base that on ?
I can't see any evidence to back up that claim.
Sean Lock will rip the piss out of Jimmy on Friday 😆
"So what's the press been talking about this week?"
I'm waiting for Tory non-Dom grandee lord Ashcroft of Belize to deride jimmy too. Followed by Tory advisor and non taxpaying Monaco resident Phillip Green, then maybe offshore bank account hoarding Tory MP's Zac Goldsmith and George Osbourne
Do you think Ken Livingstone, David Milipede, Ed Milipede and Lord Sugar will join in the derision too?
he said milipede instead of milliband ...GETTIT EH
I can barely type for laughing at his cunning witticism
Lord Poogar
Ken drivelstone
You can have them on me
I've got some much, much funner names for them Junky
company 06039349
and
company 06574918
Funny names, eh - they're the personal services companies that Alan and Ken set up for their media work, to avoid paying tax on their incomes
Now, you would have thought that if you got Ken in for a personal appearance then you were getting good old red old Ken Livingstone, but no, you were employing companies house number 06574918 - which looks just like Ken, sounds just like Ken, but isn't Ken - I reckon is a cracker of a name 😉
"I am not a free man, I am a number"
All's well in Zulu's little world then. He's in really good form today. 😆
I am impressed at your conversion and glad you no longer approve of tax avoidance. For a moment there I thought you were labouring [ see what i did there] a weak political point with silly name calling to boot
David milliband is just as much a tax dodger, but it seems to be ok for him to evade paying tax because he's a labour MP and we all know they are all demigods( scum is a better description of them TBH).
[i]He's been pretty withering about other people's tax dealings in the past.[/i]Has he ? Did anyone take him seriously ? I thought he was a comedian who told jokes ?
Often quite funny ones too.
If he's trying to be a satirist, as it seems when he has a go at other people's tax dealings, then he has to be above reproach on that score at least. cf Angus Deayton
Celebrities ... they step on you maggots! They think they are gods and you owe them a living. 😆
Leftytrackworld
Not all of us run Lefties, most are on Rockshocks and Fox Forks.
I thank you.
Thanks for that Gorehound so now we know your view of labour politicians [ it was a big shock I can tell you] any chance you could express a view on tax avoidance?
Is it ok or is it bad ...if that is too taxing [ oh I am on fire tonight 🙄 ] then perhaps just comment on tory tax avoiders.
It's not a Carr Tax - it's a Road Fund Licence.
It's the governments job to close tax loopholes.
+1!
Why the **** isn't Cameron sorting it out rather than presenting it as some kind of moral outrage. its HIS fault.
I fear he may be distracting everyone from the minimal tax paid by lots of rich people of people by making us argue about Jimmy Carrs tax status.
David milliband is just as much a tax dodger, but it seems to be ok for him to evade paying tax because he's a labour MP
David Milliband has not evaded paying taxes, at least he hasn't been convicted of it. So if you have any information pass it on to HMCR.
It is however ok for him to use a tax avoidance scheme because despite a promise to clamp down on such schemes the last Labour government never actually did, the present government can put this right of course. That's the reason why it's ok - it has nothing to do with him being a Labour MP.
BTW if you want to select a Labour politician for tax avoidance I suggest you look at Tony Blair Associates.
It's the governments job to close tax loopholes.
It's the accountants' job to break it again ... in return for a cut ...
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/20/jimmy-carr-tax-david-cameron ]guardian article[/url]
Looks like customs are on it anyway, and after vodafone i doubt they can be seen to do deals
Yes, it is wrong. Yes, I would do the same if I earned millions of pounds a year (and deep down so would most of you).
randomjeremy - MemberYes, it is wrong. Yes, I would do the same if I earned millions of pounds a year (and deep down so would most of you).
If you earned millions you don't even have to ask because the accountants will help you do that without you knowing (well you know once they have explained how it works and the amount you save) and then ask for a cut or pay rise.
😆
Isn't this just another aid to telling the difference between someone you'd give the steam off your piss, and someone who clearly wouldn't give you theirs.
Bottom line - Jimmy Carr is a selfish twunt, and so are lots of other people who are rich enough not to be.
Yes, it is wrong. Yes, I would do the same if I earned millions of pounds a year (and deep down so would most of you).
Thanks for pointing out what an execrable human being I must be without even realising it.
He's been pretty withering about other people's tax dealings in the past... But the personal hypocrisy is crap.
Which is why I hate Bono with a passion. "save the world, it's up to us to save the world. Well, I say 'us', I mean more 'you', because although you're now £100 lighter for having paid to come see me spout bollocks, I don't actually pay any tax, which would, in an incremental way, save the world. So, er, yeah"
HoratioHufnagel - Member
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/20/cameron-family-tax-havens
/p>
Ah, the [b]Guardian[/b] as source material, excellent!
[img] 
[/img]
Surely JC is not the only entertainer pulling this trick? (well his accountant is doing the hard work). Just wonder who else is involved and why Carr has been picked out.
Unless it is Carr's accountant trying to get more business;-)
Is it immoral to follow the rules that apply to you and minimise your losses? I'm not sure it is. If those methods are open to all, is it not just common sense? If, in a job interview, you were offered a wage, or a wage plus a pension that allowed you to pay less tax and save more (i.e. taken out before tax calculations), would you take the moral high ground and pay more tax? Or is this just because the chap currently makes a lot of cash (which he probably didn't for the 25 years leading up to this point and probably won't in 5 years when his starry career fades into forgotten land).
Alot of these schemes prove in the fullness of time not to work, the one used by Carr seems to be punted by a pretty low rent outfit based on their web presence, they may be great, but a lot of schemes have failed at the Tax Tribunal.
To put journalists into perspective, the quotes used by journalists are lifted directly from the website so my guess is they have not spoken to anyone, obviously they don't want to leave you with that impression.
CallMeDave should stop being such a breathtaking hypocrite and lay off Jimmy Carr. What Carr does legally with his own money is his business. Only yesterday, Cameron was publicly encouraging French people who didn't want to pay tax in France to come and live here so that they could AVOID DOING SO.
Someone give him a bandage for the hole in his foot. Charge him VAT for it, mind...
Probably no more immoral than those who try to force shops to offer internet prices, eventually putting them out of business.
Or looking for excuses for not paying a speeding ticket.
Isn't it something on the lines of he who casting the first stone?
coffeeking - MemberIs it immoral to follow the rules that apply to you and minimise your losses?
But you're not paying your fair share - someone else has to pay that for you.
So in answer to your question, yes, receiving the benefits of UK tax expenditure without contributing, when you in a better position than most to do so, is immoral.
He's been pretty withering about other people's tax dealings in the past... But the personal hypocrisy is crap.
Which is why I hate Bono with a passion.
I have only ever heard Jimmy Carr tell jokes, and I have seen him a fair bit on the telly - I've even seen him live once. Since when has he been involved in a campaign against tax avoidance ?
I would be genuinely interested if someone could provide some sort of link. I've tried goggle but can't find anything. I assume there must be some sort of basis to these allegations of hypocrisy, but I'll be buggered if I can find anything 😕
Zulu does the tax position* of the Guardian media Group have any bearing on the accuracy of the report in the newspaper?
* are you claiming what they did was avoidance?
I am politley asking WTF your point is.
Is the truth of the article somehow related to their tax bill?
But you're not paying your fair share - someone else has to pay that for you.
.. But if you pay more than your competitors you'll go out of business because they'll undercut you (admitedly this may not be the case with comedians, but my guess is they do not form a large proportion of those evading tax).
Morals only come into it in the sense that the government needs to sort it out. you can't rely on morals as a means of tax collection.
I have only ever heard Jimmy Carr tell jokes, and I have seen him a fair bit on the telly - I've even seen him live once. Since when has he been involved in a campaign against tax avoidance ?
Wouldn't it be a case of him doing sketches that point the finger at banks/corporations that reduce their tax bills as opposed to being involved in any specific campaign. I don't see you pulling anything out to demonstrate he isn't involved either, so I guess we'll never know on that one.
What Carr does legally with his own money is his business
yeah they should just mind their own ****ing business and get on with setting tax rules and the laws of the country 😕
if he can dodge tax or anyone then good on em , i hate tax !
He did a skit on Barclay's tax avoidance on some Channel 4 show, that is what irks.
EDIT: hadn't realised already posted on previous page
Europe 1 reported Cameron has invited French people that fear paying our new sort-of-socialist goverement too much tax to take up residence in the UK. How morally right is that?
with so many people riding about on high horses someones bound to come a cropper.
That a richer than average 'meeja' type chose to take advantage of the loopholez available to them doesn't really shock anymore than any MP or company MD/CEO...
Next....
J K Rowling pays full UK tax on her earnings and offshore's nothing
She did this as she wrote her book on the dole and felt morally obliged to repay the investment
Some might say that she can afford to with her huge Harry Potter gravy train but at least she's morally well placed when the karma train comes into town
.. But if you pay more than your competitors you'll go out of business because they'll undercut you
Not always true, in many cases its more to do with greed than the claimed competitiveness.
Sorry Edukator, I don't think you need to worry, that won't happen
TJ has been telling us for years that the Laffer curve is a right wing fantasy, and that if you increase taxes on high earners, they don't just F off abroad.
FACT!
😉
at least tickets for his next tour will be cheaper.. yay!
Wouldn't it be a case of him doing sketches that point the finger at banks/corporations that reduce their tax bills as opposed to being involved in any specific campaign. I don't see you pulling anything out to demonstrate he isn't involved either, so I guess we'll never know on that one.
So he's done some jokes about banks ? And that makes him a hypocrite ?
When Jimmy Carr tells jokes it's to make a serious point ? I thought his jokes were about taking the piss, it never occurred to me that he was being serious. Which is probably how I'll carry on interpreting it.
I don't see you pulling anything out to demonstrate he isn't involved either, so I guess we'll never know on that one.
What's that suppose to mean - that because I can't prove that he was not opposed to tax avoidance we have to assume that he possibly was, and therefore that he is a hypocrite ? 😕
DP, sorry.
Morals only come into it in the sense that the government needs to sort it out.
That's the most pathetic denial of responsibility I've heard in a while.
'Yes, I did something completely immoral. Why wasn't there someone to stop me?'
Which is probably how I'll carry on interpreting it.
Carry on then...
It's fascinating who you bump into doing their shopping in places along the north side of lake Geneva.
Amélie Mauresmo, Patricia Kaas, Phil Collins, Tina Turner, Richard Virenque, James Blunt, Michael Schumacher, Alain Prost, Jean Alesi, Sébastien Loeb, Alain Delon, Marie Laforêt, Johnny Hallyday, Charles Aznavour... .
Carry on then...
Thank you, I will.
And you carry in interpreting that comedians are making serious points when telling jokes. It wouldn't do if everyone treated jokes as, well, just jokes. Obviously it's no laughing matter. Don't forget to whip yourself up into a froth of indignation if you detect any "hypocrisy" in any of their jokes.
"searches internet to see how JC is doing soo damnnn fine"
And you carry in interpreting that comedians are making serious points when telling jokes. It wouldn't do if everyone treated jokes as, well, just jokes. Obviously it's no laughing matter. Don't forget to whip yourself up into a froth of indignation if you detect any "hypocrisy" in any of their jokes.
Kind of weird because I thought that comedians like Ben Elton and the like were using comedy to provide us with deeper messages, they were just comedians all along. Silly me.
For the purposes of accuracy where did I call him hypocritical, I just offered an example.
So Jimmy Carr is like Ben Elton is he ? Indeed are you saying most comedians are ? 😀
I can't imagine two much more different comedians. One was politically correct to the point of boring, and the other one sometimes makes me cringe at his politically incorrectness, amusing as it invariably is.
So Jimmy Carr is like Ben Elton is he ?
Your words ernesto. Where the frigg do you get these ideas? You keep reading things into what other people say.
It's like having a two year old in the house at times. Why? Why? Why? Why? You're supposed to be a bit smarter than that, no?
Back to The Clash I think, I do like a nice little pop song to sing along to, no politics there, no siree... Can't have a popular singer making political comments, can we?
Nice photo of Jimmy Carr on the BBC website
[img] 
[/img]
Is he auditioning for a job as a sex doll?
druidh - Member
Is he auditioning for a job as a sex doll?
I'm guessing you know better than us what one looks like...
Your words ernesto. Where the frigg do you get these ideas? You keep reading things into what other people say.
The question mark denotes a "question" DS. So I take it you can't see a connection between the two. Where do I get these ideas from ? Well I take clues from what you post, eg :
[i]"I thought that comedians like Ben Elton and the like were using comedy to provide us with deeper messages"[/i]
So why mention [i]"Ben Elton and the like"[/i] if there is no connection with Jimmy Carr ?
Why? Why? Why? Why? You're supposed to be a bit smarter than that, no?
No not really. I'm struggling.
No not really. I'm struggling.
Not often I agree with you ernesto, but I'm with you on this one.
So why mention "Ben Elton and the like" if there is no connection with Jimmy Carr ?
Do you really need that spelled out to you? TBH ernesto I really can't be arsed, it's like pulling teeth...
I think Carr's problem is one of association, because he makes a satirical TV show with Charlie Booker (Guardian columnist), David Mitchell (Guardian Columnist) and Lauren Laverne (OBserver columnist), a certain demographic Guardian readers think he is one of them. I agree with EL that he is not paricularly political in his comedy but by hanging out with the wrong sort he is assumed to be of the soft left and therefore this false assumption leads to the accusations of hypocrisy. This can be contrasted with Ken Livingstone, who made specific politic statements, or someone like Andrew Marr taking out a superinjunction.
EDIT: I think Cameron was ill advised to go into the morality of tax avoidance.
Do you really need that spelled out to you?
Sounds like you do have to spell it out to me - I'm really struggling.
You make a comparison between Jimmy Carr and Ben Elton, and then suggest that there is is no caparison between Jimmy Carr and Ben Elton, claiming it's just me "reading things".
I would be ever-so grateful if you could explain it all to me. Although sadly I suspect that you can't, so you'll come out with some old bollox about not being arsed just to save you the embarrassment of admitting that you were talking nonsense. Am I right ?
Put simply-
Tax avoidance if it's a Lefty (Livingstone, Carr, Milliband, Guardian et al) = Fine
Tax avoidance if you're a nasty Tory evil person = BAD. EVIL. Etc.
🙂
.
You make a comparison between Jimmy Carr and Ben Elton, and then suggest that there is is no caparison between Jimmy Carr and Ben Elton, claiming it's just me "reading things"
Where did all this happen? You say comedians can not do anything else except make jokes yet an example, not comparison, of Elton to illustrate a point has you all confused and doing your usual. As mefty has said is easy to be confused in this and believe that JC is being a bit political and might be considered to be hypocritical.
Like I said ernesto, I'll leave you to it...
"You will need the world's biggest, most aggressive team of blood-hungry amoral tax lawyers. If you meet the criteria, you'll pay one per cent tax like Barclays do."
Looks like he met his own criteria. Q 😆
If I knew a way of saving money on tax I would do it. I need every penny I can. Granted JC has more money but still
CaptainFlashheart - MemberPut simply-
Tax avoidance if it's a Lefty (Livingstone, Carr, Milliband, Guardian et al) = Fine
Jimmy Carr is a "Lefty" is he Flashheart ? Well you might well be right - I have no idea, despite being a reasonable fan of his.
So what do you base that claim on Flashheart.......is it because Jimmy Carr is a very amusing comedian and no one that amusing could possibly be right-wing ? Do tell.
For the record I think legal tax avoidance is fine, whoever does it, even I do it. However I don't think opposition to plugging unacceptable loopholes is fine.
I think the confusion here may be caused by the fact that some people seem to think Ben Elton is a comedian ?
Surely that's not been the case for about 2 decades.
he should pay same tax like everyone else. is this a difficult one?