Jetboil equivalent for home kitchen?

These were around for ever. My grandparents had one - Simplex Kettle since 1903. It might have been a bit cheaper than this one https://neweybloomer.co.uk

Look up heat diffuser, same sort of effect I think. Allows greater surface area of the pan to be heated, means you can reduce gas setting a bit.

I've been reading about heat diffusers. A lot of people are saying that they can now simmer whereas before they'd boil over. Does this mean that the heat is actually being radiated away rather than directed into the pan? It's not clear. There are two kinds - a cast iron type that is used to protect ceramic cookware like a tagine, the other is a holey thing. It's not clear if they have fins inside to work as a heat exchanger or just act as baffles for hot air flow.

I guess that any "wasted" heat when cooking indoors is going to heat up your house rather than the atmosphere (directly) so there's been less of a demand?

I find my biggest argument is with others in the household to use the flippin' pan lid. A) saves on gas and B) stops as much moisture into the house, so requiring either dehumidifier and/or more heating.

I guess that any “wasted” heat when cooking indoors is going to heat up your house rather than the atmosphere

Well it goes into the kitchen which isn't necessarily where we want it the rest of the evening.

There's been less demand because gas hasn't been expensive enough to warrant it. And noone outside of the outdoor enthusiast world knew about such things.

Would they have to be custom per pan size I guess.

One thing I have always wondered was why no insulated pans?

Have a look on Amazon for Firemaple and Tentock brands, have the heat exchanger and airflow base options. Not pretty though.

One thing I have always wondered was why no insulated pa

Cost, difficulties in keeping it clean (dishwasher?), moisture??

And, generally, things in pans do not need to stay hot for long periods (if they do they go in the oven - which is insulated) so maybe the requirement isn't actually there.
For example: a kettles' job is just to boil water - once that's done it's job is finished.

I reckon this would be far more efficient.

Isn't this where induction hobs are so much more efficient? The heat is generated by the pan itself rather than sitting on a heat source of a pre-defined size that can flow around the pan rather causing wasted energy.

I find my biggest argument is with others in the household to use the flippin’ pan lid.

Very much this! The number of times I've gone into the kitchen to see a pan with the lid half off (to stop it boiling over*) - just put the lid on and turn the heat down!!

* Our gas hobs could never go low enough to simmer with the lid on though - but we've had induction for 4 years now so it's not a thing anymore.

It’ll be air fryers for bivvying next. Eeeeeeeee.

* Our gas hobs could never go low enough to simmer with the lid on though – but we’ve had induction for 4 years now so it’s not a thing anymore.

Life Hack: turn it north of the stopper to reduce the flow beyond ‘minimum’. Of course you may blow up your house doing this but you’re also sticking your middle finger at Poootin.

Of course you may blow up your house

Life (ending) hack?

There’s been less demand because gas hasn’t been expensive enough to warrant it. And noone outside of the outdoor enthusiast world knew about such things.

I guess, but even then it only offsets the weight of the gas carried after weeks of teak making Vs just a normal mug. And domestic gas is a fraction of the price of canisters (different issue to carrying weight, but I'm guesing it would be a very long payback time).

This article reackons 2p to boil a kettle on the hob (doesn't say how many cups though), but that's still a heck of a lot of boils to payback the cost of even a cheap pan. And a lot more to reach the cost difference between a £5 saucepan and say a £40 one (based on the price of a jetboil copy).

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/engineer-boils-water-kettle-hob-24884534

Pyrex jug/water/microwave.

I find my biggest argument is with others in the household to use the flippin’ pan lid. A) saves on gas and B) stops as much moisture into the house, so requiring either dehumidifier and/or more heating.

We've an AGA and 99% of cooking is within the ovens and we never boil water in a pan, that's the (electric) kettles job. We just add the boiling water to the veg/pasta/rice as required.

Not only does it keep moisture out but also any smells go straight up the flu and by adding boiling water directly, a lot quicker to cook.

Pan's do have QR handles, standard AGA.

Isn’t this where induction hobs are so much more efficient?

Yes, but conversely gas is cheaper.

I could only find one instance of someone measuring the actual efficiency of heat transfer, and it suggested that an induction hob was about 74% efficient when boiling water and the gas hob was 32%. So the induction hob is about twice as efficient but the gas is 1/5th the price, which ties in with TINAS's article.

Therefore, what I want is a way to make the gas more efficient still. And it's not just boiling water for a cup of tea, it's simmering food for potentially long periods of time along with frying and boiling beg for 10 mins etc etc.

Re simmering on gas - there's a flow adjustment screw on your gas burner. It's often in the centre of the spindle that the knob sits on. Pull the knob off and stick a tiny screwdriver down there you can turn it down. BUT BEWARE, DANGER OF DEATH! I did this and I can now get a nice low flame for simmering with the lid on - but only if you turn it down slowly. If you whack the knob down to minimum quickly it goes out, then your kitchen fills with gas. So get a registered plumber etc etc.

Just had a thought - how do gas ovens compare with electric ones? They will be similarly insulated but the gas oven needs an exhaust through which a lot of heat probably exits?

This article reackons 2p to boil a kettle on the hob (doesn’t say how many cups though), but that’s still a heck of a lot of boils to payback the cost of even a cheap pan. And a lot more to reach the cost difference between a £5 saucepan and say a £40 one (based on the price of a jetboil copy).

But as I reminded a colleague today, (mains) gas is the cheapest form of energy - in a conversation about them 'saving' money by not using their CH but an electric fan heater...

Pyrex jug/water/microwave.

I think I’d be dead before the kettle linked at the top paid for itself

I was discussing this a few weekends ago. I've got one of those heat exchanger pans for camping from decathlon and it's flipping fast to boil 600ml of water on a little canister gas stove. Considerably faster than on the hob with a normal pan, and potentially even quicker than a kettle. You could definitely use them indoors, you'd need a smaller burner for a given pan size and would be able to turn the heat right down. Bit delecate though.

Pyrex jug/water/microwave.

What is the efficiency of a microwave? Generally RF stuff isn't very efficient - certainly in microwave comms it's not.

I've been involved in quite a few calcs. for industrial processes and the gas cheap vs electric is not so simple.
Because gas heating requires a flue for your burned gas you lose a lot of heat up the chimney.
Without heat recovery for a lot of processes this brings the efficiency down to 30% or so. With electricity 90% or more is relatively easy.
As gas is about a third of the cost of electricity this makes the fuel costs fairly similar.
I don't know the figures for domestic ovens but electric will be more efficient. Also electric is faster to warm up, easier to control and usually bakes more evenly.
NB for raising steam or heating water gas is still usually much cheaper and the cheapest fuel option is often gas with heat recovery of some kind.
Have you tried an MSR diffuser or a Jetboil type pan on the gas hob as an experiment? Primus sell larger heat exchanger pans that might be more of the size needed for home:
https://www.primusequipment.com/eu/en-gb/cookware/pots-pans/primetech-pot-set-23l

I’d heard before that a microwave was a mega-efficient way of boiling water, so I just googled it. Nope!! 😃

Maybe depends on how much water?
One cupful must use less energy than in a kettle Shirley? Might take longer.

My "larger" bikepacking pot set is the Optimus Terra Weekend. The pot on that has a HE and I've always said that it makes for a more flexible, but similarly efficient, set-up when compared to the Jetboil-alikes.

I've never tried it on the kitchen cooker though.

@scoutroutes that's exactly the pan I've got from decathlon years ago. With a soto windmaster it's brilliant.

Well the actual camping pans are too small to be useful for family cooking. I do however have an MSR heat exchanger, but it might not be big enough for our smallest pan that has a lid.

I am very tempted to get hold of some brass sheet and try and make something just for the hell of it 🙂

Do these things exist?

What, kettles?

.

Lots of waste heat to room, lots of water vapour into house and also unhealthy pollution - There are good reasons not to cook on gas.
https://www.politico.eu/article/gas-stove-killer-health-climate-pollution/

From a cost point of view I’ve not done the calculations but I suspect that, compared to the potential saving from reducing your home heating and hot water costs, the potential savings are pretty minimal. (Especially since the waste heat goes into your home anyway).

Well I've done the 'experiment' to see.
Planetx jetboil copy pan on one ring and small aluminum kettle on the other. Set both rings by eye to the same lowish flame. 600 ml of water in each and time to boil.
1st go jetboil pan takes 5min 35s and kettle 6 min 40s.
Without turning rings off refill and start again on opposite rings (warm pans so slightly quicker). Jetboil takes 5min 20s and kettle 5min 30s.
So on average 37s (or more than 10%) quicker with the jetboil pan. Probably do better with a pan designed for a normal sized flame.
Is that worth it for normal cooking with the finned pan being harder to clean?
I also learned that you need to remove the insulated jacket from the jetboil pan before using on the cooker as it melts on the larger flame. Doh!
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N.B. hot water not wasted. Two mugs of tea made and washing up done.

It’s good that we’ve had an experiment. Can’t beat trying things

What about maintaining a simmer temp e.g. 85 degrees for 30 mins?

Anyway b33k34 has convinced me to get an induction hob.

What about maintaining a simmer temp e.g. 85 degrees for 30 mins?

Over to you with that one and your MSR diffuser or similar. Not sure how you'd prove that one without metering the fuel use and I don't think our domestic cooker will go to a low enough heat to summer a small pit like my jetboil copy one.

Particularly as the jetboil type stoves have a pan designed around a particular flame I'm sure they are much more efficient that the standard backpacking stove which matters more when the tinned gas is both expensive and heavy.

@slowol technically the correct experiment was to heat for the same time and measure temperature. How do you know the same boiling state was achieved n each pot and replicate? The. It’s just gcse science with Q = m C dT. The real reason for the kettles was speed of boiling. A lot faster than five minutes if my memory serves.

@TiRed
Technically maybe but given the limitations of domestic cooker etc. I think it's fairly close.
End point is continuous stream of steam coming from spout and fairly repeatable.
Speed is slow as using a low flame to suit the relatively small pans.
Hey it's a reasonable comparison of the relative gas required to boil similar sized kettles!
Be interested to compare results with time temp experiment. My jam thermometer isn't even accurate enough for making jam so I'm out on that one I'm afraid.