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Background: We have a sixteen-year-old Honda FR-V. It's ace, but it's starting to feel like it's on the way out. There's a lot of rust around the rear arches (which makes me worry about structural rust), the clutch makes a horrible creak, the exhaust is blowing (and has been on the verge of failing emissions the last two MOTs), and it needs a wheel bearing, a timing belt, and possibly a brake calliper. And there's a slight oil leak. And the air con doesn't work. And it's covered in scratches and scuffs, some substantial. And it's eaten some of my CDs.
I reckon the cambelt and bearing will cost around £500, another £100 or so for a calliper. Clutch probably another £500 if it's the release bearing, maybe double that if it needs a whole new clutch. Although it's been creaking for years and still works fine. But still, that's starting to look like a lot of money, and that's before we talk about potential welding work.
But.
We really like it. And have no desire to get a pay monthly car which will only end up covered in bird poo and child grot anyway.
So do we chuck potentially a couple of grand at a car that could go even more substantially wrong in the next year or so? Or do we cut our losses and upgrade to something more modern, which at the age and mileage we're looking at could come with its own litany of problems?
(I'm not expecting an answer. Just venting. Ta!)
If it's falling apart I'd not bother with getting the cambelt done at all. If it fails so what - sounds like the car is only worth a few hundred in it's current condition anyway.
Wheel bearing - sort that.
Clutch - if you're going to replace the release bearing pop a new clutch in anyway. Most of the cost is the labour to get the gearbox out.
Brake Caliper - what makes you think it needs replacing.
Exhaust - will probably be just one section. Let it fail it's next MOT then replace if needed. Unless it starts sounding like a rally car!
The rust would be my big concern - Honda's of this vintage do like to rust!! Has it had any advisories for rust. Don't go spending loads chasing rust on a car that's worth sod-all.
Run it till it properly breaks, but put money aside towards a new car in the mean-time.
I'll also add - if you are Midlands based then these guys are the absolute dogs-what-nots when it comes to Honda's. Their main market in the performance end but they do do bog standard cars too...
Clutch makes a horrible creak: Is it the clutch/release bearing or just the pedal? Clutch could be spendy.
Exhaust is blowing: Patch it. (I thought a blowing exhaust was an MOT fail?)
Wheel bearing: Yep you should do that as it could become a MOT failure
Timing belt: Defo do as it would kill the car (although Muffin Man has a point about it not being worth it)
Brake calliper: It's either binding or it's not
Slight oil leak: Meh!
Air con doesn't work: Have you had it recharged..... might be worth it.
And it's covered in scratches and scuffs, some substantial: Meh!
There's a lot of rust around the rear arches: This is a bit of a killer I think. Welding/repairs are a bit of a lottery.
Not much help i know but I'm a fan of keeping cars as long as possible - mine is 13 years old and done 135k miles but still looks like the day I bought it 11 years ago. Not all cars are made the same (see the £500 Porsche bangernomics thread).
Why would a car go wrong in the next year or so? I bought, at what I'd consider my top limit at £10k, a car to replace my aging Passat and it's great. Can't imagine any issues with it in the next few years. Bought from a reputable dealer with warranty (now expired) and all the service paperwork. I don't know how people manage to screw it up and end up with sheds, I really don't.
My son bought a Golf the other week too. It'll go on to 150K+ I reckon, like the Passat did.
Hondas and other Japanese cars are usually a decent bet second hand.
Definitely take the point about the cambelt not really being worth doing - trouble is, we only have the one car, so we need to be able to trust it. If it goes pop, we're stuck!
Calliper - feels like it's sticking, but I can't feel any heat coming off it when I stop. The other side went a couple of years ago is what's making me suspect it.
Wheel bearing - yeah we'll deffo get that done if we don't bin it, standard wear and tear innit.
Clutch - tbh unless it starts slipping I'd probably just leave it until it does, but again, it's our only car, two kids... Needs to be reliable.
Rust is the killer though. There were advisories for the front and rear sub-frames last time around, plus the arches... I reckon it's getting towards the end, even if we get another year out of it.
Probs need to figure out how much we need to spend to get something decent!
Calliper - feels like it's sticking, but I can't feel any heat coming off it when I stop.
If a caliper is sticking you might get heat in the wheel due to the pad not retracting - that said I had to have one replaced earlier this year as it wouldn't retract all the way when new pads were fitted.... but there was no heat in the wheel and it passed the MOT fine.
If you do change get something that isn't going to rust - mechanical bits can be replaced but bodywork is expensive.
Rust is the killer though. There were advisories for the front and rear sub-frames last time around, plus the arches... I reckon it's getting towards the end, even if we get another year out of it.
It certainly will be.
I had a 2007 Civic Type R up until last August. I'd had it 4 years and to the untrained eye it looked great - but the rust got it in the end.
The rear subframe was shot and even using a pattern one (not genuine Honda) the bill to replace would have been nearly £1000.00.
Rust had also taken hold within the boot - I lifted all the boot carpets out and poked a screwdriver straight through it. This was the trigger for me to sell it to a breaker.
If you've got a rare classic you spend the cash and look happy. With everyday cars it's just not worth it.
As for reliability - it will be the thing you haven't thought about that will leave you stranded one day! 😬
We had a frv until a few months back. The dealer I bought it off said it had had a new clutch a few months back and that on a FRV this was quite a big job - can’t remember if there was a cross member or something which made it a pita.
Normally I would always advocate fixing a car that you like - yes, repairs are expensive, but so are new cars. And old ones are still expensive but may also have problems you don't know about.
However, if it's rusty, it's time.
Yeah I feel like the rust is a sign tbh. So now I'm going down the rabbit hole of which engines are most reliable, what is least likely to rust, what the Mrs doesn't think is too gompy... That's my weekend sorted!
There were advisories for the front and rear sub-frames last time around, plus the arches
Probably time then. TBH, if the subframes are going it's probably already technically gone. (Depending how generous the advisory was. I've seen it go both ways!)
Run it till it properly breaks, but put money aside towards a new car in the mean-time.
This. That's what my other half is doing. 23 year old S60. Scraped through it's last MoT. Rear suspension needs doing, engine electrics are on the way out, has a random kangaroo mode in the throttle system (have had it apart, it's too worn to fix properly, too expensive to replace). Couple of intermittent leaks from the cooling system. Exhaust blows from a couple of locations. about a 3rd of the buttons need a "firm press" or holding to keep the thing (whatever it is) working...
She's already got the deposit on a newer car sat there and the first year of payments for finance for a reasonable 3-5 year old car.
On the plus side, it's only needed a couple of times a week. Most of the rest of the time it's either bus, tram or walk. (Or i drive in the shiny new company car.)
Why not have a look for a 'new' Honda FR-V?
I just had a look on Autotrader and there are quite a few which look to be in pretty good shape. Might be worth considering...
I'd say get the essentials fixed, flog it privately to someone who needs a cheap motor for a year or two (they can decide whether to do the belt or not) - and put the proceeds towards a carefully selected newer vehicle.
I wouldn't be spending any more money on that than I had to. It's near death and at 16 years it owes you nowt.
Exhaust is blowing: Patch it.
I've patched several exhausts. Non lasted more than a few weeks.
Mr £500 Porsche here - I'm happy dealing with the issues you've mentioned but it doesn't make financial sense if you are paying someone to do that work for you.
Nah if I had space and expertise and time to do the work myself it'd be different, but I have none of those things.
I did have a look at FR-Vs on Autotrader but tbh I suspect most of them are likely to have similar rust problems, if not now then soon and maybe just less visible. Ours is a 2009 which I think is the last year they were imported. We like it, but not that much.
Annoyingly though everything seems to be SUVs now. Hoping we can track down a nice Focus estate or similar.
A C-Max is closer in style to an FR-V.
Just avoid Ecoboost and early Powershift models.
We just sold our 2011 BMW X1 with 133k on the clock. The bodywork was still in superb condition, not a hint of rust. Chain engine too so no belt to snap.
It went to a mate at work. He buys cheap cars and runs them until they fail. His previous car was a 2009 Passat that was immaculate inside and out so he paid a bit more than usual for it (£1800). Had it a year and had no end of problems, a complete money pit! Luck of the draw at that level unfortunately.
I had a 23 year old Nissan (I'd had since it was 10 months), and the only rust was some starting on the front wheel arch, but I kept on top of it. Underneath was solid as I'd made sure, over the years, it had been undercoated. A rusty subframe will kill off a car as they are a labour intensive job. They aren't expensive as such, but it's a big job to get them off. My wife's Qashqai is 13 years old and clean as a whistle underneath - I check.
So do we chuck potentially a couple of grand at a car that could go even more substantially wrong in the next year or so? Or do we cut our losses and upgrade to something more modern, which at the age and mileage we're looking at could come with its own litany of problems?
I feel your pain - this is the problem I'm facing with my car which is beginning to get a little expensive to sort at services with a host of "well we'll need to sort this thing properly next time around..." advisories.
Stick to what I know and what works or scrap it and buy and new (to me) car with its own list of problems...? And the secondhand car market is an absolute lottery.
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that a pay-monthly model is the least hassle option even if it's an avenue I'd rather not go down. I hate cars.
When do people tend to move on older cars? When they're about to cost a lot to fix must be a popular answer so if you're buying cheap there's a decent chance it'll need some work.
An update, for anyone interested.
We went and looked at a few cars on Saturday. Mostly at a local dealer with a fair range of second hand stock.
C-Max - good space-wise, but a bit meh (the Mrs wasn't keen) and they didn't have any in our budget with the spec and engine we wanted (lots of 1.0 Ecoboosts with the wet belt issues). Also not keen on the interior.
Kuga - better, had one in pretty much the perfect spec but I'm averse to SUVs. It just felt BIG. Plus it was a ten year old 2.0 diesel with only 60k, and only one MOT on the history which made me a little wary.
Qashquai - too small, just didn't feel that nice.
Focus - again, a bit small, didn't feel that nice inside. Estate might have worked but none in stock in our budget.
The night before I'd found a diesel Seat Leon estate at a Seat main dealer. It wasn't on any of the listing sites, I'd just had a look on the dealer site to see what they have 'cos it's literally around the corner. So we went to have a look at that.
And it is spot on. Pretty much exactly what we want spec wise (no heated seats, but I can live with that), full dealer history, used approved with a two year warranty and just within our budget. We both loved it on first sit, it just felt like the nicest place to be out of all of them (bar possibly the Titanium X Kuga) and felt like the most us. Which when you're spending nearly 10k is quite important.
So I took it for a decent test drive yesterday, it drove spot on and I put a deposit down as soon as I got back. We pick it up later this week. We even got £500 trade in for the FR-V, which I'm more than happy with tbh.
What age, spec and mileage did you get for your budget? I've had mine for 9 years and it's been solid
Sounds like a good choice, my old civic was passed on when it got to the point you could pass a tennis ball through the subframe, bodywork looked mint, underneath is was a sh**show!
It's an FR with the 2.0 diesel, so dual climate control, cruise, built in nav etc. And fancy alloys that will probably be scuffed within a week. And it's a 2017 with just under 70k on the clock which, a few years ago I would have said was mental for the price, but actually for a dealer with a warranty it's about right.
Nice car's Leon FR's. My son is currently driving one. He picked up a 64 plate 1.4 TSI from a friend for next to nothing as the engine was very poorly (one piston no compression, other very low - suspected cracked block - owner thrashed it). Son then picked up a low mile replacement engine, and fitted in in two days. Lovely car inside.
When do people tend to move on older cars?
After a good run without any major repairs, if possible.
On the other hand, I only kept one car for about two years because it had large bills at both MOTs and I'd had enough.
Definitely take the point about the cambelt not really being worth doing - trouble is, we only have the one car, so we need to be able to trust it. If it goes pop, we're stuck!
We had the cambelt done on our car and it cost more than the car is nominally worth. But minor niggles aside it's fundamentally sound. In fact the last few years it's had a few garage bills for jobs I CBA to DIY (and a fair few DIY jobs that probably saved a fortune). In fact following that to it's logical conclusion it wasn't "worth" putting 4 decent tyres on it last year!
I've patched several exhausts. Non lasted more than a few weeks.
Depends what you patch it with.
Ours was a triggers broom and in the end I'd even joined what was a slip joint and saddle clamp that had completely rusted out with a sleeve clamp!
Have a look on ebay, a whole exhaust from the cat back was only ~£100, we're now on our 2nd full one, IIRC the pipe lasted 6 years and the back box only 3 (failed at the clamp as explained), but on a car that we thought was nearing scrap that isn't bad.
When do people tend to move on older cars? When they're about to cost a lot to fix must be a popular answer so if you're buying cheap there's a decent chance it'll need some work.
My Berlingo was clearly someone elses uneconomical to repair. It still did 30,000 miles without much spent on it (a door handle, some speakers, and a couple of oil changes). And TBH would have lasted longer but I was pretty merciless with the poor thing.
Run it till it properly breaks, but put money aside towards a new car in the mean-time.
She's already got the deposit on a newer car sat there and the first year of payments for finance for a reasonable 3-5 year old car.
Would have been my option if you'd not already bought something. Unless something goes catastrophically wrong then you end up in a perpetual "well this £600 clutch is 2 months repayments, but then the odds are it'll not break down for another year at least so really I'm saving 10months....." loop.