You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
well yes he did, and to be fair, it is not really that analogous, but I still don’t get any of it, which is the point I’m failing to make
What’s to ‘get’? He was a musician, songwriter and singer who, over the course of many years and albums, covered many different styles. Music, like other art forms, you either like or don’t like, one you start on the ‘get’, or ‘understand’ you’re on a very slippery slope into pretentious twaddle, trying to intellectualise something that is fundamentally about emotions. Genre is another thing that I don’t like, there are many artists whose work gets lumped into a ‘genre’, but doesn’t fit comfortably into, say ‘folk’, or ‘rock’, or ‘jazz’, or whatever, but may have touches of all of those, and more, across a single album, so where does that leave the artist and listener, other than confused? I’m not a jazz fan, by any means, I find much of it self-indulgent, but that’s true of other styles as well, but I love Steely Dan, especially the later albums like Aja, and Donald Fagan’s solo stuff to bits, and there’s a strong jazz element to those recordings. It’s all down to what gets an emotional response that’s important, nothing else, the response I get to a lot of jazz is a sense of irritation and a sort of mental ‘itch’ I just can’t scratch.
Regarding ‘Strange Fruit’, this is the first version of that song I ever heard, late at night on Radio 2, and it was one of the spookiest songs I’d ever heard. Is it jazz, though, or soul?
Christ, every time I see this thread title, I misread it as "jizz".
Your eyes are probably knackered from too much staring at the PC and jazzing off.
I find much of it self-indulgent, but that’s true of other styles as well, but I love Steely Dan, especially the later albums like Aja, and Donald Fagan’s solo stuff to bits
Synchronous! I heard Fagen's Morph The Cat yesterday for the first time. Never *was* a big fan of Steely Dan from a distance, but hearing this hit the spot and some. Some exploring to do... 🙂
I suppose most people have their preferred version of Strange Fruit, for me it was Nina Simone in that I think she did it most credit 😥
The Soft Machine need a big(ger) mention? Breaking boundaries all those years ago. Robert Wyatt and Lyn Dobson especially. Never enjoyed most prog rock so much, and always balked at ELP etc. But the Soft Machine were something else entirely, as their considerable jazz chops proved. This performance truly blew my mind first time I heard it and the more I listen the more it seems to reveal. There's something about such musicians - clearly at the top of their game, locked into a tight duel/dance that goes way beyond jamming.
Not really for short attention spans (and I'm pretty bad for that) but deserves sticking with IMO as it reaps rewards. Has me looking for contemporary bands that even sort of hit this level of musicianship, any suggestions greatly appreciated as only discovered this piece in recent years? It also got me somewhat into National Health and Matching Mole. Mrs Rider likes loads of music from punk to folk, but always leaves the room in a quickness when I play this stuff 🤣 Beyond this, of course, there's 'Zeuhl' music. When I'm politely forced to take my ****ing speakers elsewhere. Thank AKG for cans.
Music, like other art forms, you either like or don’t like, one you start on the ‘get’, or ‘understand’ you’re on a very slippery slope into pretentious twaddle, trying to intellectualise something that is fundamentally about emotions.
Speak for yourself. There aren't many things as ignorant as a person who "knows what I like". What is this ridiculous notion that if you like it, it's good; if you don't, it's not? And all art is self-indulgent - that's the ****ing point of art. Or do you think it's there just to entertain you?
Jazz is a complex mix of rhythms and melodies, timings and impetus - it's hard to play but incredibly enjoyable and always challenging. Sometimes the relationship between the instrument parts is clear-cut, or at least relatively so; sometimes it's a bit harder to hear. You have to remember that, whether you like what is being played or not, the player is highly skilled. That alone can take a piece away from the casual listener, especially so if they don't play. A good way in is usually through the drums - they'll (usually) be the simplest musically, so you just need to identify and follow the beat. The same is true of pretty much all music, by the way. If you concentrate on the drum's cycle, then you'll hear how the rhythm instruments (bass, keys, r.guitar, for example) follow and how they create a link to the melody of the lead instrument - with Miles Davis, that's the trumpet; Coltrane it's the sax. Whatever, it's the instrument carrying the most distinctive melody. The lead instrument often has a vocal quality to it. Coltrane, for instance, often has a really 'vocal' technique to his playing, and I understand he often wrote poems that he would build a piece on. The lead will tend to be the most emotional, or expressive, as the musician is, dare I say it, indulging themselves. But don't forget that what they're playing is supported by the dynamic created by the rest of the band.
As you learn to follow a single rhythm, the roles of the other instruments becomes clearer. You don't have to 'get' it all - how would you? - but you'll start to understand more as you hear the interplay between instruments. As you become more experienced, you'll begin to hear some absolutely amazing routes, arcs and departures that different parts take before converging onto a single beat. That's the beauty of jazz. And it's like life: the more you know, the more you have to appreciate and enjoy. Just remember to allow yourself to be amazed and surprised by what you don't know, rather than pour scorn on it.
I would have thought Bach would be better preparation for maths exams
Traditionally jazz musicians' favourite classical composer. Rules, clarity init? I dunno. This is probably jazz...
Judging by this thread, jazz is another genre where its all about looking backwards to what’s been done long ago
this is kind of what gets me with jazz. There’s a shit load of amazing music but for me it mostly spans from ‘58-‘65 (plus the electric Miles of the early 70’s).
I can just about get the free ornette stuff, and Coltrane post 65 is a bit a push. I saw Elvin Jones (late 80’s iirc which was probably the most inspirational, musically, gig I’ve been to.i had rhythms running through my head for days).
but ‘modern’?
worht checking out lee Morgan - sidewinder, herbie hancock - watermelon man, flamenco sketches & on the corner, Coltrane plays the blues, Duke Pearson - ESP, Getz & Gilberto, Mingus (that live one with Eric dolphy with Fables of Faubus tales & Blues & Roots), Donald Byrd - band and voices. The blue note ones also have awesomez covers...
for modern ‘challenging’ stuff I prefer the classical avant garde (minimalist mostly). Yes, I am that far up my own arse.... 🤣 nice... 👌
Have we had the proper version yet?
Suspect then you need to look at snarky puppy and too many zoos. Or Vulfpeck for a jazz funk crossover
I played in some shit jazz bands when I was young. And there is a lot of shit jazz out there. But there is some great stuff too.
thing is, there is only good music and bad music and the genre or label is unimportant
Donald Fagan and Walter Becker (RIP) wrote some of the most enduring stuff of the last half century, talented and timeless. Both brilliant individually as well.
Giles Peterson from the Cheltenham Jazz festival. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b23fr0#play
I just logged on to the 6 Music website to see if I'd missed owt interesting over the weekend, to be greeted by the words Giles Peterson from the Cheltenham Jazz Festival
I concluded that I'd rather be locked in a shipping container with 20 pissed, hyperactive bagpipe players and a couple more people randomly firing machine guns.
I'd imagine they'd both sound pretty similar
It also seems like you will immediately lose your 6 music listenership credentials unless you're prepared to label Kamasi Washington as a god-like musical deity. Though to me it sounds just like the over-indulgent noodling of any other jazz saxophonist
6 music is shite, it's true
I was in a jazz club in Prague when one of the musicians accidentally turned over two sheets of the music. The results were quite discordant but nobody seemed to mind.
Bagpipes?
how about Sonny Rollins playing Swing low Sweet chariot accompanied by bagpipes.
(one of my favourite jazz tracks, its on the CD ’the cutting edge')
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00p7mh3