Jam and trading sta...
 

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[Closed] Jam and trading standards

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Mrs robbo has set up a business selling jams and chutneys through both shops/cafes and at markets etc. She is willing both directly and indirectly. In order for something to be called a ham our understanding from the regulations is that it must contain 60% minimum sugar content measured on a refractomater. Some of her jams are coming under at around 58% eg a chilli jam so she has relabelled it as chilli chutney in order to adhere to the regulations. The issue is that whenever we check competitors a lot of them aren’t meeting the 60% but still labelling it as Jam.

This isn’t just little home manufacturers as an example in ikea tonight there was a jam labelled as jam with only 52% sugar content.

Anyone work in trading standards who can advise? We contacted our trading standards 2 weeks ago and awaiting a response. Boring topic for a Friday night so I am of to get wasted on whiskey marmalade!

jam regs for reference:


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:06 pm
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Sounds like a right old pickle.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:15 pm
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She is willing both directly and indirectly.

She sounds fun!

so she has relabelled it as chilli chutney in order to adhere to the regulations

Can she call it a preserve, conserve or marmalade instead?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:17 pm
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The issue is that whenever we check competitors a lot of them aren’t meeting the 60% but still labelling it as Jam.

How is it an issue what anyone else is doing?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:20 pm
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Doh damn spelling correction! Thanks for quoting so I can’t make a sneaky edit. I meant selling directly and indirectly!


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:20 pm
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This could get fruity


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:23 pm
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@cougar because we are thinking that are we are misunderstanding the regulations and don’t have to get it over the 60%. Her chilli jam consistently comes out at 58% which means we can’t label it as chilli jam - one shop specifically wants a chilli jam and not a chilli chutney even though it is the same product with a different name!


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:24 pm
 Kit
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What refractometer for measuring the brix of ham? 😉

Labelling standards, sadly, have a habit of not applying to the big guys. In my business (spirits), there are plenty who flout laws on labelling (deliberately or otherwise) and seem to happily get away with it. Kraken Spiced Rum being one particularly brazen example.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:26 pm
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Call it chilli jamz and make a joke a out the regs


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:26 pm
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Can we make this a sticky?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:36 pm
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because we are thinking that are we are misunderstanding the regulations and don’t have to get it over the 60%.

I may have misunderstood then.  Did you contact trading standards to clarify the regs or to complain about other sellers?  I assumed the latter but maybe you meant the former?

In any case - realistically is anyone likely to check?  Can't you just add a bit more sugar, 2% isn't much.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:46 pm
 Kit
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2% isn’t much

It's a whole world of difference between a jam and a chutney dontchaknow!


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:50 pm
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Can we make this a sticky?

To preserve it?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:50 pm
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Trading standards will never know as long as you keep a lid on it.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:55 pm
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🙂 2 % is prob achievable it’s more what do you do for each batch and if you get a batch lower say at 52% then it may be more difficult and because the tomatoes and chilli have natural sugars in it can be difficult to control exactly. Adding more sugar may not enhance the flavour.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:58 pm
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In order for something to be called a ham

A bit of a pig in a poke then?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 9:02 pm
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Can we make this a sticky?

To preserve it?

I prefer conserve...


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 9:02 pm
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How about going underground with it?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 9:04 pm
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 In order for something to be called a ham

When setting up a business in order to bring home the bacon it's important not to tell any porkies otherwise the pigs will be after you.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 9:56 pm
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Crackling at the jokes here, keep trotting them out people...


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 10:04 pm
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You could check the refractometer calibration - 2% is very close to the limit, possibly less than the error in the measurement, so a small error in calibration could be significant. Are you required to provide evidence?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 10:06 pm
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Mikewsmith wins.

O.P. surely you get some level of error/variance?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 10:10 pm
 Esme
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Google Michelle "Clippy" McKenna - she had this same problem.
And her husband is a mountain biker too.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 10:19 pm
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Not sure what the outcome was as I can't find anything more recent, but this article suggests that the minimum sugar content may have been reduced to 50%.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/oct/30/jam-wars-reducing-sugar-britain


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 10:21 pm
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Looks like there was a consultation in 2013, but not sure if it was actually passed into law? i can't find anything relevant on legislation.gov.uk. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/jam-and-similar-products-england-regulations-2013

That Guardian article mentions the "mutual recognition principle". ie if it is legally jam in another EU country, it can also be sold as jam in the UK. So that may apply to the Ikea jam.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 12:05 am
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What I call jam in our cupboard is actually labelled "preserve" and has 57% sugar. I guess that you're aiming a bit higher than my pocket though, could you use "confiture"??


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 6:24 am
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Cheers for the help. Doesn’t look like anything changed after the 2013 consultation. Wales and NI have just updated their regs but still quote a minimum of 60% sugar. Best to stick to the rules. I think it only applies if it is made in the UK so I think the jams with less than 60% in supermarkets are imported.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 6:47 am
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Move to either the Isle of Man, Guernsey or Jersey 🙂


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 7:07 am
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Call it a jam pickle!!

2% tolerance allowed surely and don’t forget the uncertainty of measurement factor!!


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 1:06 pm
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...when you sick so sad you cry, and in crying cry a whole leopard from your eye...


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 4:47 pm
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Surely you can turn this to your advantage - either brand it as "reduced sugar" so all the biffers think it'll be good for them or make "Fruitier than jam!" your slogan, and sell the fact that it has a higher content of what gives it the flavour.  Sure you can come up with something highbrow that will suit your outlet.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 7:36 pm
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“ Sure you can come up with something highbrow that will suit your outlet.”

ARTISAN Cham?


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 8:12 pm
 poly
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The regulations refer to soluble dry matter >60% rather than sugar >60%.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/3120/schedule/1/made


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 8:46 pm
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You could check the refractometer calibration – 2% is very close to the limit,

You think the refractometer is jamming? That curd be the problem


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 12:18 am
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No whey.


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 12:21 am
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“ Sure you can come up with something highbrow that will suit your outlet.”

"English Rose"? Everyone knows that's the jam


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 6:49 am
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I have a mate who is a TSO and more than happy to run it past him if you wish.


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 7:15 am
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@theotherjonv. That would be good thanks.

We have made a batch that meets the sugar content now but only just. I think in the future it will just have to be called chilli chutney to avoid any issues in case the sugar content isn’t quite there.


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 9:28 am
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I would just call it jam. I can’t imagine that this will ever get inspected and/or if it is it will be seen as in the margin of error (17 years in regulators -non jam- and central govt policy)


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 10:14 am
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Just dodge the regs and plead ignorance, though make sure you have some buscuits ready if they come round to check, something like a chutney dodger should be nice


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 10:17 am
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Robbo, can you pm me with the message you want passed on and I will do.

From a slightly associated area, I'd think you don't necessarily need to check every batch because fruit or chillis are natural products and subject to variability. Making a few batches to the same recipe and checking them to show conformance, and then checking on a regular basis (maybe every ten batches once you have a baseline) might be enough.


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 2:42 pm
 aP
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 Drac
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Sounds like you need to pimp, pimp the jam pimp it up.


 
Posted : 17/11/2018 5:47 pm

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