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In 10 years I've had 2 cars, a focus diesel and a kia sportage. If I could have afforded a decent sportscar in a sensible price range the f type was high up on the list. Maybe like many it was a brand I was looking at for a 'retirement' present to myself
I suppose I get it, the need for to target different segment - retirees is not sustainable for a business, lets hope the rebrand is truely something awesome and unique and they don't produce something that just looks like all the other electric suvs out there (like that lotus up there...)
I still think the ad is absolute trash, and they really need an exceptional product now, as jaGUar has gone from top of my aspirational wish list to the bottom based on that tripe
To all the people saying they love Jaguars, or that Jags should should be petrol saloons or coupes, not diesel or electric or SUV...
TBF I don't think anyone is saying that, not many people at least, mostly it's just got the 'anti-wokes' in a bit of a huff cos they don't really understand the world anymore, which I think was half the point, if Nigel is unimpressed that is a win.
...how many new Jaguars have you actually bought in the last 10 years?
Is the main point, nobody is buying Jags anymore, whether it's due to a lack of reliability or the price is kind of irrelevant, to carry on doing the same thing would be stupid. Good luck to them I guess...
Artists impressions here
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/exclusive-jaguar-launch-large-electric-limo-replace-xj
That looks like 5 mins of design by intern using Ai. Woeful.
But, yeah... massive wheels so its current, how big are yours? these are 24's...
And nametag on tyres because Racecar.
I understand why Jaguar thought a re-brand was necessary given the demographic* of the people who currently buy the cars they make now, and Jaguar also completely understand that those folks are unlikely to want to buy the cars that they're (and every other car manufacturer) going to be making 10-20 years from now.
I also get why that demographic, despite the fact that they don't want the jaguar cars of the future, think and feel they're entitled to get all hufty about the fact that the world is moving on - because for the last 50 years they've had the world pandering to their needs and they don't like that it's changing .
*generally white, generally men, of a certain age and status (perceived or otherwise)
I do wonder why not just a new brand whilst keeping Jaguar going for a bit. Like how Volvo has Polestar (or did not sure if its still the case).
The level of rebranding does seem to be effectively new brand levels for the intended target audience but still has the downside of annoying those who liked the previous style.
Like how Volvo has Polestar
Polestar isn't a new brand.
Can't work out if I am a total hypocritic here. Absolutely fine with the Jaguar rebrand, but find the whole BYD "Build Your Own Dreams" branding so vomit inducingly cringe that I wouldn't consider one of their cars in a bazillion years.
Agree that repositioning was needed. And obviously with no actual new product yet, it was going to be a bit vague. But what they've done is very 1990s... a mix of the launch of the Smart Car brand, a bit of Benetton, plenty of Jean Paul Gaultier... that may well all be very well targeted at a certain demographic (people in their 40/50s who feel they are young but have forgotten everything before Y2K?)... but it doesn't work for me at all, yet... let's see what they build on their new scorched ground...
.
Polestar isn’t a new brand.
Not now but originally it was a minor racing/performance tuning brand which Volvo brought and then used for their EVs.
So, they're dropping the large limos to replace them with... a large limo.
In the meantime, a shit rebrand - crap new logo, mystical dreams woo woo corporate "what we stand for" statement, and a silly advert.
Slow news day?
I do wonder why not just a new brand whilst keeping Jaguar going for a bit
The Top Gear article the OP linked to claims Jaguar haven't been consistently profitable for a long time, so perhaps a complete restart/ repositioning was thought in order, not just a rebrand with the same/ similar cars.
But what they’ve done is very 1990s… a mix of the launch of the Smart Car brand, a bit of Benetton, plenty of Jean Paul Gaultier…
Good comment, so maybe this is what retro looks like now?
Capturing the style and energy of the target market's formative years, which they probably remember fondly.
Rory Sutherland’s take on this was interesting. The basic thesis is:
1) We are inevitably going electric
2) It’s actually now very easy to engineer power, refinement and quietness into electric cars. These were traditionally the values of luxury cars but now a Honda / Kia does all that. How do you convince people to spend 4-10x the price of a Kia?
3) If cars are all broadly similar, the point of differentiation may be styling, brand values and exclusivity
4) There is likely to by a push by all manufacturers to define their brand very clearly in the way a fashion house would.
Although it’s often middle aged people buying these things, the sense of ‘cool’ is defined by the younger generation. To me, it makes sense that Jag look to appeal to younger tastes, even if they are not expecting to sell loads to that demographic.
plenty of Jean Paul Gaultier… Capturing the style and energy of the target market’s formative years
.... which bit, the Eurotrash era?
This is nothing like Gaultiers fashion, its like a gen-z intern googled Gaultier...
It's bad, really bad.
but find the whole BYD “Build Your Own Dreams” branding so vomit inducingly cringe that I wouldn’t consider one of their cars in a bazillion years.
TBF they know that’s a problem. The first cars imported still had the full “Build Your Dreams” logo but they quickly got the message and changed to BYD. The trouble they now have is that nobody will ever want to have to explain to friend/family what BYD stands for…
If I've got £200k to blow on a Jaaaaag, it's not going to be an EV
it'll be something like this:-
1963 Jaguar E-Type Green Manual Right Hand Drive in United Kingdom - For Sale | Car & Classic
I’ve always been a massive Jaguar fan (x-type and XE excepted) and don’t give a shit about the rebrand.
I’m prepared to judge the car, not the marketing.
Jags have always been about grace, pace and space and EV’s easily provide the space and the pace. I’m hoping they lean heavily into the grace aspect and produce something beautiful.
…. which bit, the Eurotrash era?
Fifth Element.
Fifth Element.
Oh yeah, forgot about that... Intentionally ironic and ridiculous, that'll sell well.
Should've kept it bang on target with a shagtastic Austin Powers angle...
I’m prepared to judge the car, not the marketing.
Fair. But there is no new car. I think that's what irks people the most... without any actual product this has to be pure marketing without even a nod to an actual car. Whatever form this marketing took, it could only be disappointing and alienating when there is zero substance. It comes across as aimless fluff. So why not hold off on the market resetting 'til there is a least a concept car to judge and to link this new approach to?
New car info coming 4th December-ish I believe
Oh, by contrast... look at the stuff Renault are doing... completely over the top marketing wise... but each campaign has a planned new car, that you can see mock ups of etc, at its centre, amongst all the bright colours, fashionable people, and brand positioning.
Well they sell very few cars, and they lost money on nearly all of them. So there's not really anything to lose. Unless all the people who claim to aspire them are going to commit to buying one in the near future.
Friend has an F-pace. can't sell it. Well he obviously can but he isn't desperate enough to take the hit yet.
Well the marketing has got everyone talking - so job done. As for the new cars, wait and see l guess.
personally I’ve never like Jag, the XJS is an especially awful design, and has a much grace as a brontosaurus.
as for Porsche, their SUVs saved them from the brink
Oh, by contrast… look at the stuff Renault are doing… completely over the top marketing wise…
The new Renault 5 looks fantastic!
I like the look of the Autocar sketches. They're not likely to be anywhere near what they really look like but I like the styling. They do sound far too BIG though. Why ARE cars so damn big now? Do designers not drive or park anywhere?
Should have just ended it and started a new brand.
But isn’t that what they’ve effectively done?
Not quite, as they've continued to use the name.
To all the people saying they love Jaguars, or that Jags should should be petrol saloons or coupes, not diesel or electric or SUV, how many new Jaguars have you actually bought in the last 10 years?
Yep Jaguar won't care about the opinions of people who don't buy their cars. People me included sometimes have fond thoughts of what a brand ought to be. Raleigh bikes for example.
The Top Gear article the OP linked to claims Jaguar haven’t been consistently profitable for a long time
IIRC they hadn't made an operating profit for something like 35 years when they finally merged with Land Rover. And JLR promptly made a much smaller profit...Dunno whats happened it the 20 years since i left, but from the outside looking in, it's not been pretty viewing.
But then, lately not much has been in the auto industry.
Just read some of the Autocar article, and came across this:
At this stage, it’s understood that the saloon only has buttons on the steering wheel, with a slick wraparound digital display behind the steering wheel serving as the main infotainment interface.
A smaller touchscreen on the centre console, meanwhile, handles key functions such as the climate control and audio. The centre console will either extend through the length of the cabin to divide the rear seat into two separate areas or be of a shortened design to give a more conventional five-seat layout.
If I had the money, and was in the market for a large saloon car, that is an immediate hard no from me! I won’t have anything to do with any vehicle that relies on a fully touch-screen system for driver input.
It is illegal for me to use a mobile phone in my car when driving, so this should be illegal as well. It’s distracting and downright dangerous - I have driven cars with touchscreens for all driver input, and I absolutely hate it, trying to dig down through successive screens to find a demist control, when the screen is in the middle of the dashboard, and you’re driving and attempting to maintain control of the car at 70 on a motorway is ****ing stupid. [img] 
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Yep, the wife's xc40 has most of the climate controls ect on the screen and I find it a struggle to use while on the move. No such problems in my 13 year old Caddy though!
I'm in total agreement with that...form over function and it is detrimental. Actual button or sliders or dials that need held is more sensible as those can be done by feel without taking eyes off the road.
Pulling over to make the adjustments is probably the solution, but isn't always possible to do that safely.
I see your points, and whilst I tend to agree with where you’re coming from, I don’t see it as a net win for society. All it does is further feed and stoke the fires of the culture war bullshit.
Well it made me laugh, found it fun and entertaining. Fun is the lesser stoker of culture wars than what many do which is resort to insults and sanctimony.
Continuing with the touch screen digression I went from hundreds of buttons (Volvo V70) to everything on touch screen (Volvo V90), and I can confirm next car change I will be looking for hundreds of buttons again. So I won't be buying a Jaguar........
If I had the money, and was in the market for a large saloon car, that is an immediate hard no from me
But evidently you haven't, and you aren't. So it matters not. And yes, many people hate touchscreen controls, but look at all the Teslas you never see driving around...
This thread, as many have pointed out, highlights the exact problem with Jag that they're trying to distance themselves from, and kind of flies with what the plan was.
To put it simply, everyone is talking about them and they've riled the sort of people they would like to distance themselves from. The average age of their buyer was in the 50s, a demographic well served by this forum 'Grace, space and pace' was sold to 'male, stale and pale'
Loads of people who would never buy a Defender were furious at the direction of the new Defender. Look how that one played out
Something needed to be done, it seems drastic, and yes, it's a gamble, but at least this way they stand a chance of not disappearing into the history books.
And as for the logo? Yeah, the case is grating, but from a design POV it's pretty obvious why they've done it.
TBH the new ones going to be a ‘limousine’ so who cares if your drivers got push buttons or swipe 🙂
And many more eyes will be on the launch of the new car. I hope it’s good.
Leaked images came out this morning
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-concept-leaked-full-ahead-reveal-tonight
Is that not the car that Parker used to drive Miss Penelope around in?
I quite like it, in a "I'd never have one in a million years not even if I were as rich as Elon Bezos" kind of way.
Very thunderbirds. I predict the brand is going bankrupt in 5 years - they cannot be expecting to sell those in any sort of quantity
they cannot be expecting to sell those in any sort of quantity
They probably don’t need to. It’s a headline grabbing concept car to soften the world up for the watered down version which will replace the i-pace to compete with the Q4 / i4 / EV6 / Ioniq5 / Polestar etc. etc.
That 50k-ish to £70k-ish premium mid sized crossover sector that seems to be the EV sweetspot for most manufacturers.
The pink-panther mobile is just another stage in the marketing for that ultimate end product
I read somewhere that they were going up market. As in competing with Bentley. Selling fewer cars for much higher profits
Unveiling mockups of the Dubai cruiser well before anything that'll be a fleet car makes sense, especially as they have months and months ahead of them with nothing new apart from vapourware to talk about. No need to even pretend to be grounded in the real would just yet.
The back looks like a Quatt heat pump.
Think 4 door luxo barge, Porsche Taycan competition. That's their first proper launch anyway.
Those press 'leaks' are design language concepts to soften the crowd.
I quite like it. A bit retro futuristic. Not sure about the front.
That's a Chrysler 300c, no?
Looks quite mad. Imagine the price of a tyre
Small part of me wants to buy one of of the last proper ones, but I don't think I really would.
Is that not the car that Parker used to drive Miss Penelope around in?
"Yes, m'lady"
A large 2+2 I understand, not luxo barge.
****ing ridiculous. The World is boiling, the roads are clogged and it won't fit in a parking space.
Good riddance when they fold if that is the best that they can offer.
they cannot be expecting to sell those in any sort of quantity
They expect to sell exactly zero - it's a concept car only...
Personally I like it.
The first production car is a four door saloon.
I like it a lot. Well done, Jaguar. Or JaGUar...whatever. The car looks great.
Thats a one and only, truly original, Jaguar pink from head to toe.
Panther approved
Copy Nothing, eh?
looks like a chrysler crossfire from the rear.
plus why the massive bonnet that looks long enough to house a straight 12 engine, when its electric?
Doesnt look great to me - but the most of the time the real car ends up looking nothing like the concept, so thats probably a good thing.
Is it available in dark blue?
The car looks great
but still a concept car. Very likely it'll be massively dulled down by the time it hits the road, and by that point it looks like its just a big electric XK and they always sold so well...
IMO, the only concept car that managed to make production and match (or possibly exceed) expectations was the original Ford Ka.
The interior looks awful. It looks like a designer bathroom.
johndoh
IMO, the only concept car that managed to make production and match (or possibly exceed) expectations was the original Ford Ka.
Original Audi TT changed very little from concept to production as well.
Original Audi TT changed very little from concept to production as well.
Ahh yes, agreed.
This leak would have been better if it weren't pink.
Having your first car used to be about freedom ….. You don’t need that freedom if all your pals are online in their bedrooms too
You can write it off dismissively like that.
But the reality is that because housing is in short supply, more of it is in town center apartments. And while any electric car thread on STW descends into "but where am I going to charge it on the street", a lot of people are just being sensible and not having a car they don't need in the first place. I was looking the other day and whilst "car ownership" has actually gone up (cars per person), it's way more polarized. Moving from everyone having one, some households having two. To lots of households having 2 or 3, but a growing number having none at all.
The World is boiling, the roads are clogged and it won’t fit in a parking space
Well yes, it's massive. So making use of next year's EV Range Rover platform then. Or an early testbed for that? Presumably the Pink monster doesn't really need to sell. That's what the LR side of JLR is for.
Physical mock-ups look much better than the sketches. It’s doubling down on two trends that are a worry though… not being able to see/connect directly with the world around you, obviously a concern for cyclists… and light arrays that make it much harder for other road users to judge your position/distance. Pairs of lights please, especially on the rear.
No rear window? How can people see when you're giving them the middle finger! 🙂
I suspect if you’re driving one of these then you’ll have people to do that for you.
History tells us that 2+2 does not equal 4 pairs of legs though. Don’t think I’d be happy sitting in the passenger seat beside my driver