[Closed] Jacob Rees-Mogg

I don't think sticking to your religious beliefs is bigotry

It is if you pick and chose the bits of your religion that lead you to discriminate against others or intefere inothers lives.

this is the bit about me you seem unable to understand. Yes I abhor religion for the damage it does to individuals and humanity as a whole - but I would never let that influence my actions towards individuals because that would go against my personal moral values which is to treat all equally.

another example of my bigotry towards the religious. I donate regularly to my local sikh temple - because they use that money to feed the homeless of Edinburgh. I also have given food to my local Presbyterian church for their foodbank

andyrm

and definitely not be shouting people down or recklessly banding offensive terms like "bigot" about just because someone has a different belief or viewpoint.

~which is what mefty attempts to do to me - plenty of times he has called me a bigot on this thread despite no evidence whatsoever. I am not sure mefty actually understands what bigotry and hypocrisy are.

We should be respectful of alternative views, regardless of whether we agree with them,

Not if they are bigoted. Do and believe what you want as long as you don't harm others or seek to treat them in a lesser manner. That's fine.

mefty - Member

Sometimes those rights will come into conflict as with gay marriage. We as a society need to find a compromise to assuage both sides.

No, we don't. Gay people shouldn't have to accept being second class citizens in order to make religious people (who will not be negatively affected in any way by them getting married) happy. Not all conflicts merit a compromise. What's the compromise on a religious person's belief in female genital mutilation vs the female's right not to be mutilated?

(in the case of gay marriage, the solution is simple; gay people should be able to get married, and in return, we don't force religious people into gay marriages. Deal?)

For clarification...

bigotry
?b???tri/
noun
intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
"the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry"
synonyms: prejudice, bias, partiality, partisanship, sectarianism, discrimination, unfairness, injustice;

Voting against gay marriage is literally text book bigotry.

which is what mefty attempts to do to me - plenty of times he has called me a bigot on this thread despite no evidence whatsoever. I am not sure mefty actually understands what bigotry and hypocrisy are.

I haven't actually. I said you have bigotted views of those of faith, I then produced something you had written to support my judgement, I should perhaps add that on the original thread it was pretty much universally regarded as bigotry. You are on the other hand are probably back to being the most frequent offender of what andyrm identifies.

I don't think you have twigged yet that the these two things might not be entirely unrelated.

This STW thread was brought to you with the word bigot, and the number 69.

Voting against gay marriage is literally text book bigotry.

A text book for five years olds.

Relgious opposition to homosexuality has a very simple and understandable basis. You can't procreate so the population would die out. The various religious texts were written thousands of years ago and have stood the test of time outstandingly well. I as a Christian can cut them some slack on this issue and take a non-literal interpretation. The fact its prominently mentioned in all the major religious texts proves it has been a fact of life for as long as we've been around.

TJ the Bible describes homsexuality as an "abomination" as such its the strongest condemnation of any act.

Your attacks on me do not become you. Your understanding of what a bigot and hypocrite are is sadly lacking.

I have never treated someone less favourably because of their religion nor would I want to. thats what bigotry is. I have never pretended to moral values I do not act by. thats what hypocrisy is

You on the other hand have made continual personal attacks on me. Have I made anything like the same attacks on you?

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Jamba

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Romans 1:26-27
“ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.[

and in christianity an abomination is strong criticism to say the least. IIRC there are ( depending whos interpretations and which version of the bible) around 20 odd passages about homosexuality all condemning it

Edit - did you edit your post?

When I was an adviser I was just like you, very good at giving advice, very bad at following it myself.

Have you found any Buddhist friends yet?

Angela Merkel voted against gay marriage.

Well according to the posts above she's a bigot then in just the same was as is JRM, the 35% of French who voted for Len Pen and the 38% of the Irish who voted against same sex marriage. Or maybe not.

Anything in the Quran about this, TJ?

jambalaya - Member
Relgious opposition to homosexuality has a very simple and understandable basis.

Simple and understandable it is.
Moral, ethical or acceptable to intelligent and fair people, it isn't.

TJ yes we are agreeing. It's described as an abomination, ghe strongest possible condemnation and IMO for good reason when you understand when the religious texts where written.

@matty it was moral and ethical and intelligentl at the time it was written.

Legalising same sex marriage has a number of knock on effects including the ability to adopt children. As such its clear to me why it's such a controversial issue.

Ta Jamba - I misunderstood you

CFH - IIRC Islam condemns homosexuality in similar ways. I don't know if its in the Quran or from the old testament which as you know is also one of islams texts. I really should have another go at reading the quran.

I have not heard any UK muslim politicians condemning homosexuality in the same sort of terms tho tho - indeed Bashir Ahmed fought for equal rights for all. Kahn is a promoter of tolerance as well is he not?

Causing harm to others for no reason has never been moral.

I'm going to have to quote the dictionary again, aren't I.

moral
ADJECTIVE

Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour.

strongest possible condemnation and IMO for good reason when you understand when the religious texts where written.

The person who wrote them was an immoral bigot.

Goodnight folks. another day of looking after edinburghs frail elderly starts at 7 am

Before I go that reminds me of another example of my bigotry towards the religious. I personally went to a great deal of effort to take someone to a Roman catholic funeral. No one else on the staff was prepared to do so. It was important to that person in my care so I personally spent my time and effort to take them. I also have often taken people in my care to church. why? because it is important to them

Shouldn't Christians give up their worldly goods? Share what they dont immediately need?

They tend to kinda just do what suits them to be honest. Which is fine - that's what most of us do. We just don't have to jump through hoops in order to justify it. It is utterly hilarious reading religionists justify their hypocrisies.

I have not heard any UK muslim politicians condemning homosexuality in the same sort of terms tho tho -

As JRM? Your homework is to find an instance of him doing that, to give you a head start he didn't speak in any of the debates. All I can see is that he isn't proud of the gay marriage vote because it upset many of their core voters. So I am very excited to see your evidence.

A text book for five years olds

Seriously how is a religious person being opposed to homosexuality and wishing to treat them differently not discrimination and bigotry?

what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]Anything in the Quran about this, TJ?

that shalt ignord the cpts risible whatabouterry

Happy to say Islamic thought is bigoted towards homosexuals

that shalt ignord the cpts risible whatabouterry

Give him a Labour politician in Bury who's Muslim and bigoted against homosexuals and he just might explode in a sticky white mess.

[quote=deadlydarcy ] It is utterly hilarious reading religionists justify their hypocrisies.

I quite like the argument that its bigoted to object to them being bigots

its more credible than most of what they believe and logically more sound 😉

I quite like the argument that its bigoted to object to them being bigots

Anyone been caught working 7 days recently?

I quite like the argument that its bigoted to object to them being bigots

That sounds hilarious, please direct me to it so I can have a laugh.

I think that's what I always struggle with most... Some religious people are completely happy to pick and choose what parts of their own faith they will pay any heed to and will disregard chunks of it. But if anyone [i]else[/i] chooses to disregard parts or all of that faith, that's unacceptable.

I mean, the basic issue of partial practice of faith is a tricky one by itself... Though completely understandable. But holding other people up to the standards of your faith and expecting to have it influence their lives even though they're not believers themselves, while considering it acceptable to deviate from those standards yourself... I can't see how anyone can justify that?

I can't see how anyone can justify that?

Indeed.

Dictionary to the rescue again!

hypocrisy
[hi-pok-ruh-see]
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

I don't think it's that simple, it often seems more like a disconnect with reality. It's a double standard but not necessarily a deliberate one

When threads start to go off the rails it's always a relief when the odd pearl brightens the mood

Yes I abhor religion for the damage it does to individuals and humanity as a whole - I donate regularly to my local sikh temple - because they use that money to feed the homeless of Edinburgh. I also have given food to my local Presbyterian church for their food bank

On top of that I have to say that I admire folk who have the ability to take a principled stance against the likes of JRM while at the same time providing practical support to organisations that are more strident advocates of the very things that are objected to. Few could balance such moral contradictions successfully, if at all. A lesson for us all perhaps?

I have never treated someone less favourably because of their religion nor would I want to. thats what bigotry is. I have never pretended to moral values I do not act by. thats what hypocrisy is

Right.......

Geetee - I loathe and despise religion and the religious, I believe all people who believe in god(s) are feeble minded.
I think the religious, religion and belief in god as an incredibly regressive, negative, dangerous and harmful mental illness. It is a force of incredible harm and holds back the human race.

Its not biogotry.

A lesson for us all perhaps?

Anyone been caught working 7 days recently?

I went for a bike ride, but I'm pretty sure my cycling clothes are mixed fibres, so I'm still screwed.

Browsing STW on my phone today ( no blocking add on) I saw this gem from THM " Few could balance such moral contradictions successfully, if at all. A lesson for us all perhaps? " in a clear sarcastic tone

Which just shows with delicious irony the complete lack of understanding of ethics and morals he displays.

When one actually understands the issues and understands ethics and morals its easy to see there is no moral contradiction here at all. Its only when one has no moral conviction of your own substituting an unthinking adherence to an archaic text for thinking that anyone would find a moral contradiction here.

You see I firmly believe ALL discrimination is wrong. Anyone with any morals would agree this is so. To treat anyone as less worthy because of their sex, sexuality, religion or anything else is simply immoral and wrong.

Those who defend discrimination on the grounds of religious belief show their complete lack of any morals.

I find it remarkable that anyone can hold a belief based upon (reworked) fiction? However i am happy for anyone to hold a view provided it does not opress another human being - ooops thats a lot of religions.... and there in lies the problem.

I have a friend who is a Mormon, nice bloke and a nice family. He works really hard and treats people well. He however takes significant risks in life and business but fundamentally his view is God will dig him out of the shit - so far this has not worked out
£1m house in negative equity
Spends way beyond his means
Son is Gay (mormon issue not an oldmanmtb issue)
He is battling a terminal disease
He still goes to work 60 hours a week and does 20 hours with the Church

And he still believes divine intervention will come

One day thats all going to collapse - this folks is a worked example of why religion is bad.

He works really hard and treats people well. He however takes significant risks in life and business but fundamentally his view is God will dig him out of the shit - so far this has not worked out

This is 2019…

And it mostly stinks…

I was hoping that someone was going to confirm that ITV News fell hook line and sinker for a newsthump/onion/rochdaleherald or similar post.

That's not going to happen is it?

Glad I'm not in his employ, cos if I was I'd politely tell him to eff off. With single spaces after a fullstop. And as a scientist, Id have to decide between conventional SI units, or use totally ridiculous imperial variants, like bushels per fortnight or furlongs per sidereal day.

He is correct about check your work. The rest is b******s.

Id have to decide between conventional SI units,

No the wise man would use this

I'm riding 1000.9099 brontosauri tomorrow to work.

How long before these *ock wombles decide that we are going back to pounds, shillings and pence.
It will make the millennium bug look like a walk in the park for the IT industry.

CFH – IIRC Islam condemns homosexuality in similar ways. I don’t know if its in the Quran or from the old testament which as you know is also one of islams texts. I really should have another go at reading the quran.

Don't bother - it was the dullest thing I've ever read, with the possible exception of the Old Testament and Das Kapital.

I always find it remarkable that such texts have had such great influence on civilisation.

JP

islam condems homosexuali9ty in the same way christianity does. Old testament I believe

Don’t bother – it was the dullest thing I’ve ever read, with the possible exception of the Old Testament and Das Kapital.

You shouldn't try The Silmarillion.

No mention of gays, though, IIRC.

The lunatics are truly running the asylum now.

The lunatics are truly running the asylum now.

They are rich so the correct term to use is eccentric not lunatic.

Imperial units, what century is he in?  Does he not realise that most of the young staff won't have a clue about inches, lbs and, etc.  That could be scope for a royal cock up.

A grammar Nazi who believes he socially better than anyone else too, imagine having someone that boring in a group.

@Sandwich, that is ace.

Don’t bother – it was the dullest thing I’ve ever read, with the possible exception of the Old Testament and Das Kapital.

You shouldn’t try The Silmarillion.

I'd read all of those back to back before picking up "Infinite Jest" ever again.

As for Rees-Mogg, his grammar and style strictures are just another affectation. Just like his stereotypical posh drawl, canvassing with his nanny and his pseudo courtesy, they're there as a distraction from his vicious and self-serving political agenda. Best disregarded IMO.

He was at our local fete recently with his children, riding on a Thomas the Tank engine that was doing rounds of the village. One of our friends suggested paying the driver to keep going indefinitely.

JP

A grammar Nazi who believes he is socially better than anyone else.  Imagine having someone that boring in a group.

You rang, m'lud.

You're only half way there.

Imperial units, what century is he in? Does he not realise that most of the young staff won’t have a clue about inches, lbs and, etc. That could be scope for a royal cock up.

Seeing as the UK formally adopted the SI system in 1968 and JRM was born the following year, this is not nostalgia for a time before metrication. What it is, is anachronistic pretension.

I have no idea why this is tolerated, but seeing as his local council is now, as of the May council elections, controlled by the Lib Dem’s, when the inevitable election happens we can hope we don’t have to put up with it for much longer.

Most bad managers do this sort of micro-management - it's a way of hiding how awful they are at their jobs.
Once you've fired all the people who argue back at you for being a micro-managing tosspot, you can fill your office with all the weaselly little shits who actually tolerate your crap or find it charmingly twee and they're the sort of people who won't argue back when you're tanking the economy or fiddling your expenses.

Was pleased to see his equally awful sister taken to pieces on Twitter when she wondered why the EU had given her an iPad and suggested it was example of profligate waste. Apparently it hadn't occurred to her to do any work with it.

Was pleased to see his equally awful sister taken to pieces on Twitter when she wondered why the EU had given her an iPad and suggested it was example of profligate waste. Apparently it hadn’t occurred to her to do any work with it.

Aye, when she complained about the number of votes in the EP, the twitter pile on suggesting she might’ve used her iPad to prepare was a sight to behold.

How long before these *ock wombles decide that we are going back to pounds, shillings and pence.

Better yet, let’s get rid of science from the classrooms, and replace with alchemy!

The man is a first-class, unmitigated ****.

"Rees Mogg bans investing in schools"

I've been an advocate of a new Spitting Image series for a few years.

I'm now of the opinion that the current round of reality TV news *is* the new Spitting Image series.

A grammar Nazi who believes he socially better than anyone else too

Not a proficient GN either, refers to The Magna Carta, any fule kno (or half way decent lawyer) that the definite article is not required when referring to that charter.

any fule kno

Molesworth!

TJ I'm a man of a certain age.

Aye, when she complained about the number of votes in the EP, the twitter pile on suggesting she might’ve used her iPad to prepare was a sight to behold.

Ahh Twitter, the modern day equivalent of scribbling on a toilet wall.

Rees-Mogg is genuinely a tit, but people advising him as well as the toad himself will have realised long ago that a lot of the great unwashed lap this faux gentlemanly crap up by the bucket load. Well, you'd be daft to deviate from a winning formula, so the affectations are ramped up and he becomes more of a self parody day by day.

The really disappointing thing is that the electorate either can't see through it (most) or don't want to (some). You get the politicians you deserve.

I'm exclusively using metric units now as well as boycotting Wetherspoon's, Dyson etc.

I’m exclusively using metric units now as well as boycotting Wetherspoon’s, Dyson etc.

Glad to see you’re prepared to go the extra 1.609 kilometres

Thanks.

The whole Imperial thing just goes to show what a ridiculous **** the man is. However, my 80 year old Tory voting relatives lap up this kind of shit. "Send the buggers back where they came from" etc.

I'm boycotting them too.

a lot of the great unwashed lap this faux gentlemanly crap up by the bucket load.

you know, I don't think I know anybody who doesn't think the man's a total joke.

Unfortunately some of my family think he is great! Nothing I can tell them about him will change their mind. His anti LGBT bigotry, his hypocrisy over brexit ie his investment firm moving to Ireland and advising punters beware the risks / costs of brexit.

BTW - if Johnston is a pure fanny as he is then is Rees-Mogg a complete diddy?

Rees-Mogg is the bawjaws to Johnsons bawbag

Rees-Mogg is the bawjaws to Johnsons bawbag

Nah, two cheeks. Putin is in the middle. Much more difficult to spot, but the real centre.

Mogg looks like Mr Chips from the infamous Catchphrase 'Snake Charmer' episode.

Check it out.

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1268543821421346824?s=21

Damn, was hoping this was an announcement of his sudden and tragic demise

2 years on and I still can't believe someone referred to him as "quite likeable".