ninfan - MemberHis position is ridiculous! "I believe/do whatever the Pope says!" FFS
Interesting, so you presumably support the repeal of the Roman Catholic Relief Act of 1829?
No I dont but I expect people of whatever religion or organisation (unions etc) to be able to judge each issue on its merits rather than say "I just think what the boss tells me to"
I'm not reading the whole thread to check if already posted, but - in relation to the opening post - the current issue of Viz includes 'On the bog with Jacob Rees Mogg'.
No I dont but I expect people of whatever religion or organisation (unions etc) to be able to judge each issue on its merits rather than say "I just think what the boss tells me
Avoid politicians in general then (and their lackeys)
Mmm let's see...
Religious fundamentalist...
Extreme political views...
Use of complex language to mislead..
From a privileged background...
Sense of a higher purpose..
Osama Bin Mogg
The man is abhorrent and an affront to any decent human being.
So when he gets the leadership of the Tories and PM by default? as we all know Theresa ain't going to last, so you poor people better find someplace to hide as you lot are picking veg and waiting tables for less than the minimum wage as there are no foreigners allowed in.
Don't suppose the oppressed working poor expected any of this when they voted to get rid of the EU overlords. I just can't stop laughing, i really had over estimated the average bods intelligence in the UK. No wonder Nigerian Prince scams work.
If he was a moderate muslim, who voted in a similar way, maybe even voted against pro-alcohol laws; took a hard line on decency or pornography laws, the sit-down-pissers of STW would feel compelled to demonstrate how "right-on" they are by supporting his right to let his faith dictate his views.
Oh yeah.
That's definitely how it would go.
NOT.
Mogg is as out of touch with reality as Bin Laden was.
Fing tard.
The sooner he's PM the sooner the Tories will disappear up their own arses. His brand of bigotry has no place in the 21st C.
His brand of bigotry
Where has R-M expressed any sort of hostility to those who hold a different opinion?
Indeed, one might suggest that the only people expressing any form Bigotry over this issue are those who [i]support[/i] abortion
I honestly thought nothing could top May but having that absolute drip of a man as PM really is what we deserve as the icing on the brexit cake.
Where has R-M expressed any sort of hostility to those who hold a different opinion?
I think you need to look up the definition of bigotry....
Hint: aggression is not a prerequisite.....
Why am I not surprised to find Toryboi in Mogg's corner....
ninfan - Member
Where has R-M expressed any sort of hostility to those who hold a different opinion
abortion is morally indefensible.
Sounds pretty hostile 🙄
Indeed, one might suggest that the only people expressing any form Bigotry over this issue are those who support abortion
That goes without saying - have you forgotten the Marie Stopes thread?
JRM comments - at least as reported, since I haven't hard them first hand - made his views on how other people's views should be treated very clear. The contrast is marked but unsurprising.
councilof10 - MemberIf he was a moderate muslim, who voted in a similar way, maybe even voted against pro-alcohol laws; took a hard line on decency or pornography laws, the sit-down-pissers of STW would feel compelled to demonstrate how "right-on" they are by supporting his right to let his faith dictate his views.
The reason people are so intolerant of Mogg's views aren't because he's a Catholic, it's because he's posh!
Like I said, bigots. Bitter little bigots.
What a lot of utter shite.
The reason for me is because [u]his[/u] views are intolerant and he is a conceited twerp.
The fact he is playing the panto Tory "boooo, hisssss" to boost his profile should be laughable, but the level of political discourse that actually influences the public is now so puerile that it is actually getting him where he wants to be.
Sounds pretty hostile
his views are intolerant
Sounds like you have responded to a newspaper headline rather than watching the actual interview
Complete [u]lack[/u] of any hostility or intolerance.
The only hostility and intolerance is from those who disagree with him.
As he says:
"It's all very well to say we live in a multicultural country until you hold the traditional views of the Catholic church, and that seems to me fundamentally wrong, people are entitled to hold these views, but also the Democratic majority is entitled to have the laws of the land as they are, which do not go with the teaching of the Catholic church, and will not go with the teaching of the Catholic church"
Indeed!
Why am I not surprised to find Toryboi in Mogg's corner....
Personal insults to the fore, no surprise
Lefty never voting Tory STWers revel in insulthing those with differemt views, bigotry indeed
Lefty never voting Tory STWers revel in insulthing those with differemt views, bigotry indeed
You too?
Quelle surprise.....
[img] 
[/img]
He has a point though, whats the point in democracy if you're going to waste dicourse on ad homien mud slinging?
That and it's surely one of the central pillars of a liberal democracy that people are allowed to think things but allow the majority to form the decisions?
That and it's surely one of the central pillars of a liberal democracy that people are allowed to think things but allow the majority to form the decisions?
Indeed.
But don't be surprised when such an abhorrent stances is met with an equally strong opposition.
Newton's 3rd.
And someone had to stand up for the defenceless - they have no other voice
an abhorrent stance
Suggesting that killing babies is a bad thing is abhorrent now is it?
I don't personally agree with his stance on abortion, but I certainly don't find it 'abhorrent'
Perhaps you could explain why you do?
That and it's surely one of the central pillars of a liberal democracy that people are allowed to think things but allow the majority to form the decisions?
They can think and also say things but what they cant expect is for others not to think and say things in response.
The problem with these special snowflakes is they want the right to say what they want but get upset when people express their opinion.
Discreet difference between 'I respectfully disagree' and 'everyone who disagrees with me is a *ing fascist t' isn't there ?
Its very clear who is and who isn't getting upset here.
Perhaps you could explain why you do?
You feel its ok to force a woman to bear a child after being raped?
Discreet difference between 'I respectfully disagree' and 'everyone who disagrees with me is a *ing fascist t' isn't there ?
Perhaps thats why the latter only exists in your imagination aint it?
Although to be fair there will be some loony lefties who believe that I dont see evidence of them here so its irrelevant to the thread as it stands.
Perhaps you could explain why you do?
A woman whose been raped whos forced to carry the baby to term is denied control over her own body?
Yeah, I call that abhorrent.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-41172426 ]Mogg & abortion[/url]
"Asked whether his opposition applied in cases of pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, he replied: "I'm afraid so.""
You feel its ok to force a woman to bear a child after being raped?
You think it's ok to murder a healthy baby that's done nothing wrong because of who it's father was?
What proportion of abortions are down to rape? Maybe 0.1%? How about the rest? How does that tiny proportion justify the legalisation of the other 185,000?
thisisnotaspoon - Member
He has a point though, whats the point in democracy if you're going to waste dicourse on ad homien mud slinging?
Oh, I quite agree.
Have you seen the Corbyn thread?
An edifying example of how our resident right wing ideologues insist on playing the ball, not the man.
Maybe 0.1%? How about the rest? How does that tiny proportion justify the legalisation of the other 185,000?
Sauce?
You think it's ok to murder a healthy baby that's done nothing wrong because of who it's father was?
You think it's ok to force a woman to carry a baby to term when the father is a rapist?
What has the baby done wrong?
Would it be OK to kill the rapist?
The problem with these special snowflakes is they want the right to say what they want but get upset when people express their opinion.
My point was that; people aren't expressing an opinion on the issue, they're saying things like:
mrlebowski - Member
Mogg is as out of touch with reality as Bin Laden was.Fing tard.
oldmanmtb - MemberOsama Bin Mogg
The man is abhorrent and an affront to any decent human being.
Isn't really dealing with politics.
What did the woman do wrong?
Ad infinitum.....
I believe that upto a date - & I'm no expert - abortion has its place. But to deny that choice? Particularly when the pregnancy is the resujt of rape, or not in the interest of the Mother say underage, or the child will be severely disabled.......then yes abortion is a choice which should be available.
To force a woman to have a child when it's plainly a bad idea?
That's wrong.
What's your answer?.... say in a case of rape, or underage, or severe disability...?
Would it be OK to kill the rapist?
Do you want to?
Isn't really dealing with politics.
True, but it winds up the storm front subscribers!
😆
What's your answer?.... say in a case of rape, or underage, or severe disability...?
And where does that relate to what he said this morning?
He said he doesn't think abortion is morally right. Which to me is a fair enough stance, he's not proposing a change to the existing law though. That's just the opposite way of arriving at the same 'pro choice' conclusion in a democracy.
What's your answer?.... say in a case of rape, or underage, or severe disability...?
Ok, let's play your game... we'll agree to legalise it in all those cases.
Going by the stats here: http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/uk_abortion_statistics/ That's about 5% of all abortions.
US study reckons about 5% of reported rapes result in pregnancy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
Police record about 25k rapes per year: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/13/reported-rapes-in-england-and-wales-double-in-five-years. So that would be 1250 (so, absolute tops of 0.625%, (a bit higher than I had guessed)
So, if we exclude the rapes, the disabled babies, the births that would risk the health of the mother etc, then we are left with 95% of abortions, somewhere around 185-195,000 a year that you are happy banning.
That's a good start isn't it?
That's a good start isn't it?
I like the attempt to change the subject. The question is about forcing women to continue the pregnancy in all of those cases.
Where do you stand on that?
The question is about forcing women to continue the pregnancy in all of those cases.
Who has suggested doing that?
"Asked whether his opposition applied in cases of pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, he replied: "I'm afraid so."
Mogg opines that any abortion is wrong, he agrees with the Catholic Church that abortion is a grave evil - I'm just extending that to areas where abortion might be considered a viable course of action.
He's entitled to his opinion - I just find it rather unenlightened to put it mildly.
So, if we exclude the rapes, the disabled babies, the births that would risk the health of the mother etc, then we are left with 95% of abortions, somewhere around 185-195,000 a year that you are happy banning.
I'm not banning anything - I'm giving the mother the choice..
Mogg opines that any abortion is wrong
Yes, but he didn't suggest in any way banning it did he? In fact he said the exact opposite.
Really?
"Asked whether his opposition applied in cases of pregnancies resulting from rape or incest, he replied: "I'm afraid so."
Hmmmm.
Whos talking about banning abortion?
We are talking about Moggs opposition to abortion
F it, life is too short.
There are cases when abortion is a legit option & I am happy with the current guidelines.
My last word:
Pro Choice - its the woman's body.
What about pregnancy in the case of sexual assault of a forum member's mother?
I'm not banning anything - I'm giving the mother the choice..
Ok, but is that choice sacrosanct? when should she lose that choice? Are you ok with the prospect of an abortion at week 39 for no medical reason? Is that still the mothers choice?
[quote=ninfan ]Yes, but he didn't suggest in any way banning it did he? In fact he said the exact opposite.
Did he specify how he would vote if there was a vote on the issue then? I must have missed that bit.
Maybe Sheila Hodgers or Savita Halappanavar could debate with JRM about his stance on 'under any circumstances'.
He may be many things, ranging from out of touch to probably a complete ****, but I couldn't possibly imagine him a hypocrite. After all, it's all about the sanctity of life. Isn't it?
ninfan - Member
an abhorrent stance
Suggesting that killing babies is a bad thing is abhorrent now is it?
You were supporting nazis a couple of weeks ago.
Do just so we're all clear
Killing babies = not ok
Killing Jews = go nuts
You were supporting nazis a couple of weeks ago.
No, I was supporting Nazis right to have an opinion that is different from mine, and a right to express it in public peacefully and in accordance with the law
The same way that I'm supporting and respecting R-M's right to gave an opinion that I don't hold, and to express it in public peacefully and in accordance with the law.
I don't think I'll ever fully understand lefties inability to cope with the concept of someone being able to tolerate and support other people's divergent opinion and speech without needing to support or tacitly agree with them
I almost agree with you on that, with the exception that I don't think JRM needs a punch in the mouth for his views. Nazi's OTOH do.
They're Nazi's FFS!
TBH, GMB are not blameless in all of this. Yes - there is a (sort of) right to free speech, but there's no right to have a platform to spout it from.
There are very few people saying Mogg doesn't have the right to hold and express his views, and if they're saying that, well, they're onto a loser. The fact that views such as his are given a "free pass" and are somehow above criticism if they come a position of religious conviction is another matter. This makes me uncomfortable - having experienced the indoctrination of a Catholic upbringing and the hypocritical bollocks that goes with it. There are plenty saying he's a bit of an arsehole for having them - which is fair enough. I happen to think he's a bit of an arsehole myself and not just for these views.
I'll never understand right wing trolls who can't just let people judge someone for his views if they find them abhorrent without accusing them of trying to stifle free speech.
I'll never understand right wing trolls who can't just let people judge someone for his views if they find them abhorrent without accusing them of trying to stifle free speech.
Because lefties like you have spent years telling is that multiculturalism and respect for the beliefs of others is a good thing and what our society is supposed to be about?
Because lefties like you...
Yes, of course Zulu.
😆
I was supporting Nazis right to have an opinion that is different from mine
Different 😆
Aye, right you are.
because they cannot defend the views and they are trolling.I'll never understand right wing trolls who can't just let people judge someone for his views if they find them abhorrent without accusing them of trying to stifle free speech.
I cannot understand why folk choose to try to debate with them someone they know is trolling
"Because lefties like you have spent years telling is that multiculturalism and respect for the beliefs of others is a good thing and what our society is supposed to be about?"
By respect for others beliefs, do you just mean skin colour? skin colour is what the right and you seem to be obsessed about...
Because I'm not sure that Kimbers, Junkyard, Binners etc really have that much time for political Islam.... it's just that they aren't obnoxious jerks like me when expressing it.
He's a bit if a nobhead and if his family didnt have money he'd be the bloke at work you all took the piss out of.
[quote=Junkyard ]I cannot understand why folk choose to try to debate with them someone they know is trolling
Oh come on JY, it's fun if you don't take the debate too seriously and simply play them at their own game. And he does make it an interesting challenge because he's very skilled at subtly moving the goalposts when nobody is looking.
On which thought is my previous post sufficiently awkward that ninfan is ignoring it? Will I have to go through a multi-page session of challenging him to provide an answer? Will he answer a completely different post and then spend several pages claiming he's already answered me?
perfectly sums him up in a sentence . Well said sir .He's a bit if a nobhead and if his family didnt have money he'd be the bloke at work you all took the piss out of.
Rees-Mogg has the right to hold and express his views, and I've got the right to say that I think his views make him unfit to hold the post of PM.
Edit: and more importantly, his actions in the form of multiple votes as as MP.
We used to have a lad a bit older than us who lived down the road who received a head injury when young.
He was exactly the same as jrm.
He dressed as if it was 1940(which was even odder in the days of platforms and flares) and if he had to carry anything on his shoulder he would neatly fold his handkerchief and place that twixt item and shoulder.
He never smiled either.
I wonder what became of him?
Mr Rees Mogg - Right Honorable Member for Downton Abbey"It's all very well to say we live in a multicultural country until you hold the traditional views of the Catholic church, and that seems to me fundamentally wrong, people are entitled to hold these views, but also the Democratic majority is entitled to have the laws of the land as they are, which do not go with the teaching of the Catholic church, and will not go with the teaching of the Catholic church"
I hadn't watched the interview until this morning, but I like the guy even more after watching it. He has the unswerving courage of his own convictions which I admire greatly, a quality so sadly lacking in this day and age.
You know exactly what his views are, he's completely unapologetic, and he won't be cowed by his critics. Personally, I'd love to see him as PM, because if an nth of a per-cent of his strength of character were to trickle down to the next generation of titty-lipped thumb-suckers, the world will be a better place.
Brexit is inevitable. We all know May is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear when - pre-referendum - she'd made it abundantly clear she didn't think it was possible.
It's safe to say that if JRM supported Brexit, it's because he 100%, hand-on-heart, deeply believes it to be the best option for the country. Sure, there are those who would suggest he's feathering his own nest, but I don't really think his nest needs a great deal more feather, and a well-feathered nest ain't much good in a rotten tree!
Whilst I support May's current stance in respecting the democratic decision, I can't help feeling that at any point, she's going to throw her hands in the air and retort "Well, YOU asked for this, not me!"
I think we need leadership that believes in the "project" in order to carries use towards the best outcome for us.
(for the record, I'm opposed but resigned to Brexit)
He has the unswerving courage of his own convictions which I admire greatly
A quality shared by the worst despots humanity has managed to put on this earth. I wouldn't for one minute rank him alongside those people but it is not a quality without a very dark side.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
A quality shared by the worst despots
And also by the most brilliant leaders the world has ever seen.
The bookies have slashed the odds of Moog as next leader.
But he is presently being staunchly defended on Five Live by that arch-moderniser...
Ann Widdecombe
😆
councilof10 - MemberIt's safe to say that if JRM supported Brexit, it's because he 100%, hand-on-heart, deeply believes it to be the best option for the country.
True. But that doesn't mean he's not arrived at that decision in a half-assed way. Conviction is good in a person but it's important not to confuse it with wisdom.
councilof10 - MemberI hadn't watched the interview until this morning, but I like the guy even more after watching it. He has the unswerving courage of his own convictions which I admire greatly, a quality so sadly lacking in this day and age.
You know exactly what his views are, he's completely unapologetic, and he won't be cowed by his critics. Personally, I'd love to see him as PM, because if an nth of a per-cent of his strength of character were to trickle down to the next generation of titty-lipped thumb-suckers, the world will be a better place.
You could say the same thing about Jeremy Corbin..... But I bet you wouldn't want him as PM?
councilof10 - MemberA quality shared by the worst despots
And also by the most brilliant leaders the world has ever seen.
Codswallop! The worlds great leaders were all pragmatists. It's only the nutters who unbendingly adhere to a rigid ideology. Especially not one even remotely shared by the vast majority of people they seek to rule over (and believe me, these people all see themselves as 'rulers')
Personally, I'd love to see him as next Tory Leader. The result would be them being rapidly booted out of power for a generation or two
councilof10 - Member
It's safe to say that if JRM supported Brexit, it's because he 100%, hand-on-heart, deeply believes it to be the best option for the country.
Or best for his own pocket - I think we all know deep down its economic suicide for 98% of the country.
Hitler had the courage of his convictions too.
He has the unswerving courage of his own convictions which I admire greatly
Well, he's never going to have to decide to have an abortion, so it's pretty easy to have convictions about things that don't affect you. That doesn't seem to me to require any courage at all.
And also by the most brilliant leaders the world has ever seen.
You are Sixtus & I claim my shilling.
Hitler had the courage of his convictions too.
Pol Pot could be pretty strong minded too.
ninfan - Member
No, I was supporting Nazis right to have an opinion that is different from mine, and a right to express it in public peacefully and in accordance with the law
We know.
So why not just say so, without all the trolling and nastiness?
Seriously, do you enjoy the abuse?
that Angela Merkel is another one of those blessed with the courage of her convictions and is pretty pragmatic. Just saying like.
It just occurred to me that Jeremy Corbin is another person who could be labelled as being a person who is a conviction politician and widely appreciated for it.
eat leaders were all pragmatists. It's only the nutters who unbendingly adhere to a rigid ideology. Especially not one even remotely shared by the vast majority of people they seek to rule over (and believe me, these people all see themselves as 'rulers')
This suggest that you didn't like step to the interview or read a transcription. Be careful, headlines and STW frothing are poor substitutes for focusing on what people actually say
Seriously, do you enjoy the abuse
Probably not as much as the enjoyment that the abusers seem to get. Despite advocating ignoring ninfan (and others) they continue to be drawn to his posts like moths to a flame. Plus ca change.....
Well, he's deliberately behaving in an unpleasant manner in a successful attempt to provoke a reaction.
Trolling, in other words.
What do you expect?
Have you thought of adopting a more patronising tone Hurty? It may work for you? You should give it a go.
I heard exactly what he said thanks. So far the only people who've come out and defended his arcane point of view on abortion and homosexuality are Anne Widdecombe and members of the DUP, who could barely contain their joy that someone presently being touted as the next PM had joined them in the 18th century.
Like I said, I'd love to see him as Tory leader
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/05/tories-beware-left-captured-values-of-young ]Some recent polling on social opinions of the young[/url]
Doesn't make good reading for Mogg. The people who share his views grow less and less by the day
Expect in what sense?
Expect in a rational sense: posters who post nonsense would simply be ignored (another name springs to mind, but will leave it there)
Expect here: pages and pages of baiting, shin scraping, general abuse at various levels of vindictiveness and calls for banning. Still good for the page count and for STW advertising revenues!
Why would anything change? That's a likely as JRM warning a non pin strip suit 😉
I heard exactly what he said thanks.
Edit: Binners you may well have done, but the content of your posts suggests otherwise, That's clear and has been noted above by others.
behaving in an unpleasant manner
Cite!
teamhurtmore - Member
Expect in a rational sense: posters who post no sense would simply be ignored (another name springs to mind, but will leave it there)
You're intelligent enough to understand that internet trolls provoke a reaction.
Yet you repeatedly blame the responders, not the troll.
I can only conclude that you're trolling as well.
