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I struggle with long sentences. However, I did spot this, and it’s something with which I wholeheartedly agree:
Think twice before tarring a whole nation with the extreme acts or views of a minority (except when they become the majority – I can think of an example of that) and do what you can to stop them spreading their poison. I see this thread as taking on the racism apologists on the other thread. I won’t call them racists but anyone who tries to minimise racist acts or dismiss them as insignificant in the greater scheme of things becomes a racist apologist.
Not all Poles are racist, unfortunately some are. Not all Brits are racist but unfortunately some are. The Polish border is open but there’s some racism going on, the British border is errrr, ask Priti.
Now I’m getting back to my glass of whiskey before I go to bed, and leave the squabbling to you lot.
Nos da a chysga’n dda. 🇺🇦
Racism is wrong in any circumstance, but when you’re up to your arse in alligators, draining the swamp is not the immediate concern.
Draining the swamp is the long term solution though.
Wars are built on "us and them". Demonise and dehumanise the adversary so your followers won't feel bad about murdering them in brutal ways. Segregate, discriminate, victimise, build hate. Any characteristic will do: race, skin colour, religion, hair style, eye slant, politics, eating habits... .
Some racist border guards discredit Poland, add that to some dodgy internal politics on abortion LGBT and such, some barmy churh leaders and it's not long before people are convinced the whole of Poland is a place with dodgy values unworthy of Nato support. They're seen as different, not properly European - you see where I'm going?
"insignifcant" was prompted by:
Some people have no perspective!
It's worth noting that - not just on this thread - the majority of persistent, argumentative and voluble posters are 'free members'.
That means they make no financial contribution to support the forum they use to promote their views.
Says a lot.
If STW imposed a charge for those who don't want/won't pay for digital and/or print subscription - say, £5/yr how many would pay up?
Call them non-subscriber members.
Very few would be my guess.
Convert that notional £5/yr to a daily charge - it's less than 1.5p/day.
Not sure about the copyright status of this forum but Dave Gorman could have a lot of fun with some of the posts on this thread.
(thinks: molgrips last post!)
We're generating traffic, Frank, we're part of the business model, without us the already declining revenues from the likes of Google ads would fall further. I get bans now and then to remind me what life without STW membership is like. I began to think the most recent one was lifetime but then the damned thing came back to life 😉
Perhaps they also discriminate against people with beards or very large ears, who knows, no one said that “only” ethnic minorities were being discriminated against.
Tedious Ernie you’re getting desperate.
It’s worth noting that – not just on this thread – the majority of persistent, argumentative and voluble posters are ‘free members’.
So what you are saying is if free members, and tbh 99% of forums are free, pay a small subscription, their points and voices carry more weight.
I notice in North Korea, everyone who matters has a Kim Jong Un badge.
you’re getting desperate.
I thought you were getting pretty desperate when you said that you used the word "only" Drac. As in :
Nothing about them just being ethnic minorities only.
Yeah crossing the border has been proved difficult for many people, but only ethnic minorities have been discriminated against.
You are denying evidence of a specific problem and then claiming that you aren't denying the problem.
Racism has affected people crossing the boarder. Your interesting use of the word "only" doesn't change that.
What would make you happy?
Seriously, you seem very earnest and seem to be taking a huge amount of offence over what? Not a single poster on this thread has disagreed with your ascertion that the treatment at the border was racist, or that racism exists in various Eastern European countries (and the UK of course). No one is being an apologist for the racism. What else would you like us to do?
I seem to have triggered you because I trivialized a British citizens treatment (i.e. someone who still has a home and family and a country to go to). You can choose to read her story at face value and conveniently ignore the fact that this military buildup took weeks to happen and sensible non-Ukrainians would have followed the advice of their governments to get out of Ukraine asap. I'll be charitable and say she made a poor decision...
Anyway, quite a social media presence she has, btw. I'm sure this publicity will help her raise a lot of money for her Gofundme campaign (and won't hurt her various other ventures 😉)
"Anyway, quite a social media presence she has"
Jealous much?
Anyway, what's she raising money for? Could it be to help other refugees that are still stuck there? Could it be for other advocacy purposes that she believes in? (that you won't like).
Could it be that the media was so slow to report the stories (one of the big three UK tv stations sat on a fully edited piece for over a day, we used to call that sort of thing censorship) so she realised in the absence of proper journalism she'd have to roll her sleeves up and do something about it herself.
"I’ll be charitable"
Using the word like that is the opposite of being charitable..
Don't forget, she is actually trying to get refugees out of Ukraine. Something that most people would see as being charitable..
Anyway, quite a social media presence she has”
Jealous much?
I don't know markgraylish but I doubt their comments have anything to do with jealousy. I do imagine that a journalist would need to take "extra care" over fact checking a story received from someone who has a social media presence though.
You are denying evidence of a specific problem and then claiming that you aren’t denying the problem.
I’ve never denied there may be a problem. What I have done is point out the long queues, lack of facilities has effected most trying to cross the border. It’s not really surprising given the shear numbers trying to get through when the infrastructure is rapidly declining.
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Edukator
Free MemberYou’ll find racists everywhere… Think twice before tarring a whole nation…
Such as equating all Thai masseuse with sex workers? A rather casually racist comment in the Shane Warne thread I thought.
My wife uses a Thai massage place most weekends, a few years ago they applied for planning permission for a change of location, the planning portal was full of trolls making the same racist assertion. The owner was in tears as she told my wife how horrible it was to read.
Seriously, you seem very earnest and seem to be taking a huge amount of offence over what?
I seem to have triggered you because I trivialized a British citizens treatment
Taken offence?? Why would I be offended? I am not in the least bit offended by your comments.
Your comment suggesting that perhaps people weren't victim of racism and that instead the problem might be due to checking that Russian spies weren't entering the EU was undoubtedly daft but why would I be offended by it? Bemused, yes.
And the reason I referred to your trivialization of a black woman's experience of serious racism was because two people had asked of examples of where racism had been dismissed as not such a big deal.
I thought your use of the term "bless" as you attempted to patronise a black woman who had experienced racism was a good example.
The thread title is rather misleading, none of us seem to have learnt anything in the last few days.
To my mind taking part in ridiculous speculation and obsessing over military hardware is much more diminishing of the original tragedy,
We're all of us staring at this from the cheap seats, and all of us processing this at our own pace in a way that they can feel makes sense, for some that concentrating on the human tragedy, for others it concentrating on the fighting, but it's all the same thing: What the **** is happening?
People assimilate events at a different pace in a different way. Ridiculous speculation on a site predominately about mountain bikes is just a way people use to try to understand events while recognizing that they're impotent and helpless to do anything about it, similarly concentrating on the war fighting is just a way of looking for news that the fighting is going the way they hope, and that soon it will be finished.
It all just coping.
Just because people are processing this information in a different way to you, doesn't make them bad or wrong, they just have a different coping mechanism.
none of us seem to have learnt anything in the last few days.
Speak for yourself I have learnt something, as previously mentioned. Although it wasn't entirely surprising
You gotta love this place, full of self-righteous middle-class liberals who will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who says coloured people instead of people of colour accusing them of racism, but real racism which affects people’s lives and leaves them in stressful and unpleasant situations is dismissed as not important enough to discuss**
Edit :** When it suits their agenda
Anyway, quite a social media presence she has, btw. I’m sure this publicity will help her raise a lot of money for her Gofundme campaign (and won’t hurt her various other ventures 😉)
Wait, are you now accusing her of exploiting (and/or exaggerating) her racist treatment for personal gain? Wow.
Just because people are processing this information in a different way to you, doesn’t make them bad or wrong, they just have a different coping mechanism.
I dunno, I think some ways of dealing with it are obsessice, unhealthy and inappropriate.
You gotta love this place, full of self-righteous middle-class liberals who will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who says coloured people instead of people of colour accusing them racism, but real racism which affects people’s lives and leaves them in stressful and unpleasant situations is dismissed as not important enough to discuss**
Not even remotely what's being said.
We're essentially saying it belongs in a different thread. So you've got one, make your point. But I think it already has been made (racism is bad in Eastern Europe) so why are you still here?
The thread title is rather misleading, none of us seem to have learnt anything in the last few days.
I think its more about trying to have one's bias confirmed
so why are you still here?
I'm assuming you are still here because you haven't made your point yet?
I'm still here to learn more about middle-class liberal hypocrisy.
Where else am I likely to experience it?
But I think it already has been made (racism is bad in Eastern Europe) so why are you still here?
Nope the point was that people here were so casually dismissive about it/denying it was even a real issue/angry about it even being mentioned because somehow that 'helps Putin' (though no one has explained how).
I dunno, I think some ways of dealing with it are obsessice, unhealthy and inappropriate.
No they're not, they just run to what they know, Many of us are either ex military, are from military families or something equivalent. focusing on this is just returning to information that you can make sense from. You could say that just looking at the plight of folks caught up in this is ghoulish and misery porn.
It's just folks dealing with it in a way that makes sense to them. Is all.
On this thread? I don't think the plight of Nigerian or the Bangladeshi students on the regular news report that I saw (on BBC or Sky I think) looked away from or ignored the fact that both Ukrainian and Polish border guards were pretty openly racist, and were making them wait for no good reason other than the colour of their skin. I was pretty shocked. I think it's one more indignity heaped upon a pyre of tragedy that all refugees are forced to confront. I don't think it was necessarily being ignored on the Ukraine thread, it moves so fast that folks are skim reading it (I know I am) and probably missed mention of it.
Humans in fear or facing desperation can be shit to each other.
I’m assuming you are still here because you haven’t made your point yet?
I did, two or three times.
I’m still here to learn more about middle-class liberal hypocrisy.
You're not learning anything, you might as well go home. You formed an opinion, started to talk about it, but you've flat out ignored every contribution or seen it through the lens of the idea you already formed. This is the definition of not learning, so what's the point? Why not just make up some characters in a notebook and rant at them, that's essentially what you are doing. I'm not even sure what you want to achieve by posting here. Do you want us to say 'oh yeah actually we are racist scum thanks for pointing it out?'
Well that obviously rattled you molgrips. Maybe take your own advice and step away from the thread and calm down? You sound angry.
The thread title is rather misleading, none of us seem to have learnt anything in the last few days.
I’ve learnt that these threads all seem to end up being a virtue signalling competition that has little to with the op’s original topic
Do you want us to say ‘oh yeah actually we are racist scum thanks for pointing it out?’
My personal take on it was more that people didn't want to hear anything bad about anyone Ukrainian because they're the goodies. Which is an attitude I find problematic.
I don't think anyone on the Ukraine thread doesn't understand for a second that they're being fed propaganda from both Ukrainian and Russian sources since the beginning of the invasion. You can see people saying variants on the theme of "Found this, don't know/unsure of source, treat with caution, but is interesting" right from the earliest posts.
I think most folks on this site are aware enough that I don't think anyone is going to be surprised to hear that both Ukrainian and Russians are prepared to or will probably commit atrocities. With the involvement of Azov paramilitaries and Kadyrov's militia and the Wagner group, I don't see how it can't be. It's been 12 days now, and we're getting micro snippets of what's actually going on. I fully expect the future discovery of war-crimes to be horrific.
" I fully expect the future discovery of war-crimes to be horrific."
It's generally the case. Geneva Conventions & Queensberry Rules aren't on everyones radar.
I’m not even sure what you want to achieve by posting here.
Well that obviously rattled you molgrips.
QED.
You sound angry.
Exasperated, mildly irritated. A potentially productive discussion de-railed by bickering and point scoring for no apparent reason. Are you enjoying yourself? I don't think anyone else is. Would you like to score a point? Here, have a point, you can put it on your scoreboard and be proud of it.
Someone please close this thread it's ridiculous.
This thread is more depressing than the ****ing war.
[mod] - This thread was never going to go well due to it’s opening statement. It’s now becoming a pointless thread with some evident attempts at trolling. So it’s being closed. [/mod]
Aside: I thought "Thai massage" was simply a style of massage, not a massage given by someone who is from Thailand? Assuming that a massage parlour is a euphemism for a brothel is pretty offensive to mass-[however you spell the plural] but does it really have racial connotations?