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I see the Spectator has weighed in with their opinion on the matter. It was the leadimg article when I looked, written by the deputy editor Freddie Gray (Amelia Stratton's husbamd)
So if the story wasn't top priority for some on here it certainly was today for the Spectator, (and that's not a dig on anyone on here, it's a dig at the Spectator.)
I wonder if that's why I bought it up on the other thread in the first place? knowing how the situation was about to be leveraged by our very own bad faith actors, knowing they'd be lining it up to make a culture war here out of a real war there. And if that's what people thought I did then fair enough, I'm some random on the internet trying to show a bit of empathy, not the leading State Sponsored organ that is the Spectator.
I think this topic would have come up on the other thread in a day or two anyway if I hadn't posted yesterday. In a way its probably good that there's another thread available for these type of things, because the Ukraine thread is probably going to get a lot, lot darker.
My post wasnt directed at anyone in particular. Completely rhetorical.
Smilies are there to convey emotion, that is their entire reason for being, something many threads here could certainly do with.
" and many, many more 💩"
Pretty sad 🙄
“If I’m a white Ukrainian woman and I’ve got my dog, I’d just walk through while there are still these queues of black people that are probably going to be there for another two or three days”
So, I see Korinne from Leicester has managed to make it back home to the UK and has been reunited with her husband and kid after a "harrowing week long journey". Bless her...
Meanwhile "white Ukrainian woman with a dog" doesn't have a home to go to because it's been bombed and her husband/boyfriend/brother/father/son are staying behind to fight a massive army. She'll be lucky if she has a country to return to, nevermind a house or family.
Some people have no perspective!
Sure, racism exists and it's not pleasant, and some people are shits (and happen to work as border guards) so it's bound to happen but having to wait to be "processed" in chaotic situations is hardly a matter of life-and-death. I wonder how many of those 1000 students will still be displaced in a month's time...
Maybe. But in this case, for example, I suspect that good ol’ fashion racism was the issue rather than any concern that Korrine from Leicester might be a Russian spy trying to infiltrate the EU.
Well it would be but the person I spoke to it’s anyone without a passport is held and those with allowed straight through. Nothing to do with their skin colour.
it’s anyone without a passport is held and those with allowed straight through. Nothing to do with their skin colour.
Do you really think that in this example the woman, her husband, and their 11 month child, didn't have passports, that's why they were held up, and it had nothing to do with the colour of their skin?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/british-student-brands-treatment-black-26390678
What is the likelihood of black Brits living in Ukraine not having passports compared to the likelihood of black Brits living in Ukraine being victims of racism?
Or the likelihood that they might be Russian spies trying to enter the EU, for that matter.
Have absolutely no idea Ernie but there seems to different perceptions, I have no idea which one is the most accurate. I also have no idea if the queues were divided between Ukraine residents and none Ukraine residents which would make more sense then just based on their skin colour.
Thanks for your support on this thread ernie. I read that story you posted and it was absolutely horrific.
Drac is right of course, he has absolutely no idea and yet he feels free to post nonsense, not even speculation.
For those who like to post but can't be bothered to do their own research the brief synopsis of the story is that they leave by car for the border, when they stop for a break they are approached by local armed Ukranians and are told they will be shot if they don't leave in 5 minutes.
When they get to the border they join the queue to cross but locals surround the car and start pounding on it, they are then dragged out and forced into the pedestrian queue, which is composed entirely of non white people, anyone white was allowed through immediately, (there's your FSB spies for you).
After a 10 hour wait at the side of the road they finally crossed into Romania. Where they had another 10 hour wait. She is a British medical student and she is working on a database of a thousand other non white people who had similar experiences and she is trying to help because some of them because they are still trapped.
People were segregated 100 % and exclusively by race, not by passports. It was Jim Crow, in Europe, in the 21sr Century. The number of people on this forum that are okay with that is shocking.
There's a few on here who seem keener to extend their empathy to Ukranian citizens than one of our own, trapped in a war zone with her baby. They get angry if things like this get mentioned on a thread about Ukraine because it gets in the way of the important stuff, like transferring their 'call of duty' training to the problem, being an armchair Napoleon or posting war porn.
Not knowing something is not knowing something.
Not knowing something and posting about it is ignorance.
I'm not calling anyone a racist but I am calling them ignorant.
On the other hand:
"OMG these people are getting the shit bombed out of them"
"Yeah that sucks, they're also racist."
"..."
What goes next in that conversation?
inkster - you may be correct in saying that Amelia Stratton (who she?) and Freddy Gray are married but you are confusing them with Allegra Stratton and James Forsyth (of the Spectator) who are married to each other.
Look around Europe and in general you will see that the countries that were most successful at plundering and enslavement in countries populated by non-white people are the countries that today have the highest proportion of non-white residents. These are also the countries when racism is less severe, on account of living next to people who look different tends to give you an opportunity to see that on the whole, skin colour apart, they aren't really that different. There are even studies which indicate that Britain is one of the least racist countries in Europe. This is a sign of progress, but it doesn't make the original crimes of the colonialists any less bad.
In the countries who were not such enthusiastic colonialists non-white people are rarer and racism is much worse. Eastern European countries tend to be in this group.
So, Russians, Poles, Ukrainians and many other Eastern Europeans are in general much more likely to be racist than Britons. This is a very bad thing, but it doesn't make the invasion of Ukraine any less bad.
"What goes next in that conversation?"
That you care more about white Ukranians than black British? The woman in question was trying to escape having the s*** bombed out of her by the russians as well as having to deal with Ukranians who were threatening to kill her. So for me I'd put her and her child at a slightly higher priority because she is danger from Russia, Ukraine and whatever EU country she ends up escaping to.
frankconway,
Doh! At least I'm not confusing nice people with nasty people, I'm sure anyone of them would be proud to have put their name to the article!
These are also the countries when racism is less severe, on account of living next to people who look different tends to give you an opportunity to see that on the whole, skin colour apart, they aren’t really that different. There are even studies which indicate that Britain is one of the least racist countries in Europe.
This is a very good point which imo too many people choose to ignore because it doesn't fit in nicely with their chosen narrative.
Although I would go further and say Britian is the most multicultural and least racist country in Europe.
Although that obviously doesn't deny the existence of racism as a deep rooted problem of course.
That you care more about white Ukranians than black British?
Umm?
Really don't follow your line of reasoning. I mean yes, racism is bad, we know. But like I said - there's a time and a place and you have to understand that right now it makes it look like you're steering the conversation away from the severity of the situation. I know what you're trying to say and I fully agree but right now it's just going to start a row (as it did).
Now we have a different thread, and yes, racism is much worse in Eastern Europe, i think we all agree there.
The number of people on this forum that are okay with that is shocking.
Who is “okay” with what you have described? It’s horrible. The account posted in the other thread was an utterly depressing read. And her journey didn’t get much better once in the hands of UK officials and staff either. All in all a horrific tale, and far from an isolated one by all accounts. It’s not good. It’s not okay. There is also a war happening, and the focus for many people is elsewhere other than on that of Brits and other foreign nationals being treated horribly and inequitably as they escape from it. We shouldn’t be damned for our attention not being focused enough on one aspect of this tragedy over others. We shouldn’t be made to weigh up all the horrible events taking place, and when dividing up our condemnation, sense of loss, fears for the future, empathy for survivors, worry for refugees, sadness for those that are dying, dread for the fate of protestors, and be made to pay some kind of social price for not spending enough forum time on any of the horrors piling up upon each other as a country is ripped apart and its inhabitants spread across Europe or pummelled into the ground.
There’s a few on here who seem keener to extend their empathy to Ukranian citizens than one of our own, trapped in a war zone with her baby.
"One of our own"....interesting choice of words there.
I don't know that woman personally but I do personally know three Ukrainians (two work colleagues plus a distant relative) who have family "trapped" in their own country.
So sure, if you ask me where my sympathies lie it's with those who are fleeing for their lives rather than someone who had an unpleasant border crossing and had to deal with some low-level racist shit...
Sure, she/they shouldn't have had to deal with it, but there's nothing I can do about and I'm sure the local politicians who can do something about it are kinda busy right now....
There are even studies which indicate that Britain is one of the least racist countries in Europe.
13th European country according to this:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-racist-countries
behind Ireland and Switzerland which aren't well-known for their colonial histories.
See what Priti Patel is doing in Calais right now.
Before slagging off what's happening in other countries have a look at UK policy right now. And remind yourselves of the reception given to people with dark skin fleeing a war zone created by the US and UK when they are washed up on Kent beaches.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/19/young-migrant-attacked-beach-moments-arriving-uk-12679864/
“One of our own”….interesting choice of words there.
Indeed. It says a lot without saying too much.
There are even studies which indicate that Britain is one of the least racist countries in Europe.
Our government, or the general population?
Drac is right of course, he has absolutely no idea and yet he feels free to post nonsense, not even speculation.
You suggested we speak to someone who has experienced it, I did. They painted a different picture I just don’t know which one is accurate, the one you paint or the one they do.
There’s a few on here who seem keener to extend their empathy to Ukranian citizens than one of our own, trapped in a war zone with her baby.
I get angry that anyone has to find themselves in this situation, not just Brits.
When I said one of our own I meant someone British, who was let down by a number of countries including our own.
When a war kicks off we usually try to get our own citizens out, we prioritise them. It's normal.
If you think it's because I'm am nationalistic or something please say, I genuinely don't know what your implying?
As Educator points out, it's a silly game playing racist top trumps with statistics. The least racist is still racist.
"You suggested we speak to someone who has experienced it, I did. They painted a different picture I just don’t know which one is accurate, the one you paint or the one they do."
Both?
"I get angry that anyone has to find themselves in this situation, not just Brits."
I do too, I suppose when it comes to the crunch though, I am more likely to extend my sympathy to a non racist person than a racist one, regardless of which country they come from.
There’s a few on here who seem keener to extend their empathy to Ukranian citizens than one of our own, trapped in a war zone with her baby.
My sympathy extends to everyone caught up in this shit show.
Both?
Which is my point it’ll be a combination of them, the reality is usually a mix of perceptions.
When a war kicks off we usually try to get our own citizens out, we prioritise them. It’s normal.
Didn’t the foreign office advise and help brits to get home weeks ago?
As another perspective:
competitive virtue signalling is incredibly tedious and maybe a lot of us are tired of the same old posters trying to out-do each other with your oh-so-delicate liberal sensibilities
I used to regard myself as left-wing, being a lifelong Guardian reading liberal, but you lot, dear god….
Everything anybody posts is racist/sexist/somethingist
Bed wetters doesn’t even begin to describe it. You inhabit some kind of alternative naval-gazing universe, stained with the butter drips from crumpets
Unless you express solidarity with the Palestinians twice in every post then you’re a fascist, apparently
It’s quite incredible the threads you derail with your tiresome, competitive self-righteousness and pious, sanctimonious pontificating
And you all act as a gang to shout down anyone who has the audacity to raise any opinion that wasn’t approved by the your messiah in Islington
Maybe you could try not polishing your halo so publicly for the benefit of all of us?
This +1
Hi Ed,
You like in France don't you?
Everyone in the UK has gone mad right now. But I think you knew that...
Depending on which page you dropped in on I'm either a raging nationalist or a woke snowflake. Trying to get people to look at things from the perspective of others but you know.. priorites...
Anyhow, hope all is good with you? I got some mud on the tyres today in some fantastic weather and no one shot at me, or even threatened to shoot me! (remember I do live in Manchester)
I’m really struggling to even see what your point is Inkster, I’ve not seen anyone say half the stuff your claiming on here. I have also not seen anyone say that there won’t be any judgemental controls at borders. The war is tragic and sadly has many tragic knock on effects, because well war is shit.
I mean yes, racism is bad, we know. But like I said – there’s a time and a place
When it comes to racism I don't think there is.
When it comes to racism I don’t think there is.
Ok, we get it! You and Inkster outscore everyone else in the empathy stakes....
Pau, Inkster. I'm hoping sanity prevails in our up-coming elections. As I type this the background noise is the TF1 report on the Ukraine. Frankly it's difficult to watch.
I got mud on the tyres of my MTB today and skied up a mountain and back in the clouds yesterday. Huge privileges at the best of times and at present surreal. I thought back to the early 80s when I spent a Summer working in Germany during some of the Nato exercises when the cold war warmed up. Tanks rumbling along the local roads.
I thought of this guy too:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24280831
I hope there are still some Russians who love their children.
I don't think there's much I can do apart from not consuming any gas or oil. I didn't go to the solidarity rally in town but if immigrants rock up I'll see if there's anything I can do.
Ok, we get it! You and Inkster outscore everyone else in the empathy stakes….
Well not everyone seems to get it. At least talk of "a time and a place" suggests they don't.
If you don't want to argue the point then don't bother, there is no obligation to do so.
Btw the African Union seem to get it :
https://au.int/en/pressreleases/20220228/statement-ill-treatment-africans-trying-leave-ukraine
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/01/africa/africa-condemns-racism-ukraine-intl/index.html
In this regard, The Chairpersons urge all countries to respect international law and show the same empathy and support to all people fleeing war notwithstanding their racial identity.
Not much talk of "a time and a place".
When it comes to racism I don’t think there is.
What did you want to happen on that thread? Where did you want it to take the conversation?
Racism discussions are good when they are unpicking subconscious bias, and helping us learn where we might be displaying racist behaviour without meaning too (or even with). I've learned loads from these. But the kind of racism on display in the Ukraine crisis is pretty obvious and I'm fairly sure everyone's going to agree with your view.
Drawing parallels between Ukraine and Iraq/Afghanistan is more important though.
Not much talk of “a time and a place”.
I think you've mis-interpreted that comment. I meant that in general, if you jump into a thread where everyone's talking about some tragedy and say 'yeah, well what about this other tragedy?' it tends not to go down well. It makes it look like you're diminishing the original tragedy, so people tend to get annoyed. This is how social interactions work in real life as well as online.
"It was such a relief," he says with a smile."
Not 'arf!
Yes Ed, I know you've got you're own issues with the upcoming elections. We're ok here though, "In Liz we Truss", she can out photobomb any nation, though she's clearly lacking any guidance system.
Ok, we get it! You and Inkster outscore everyone else in the empathy stakes….
Christ, this thread makes me sad.
What did you want to happen on that thread? Where did you want it to take the conversation?
Eh? There is no agenda other than pointing out that people fleeing Ukraine have been exposed to serious racism.
You gotta love this place, full of self-righteous middle-class liberals who will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who says coloured people instead of people of colour accusing them racism, but real racism which affects people's lives and leaves them in stressful and unpleasant situations is dismissed as not important enough to discuss**
Edit :** When it suits their agenda
unpleasant situations is dismissed as not important enough to discuss.
That hasn’t happened.
That hasn’t happened.
Are you following a different thread to me?
What do you think the sentiments behind this comment are?
Ok, we get it! You and Inkster outscore everyone else in the empathy stakes
And the stuff about a time and a place
But the kind of racism on display in the Ukraine crisis is pretty obvious and I’m fairly sure everyone’s going to agree with your view.
Except that lots of people have argued that it wasn't really that racist or even if it was it's not really that big a deal.
It makes it look like you’re diminishing the original tragedy, so people tend to get annoyed.
Irrelevant whataboutery is one thing, but that doesn't mean it's never useful or relevant to compare situations in order to maintain a sense of perspective.
To my mind taking part in ridiculous speculation and obsessing over military hardware is much more diminishing of the original tragedy, but apparently that's an unpopular opinion.
Except that lots of people have argued that it wasn’t really that racist or even if it was it’s not really that big a deal.
I'm just speculating but I wonder - was it white people saying that?
Ernie,
"This isn't the thread for racism, this is the thread for war" they said, "go start another thread if you want to talk about racism", they said.
So I did!
On the plus side you and I are leading in the empathy stakes.
Cheer up pondo, I'm beyond being depressed about it (easy... I meant this thread). I'd have walked by now if I was. There's been some good contributions on this thread and for the rest.... Well I'm picking up few good anecdotes and a meme or two.
And the stuff about a time and a place
The stuff about the time and place I took as referring to starting a separate thread on the issue, not start the discussion in the middle of another.
The outscore comment I took it as people are agreeing with the OP it’s tragic but some how you and him can’t see that. None of those comments are dismissing the situation.
I don't know how much coverage this is getting from British media but it's a story that's been running four days now here:
There's a growing number of Ukranian refugees in Calais being turned back from the UK because they haven't got a Visa having travelled all the way across Europe without a Visa for any country. These people have family or friends they wish to join in the UK rather than being stuck in a youth hostel in Calais.
Yes Ed, I know you’ve got you’re own issues with the upcoming elections.
Three of the high profile candidates playing the anti-immigration, xenophbia/racist card in the hope it will Trump Macron, who isn't exactly soft on immgration himself.
The stuff about the time and place I took as referring to starting a separate thread on the issue, not start the discussion in the middle of another.
The outscore comment I took it as people are agreeing with the OP it’s tragic but some how you and him can’t see that. None of those comments are dismissing the situation.
Thanks Drac I obviously got the wrong end of the stick. It's great to hear that everyone was agreeing with each other.
I’m really struggling to even see what your point is Inkster
As far as I can tell they're arguing that racism isn't OK unless we're prioritising black Britons over white Ukrainians in which case of course that's more important. Or maybe it was the other way around, I've kinda lost track now.
That hasn’t happened.
Are you following a different thread to me?
It’s great to hear that everyone was agreeing with each other.
Please stop trolling, Ernie. You're better than that.
As far as I can tell they’re arguing that racism isn’t OK unless we’re prioritising black Britons over white Ukrainians.
Stop trolling
On the plus side you and I are leading in the empathy stakes.
However, neither of you have commented on Arthur do Val's sexist comments as far as I'm aware - could do better. Unless you think it's okay to ignore overt sexism.
Except that lots of people have argued that it wasn’t really that racist or even if it was it’s not really that big a deal.
I must have missed this so I would really appreciate it if you could link some examples.
What I have seen is some people agreeing that the racism apparent at the border and on the way to the border was appalling, but going on to say that in the context of a invasion and the wholesale shelling of the civilian population it was probably not the most important thing right now. Or to put it another way, if your efforts to deal with the racism are getting in the way of stopping someone blowing up apartment blocks full of civilians, you may just have made a dubious priority call.
I think this is worth posting again (and again)
Competitive virtue signalling is incredibly tedious and maybe a lot of us are tired of the same old posters trying to out-do each other with your oh-so-delicate liberal sensibilities
I used to regard myself as left-wing, being a lifelong Guardian reading liberal, but you lot, dear god….
Everything anybody posts is racist/sexist/somethingist
Bed wetters doesn’t even begin to describe it. You inhabit some kind of alternative naval-gazing universe, stained with the butter drips from crumpets
Unless you express solidarity with the Palestinians twice in every post then you’re a fascist, apparently
It’s quite incredible the threads you derail with your tiresome, competitive self-righteousness and pious, sanctimonious pontificating
And you all act as a gang to shout down anyone who has the audacity to raise any opinion that wasn’t approved by the your messiah in Islington
Maybe you could try not polishing your halo so publicly for the benefit of all of us?
I’ve kinda lost track now.
Evidently.
it was probably not the most important thing right now.
I must have missed where people have claimed that the most important thing right now is racism experienced by people fleeing Ukraine, so I would really appreciate it if you could link some examples.
"if your efforts to deal with the racism are getting in the way of stopping someone blowing up apartment blocks full of civilians, you may just have made a dubious priority call."
How are we stopping it exactly?
"However, neither of you have commented on Arthur do Val’s sexist comments as far as I’m aware – could do better. Unless you think it’s okay to ignore overt sexism."
Told you I'm collecting memes. That ones winning in the whataboutery stakes right now. You may yet be trumped though.....
You could, erm... Go and start another thread?
Oh dear. I think I'll just leave you to it.
Isn't it possible to agree that
A) War is shit
and
B) Racism is shit
at the same time?
To insist on arguing about how the subject was broached seems pretty cheap given what is happening elsewhere.
Except that lots of people have argued that it wasn’t really that racist or even if it was it’s not really that big a deal.
I must have missed this so I would really appreciate it if you could link some examples.
What I have seen is some people agreeing that the racism apparent at the border and on the way to the border was appalling, but going on to say that in the context of a invasion and the wholesale shelling of the civilian population it was probably not the most important thing right now.
Thank god someone managed to explain it better than I was trying to.
You'll find racists everywhere, whether it's beating up a migrant on a Kent beach or blocking a refugee at the Polish border. It's not insignificant, they're incidents which reflect situations in many societies, and the kind of divisiveness that leads to whole nations attacking each other.
One of the absurd ways Putin is justifying his war is "deNazification" or whatever you call it. It's taking a minority movement which exists and tarring the whole of Ukranian society with that brush. You could do the same for Poland. In France you could quote Zémour and tar the whole of French society with being anti-Islam.
I have a half Polish wife and visted relatives in Poland the year before last year. They are as appalled by the government and church leaders they have as any of us. They've stopped going to church - that's extreme for devout catholics - and vote accordingly. They'll be as shocked by the racism at the border as anyone.
Think twice before tarring a whole nation with the extreme acts or views of a minority (except when they become the majority - I can think of an example of that) and do what you can to stop them spreading their poison. I see this thread as taking on the racism apologists on the other thread. I won't call them racists but anyone who tries to minimise racist acts or dismiss them as insignificant in the greater scheme of things becomes a racist apologist.
Not all Poles are racist, unfortunately some are. Not all Brits are racist but unfortunately some are. The Polish border is open but there's some racism going on, the British border is errrr, ask Priti.
Told you I’m collecting memes. That ones winning in the whataboutery stakes right now. You may yet be trumped though…..
It may have been a tad too cryptic.
The story as far as I'm aware was initially on C4 news. The first night they pulled the story (suspiciously) complaining of audio issues - although it felt like they didn't want a negative story from the Ukrainian side. However, they ran the story the next night. A couple of days later Inkster came on berating everyone else for not having mentioned the issue. Suggesting (it felt to me at least) that everyone except them was racist. On a rare occasion I found myself agreeing at least in part with Binners.
To insist on arguing about how the subject was broached seems pretty cheap given what is happening elsewhere.
I was just trying to explain why people were a bit annoyed it was brought up, perhaps not because they're racist and don't think it's a problem.
To my mind taking part in ridiculous speculation and obsessing over military hardware is much more diminishing of the original tragedy
For the record the reason I am.asking questions about tactics and hardware etc is beacaue I want to know if there's any reason for any kind of hope in this situation.
Anyhow...
Her UK passport didn't do her much good did it? I hope that's something we can all agree on. An EU passport could at least have offered her some sort of sanctuary at the border.
And that could potentially be the case for all of us should we find ourselves trying to flee a war zone. We are less protected.
Brexit has increased the possibility that we could fimd ourselves in the position of being a refugee.
even if it was it’s not really that big a deal.
I must have missed this so I would really appreciate it if you could link some examples.
Working on the assumption that grum can't be arsed to respond here's a quick example :
So, I see Korinne from Leicester has managed to make it back home to the UK and has been reunited with her husband and kid after a “harrowing week long journey”. Bless her…
The poster obviously couldn't be bothered to read the article properly otherwise they would have realised that her husband and 11 month baby were with her.
That story received extensive media coverage precisely because of the appalling treatment and racism which it exposed.
Now argue that the poster wasn't trying to trivialise it and claim that it wasn't such a big deal, as I'm sure you will.
Her UK passport didn’t do her much good did it? I hope that’s something we can all agree on.
It got her through the border did it not?
"A couple of days later Inkster came on berating everyone else for not having mentioned the issue. Suggesting (it felt to me at least) that everyone except them was racist. On a rare occasion I found myself agreeing at least in part with Binners.""
Saying that no one had mentioned it for a couple of days is hardly berating everyone is it?
However, if you felt berated over there why have you come over here for more punishment?
I'm not sure anyone escaped the wrath of binners post, when he turns it up to 11 it's hard to work out what he's saying but seeing as it's a popular repost, I'll ask him anyhow,
"binners, do you think I was leveraging racist incidents to diminish the suffering in Ukraine?
Because currently various members who are finding it hard to think for themselves are trying to weaponise your post.
Straight answer or Monty Python meme will suffice.
It got her through the border did it not?
Yeah, she had to join the long slow queue with the other brown people but she got through in the end.
Can't see what the fuss is. It's political correctness gone mad I tell you!
To be fair, a few people posted that they had noticed the story but hadn't posted about it earlier and wished they had.
Same as me. That's why I posted about it. I had similar feelings. Is this the right time to post it? How will it be recieved etc.
Glad I did.
Yeah, she had to join the long slow queue with the other brown people but she got through in the end.
Again hard to tell as there are many stories of short trips of a few hours taking over a day, people queued in cars for days, the borders shutting for hours with no explanation why and only supplies from volunteers. Nothing about them just being ethnic minorities only.
It’s a horrible situation for anyone to be in and awful to think that there may be those waiting longer due to their ethnicity.
I get that our/my focus on the wider war meant we/I didn't give the racist incidents as much attention as we/I probably would have done if that situation had played out in any other time and place.
But being called a racist apologist as a result feels pretty insulting.
I think the point has been made. The way it's being laboured is starting to feel like virtue signalling at best.
In the tsunami of words posted so far on this thread I haven't read anything that will help anyone from Ukraine.
Why not focus on practical help and support?
Lobby your MP, donate, ask yourself - what can I do that will help, in even the smallest way?
The time spent - or, more accurately, wasted - on composing threads could be more productively used.
With that, I'll leave you to continue shouting at the moon.
Nothing about them just being ethnic minorities only.
There's plenty of reports to suggest racial discrimination at the border.
I presume that you didn't read the links on the previous page
https://au.int/en/pressreleases/20220228/statement-ill-treatment-africans-trying-leave-ukraine
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/01/africa/africa-condemns-racism-ukraine-intl/index.html
I have no reason to assume that the African Union's serious concerns are unfounded.
"In the tsunami of words posted so far on this thread I haven’t read anything that will help anyone from Ukraine"
But have you seen anything here that will hurt them more?
There is a Ukraine thread.
There’s plenty of reports to suggest racial discrimination at the border.
I presume that you didn’t read the links on the previous page
You assumed wrong. The word only was the clue.
I have no reason to assume that the African Union’s serious concerns are unfounded.
No or me so I haven’t.
Have you turned your heating down, Frank? 😉
we/I didn’t give the racist incidents as much attention
does not equal what I said:
minimise racist acts or dismiss them as insignificant in the greater scheme of things
Make sure you fit the description before getting offended, MoreCashThanDash, I've lost track of who posted what, but some of it fitted my racism apologist criteria. Racism is still racism in war. Check out which units were sent into some of the worst situations first in previous wars.
It got her through the border did it not?
Rosa Parks journey on the bus got her to her destination,so doesn't really matter where she sat 😕 That a fair comparison ?.
Adds - This isnt a direct dig at you Drac, but of the premise you've proposed in conjunction to what others are saying.
ernie, I tried to put acrooss the point that incidents like these were playing out awfully across many parts of the world and that might just have an effect when it comes to forging allegiances and alliamces etc but you know...not important enough.
I accept there's differences of opinion but I can't see how covering this story is playing into the hands of Putin? He's going to be exploiting the situation for every ounce of propaganda he can get from it regardless, so if we were to try and suppress it, there is more chance the awful behaviour at the border would continue or escalate even more, giving more ammunition to Putin and in that strange scenario, Putin would be the one with his hands on the truth.
Not shining a light on it will only give Ukranian and other eastern European thugs a licence to do their worst. And I fail to see how that would be helping Ukranians in general.
I was one of those who felt the racism was less of an immediate issue given the wider issues with the war. I don't think anyone described it as "insignificant", I think that is an inference others have made.
Racism is wrong in any circumstance, but when you're up to your arse in alligators, draining the swamp is not the immediate concern.
Not shining a light on it will only give Ukranian and other eastern European thugs a licence to do their worst. And I fail to see how that would be helping Ukranians in general.
I'm not sure it's the help that Ukrainians in general need right now.
"Rosa Parks journey on the bus got her to her destination,so doesn’t really matter where she sat 😕 That a fair comparison ?."
Yes, though I'm sure that some will say that sitting at the back of the bus is no great inconvenience in the grater scheme of things.
should enjoy the same rights to cross to safety from the conflict in Ukraine, notwithstanding their nationality or racial identity.
Suggests that people are being singled out based on their nationality or race Drac.
Perhaps they also discriminate against people with beards or very large ears, who knows, no one said that "only" ethnic minorities were being discriminated against.
This thread really is rubbish.