[Closed] I've just set up my own distillery company!

I'll be following your exploits and venture on Facebook anyway but would just like to say all the best!

And should you ever need a crash test dummy for tasting you know where to ask... 🙂

Good for you.
Good luck for the future.

I would work out the marketing/revenue side of things before you do any more.

Work out the revenue opportunities first. Otherwise you will get sucked into doing it, then run out of money and end up as a bankrupt alcoholic.

Focus on one thing and one thing alone. I know a lot of ex-photographers, I cant recommend that as a line of business.

HH, you could literally crash test it if you come visit for some biking too?

Gin to start? Seems to be the favoured approach to get a steady, and fairly immediate, revenue stream.

Do the various craft alcohol fairs.

A nice, unique bottle and a preferred additional flavouring.

Any juniper on the estate?

We have the Lakes Distillery just up the road in Bassenthwaite [Cumbria] .They are doing really well after only a few years, they are selling Gin and a blend [whiskey] before the single malt is ready. Seems to be very popular stuff. They are always busy with visitors and have a small cafe too...

the very best of luck kit 😀

are you in touch with Alan Wolstenholme, chairman of the craft distillers assoc? If so remember me to him! If not, he might be useful for advice or putting you in touch.

As said above, whisky has a long payback period, gin is IMHO close to saturated (opinion, I have no pedigree in the area beyond fascination- and jealousy, a bit) - but Rum's up and coming??

https://www.linkedin.com/in/alan-g-wolstenholme-52a4a810/

That sounds awesome...all the very best to you, hope it is a huge success.

Focus on one thing and one thing alone. I know a lot of ex-photographers, I cant recommend that as a line of business.

The gin/whisky business model has become a popular way of generating revenue while waiting for whisky to mature. I want to explore a different way of doing it, hoping indeed as scotroutes suggests to use local botanics. I have to think hard about whether to have a shop/cafe as part of the business. We are on a quiet country road without much passing trade, and in an area where small local businesses do struggle.

are you in touch with Alan Wolstenholme, chairman of the craft distillers assoc?

I'm a member of the LinkedIn group, and have spoken to Prof. Annie Hill who helped set it up. But not spoken to him directly yet! It's on my to-do list 🙂 How do you know him?

ooh well done

a local Gin distillery here Silent Pool are a big hit... I must admit their Navy strength hit the sweet spot. Farmers markets are also a way to get noticed..

My preference these days is mainly Rye and Bourbon.

All the best Kit.

The gin/whisky business model has become a popular way of generating revenue while waiting for whisky to mature

Gin seems to be very much in vogue but maybe to stand out from the crowd maybe look at[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenever ] Jenever[/url] too. Although until Article 50 is triggered you probably would have to think of something else to call it. I really like it and now that people are becoming Gin buffs the nice thing about Jenever is its good to drink on its own like a whisky - it doesn't need a mixer.

It certainly used to be the case (I'm going back 15 years here) that D&G council were big on supporting and publicising local food (and drink) production. So aside from planning and licensing see what promotion and business support might be available.

Tap into ScotEnt for help. I've been involved recently in a couple of distillery projects from a financing perspective and have also invested in a couple. Definitely think it through and consider short term, production to cask min 3 years if you are going malt route, blends, gin, beer and other stuff in the meantime. Don't oder a Porsche yet ! Best of luck, good on you.

Best of luck Kit sounds a great idea I wish you well, you've inspired me to get back into making home brew it's been a few years but I loved every minute of it even roped the kids in the younger two helped with the mixing,bottle washing and label printing and I was chief taster...everyone one was happy admittedly I was probably the happiest ...

D&G council were big on supporting and publicising local food (and drink) production. So aside from planning and licensing see what promotion and business support might be available.

Hey up - first things first, best of luck with the venture, sounds a hoot.

Secondly, if you're ever on the lookout for anything logo/branding/web-related, we:

- Are about 10 minutes from you (Annan)
- Did your Dad's web stuff a couple of years ago
- Have a fondness and keen interest for pretty much anything that comes out of a distillery
- Know most of the useful contacts at Business Gateway & Scottish Enterprise
- Have a co-director by the name of Kit

Seriously, though, shout if we can be of any help, it'd be a cracking project to be involved with.

James M

James - Creatomatic? I think we found a couple of your Nerf bullets stuck to the windows of the Corner House Hotel the other night 😀

Guerrilla advertising?

I'd visit the lakes distillery to see what can be achieved. Very impressive .
Good luck .

*Cough, erm... They *may*have something to do with us... Depends who's asking 8)

Guerrilla advertising?

I spoke to A Man Who Knows. His reply,

[i]Someone has already given the best advice I could give - get in touch with Alan at the craft distillers association. Lovely fellow, very helpful. [/i]

Good luck, keep us informed on here or post a facebook link.

have a search for ardgowan distillery in inverkip, they have just this week got planning approval for their new venture, sounds similar to you

I spoke to A Man Who Knows. His reply,

Good luck, keep us informed on here or post a facebook link.

Ooof, £12m for Ardgowan! My budget's about 1% of that 😆

He used to run the alginate plant at Girvan, I worked at HQ nr London but was on secondment to the plant for a period for various projects. Truly a lovely guy, he was at a distiller before his foray into chemicals and then went back.

His 'performances' at the various haggis suppers he used to put on whenever we had visiting dignitaries from overseas were fab. As was his clear love of and support for the scotch whisky industry. I always think of his answer to the question about how to drink it...... which was that it was entirely up to you. With ice, neat, with a splash of spring water, ginger ale, coke, lemonade - he didn't care what you put with it. As long as that was how you liked it, and as long as it was scotch and not one of the inferior 'other' types 😉

I went to the City of London distillery last weekend for a gin tasting. I was amazed that the stills were in a room about the size of a single garage. For a brand that has a bit of presence in the market it was very interesting as I was expecting huge amounts of kit but just two stills.
The tasting room had nearly 300 different gins and we were told nearly all of them started up within the last eight years and were trying hard to differentiate with all sorts of botanicals.
Some of the newer companies seemed to be doing very low volume but still making in-roads into the market
Not really much in the way of assistance but I was fascinated by how simple the process was to make the gin. Best of luck. Looking forward to Singleginworld.

Good for you Kit, sounds fantastic!

Best of luck and keep us updated (I've gone right off Facebrag so don't bother with it much now).

I've messaged Alan through LI and linked this thread so give him a call, he really is a top bloke.

I've also been to the Silent Poolplace - one think surprised me, that they don't distil the spirit itself, they take in raw spirit in bulk, mix in their blends of flavours / botanicals and then (re)distil that.

Not moaning - the result is bloody great 😉

Thanks [b]theotherjonv[/b], I'll drop him a line soon!

I believe most small gin distilleries are buying in alcohol in bulk and rectifying with their own botanicals. Kit and time is minimal, so yes, they can be done in a cupboard/shed pretty easily. Distilling from raw materials requires a fair bit of extra investment in fermentation and multiple distillations.

Good luck Kit. Can't do much more than say I hope to sample some of your produce in the future.

Sounds like a really exciting project Kit.

I work in the off-trade in Edinburgh and sell loads of craft spirits so give me a shout if you want to see whats selling really well locally. We also have loads of samples open so you're welcome to swing by and try some of the competition.

I'd say the main selling points for any of our craft spirits are presentation and locality of the distillery, obviously providing it tastes good. Silent Poo(l) is a prime example, it isn't local but it's a tasty gin in a fantastic bottle.

Anyway, best of luck and let me know if I can help from a retail point of view.

Fair play OP. I'm in a similar situation (coming to the end of my Phd, ironically finding it harder to land work than before I started) so will probably be using that tenacity to start my own business in the coming year.

I landed a part time job with a major UK wine retailer to tide me over and I can tell you for sure, the gin "bubble" won't be popping any time soon.

Fifth spire gin was set up by a guy I went on a ride or two with years ago. Think they are pretty small so might be worth a look as a comparable product?

Good luck with it all. Sounds fantastic.

You should check out Walter Micklethwait. I met him on Shed of the Year last year. He won in 2015 and runs Inshriach distillery near Aviemore.
Really nice bloke.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/stv.tv/amp/1342073-this-highlander-is-turning-horseboxes-into-travelling-gin-joints/ ]Gin distillery article[/url]

Best of luck.

Walter Micklethwait launches his new gin venture today with a party at Inshriach (Crossbill gin has moved to Glasgow somewhere). Local botanicals aren't a problem here 🙂

Hey Kit,
Really cool to see another local food/drink enterprise on the cards! I really hope it comes off for you.
If it's OK with you I'll pass your details on to my mum - she's a small scale food producer, just a couple of miles up the road from you (By Heck! jams, jellies, chutneys & marmalades) and also heavily involved in the local farmers market scene. (Be warned though - she talks. Constantly.) The Dumfries market at Tarff Valley Farmers is on tomorrow, might be worth doing a spot of mingling/market research. I'd put you in touch with the guy who makes cider up Langholm way but I can't remember his name (Chris something or other). ISTR he bought the rights to the Langholm Distillery name a few years back with the intention of making something but I don't think he ever had time to develop the idea.
Bit of an off-the-wall idea but have you considered something like a vodka made from milk/whey? I believe there's a successful distillery somewhere in NZ doing it (started as an offshoot of a commercial creamery). It might be possible to do a double act with Arla Foods/Lockerbie Cheese Company (also on your doorstep).
Best of luck,
Scruff

Google turns up one in Dorset called Black Cow doing dairy vodka. I think the NZ one actually does bio-methanol for fuel 😕

Anyway, best of luck and let me know if I can help from a retail point of view.

coming to the end of my Phd, ironically finding it harder to land work than before I started

You should check out Walter Micklethwait.

If it's OK with you I'll pass your details on to my mum

Had a LI message back from Alan W and he's looking forward to talking to you.

Annie's sound, but if you like I can have an ask around on Monday and see if there's anyone else at the uni you should speak to? I need to brush up my distilling anyway, I only know the brewers...

I mean, obviously we really want you to come and do a masters 😆

Had a LI message back from Alan W and he's looking forward to talking to you.

I mean, obviously we really want you to come and do a masters

(You could let me know who she shares an office with - I was introduced to him as the guy who runs the distilling part of the course, but can't mind his name. Cheers!)

Hmm, I thought she was in with David Quain but I'm sure he's a brewer

No, that's not the chap.

Some mecural thoughts

Working capital is going to be your biggest issue

You are proposing to build a small batch chemical factory, don't cuff the process engineering

You are going to need lots of heat, I assume you are off grid, how are you going to generate it? Heavy fuel oil will be dead in the future due to emissions.Renewable incentives have tanked but should not be dismissed

You will generate a lot of effluent that you need to dispose of, how are you disposing of it?

Finally you need to sell your alcohol, what is your route to market?

the value of the distillery tour is very high if you can provide the facilities. Coach loads of foreign tourists might be impossible but they spend outstanding amounts of money in distillery shops

[b]big_n_daft[/b] These are all valid points. The issues of energy, waste and engineering will be covered by a consultancy who specialise in distillery work. What I know at the moment is oil, soakaway and compost, and yes, respectively to those three points 🙂

As for working capital, aye, I need to factor that in and thanks for reminding me to do so. Route to market will likely be online sales, farmers markets, craft fairs and the like until I can secure some outlets (although that'll reduce the profit margin considerably). Definitely will look at the export market too. Scottish booze does appear to hold a certain cache abroad.

If I say I've been talking to a guy called 'theotherjonv'

Jon V and he'll know, especially as i already primed him through LI

I was JonV on here pre-hack but then for some unknown security reason decided to not be JonV again and became theotherjonv. Cunning!

good luck!

There's a guy here - Ed Dodson - who has retired as a manager but seems to do bits of distillery consultancy. Really really nice guy is Ed. Will work out volumes and the engineering required. Also I'm sure would be happy to give input.

[url= http://store.mintel.com/industries/drink-and-tobacco?cat=65 ]There might be a relevant mintel report [/url] which may help. I [i]think[/i] if you are a student/academic you can access these FOC through your institution.

Jon V and he'll know, especially as i already primed him through LI

There's a guy here - Ed Dodson - who has retired as a manager but seems to do bits of distillery consultancy.

[b]willjones[/b] that's fantastic, thanks! I don't get access to the full reports, but the raw data and summaries are available. Cheers!

ah, sorry Kit, meant here as in Elgin. Ed is ex Glen Moray manager. He's not on here as in "S T W" I'm afraid...

I landed a part time job with a major UK wine retailer to tide me over and I can tell you for sure, the gin "bubble" won't be popping any time soon.

The issues of energy, waste and engineering will be covered by a consultancy who specialise in distillery work.

Be careful to get what you need not what they want to give you, be careful to tightly define your needs and the required outputs

Who is doing the planning application? How are you planning to procure the kit, what form of contract, who is commissioning it?

I would read other micro distillery planning applications as they often tell you others mistakes and give you pointers

With regards to waste you may need to bus it off site

Be careful to get what you need not what they want to give you, be careful to tightly define your needs and the required outputs

Who is doing the planning application? How are you planning to procure the kit, what form of contract, who is commissioning it?

I would read other micro distillery planning applications as they often tell you others mistakes and give you pointers

No idea yet about procuring kit. Various options, both new and second hand, through the consultants or direct, UK or abroad. Will need to see what I have to buy before I start shopping!

With regards to waste you may need to bus it off site

I'm pretty confident that I won't be generating anything requiring disposal by a specialist contractor. Again, I'm taking advice on that, though

Your grains, spent lees and pot ale? How are you doing cleaning, caustic?

Where are you getting the barrels from? Where are you storing them?

They work to my specification, in fact I emailed that to them today.

None of this is criticism, and I know nowt about distilling, good luck with the venture

None of this is criticism, and I know nowt about distilling, good luck with the venture

In terms of process it is a simple mass balance, what goes in must come out in some form

SEPA have a soft position on distilleries but are harder on the new ones than the older ones sitting on old water use licenses.

Well, the latest budget is not good news for me, with duty set to rise by nearly 4% (apparently). Also, as a limited company hoping to attract shareholding investors, the taxable dividend allowance has dropped considerably 🙁

It can still be made to work, but a bit of a kick in the teeth nonetheless.

A wee update for anyone interested:

Was at Heriot-Watt today speaking to two of their Brewing and Distilling MSc students, who are going to do some product development and marketing for me. Might actually have something to taste in a few months. That's the easy bit...

...the hard bit being the cost of setting up a distillery! I took on a process engineering company called Allen Associates, who have put together a design for me for the kit. Quite a challenge for them as they're used to dealing with the big boys and their huge budgets. I'm at the other end of the scale, but even with the most minimal stripped down kit possible, I'm still looking at the thick end of £100k!

And that's before I get on to the conversion of the farm building. I've yet to get a cost for this, but working on it. Appointed an architect who reckoned I couldn't do it with the budget I'd set, but that was assuming top-notch insulation, new roof, floor, renewable heating source, etc. I'm torn between wanting to be as low energy as possible, having the place look like a distillery and not an office, and my budget. Work in progress.

Finally, at the moment, I don't even know if the services to the farm are up to job, so there could be a potential massive cost of upgrading the leccy supply, drainage, water and so forth.

Still, it's keeping me busy 😉

And thanks to Craig from this parish for recommending Susanne Masters to me. She's keen to do some work for me suggesting botanicals, but I'm not keen on her price, sadly. Maybe eventually...

Cheers Kit.

Good luck and keep us updated regularly!

Kit,

You're not converting the old Pottery place are you. I saw signs up for a distillery a couple of weeks ago and that's real near your place isn't it?

Only just spotted this thread. Really interesting!
I'm in a position where I want to start my own business full time.
Nice to read through this thread. Look forward to updates!

Best of luck.

[b]perchypanther[/b], no that's not us (although, long story, that building used to belong to my family), that's the Quintessential Gin guys. And yes, near us. We're on the Lochmaben side of Dalton. Presume you know the area - PM me and you're welcome to pop in sometime on your way past.

[b]cokie[/b], hoping it works out for you. Loads of work, hopefully very rewarding!

drainage,

I would contact SEPA and ask for a copy of the letter dated 04 June 2013 from SEPA to the Scotch Whisky Association signed by Calum MacDonald

depending on volume I would send everything to a local AD plant, you should be able to get paid for some distillers materials

Charlesfield Farm and West Roucan Farm, Tinwald are close by

Presume you know the area

We've had a caravan at Hoddom for 20 + years, so yeah, I suppose 🙂

Once you're up an running i'd love to pop along for a taste.

[i]I would contact SEPA and ask for a copy of the letter dated 04 June 2013 from SEPA to the Scotch Whisky Association signed by Calum MacDonald[/i]

Why?

Waste is probably going to go to one of our local farmers under a SEPA exemption but that only covers the wash. Cleaning products and chemicals for fermentation might need dealing with separately.

[i]We've had a caravan at Hoddom for 20 + years[/i]

So you'll have been round the mountainbike track then? 😉 More than welcome to pop in. Any news of imminent openings will be posted here, hopefully!

I just applied for the brewing and distilling MSc at Heriot Watt, though my idea is to set up a brewery eventually. Will be good to see how you get on!

your story sounds very similar to Born in the Borders. Chap there has set up successful brewery based on plough to pint principles and seems to be doing well. He has now converted farm stead on his estate (Chesters) for brewery, deli, cafe and he also has a micro gin distillery in there as well. The whole brand is very active in local pub, festivals etc. They now also run a couple of cafes (in Tweedbank and Gala train stations) and various other ventures.)

He was first seen on Channel 4 Country House Rescue programme with a slightly crumbling estate and a daunting future. It has been really good seen his business develop. From my side of the fence he appears to be doing well, but might be useful for you to have a chat to.

[url= http://www.bornintheborders.com/ ]http://www.bornintheborders.com/[/url]

Hi
I am a mico brewer by trade , been brewing for 30 years so have some knowledge of the business.
Water , Can you get an extraction licence to draw from a clean , sustainable source? PWR require testing and monitoring but once set up its cheap. We have a borehole with 2 stage filtration, plus UV .
Waste water. Expensive to put to drain , a small scale reed bed system with settling tank might work for you.

Waste grains , get a local cow farmer on board . Treat them as a co-product to avoid silly waste transfer laws. You may need to keep a log of who has what and when.

Heating volumes of liquid , direct gas fired or steam is probably the most economical. Calor tanks ( ours ask for re-fills automatically ) are reliable enough. Steam , insurance inspections and servicing expensive , nice heaters in the winter , overly hot in the summer .

Markets. Direct to public via farmers markets or sales after doing tours. People love a tour and most will buy something at the end. You might need some sort of accreditation before looking at regional outlets ( NSF , BRC , SALSA ) Funky glassware is a good selling point as are branded glasses and merchandise.

HMRC are relatively easy to deal with, you may be asked for a deposit or debenture but that might only apply to beer brewing.

You will need an EHO sign off before production can start
You will also need
a Fork lift truck
A set of saccherometers
A refractometer
decent thermometer
ph meter
Iodine
Spent grain bins
Grain shovel
glycol ( MPG ) chilling system .
Chemical supplier . we use Klenzan.
Grains .- Simpson Mcreath worth a look

Waste is probably going to go to one of our local farmers under a SEPA exemption but that only covers the wash. Cleaning products and chemicals for fermentation might need dealing with separately.

If you get the letter it will tell you when "Distillers Materials" are "waste" or not. As avoiding waste classification gets you out of paperwork I thought it might be useful. In addition there is the potential to get biogas from distillers materials, as it's specifically covered in the SEPA letter it should be simple to agree to send it to a agricultural AD plant and potentially get paid for it depending on strength/ transport costs. The plants suggested are under performing on the data I can see and therefore might be good to approach.

In terms of separation of liquid wastes, Distillery AD plants operate outside the permitting regime and nearly all liquids go through the AD plant and some solids in particular cases

In terms of land spreading you need to be careful of the levels of copper, what is the local soil levels and the land use (ie sheep farming is problematic)

Waste grains , get a local cow farmer on board . Treat them as a co-product to avoid silly waste transfer laws. You may need to keep a log of who has what and when.

I'll be travelling south on M74 Tues 23rd and you can buy me a coffee somewhere with a wifi connection and I can elaborate more if you need more incentive to investigate

[b]Kit[/b]: in terms of dealing with your waste you'll be able to feed draff to the coos, pot ale spread to land ([i]though needs a fair amount of admin - speak to SAC[/i]), spent lees and washings need to be treated.

As said above, balancing tank ([i]spent lees - pH ~3, caustic washings pH ~ 11[/i]) should help get it close to 7. Then a simple reed bed or I have heard of small sites like yours letting it run down long grassy slopes.

I suggest speaking with Brian Eaton. He is an independent but knows everyone and the nicest guy you'll meet. Email in my profile if you want his details or a technical chat on anything.

I work for Edrington.

Cheers!

[b]yourguitarhero[/b], good luck! Met the MSc students who are doing some projects for me at HW and they both really enjoy the course.

[b]franksinatra[/b], cheers had heard of them and will definitely get in touch to see if there's any advice there to be taken 🙂

[b]singletrackmind[/b], many thanks for your input! Hadn't thought about a borehole, but I don't think we're on an aquifer. No one round here runs off groundwater. As per other suggestions, waste will go off site, more than likely if I can satisfy either the farmer or the AD of suitability. We're not on mains gas, and no one round here appears to run off Calor. Not sure why, but must be a reason people prefer oil. That's what I plan to run a steam boiler off, as a leccy-powered heated oil system is too much for our supply. Noted re: maintenance costs. Also noted on glassware, although your accreditation acronyms mean nowt to me 😀 Not planning on any formal visitor facilities (yet) as that would require an upgrade to the entrance of the farm, additional license, facilities, etc. But probably a longer term project if things work. Good to know about HMRC, I was dreading applying for my licenses with them! And noted on the kit list, hopefully I'll be given this by the process engineers.

[b]big_n_daft[/b], OK thank you. I'd looked at the SEPA exemptions and didn't know what counted as 'Distillery Waste', so will get a formal clarification. For land spreading, it's up to the farmer. I'll provide him with an analysis of the waste and leave it to him to make that call. He's a conscientious guy, so I've no worries there. But we also have a local AD who might be interested. Interested to know how you know so much about this; do you work for SEPA? If you've got the time to spare, I'm free 23rd. Email me Kit[dot]Carruthers[@]gmail[dot]com. cheers.

[b]teacake[/b], thanks, I'll ping you something soon.

Well...got a rough, but good, idea on the capital needed to get this thing off the ground 😯

The adage about picking a number and doubling it applies here, no doubt. Although, to be fair, a very large portion of the budget costs are VAT (reclaimable, hopefully) and contingency (not needed, again hopefully). Now looking at what grant options are available, and wondering whether I'd have any success with crowd funding. I'm going to need at least some outside capital to make it 'affordable'!

Energy is still a big issue. Probably looking now at running a diesel genny for working the still as a) I can't be arsed with the hassle associated with a steam boiler and b) our grid connection is crap, ruling out a small solar PV array. Not exactly green, but it'll have to do at the start.

Need to tidy up a couple of unknowns, and then I'll be putting in my planning application. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly!

Direct gas fired hot water tank ?
If you making a mash then fermenting the wort then alot of hot water will be required.
[url= http://www.gpburners.co.uk/prodotto.asp?language=&id_prod=89 ]miniflam burners[/url]

Then a nice 4" SS heat coil inside your hot water tank.

China make cheapo tanks , then Greece (olympic) then czech republic and ze germans .
huge feilds of second hand tanks in the UK, Centrplant, Moody , ABUK are some and there are others

We're not on mains gas, and Calor gas is by far the most expensive fuel option (so I'm led to believe anyway, no one round here uses it).

90% of your energy will be for distillation (assuming 2 pot still batch process).

How you heat the still will impact the flavour and ease of control.

[quote=Kit ]yourguitarhero, good luck! Met the MSc students who are doing some projects for me at HW and they both really enjoy the course.

I got in. Now off to visit loads of distilleries this summer because I don't actually know how spirits are made!