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...and even with all the ongoing update annoyingness there still isn't one as good as this one, hey?
I think the main reason is still simply the fact that all the threads are all listed together (not counting the classifieds, obvs!) making it really easy to see if there's a new post, which in turn makes the forum feel more lively.
tribal forumism is a curious concept! 😆
tribal forumism is a curious concept!
If you hum it I can play it lol
You have got to be kidding. This forum is a ****ing nightmare with no jump to first unread, all posts still showing after they have been read and only two sections? Where are we, still in the '90's???
Unsure, I'm a relatively unknown here and I'd be a complete stranger anywhere else. This place is dying, visit numbers are up due to the way the site now works, but the spark has long gone.
If it can be saved it'll be a massive uphill battle to bring it back.
Saying that, the users who are still here are still incredibly knowledgeable and helpful, that has been killed - which is a real benefit.
Other places will be available but until you have spent time there, it'll never feel as 'good'...
I've been on forums that were better formatted ..but alas they are no more !
You have got to be kidding. This forum is a **** nightmare with no jump to first unread, all posts still showing after they have been read and only two sections? Where are we, still in the ’90’s???
The no jump to first unread is annoying, in fact there's not even a jump to the last comment to be fair lol. However I really like being able to go over the old posts and only having two sections- which can be seen as one anyway- has always been one of this forum's great strengths for me 🙂
I've been on here since the year Dot & before the Great Hack (when was that again?)
It's crap now.
I can remember a time when if I post didn't get a response, it dropped off the first page in about twenty minutes. Now it can sit there all day.
It does feel like people are contributing less.
This forum's simplistic, some say dated, layout is actually a big strength.
It focuses attention on popular recurring threads and is brutal in quickly dispatching ones that don't engage. It also gives equal exposure across all areas encouraging a broader spectrum of responses. The lack of DM is great - transparency wins.
Definitely needs better tracking of one's own threads though...
Did you check out mumset?
Well there is an update on the pop ups and redirects from Cougar in the sticky, whilst it’s been a proper PITA if they have ringfenced the issue maybe folks will come back..
As is, I think the vast majority of posters are a bit bored TBH.. Taking an “natural” break, doing something else or possibly just have nothing to say. Maybe it was a sort of forced break taking the issues into consideration.. but we lost a lot of the very active hitters sometime ago.
Its certainly come to something when the EU thread drops out of view for a few days..
You want to bring back the forum glory days? Easy.
No swear filter and bring back Kylie Friday. Simples.
I came to this forum from another as the owner of the forum believed it ( and forums in general ) were dying a death ..he probably had a point to be fair ...so closed it down without warning ( which was more than a little annoying to me at least)
That particular forum only had about 100 members with probably only about a third contributing at the end ..but it was cosy 😁.
This forum is fast paced by comparison ..but it's layout falls way behind for all of the reasons listed above ..
Forums are dying ..enjoy it while it lasts ..
I like the overview format. Another successful forum I was a member of when I lived in loLond was lfgss and that folowefo the same format and made this place look quite even this place a few years ago. It's (single track) still a good forum but this forum update has been less than wellndone but I expect whoever is doing it has learnt a lot but I don't think the forum will fully recover. It still more interesting than work!
What about Reddit? Start a STW subreddit?
Where are we, still in the ’90’s???
I think a majority of posters would like that to be the case. The 90s was brilliant.
I like the simplistic layout but am getting increasingly frustrated with how slow it is to load threads and post replies, I tend to give up and go and waste my life on facebook or try and find something interesting on youtube 🙁
As with the Bike magic forum the format has changed and some dont like change, so they leave or actually ride their invisible bikes, or even drive their audi car and join a car forum.
The indepth discussions and cut and paste wars seem to have abated since the change along with all the arguments of trivial stuff.
People are fickle and easily annoyed.
You have to make it very simple and easy and dont piss them off.
We expect stuff to work well and without any annoying bits. Simply having to login every few days is annoying enough to stop people using it. Sure it can be quick to log back in, but such a small issue is all it needs to push someone away. Especially when the internet is full of things crying out for your limited attention span.
It's a competition, the winner is the fastest least annoying site with the lowest intrusion from adverts.
It's not rocket science.
"The 90s was brilliant"
Musically yes, but the bikes were awful.
That particular forum only had about 100 members with probably only about a third contributing at the end ..but it was cosy
A couple of things here for context,
1) STW has about 1.5 million visitors per month.
2) See the 90-9-1 rule. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/participation-inequality/
Is that the site as a whole, the impressions per page, the main stw site, the forum, the classifieds or the amount of times 100 users have to re-log in ??
@cougar, maybe the update could use that rule to tell us who is a lurker, contributor, or big hitter.
Forums are dead.
Pinkbike for the news and then their comments for the fights.
Less ebikes, gravel and no road. It's the winner...
I think a majority of posters would like that to be the case. The 90s was brilliant
Have you tried Retrobike? 😉
Actually RB is a good example of over complication in a forum. Far too many little sub-forums for every little subject. Some posters never leave there little clique, i.e. pre-97 roadbikes, or 70's BMXs.
At least the simple 2 (well 3, but we don't talk to the classified only oiks) section format means we all mingle, thus promoting wider viewing and discussion of topics.
Cougar ..I don't really understand why you had to re-quote part of my post ..I already stated that the STW forum was fast paced in comparison ..but not neccessarily better .
Have those figures shown an increase over the last year ..or like other forums ( as impressive as they are ) been in decline ?
i read the thread, i decide to comment, i have to scroll to the top of the page to login, that delivers me again at the top of the page, i scroll back down to the reply box.... most often i give up before this point.
its basics
loads of complaints about the popups, adverts etc. tbh both Win7 IE and Win10 Firefox browse the site fine, but if i cant rattle off a response easily, i give up, then i dont read another thread. Comments not welcomed/valued clearly, despite the oft quoted page views figure.
still cant beat a bit of forum naval gazing
The 90s was brilliant.
you should try the STW search ‘function’. That only searches the 90s.
What a fascinating article. I wonder if it still holds true though, given that it was written 12 years ago (and updated in 2009). The internet and user engagement has changed enormously. Facebook is, what? 15 years old? Smartphones have been on the rise since 2010. I'd genuinely like to see an up-to-date survey.
The term 'contributor' could probably do with a very specific definition!
Agreed. For years it was part of my nightly pre going to bed routine. Not been on here for weeks now due to it being a bit rubbish.
I don’t really understand why you had to re-quote part of my post
Only to provide context as to what I was saying, sorry, it wasn't a direct reply beyond wondering whether your "only a third" was possibly optimistic.
Have those figures shown an increase over the last year
As far as I'm aware they have over this time last year.
What a fascinating article.
I thought so. I already knew the basic principle (it's what reminded me in the first place and as you say it's a pretty old study) The Wikipedia bit was surprising.
<mod> if this thread drifts into another "problems with the forum" thread I'll have to close it, there are already two concurrent threads discussing the recent popup issue and the longer-running upgrade discussion. Please keep those comments to those threads then everything is in one (two) places. </mod>
Where are we, still in the ’90’s???
The '90's were the best time to be alive, all been downhill since.
For technical bike chat with people who seem pretty clued by I find mtbr pretty good. You'll sometimes get manufacturers on there replying as well.
For me it's a bit slow though due to the time difference.
The ’90’s were the best time to be alive, all been downhill since.
I think you'll find that was the seventies. Although the internet forums weren't up to much back then.
This is a cycling forum? Wowsers!
All I get is silly pop ups that cover the threads, a quote option that doesn't work, and when I use my phone it puts words in that I'm not typing.
Also, WTH is singletrack tech, where did that come from? Do tech forums have bike sections?
Former heavy user of WhatMTB and Bike Radar. Both arguably had a better interface but I've hung around on here because the forum is / was a lot more lively and the majority of the posters seem more knowledgeable.
The quality of chat and advice for off-topic stuff is hard to beat to. Ultimately this forum isn't Singletrack's core business. It really up to us lot if we want to keep this place lively
Def a lot quieter recently (at least in the Chat forum, I rarely visit the Bike forum these days...). Still worth visiting but at some point I guess it risks being in a downward spiral as less posts means less reason to visit. I assume the forum update is the main reason, although at the same time, unless there's some alternative forum elsewhere people are using, if you want to post about something I'm not sure the forum is now bad enough it would stop me wanting to?
Personally I think the problem lies in the constant politics and religion arguments and peoples general lack of respect* rather than the format of the forum.
I like the basic nature of the site, things like jump to last read would be nice and the recent speed, or lack of, is frustrating but the site is easy to navigate. Not sure I want to carry on paying for my P, but I really don't want the hassle of the redirects.....
*this seems to be a general internet wide thing where people just speak to others in a way they just wouldn't in real life. Or maybe it's just a lack of tone or body language thing. Whatever it is it just seems nasty and rude a lot of time.
Cue some one saying "U alright hun" or calling me a snowflake......
I think the forum update is fine, surely its the constant redirects that are causing a drop in posts?..
Not had one today though!!!
Personally I think the problem lies in the constant politics and religion arguments and peoples general lack of respect.
Respectfully, 😉 I would disagree. One of the main reasons I like this place is because it is safe to challenge accepted norms, (unlike faceache groups where IMLE it’s a big cosy agreeathon for fear of getting booted) but importantly people mostly challenge appropriately, in contrast to say, YouTube comments which are often just full of unadulterated juvenile abuse, often jingoistic,racist, homophobic etc in nature.
It’s good here; people think about what they want to say, mostly say it politely, and but don’t seem afraid to share their real opinions.
Also, having actual grown* up discussions about religion and politics without either a) it descending into really nasty vitriol, or b) it just being an echo chamber of like minded people is a genuinely rare thing on the internet or indeed in Real Life™️ these days.
*Everything is relative; give me this one 😜
peoples general lack of respect*
Well, with the greatest respect kind sir, I think this place is about the most respectful internet forum I've come across.
Compared to some of the cesspools that exist on the bottom half of the internet elsewhere, the majority of post on here are respectful, reasonably well informed and on the whole clearly not deliberately trying to offend.
Its not a safe space, people are entitled to air views that you might not agree with and you can of course choose not to bother with threads on topics you know will be contentious.
So off you pop treacle 😉
Personally I think the problem lies in the constant politics and religion arguments and peoples general lack of respect
Hasn't it always been like that?!? 😉
Just goes to show how differently people view the forum.
Politics/religion/any other big argument doesn't bother me because I stop reading when I get bored (approx 10 secs)
I do like to be able to go back to threads I've contributed to so I can see what info someone else may have added and that is not so easy post update. I've found the mobile site less user friendly since last autumn too. For those reasons I probably use the forum less than I used to, it's just that little bit more effort than I can be bothered to make.
MTBR and Pinkbike I like for different reasons (loads of good info in the MTBR forums) but in both cases the screen is a little too busy for viewing when you should be working in an open office
MTBR and Pinkbike I like for different reasons (loads of good info in the MTBR forums) but in both cases the screen is a little too busy for viewing when you should be working in an open office
I agree about how busy some forums look, I've always liked how simple this one is and it's been great to see that carried over into the update. Maybe that's why this forum is so full of old giffers like me! Lol
For technical bike chat with people who seem pretty clued by I find mtbr pretty good. You’ll sometimes get manufacturers on there replying as well.
Some great stuff on mtbr and it's been going ages - but have you ever seen a more fragmented forum? 130 sub-forums on mountain biking sounds like a deliberate joke. Still, if you want to know what tyres for 29er gravel fat bike ridden in the state of Arizona, they'll be someone there to tell you.
Still, if you want to know what tyres for 29er gravel fat bike ridden in the state of Arizona, they’ll be someone there to tell you.
Pretty sure someone would be along to advise on here if asked...
You generally can't fault this place for someone being able to help out with something entirely random and off the wall.
Having said that, no one has been able to tell me what the theme tune to mine heist on Netflix keeps reminding me of.
Having said that, no one has been able to tell me what the theme tune to mine heist on Netflix keeps reminding me of.
Dire Straits innit.
That opening bit is very Knopfleresque. Telegraph Road maybe?
It's certainly not what it was. You do get the occasional good thread but they are getting fewer and farther between. True, it's still my go to place for advice but for entertainment or a gentle bit of time wasting, no. I pop in now and again from the office but very rarely from home.
Can't put my finger on what it is, maybe it has just run it's course.
>Politics/religion/any other big argument doesn’t bother me because I stop reading when I get bored
+1
>Well, with the greatest respect kind sir, I think this place is about the most respectful internet forum I’ve come across.
+1, in a league of its own.
>It does feel like people are contributing less.
Yep, site visit numbers might be up but the Chat Forum (only part I look at) is much quieter after the great cock up (upgrade) recently.
>Can’t put my finger on what it is, maybe it has just run it’s course.
Self feeding cycle, people post less, so less to respond to, so you come here less frequently and post less etc. Making the whole forum unusable for a month or more was an interesting business decision.
Making the whole forum unusable for a month or more was an interesting business decision.
Intentional. The word you're looking for is intentional. It's all going according to plan. Apparently.
I'm not convinced traffic is up. IIRC the one day Mark referred to as being "the busiest ever" was also the day that The Beast From The East hit. Far be it from me to suggest there just might have been a correlation.
You must take into account the term “busiest ever” and 1.5m views per month... because those figures are misleading, thay maybe true, misleading by intimating that it is a common everyday occurrence.
The forum isn’t STW, it’s a sub segment. The main site page will have views and impressions, these can be identified are recurring (same user) or single impression.. stretch that out to the forum segment and there will be a log of all current users logged in, and unique visits.
So, add both together and you may indeed hit those figures once, maybe three times a month.. but in plain view are the post count on the forum alone and we do single this out because we use this segment most. We all know posts are down, users we know and have known for some time are no longer here. Few posters are new and we see threads last longer without response.. views we have no idea and can only speculate on the amount of folks that pop in, get pop ups or redirects or other forum issues then leave immediately.. Yes they may come back to see if it’s all clear, so another impression, but if they get hit again that’s pretty much it for thier UX.
Seasoned posters hang around a lot longer obviously, but even those are thin on the ground lately.. we can only speculate as to whether it’s the forum issues or they’re just bored.
Make your own informed decision on that.
Unusable for a month but some how people are/were still posting. Seems unusable is bit of an exaggeration.
Having said that, no one has been able to tell me what the theme tune to mine heist on Netflix keeps reminding me of.
Do you mean Money Heist? The Spanish one? I' watching it now but it doesn't seem to have a theme tune. Or is it at the end?
Unusable for a month but some how people are/were still posting.
Nothing like a healthy dose of sarcasm to keep your more respected long term subs paying forum members happy, eh Drac?
😉
<div class="bbp-reply-author">shermer75
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Having said that, no one has been able to tell me what the theme tune to mine heist on Netflix keeps reminding me of.
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Do you mean Money Heist? The Spanish one? I’ watching it now but it doesn’t seem to have a theme tune. Or is it at the end?
Yes, I do mean Money Heist. Opening credits as the lyrics start. I feel like there needs to be one extra note and then it would be something else. It's really bugging me.
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>Nothing like a healthy dose of sarcasm to keep your more respected long term subs paying forum members happy, eh Drac?
They quite clearly don't give a shit about forum members, they're just chasing the 1.5m random bods who browse a page, see 234 random ads / 67 pop ups and then go somewhere else thinking 'WTF was that?'. I assume they somehow get money from that and it's the new business model.
I subscribe £12 per year to a motorcycle forum (BMW).
Now that is a lively place.
No swear filter and lots of banter.
Sections for touring, technical, for sale, and The Pub amongst others.
Yes it has frequent posters and lurkers. I'm probably in the middle.
Easy to post, quote, link and upload pictures.
Nearly a picture to every post!
This forum is absolutely fantastic. Knowledge, humour, empathy, dignity, sympathy, innovation, all mixed in with ignorance, apathy, small-mindedness, anger, regret, aggression and idiocy.
To me it's a fair representation of the human condition. At the end of the day it's a bunch of people of all ages, backgrounds, experiences and beliefs (assuming of course that they are all Audi driving, IT middle managers from Woking) thrown together as a result of their love for (occasionally hatred of) mountain biking.
It's made me laugh so hard I've spilt my tea/beer/pina colada on the keyboard, so angry I've put my size 12 through the screen and sent Chipps the bill, sad enough I've occasionally found the room getting a trifle dusty and surprisingly often its made me feel good about people and humanity in general. There's also been a lot of good advice, some of which I've taken onboard. And I've learnt a fair bit about bikes along the way too.
I really, really hope that it has many, many years to go and that the characters, personalities and Lings that make it what it is continue to do so.
I really hope this place gets back to what it was but they've got their work cut out.
The rollout was a total **** up, there's no other way to describe it. That pushed people away (I don't believe user numbers).
The new version may be responsive / mobile friendly but it wasn't that bad before but it now comes with ads everywhere* (gotta make money, get it), that it feels really clunky, especially with poor page load speeds.
> don't show people a message saying they're not logged in without putting a login link in the message <
That said, for advice and general politeness, this place is hard to beat, even if it is heavily populated with audi driving, orange riding, quinoa eating Guardian readers.
* I don't use an ad blocker because I'm interested in how different brands use different formats and approaches
I’ve just visted. MTBR for a quick look, I think I probably have signed up years ago. Seems there really is 130 different forums to post on, loads of ads especially that wide banner on the right. Loved the retro 90s look off the forum layout and font style though.
> don’t show people a message saying they’re not logged in without putting a login link in the message <
This.
It's the simple things. It's really not that difficult (only it seems that it is for STW). I wonder if there have been some personnel changes within the web team at STW. The intuitive usability of the site, which always seemed to be a conscious focus just seems to have evaporated. Make it easy to use or unless compelled, people won't use it.
My work offer remote access to network drives via VPN, and would prefer everyone to store their work there rather than on Dropbox et al. However, half the time the VPN is as slow as this site, and the other half the time you need to work on a file with an external collaborator and simple file shares don't allow that. So, despite us having a nice secure in-house set up, because it's a PITA to use, we still all use dropbox.
Loved the retro 90s look off the forum layout and font style though
Yeah, me too. It's good to see some things aren't changed just for the sake of it.
They must have some proper high-end techies working on their site though, what with having a "last post" column
Screw the last post functionality.
I want spam statistics and to know when to say happy birthday to strangers on the internet.
Yup but after 17 hours I’d struggle to remember who posted last DezB so that is a handy feature.
Yup but after 17 hours I’d struggle to remember who posted last DezB so that is a handy feature.
Are you missing the point or ignoring it?
This forum is absolutely fantastic. Knowledge, humour, empathy, dignity, sympathy, innovation, all mixed in with ignorance, apathy, small-mindedness, anger, regret, aggression and idiocy.
Spot on.
And I agree the entertainment value has dropped off a bit, I try to keep it light and fun (when I'm not debating the merits of tyres or flaming Tory ****wits), but there seem to be fewer contributors with the same attitude recently.
Still nowhere quite like it for obscure tech Qs or route inspiration though.
I've just had a speculative mooch of the non-forum part of this website. Reviews of £1500 wheels, £6000 bikes. Quite a niche target audience for that? I don't imagine that even a high percentage of enthusiastic mountain bikers would consider spending that much money. Certainly not going to attract the average person thinking about taking up the sport.
Are you missing the point or ignoring it?
Just being his usual hilarious self 😆
Are you missing the point or ignoring it?
None of the above.
I used to be on Rotorburns a lot. It was just like here but with swearing and rude pictures.
Now it is really dead. Shame.
I now get my rude pictures and jokes on the chat bit of a motorbike forum that is mostly full of racist arseholes.
The actual motorbike bit is quite good for the adventure stuff.
They must have some proper high-end techies working on their site though, what with having a “last post” column
Poor DezB trying to get another laugh from the same joke.
Cycling UK Forum is ok, but can be a joyless place - no fish puns in techy threads, be warned! A few of the more genuinely knowledgeable people from here are regulars.
MTBR - Too American. The level of blind fanboi obsession and the constant push for the new is wearing.
YACF has lots of useful info, crossover with the Cycling UK crowd, but feels less formal.
Retrobike seems fun.
Not tried any others.
Apart from here I'm on YACF, Bearbones and bikepacking.net.
YACF feels quite Audax oriented.
BB and bikepacking.net are obviously bikepacking oriented.
Only really dip in to MTBR if a search takes me there, as noted above 130 sub-forums is daft: I'm surprised there isn't a handlebars sub-forum (maybe there is). Cycling Uk is another one that I'll only really visit via search - hmm six sub-forums for classifieds. 😉
The question is, do any of the other forums repeatedly, give you the chance to win an Amazon voucher or new phone?😀
According to a post the other day MTBR does.
[i]CountZero wrote:[/i]
Still, if you want to know what tyres for 29er gravel fat bike ridden in the state of Arizona, they’ll be someone there to tell you.
Pretty sure someone would be along to advise on here if asked…
Do they make fat 29er Conti Vert Pros?