[Closed] I've got no kids so where's my £460k gone?

Ah, you can afford a hat then?

>£10k/year to have a child? What does it eat?

Reading it where?

Reading it where?

Euripides & Gethsemane are doing very nicely @ Latymer Prep thanks

>£10k/year to have a child? What does it eat?

****ing everything.

Mine will be shocked when they get presented with their bills ...

During the first 5 years it costs a damn sight more than £10k and the last 3 years (18-21) will no doubt make the first 5 seem like a picnic.

I've read that figure before. I think it includes an estimate of lost earnings for the mother, cost of full time childcare, uni tuition fees.

I don't think most people's children cost them £230k. Or if they do, it's a sunk cost, in that you don't miss the money 'cos you never had it in your hand, sort of thing.

I'll take that figure seriously when I see a breakdown. Junior is going through uni and still doesn't cost me £11 000 a year. They must be including opportunity costs, assuming the parents are too rich to receive any benefits and pay for a lot of non-essentials. I doubt he cost more than he saved us in tax for the first few years.

The Guardian.
Apparently it's gone up 65% since 2003!
Mind you, who's going to look after me when I'm old and dribbling on my slippers?

If I didn't have 2 kids I'd probably have new stuff regularly and some more exotic holidays so wouldn't be much better off financially.

Stuff doesn't love you though, nor shit on your carpet...

I used to go out 2 or 3 times a week, and could easily spend £100 or more on a night out.

Nowadays, we're lucky if we go out once every couple of months, and even then it usually doesn't end up in a 3am taxi ride home....

More to the point really, I seriously don't know how I could ever have afforded them in the first place?

Think of it as an investment, I'll be needing someone to wipe my arse and change bags soon. Payback time.

smother you with a pillow to get their grubby little hands on the inheritance early more like 😉

I doubt he cost more than he saved us in tax for the first few years.

What tax saving do you get by having children?

I can see it, talking from a 32 year old perspective who is earning and whose peers' are earning 30k+ a year;

My childless friends are driving lease/hp bmws/audis Im driving a 10 year old high mileage mondeo with a death rattle.

Childless friends have Dslr cameras with 600 note lenses. I have a camera phone and a 99 quid canon.

Childless friends have goretex pro berghaus, northface walking gear. I have regatta/craghoppers.

Childless friends go to Vietnam, Australia, Thailand etc. We go fuerteventura or camping.

Childless friends have top end bling carbon bikes. Mines mid range.

Childless friends have 4k curved 10 bit hdr screens with full sky package. I've got low rent 4k on tick with Freesat.

Childless friends buy named brand food and goods at supermarket. I'll buy own brand weetabix they'll buy the real deal. They'll buy nurofen for £3 instead of 40p ibuprofen.

Childless friends go clothes shopping and spend 60 notes plus on a pair of jeans or a couple of hundred on a jacket. I buy supermarket clothes, primarni or eBay specials.

That's my observations. Its not something I regret. Our children were planned and we knew sacrifices would have to be met for many years. I'm looking forward to the childcare bill going down once school starts so we can have a bigger house as currently childcare is akin to a second mortgage and we have two good wages coming in to the house.

Junior cost us ~£7k pa for the first few years in nursery costs alone,i can believe the figure

Mines in the bank, should've saved harder. 😆

I was pondering something similar only the other day - I've never been a great saver but since 'housegate', which has required taking out 0% cards and then paying them off to do renovations - I've paid off the best part of £20k in 3 years.

Twenty effin' grand?!

I would never have saved that (I wish I had), but I clearly never noticed it flowing through my fingers beforehand. I guess it's the same with kids, in that you just adjust?

Can't say I really notice missing out on much either. Definitely drink less 🙂

Mines in the bank, should've saved harder

Hug your wife.

Jeez, even the US has a child tax allowance but the UK doesn't seem to.

I don't honesty think the "life cost" is £400k+, there are plenty of families on minimum wage making a living and bringing up 1-2-3 kids, obvz that figure is taken from a wildly high socio-economic demographic.. at least I think it is.

Neither of us wanted Kids, I do count myself lucky in one respect, but it ain't all spendy spendy new toys every week I can tell you 😕

Neither of us wanted Kids, I do count myself lucky in one respect, but it ain't all spendy spendy new toys every week I can tell you

not all it's cut out to be, even when they get to the age of 28 they don't seem to get their share of rounds in 👿 😕 😉

On nice things and bikes 🙂

Mind you, who's going to look after me when I'm old and dribbling on my slippers?

I'd probably be a damn site wealthier if every couple of months I'd stuck away £100 for the new pairs of shoes my imaginary kids needed?
It's mad really because I don't go out that much, don't buy new bikes (I'm still on a 26er) and don't fritter it away on clothes. I don't really know anyone else who doesn't have children so I don't have anyone to compare myself to.

we ve two gurls.. 11 and 14.. all in .. food clothing travel school i d say they probably stand me at about 120 each a week..they are oretty low maintence money wise dont ask for anything material pretty good kids all in....the thing that really sucks is the time.. every evening except weds, is pre booked thats 6 till 9 usually saturday mornings and sunday mornings every week plus extras..three mornings a week means leaving at 7am on the school run and two evenings a week finish work early to pick them up 12 miles away.. dads taxi is NO fun its long boring hours for little personal gain.

We burn though £11k a year at the moment in childcare alone, they don't need much food that's non-standard anymore. Making stuff from ingredients rather than pre-made stuff means a bit more doesn't really factor.

They've taken over my clothing budget - I'm wearing a 'new' t-shirt at the moment, it's 3 years old ha ha.

As for the OPs question - **** knows, all I know is this - when I worked in finance I used to finance new M3s, Caymans and all manner of fancy stuff, it would usually be under a grand a month but I always though "I could never afford one of those" and I couldn't, I couldn't 2 years ago either, and now we spend that much on nursery and we're not starving, I suspect if I looked again in 18 months when the littlest started school I still couldn't afford one. (Partly because they seem to be 70k now) but I have to assume parents use magic - it gives you just enough to get by, but not enough to live it up.

4 kids 2 still at uni, lost income from her indoors over 25 years = at least £500k the figue quoted is too low.

Add in the rest of it then i estimate my (our) cost is well over a £1m and counting - house deposits for 4 of them is going to to at least £140k and there is no inherited money to come our way.

Its one hell of a commitment

How many bikes have you bought?

Be honest.

My childless friend has...

A 400K + house & no mortgage.
4 renty houses, 2 with mortgages.
A 2016 motorhome, paid cash.
A 2012 Freelander, paid cash.
His Mrs works in an estate agents office.
He's next bike purchase will be a Santa Cruz of some description. He'll pay cash.
They are however thinking about getting a dog. (but probably won't)

Both very happy without rugrats.

I think i have earned over the last 37 years around (in todays money) £1.5m quid so 2/3 has gone to my kids in some shape or form.

If i had not benefitted from buying and renovating property had my own business and a final salary pension i would be destitute. Its more than a little sobering.

Probably had 15 motorbikes and 3 mountain bikes (some sold for a profit) over 40 years.... total investment £50k sold most for around £40k - so £10k of selfish money over 40 years.... proper waster me (£4.80 a week)

Never really thought about Funkmaster Jr in financial terms. Whatever he costs us he's already given back ten fold and he's not even three yet. Love the little mad man. Only downsides are being down to one, rarely ridden, bike and watching the house fall to bits and not having the cash to fix it. Should be better once Mrs Funkmaster returns to work, roll on school starting.

We burn though £11k a year at the moment in childcare alone

Presumably so you can both work? Hence nett profit?

Not in comparison to a childless dual-income couple, no.

One child here in nursery, the costs are way over the price of our mortgage. It's far from bankrupting us but is certainly a factor in making us think we don't want a second one

Ha! We've just this evening been going through our budget as we're about to move into a new house and, well, kids might be soon on the horizon.

Funnily enough, the figure we came up with after some cursory googling was.... £10k per annum.

Maybe the Guardian just did the same googling as us 😀

Can believe the numbers. £1k pcm in nursery fees at the moment, and wife down to a 4 day week. Also need to factor in it will be harder for the both of us to progress our careers whilst we are knackered/have less time to worry about work/focus more on the kids. But that is of course our choice and we are expecting our second..... I'm looking forward to feeling like I've had a massive payrise when they go to school.

£1k nursery fees, per month !!

K'neil.

😯

If we'd not had kids I reckon the 'savings' would have let me drive a nearly-new Bentley, changed every 3 years or so 🙂

That's taking into general costs, nursery, schooling (private), CSA etc and getting the 3 of them thru to driving (and 1st year insurance), living accommodation when they first left home plus assorted costs of their 1st houses.

But I also reckon without having to pay for all that I wouldn't have earned as much (because I didn't need to, maybe) - partly based on the lack of 'drive' I see in many childless friends.

Wouldn't stop me doing it again though. For example, my Father died yesterday evening and the eldest drove north first thing to come and comfort his Grandma (300 mile round trip). Middle is away with work and youngest is local.

That's what we're getting told, £50/day apparently, although the average we saw when googling was something like £200 a week. Still, £800-1000 assuming you're both going back full time.

We're already discussing my wife going back 4 days, 1 day working from home, and me continuing full time but maybe passing on the next pay rise (if there is one) in order to work from home on Fridays. Annual saving for me working from home 1 day a week would easily be bigger than the sort of incremental pay rise we'd usually expect anyway (our company seems to work on a tiny/no raise-tiny/no raise-decent raise cycle and we're back to square one next year anyway :roll:)

partly based on the lack of 'drive' I see in many childless friends.

Heh...those losers.

These stories are always so misleading. They get people thinking "but we don't have £10k spare a year", and don't show enough relevant detail to indicate that you don't need £10k spare to keep up with the costs of a child!

Nursery costs can be negated for many people with family help, with part time working (depending on income), or if one of the parents doesn't work anyway (yes, there are people out there who don't work, imagine!). Food isn't significant, nappies and wipes are covered by child benefit anyway, items such as prams can be bought and sold for basically nothing overall, clothing can cost buttons if you don't mind used or cheap supermarket stuff.

Ok, I can see teenagers getting expensive. But I'm just expressing my dislike for such headlines!

PS I'm sitting here with a 3 day old button in the basket next to my desk peering at the strange new world around her. Not for a second am I thinking how much she's going to cost. It's just life, and I'd sooner give up my business, home and health than change my life to one without her.

Some of you pay more in childcare than I earn with the part time job I have to avoid paying childcare 😯

@glasgowdan I'm not sure they're misleading - they're true and accurate example of Day to Day, Month to Month costs. Like any other "major life event" it can be very expensive, it can take a lot of time and effort - mostly though it 'just' takes sacrifice, everyone does it differently - some give up work, some go part-time, some are lucky enough to have an extended family to pitch in, some don't, but no one has it easy.

Still, I've had money, and I've had kids - I prefer kids, i like them more than Sportscars and Fancy Holidays, which is handy I guess.

Congrats on the little one BTW!

Losing most of wife's income for a few years is a cost but she went full time when son started at school with a job close to home which is very helpful. Son loves all the extra activities he gets to do to keep him in school longer such as Judo. Financial impact isn't really noticeable for me at the moment, as just means I save less but I suppose I'll be working longer than I would have to if stayed childless.

Biggest pain is not being able to ride as much as I want.

This thread makes me wonder how low paid working people manage to raise children.

This thread makes me wonder how low paid working people manage to raise children.

We're on a single income of 27k gross with a mortgage and we get about £80 child benefit. Missus is a stay at home mum, but junior goes to Tumbletots, swimming and other groups with her. We get by and she loves being able to spend time with him. I'm jealous having to go to work five days a week.

As others have said different people find different ways. I suppose it comes down to what you want from life and what you're willing to sacrifice. Different things work for different people.

Very similar wage as funkmaster. My salary and the £80 child benefit is the only income that we get.

It is tough at times and will be tough when the second one arrives but we get by. As the wife didn't have a profession it wouldn't make sense for her to work full time to just about cover child care costs.

I'd like to lease a new car but for the moment I can't. Once they start school the wife will find a full time job so fingers crossed that we loss of earnings will be relatively short term.

Those figures will apply to some families but it just depends on how you approach it.

I suspect that kids cost £10kpa in the same way that a wedding costs £30k.

I pissed my money up the wall and got us in the shit quite some time before we had kids, incidentally 🙂

Jamie - Member
Heh...those losers.

Young kid can easily be >£10k per year just in childcare if you both work full time. That's an after tax £10k so a real kick in the balls.

We're probably not any worse off in terms of spending less than we earn each month, but that's mainly because we tend do more local stuff now. A nice walk in the hills, a visit to a swingpark and picnic is now a fun day out. Previously we'd have blown £300 on fuel and accomodation for a biking weekend away 2 or 3 times a month.

house deposits for 4 of them is going to to at least £140k

Dont they have paper rounds by now 🙂

That £140k comment made me laugh too!

Yes it can definitely be done cheaper and I do wonder about reducing my hours to reduce childcare costs with all the tax and we'd qualify for child benefit it probably wouldn't be much of a material impact. Be career suicide though, if it was agreed. Would have to drop down a couple of grades which I may well do.

Don't get the comment about people without kids being less driven. I was far more career minded as I had more time to be and not much else. Now I think about £ per hour / total time away from family / stress / prospects and aim for the sweet spot of best efficiency

When number2 arrives and the other half doesn't work for a year we will be in deficit. I've worked out I'll need 6k more than we will earn. Luckily it's set-aside. Would be a nice bike that.

It is about sacrifices, no holidays abroad for 3 years now and I cycle to work most days and drive a 1998 pug probably the worst car in the work car park. We rarely eat out, I go for a beer and curry maybe once a month at the local. No real massive outgoings other than the mortgage.

Don't get the comment about people without kids being less driven.

Why did the £140k house deposit thing make you laugh glasgowdan? Its £35k per child and the ones who have left uni have good jobs and dont waste money so they have paper rounds

The term is childfree. Childless implies a loss. Its certainly no loss not having children.

That's taking into general costs, nursery, schooling (private), CSA etc and getting the 3 of them thru to driving (and 1st year insurance), living accommodation when they first left home plus assorted costs of their 1st houses.

A lot of that you don't have to spend (everything except general costs/nursery really!) so go ahead and get your Bentley. 😉

Why did the £140k house deposit thing make you laugh glasgowdan? Its £35k per child and the ones who have left uni have good jobs and dont waste money so they have paper rounds

I'd guess it's because most people have to save their own house deposits.

I am sure we have discussed this before but it is all bollox. A quiet week for the news so this sort of stuff pops up.

We all work hard for our money and we all spend it. Be it on a house, car, holiday, hobby, children, pets etc.

Have a think how much you have spent on gas, electric, council tax and petrol over the last decade. That's also a big number, and an even bigger one if you work out the pre-tax number.

Whats the alternative, scrimp, save and be miserable your entire life so you can end up with a big bank balance when you die?

slowoldman - Member

Don't get the comment about people without kids being less driven.

No that's complete drivel.

Yeah, total toss.

In my experinance the most driven people tend to be the childfree ones.

Our savings were well invested from the start and have paid for our early retirement 🙂

As has been mentioned, most of the 230k is the opportunity cost of a part time or non-working parent, so people on lower paying jobs (or: people who's spouse wasn't going to work anyway!) never lost that much in the first place. But for us I reckon it would probably have been more. Not saying it's best not to have kids, but we've been happy with our choice.

I think kids cost you whatever you want them to cost you. Okay, that's a bit facetious, but every time I've seen an actual breakdown of calculations like this, it includes horseriding lessons or something like that.

I earn probably quite a bit less than the STW average - certainly less than median income. We do okay with one kid. We don't go on snowbaording trips to Switzerland every year any more, though probably could afford it if we wanted to.

It's just a matter of deciding what you actually need to spend money on.

In my experience I see no correlation between drive and how many children you have. Some people are career-driven, some people have kids.

As for the OP, it does seem like a huge amount of money. I appreciate, however, it will be an average. There will be parents sending kids to expensive private schools, taking them skiing in Davos every year and buying them new cars; the cost of all that will be dramatically swinging the average. We have 3 kids and I can tell you with no uncertainty that we don't spend £30k a year on them. If that *is* the average we will end up spending on them, we have some very nasty surprises in future years.

As for the OP, it does seem like a huge amount of money. I appreciate, however, it will be an average. There will be parents sending kids to expensive private schools, taking them skiing in Davos every year and buying them new cars; the cost of all that will be dramatically swinging the average.

It looks like more an aspirational value for the middle classes than an actual average. Most people bringing up kids earn far less and so don't spend/lose anywhere near this much.

bencooper - Member

I think kids cost you whatever you want them to cost you. Okay, that's a bit facetious, but every time I've seen an actual breakdown of calculations like this, it includes horseriding lessons or something like that.

Yeah, there's always a bit of humblebrag with anything that mentions the dirty business of money. £140k for House Deposits, totally unavoidable cost that, it's life or death init.

There is a minimum though, I think if you're thinking of having kids you do need to at least have a vague plan for family finances, it won't survive the first week, but at least you know it is possible, time to get creative.

And dare I say it online, some people, and I include myself in this have to decide that if you want to maintain the sort of lifestyle you want (a very modest one at that) you might have to increase your debt level, at least for the first few years. We've sort of stayed steady, My wife cries that the CC balance has crept up £500 in the last couple of months, but we've been paying off her gradutate loan at £200 a month so we're treading water really.

[i]A lot of that you don't have to spend (everything except general costs/nursery really!) so go ahead and get your Bentley[/I]

Kids are all grown up now, so my new 435d will have to do 🙂

partly based on the lack of 'drive' I see in many childless friends.

It's called contentment 😉

I can believe the figure, although I reckon ours is lower as our combined wages aren't and weren't megabucks. We're in an average house. Etc.

However, lost earnings for one partner alone make up a huge amount over the course of years. Childcare is huge, too. When you get to two kids plus you can forget it being worthwhile trying to keep up two jobs.

The actual ongoing food/school/clothing/must-haves/etc bill is not that massive for us (yet). I imagine that all goes tits up around college though.

I wouldn't swap the little monkeys for the world though.

I guess they are also factoring that if you have multiple sprogs you may need to shell out for a bigger house?

Much like the average wage figures, if you take out the big spenders/earners then the average cost for the remaining 90% will be considerably lower.

Overall cost is clearly variable, and they do cost a lot, but if you think about it in monetary terms you've missed the point

I guess they are also factoring that if you have multiple sprogs you may need to shell out for a bigger house?

Need to, or want to?

I guess they are also factoring that if you have multiple sprogs you may need to shell out for a bigger house?

Need to, or want to?

I guess there's another "compromise" in there too. You could be 30 and living in a 1 bed £1m* apartment in central London, living the high life. Or you could be 30 with 2 kids living in a far less glamorous 3 bed in one of the less nice suburbs (where the 1 bed flat might only be £200k but you can get a house for the £1m). So it's only a cost if the real alternative is a 3 bed house in Belgravia.

*I put something lower, but it's a London example so.....

The "lost" earnings point conveniently ignores the fact that one or other parent might actually quite like spending more or all of their time at home with their young family, rather than in an office somewhere...

Figures seems about right to me, mine costs at least that much as nursery for for 3 days a week is ~ 10K alone.

Extras such as cots, pushchairs, clothes, childseats, nappies, wipes, carriers, books easily push the costs over 11K a year and that excludes all the social stuff and we get *a lot* of secondhand/pre-loved stuff.

Its worth it, but it is pricey; and I'm not counting the 40% pay cut for my other half and the way its ended her career.

Thing is to me, if you are looking at your child as a 'cost' you are missing the point; as for me you get a lot more back than you put in.

The "lost" earnings point conveniently ignores the fact that one or other parent might actually quite like spending more or all of their time at home with their young family, rather than in an office somewhere...

And a childless couple might want to go ride their bikes, or sail round the world.