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Even those that can afford it, can’t easily.
I don't use trains but you're absolutely right, I'd love to emigrate. I can't even afford to move to a less shit part of Sheffield so I'm stuck on monkey island for life I think.
Yep my daily return, has just gone up(albeit 40p to 8.00 quid) So i know im a lot luckier than some.
But given that I can park in Newcastle for 6 quid a day, its starting to test my resolve to try and use public transport.
It's what people voted for in May 1992, instead of having a publicly owned system.
What went wrong was the Tories expected the railways to die once broken up, so they could tarmac over the routes. Yet in fact without so much Gov interference, it actually expanded!
Trains around here are just not reliable any more... I used to to commute by train just a few years ago.
I don't blame the staff for the strikes, but that coupled the inherent unreliability and lack of security, especially on late night trains has forced me back into car ownership.
I haven't even owned a car for about the last 7 years but now I have too.
Nah..I'll become a pariah if I do that, I'm not senior enough!
Hmm, Modern Railways magazine this month has a graph of comparable fares against inflation and diesel/petrol costs. The rail fares, generally, follow inflation in the graph, they were a little above the prevailing inflation from 1998 to 2021, but tracking it,but have actually fallen below the RPI rate for the past 3 years. Starting in 1995 at a base point of 100, rail fares are now around 120, RPI is 133, Fuel is way above at around 155, with fuel dropping for the last 18 months from a high of ~178 in 2011 and 2022. Of course there are outliers, the unregulated fares are on a par with fuel prices, but also, some unregulated fares can be so cheap that you wonder why they bother collecting the fares.
Ilkeston to Nottingham return gone up from £6.70 to £7.
£6 to park in Nottingham, plus £4-5 to crawl in traffic to fet there.
The hour a day I don't spend in traffic is worth every penny.
Shareholder value you ****ing plebs!
Hmm, Modern Railways magazine this month has a graph of comparable fares against inflation and diesel/petrol costs.
at least if I were to drive I'd be guaranteed a seat!
the astronomical price i pay for my season ticket wouldn't sting anywhere bear as much if the trains weren't so unreliable, overcrowded and stressful
I pay >£7k a year for what in theory is a 35minute journey into London, 3 times out of 10 theres no seats, and im delayed by anything from a couple of minutes to an hour 7 times out of 10
Local trains seem ok - I can park at a free car park and get on a train from keynsham to Bristol for about £6 return. Car parking is at least £9 and you have to sit in traffic for ages if you try and drive. Less than 10 mins on a train.
Bristol to Cardiff is also decent - think it’s about £15 return off peak and is quick. Driving into Cardiff is horrific.
Bristol to either Reading or London though is outrageously expensive. Advance singles are £243 return or anytime travel card is £283. This is for a train that takes 1 hour 16 mins to London. You can save a bit with split save (£178) but aren’t guaranteed a seat and the train can be mental busy - especially on the way home from London at peak times.
I can actually drive to slough, leave the car there, train into London, get a travel lodge for the night back in slough, train back into London the following day and then drive back home for cheaper than 1 peak train trip to London.
Shareholder value you **** plebs!
What Shareholders?
The railways [1] are run by the Government, prices are set by the Government, and all fare income goes to the Government. The Train Operating Companies no longer take a cut of the fares, they are on a fixed price contract to run them, they are just management companies, subbed’ by the Government to run their trains. Despite many left wing views, the railways really are government owned and run, the DfT make the decisions, their Management Companies have to implement the governments will. That’s why we still have strikes, as the Government will not settle with the Workers, the (true) private companies have settled, so do not suffer from any strikes, the government run ones are still in dispute. Blame the DfT, the Treasury and the Government, as they are manipulating the dispute, rather than trying to settle it. Also, the overcrowded trains all over the Country are a direct result of Government interference. It isnt that there are too few trains, there are lots of spare trains att he moment, its the DfT have said reduce the trains in service to cut costs, so we have fairly new trains (some at less than 5 years old in a 40 year life span) stored without further use. Of course, they still have to pay rent for those trains, so benefits are minimum, with passengers paying the price by having to stand on their journey.
[1] There are still a few private companies who can do what they want, such as Lumo, Grand Central, Hull Trains etc, and also the Unitary Authorities, Liverpool , Newcastle, I think maybe Birmingham, TfL, and a few others. These are not governed by the DfT, apart from having to apply to run their trains,they can charge what they want, and run when they want.
Of course there are outliers, the unregulated fares are on a par with fuel price
My commute went up by 100% last year (and that is with convoluted split fares). I don't think fuel has ever done that. When I took the job I was completely oblivious to the fact that the whole network is not protected by the standardised increase. East midlands rail can go **** themselves
Edit- I have recently discovered it is up to £3 a day cheaper to buy a ticket for one stop further down the line (using the same train). Technically against the t&C's of an advance ticket, but just another example of the total bullshit of the fare system
The Train Operating Companies no longer take a cut of the fares, they are on a fixed price contract to run them, they are just management companies, subbed’ by the Government to run their trains.
Which doesnt stop them making a profit and paying out dividends to the shareholders.
You also miss out the rolling stock companies which are a great money spinner for minimal risk.
Those withleft wing views do know the government exercises a lot of control. It just the tories have the normal right wing fantasy about the private businesses being able to run things better which keeps the tories wasting money paying them to do a job that the direct state managed lines do better and cheaper.
Rarely use trains, and they are un-reliable. Commute on the bike !
Which doesnt stop them making a profit and paying out dividends to the shareholders.
You also miss out the rolling stock companies which are a great money spinner for minimal risk.
I’m not defending it, as its a right mess from top to bottom, but the years (they were few) where running a train company was like prinitng money are long gone (also, many lost vast sums, but you dont hear about that). The Management Companies do make a profit, but, in the grand scheme of things, it is minimal.
Rolling stock, yes, a decent business to be in, but not as good as it could be. Hitachi are taking the pee with their Contract for the IEPs. But, that is the fault of the idiots in the DfT who specified the trains, then ’negotiated’ the liflelong contract to supply and maintain them, which was 3 times the cost of the incumbent trains in use on the ECML/GWML. Of course there would be a cost increase over 40yo trains, but 3 times more expensive, for what was a similar service?
However on the other side we have Beacon Rail, who supplied TPX with their new (in 2020) locos and coaches for the Liverpool to Scarborough services having to take back their stock after 3 years, as the DfT have told TPX to cut costs (why do you think Manchester to Leeds is always packed?). Add in the hundreds of other trains stored acrosss the Country, and owning a rolling stock supplier is not looking that rosy at the moment.
Most of the Rolling stock Cos borrow huge amounts of money to finance the build of the trains, the government did not want that debt on their books, so are happy for the RSCo’s to carry on financing the buying of trains, even though it would be cheaper in the long run to buy and maintain themselves via a British Rail type Company. The running of railways, especially since privatisation is a complete f up. No-one will say it has been done well. BR was run really well before it was privatised, it had divided itself into different business divisions,which were exceptionally well ran compared to todays mess. Of course, it was all split up, and lots of people left the business, leading to the spate of crashes in the late 90’s early 2000’s due to lack of maintenance and general cut backs in safety critical systems which would never have happened under an integrated rail system.
For a govt that wants to kill trains they are throwing an awful lot of money at them. £11Bn in 2023/23. The average fare covered less than half the actual cost.
https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/rail_subsidies_to_cost_taxpayers_1_300_each_by_march_2023
The running of railways, especially since privatisation is a complete f up. No-one will say it has been done well. BR was run really well before it was privatised
I'm certainly not suggesting that privatisation has been good, but was BR that good? The 1988 Clapham Junction disaster was the result of shoddy quality practices, overwork, and under investment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Junction_rail_crash
The average fare covered less than half the actual cost.
Yup. And I rarely pay any "fare" to use a road, not matter what I'm riding or driving. Transport infrastructure can't be entirely paid for by charges on use. It never has been, never will be. Same as anything we all depend on working, even when not using it directly ourselves.
"For a govt that wants to kill trains they are throwing an awful lot of money at them. £11Bn in 2023/23. The average fare covered less than half the actual cost."
However, they also contribute a shit load to the economy.
"The UK railway sector supported £42.9 billion of economic production and was associated with 710,000 jobs and £14.1 billion in tax revenues in 2019,"
https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/resource/the-economic-contribution-of-uk-rail/
I don't know where block quote button has gone...
Local trains seem ok – I can park at a free car park and get on a train from keynsham to Bristol for about £6 return. Car parking is at least £9 and you have to sit in traffic for ages if you try and drive. Less than 10 mins on a train.
That's because you're on the Southampton to Cardiff line and monitored, and also have a couple of other trains through, north of Bristol and using the crappier trains it's a pain, i rarely use them now, our train gets bumped into the sidings so the Cardiff, or Birmingham trains can get through if running late, it's embarrassing to think a train running on time can be sidelined for 15 minutes so they can clear the tracks for the train that is monitored on performance!
Then in summer when it's warm we'll see the system melting and have signal failure and so on, it's creaking on these lines, did they ever electrify all the way to Cardiff?
"Transport infrastructure can’t be entirely paid for by charges on use."
Road users pay more in taxes than the cost of roads.
Road users pay more in taxes than the cost of roads.
Source?