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better aerodynamics from using 1x and mechanical gains from larger chainring, straighter chainline.
Dylan Johnson touched on this sort of stuff in a video with the Silca guy, talking about SRAM's strategy in particular of SMALLER chainrings and smaller (9 or 10t) sprockets. They thought the mechanical losses from wrapping the chain around smaller chainrings and sprockets weren't worth it, and also talked about chainline. I could believe that a mammoth chainring, reasonably large sprocket and straighter chainline might make up for other losses (I've always felt that for a similar ratio, being in a bigger chainring always felt better, perhaps this is why).
What disturbs me the most is the relative freshness that the top riders finish the races / stages. MVDP in Paris Roubaix looked as fresh as a daisy.
Sort of why I'm still a WvA fanboi, when he wins he looks like he's burying himself (snot dangling, grimacing etc) whereas when Pog and MvdP go there's no real drama, it's just like they've taken the decision to finally start trying and just ride away from everyone. Even if it is just pure, raw power and talent I find it hard to empathise with or engage with. Makes the rest of the field look amateur as well.
Ineos using the classified hub system
SRAM had a 3x9 Dual Drive years ago. I'm surprised that the losses in internal hub gearing are less than the aero losses of a (manual) FD, given they are all running a chain guide. Nice that they built it into a disk wheel though.
‘As for the race, anyone else just assuming that Pog will find a way to find more time on everyone today?’
Today is the one day he is guaranteed not to gain anytime.
It’s a rest day……
Yep, rest day then tomorrow is a short day (only 142km) starting in Pompeii and ending with a summit finish although it's not one of the ridiculously steep things, general consensus seems to be it's a big ring smashfest type of climb.
The final week is going to be the good part with Stelvio, Mortirolo, Livigno and into the Dolomites. This week has some more sprint stages plus some of the roads from Tirreno-Adriatico.
Word has it that the Stelvio may be cancelled due to avalanche risk.
Pog is a funny one, I think if there was a suspicion that he was doping, that other riders would speak out, or at least speak of him in unfavourable terms, but watching the TV and listening to Cycling Podcast interviews and others, his fellow riders seem to hold him in high regard and seem to like the guy?
With regards to him competing for so many stages to win, ultimately with him, i get the feeling he is a racer, he doesn't have the clinical edge that we saw with Sky/Ineos, he seems to genuinely enjoy himself, and in the past this has has been to his detriment, how many times has he had some stage wins, and some great attempts at stage wins, only then to blow up in the 3rd week and fall apart, but he seemed to be having fun doing it. In the same way, you don't see Jonas or Primoz (when healthy) racing so many of the classics, Pog seems to want to win everything
Stelvio is right at the start in the stage that goes over it, so it’s more there for attrition than to be raced flat out as it would be at the end of a stage. Its removal would probably be less impactful to the race as a result.
Pogacar is such a phenomenon. I’ll forever hate seeing UAE win, but he comes across as personable as he is fast on a bike. I enjoyed watching the ride video he did with Matt Stephens on YouTube. (I would post a link, but I appear to be unable to paste it here…)
probably could manage to put time in everyone else on a rest day though
https://twitter.com/IsraelPremTech/status/1790276827430175193?t=vLarvhWUpNCTUIfRtSv0BQ&s=19
That's a shame. ☹️
Also out - Olav Kooij, The Stelvio 🙁
https://twitter.com/vismaleaseabike/status/1790276914260607346
I might use one of the stages as a drinking game. Every time Sean Kelly starts a sentence with "Yes, well..."
I reckon I'd be hammered within about 2hrs.
Good stage, nice to see some of the "other riders" featuring for once. That's a very select group left on the mountain now.
Giddy Aunt I'm down to 5 riders in velogames.
Well done to V. Paret Pantre, but you and your brother need a pie or two.
Also it's been great having Ineos pro rider Luke Rowe as part of the commentary team. He's a natural. His insights have been spot on and also he knows many of the pelaton riders well. Let's hope he becomes a permanent fixture when he retires.
need a pie or two.
Belleville Rendez-vous vibes....
Another one bites the dust - there's definitely something going round the peloton
https://twitter.com/vismaleaseabike/status/1790640872750567724
Ooh, messy sprint and a crash mid-bunch. Thought it might have been an Ineos rider went down but it was an Arkea rider. Ineos did a cracking job keeping G up the front on the run in to get to the 3km safe zone before the sprint teams took it on.
Average speed for the first 30 mins of today's stage is 57kph /35mph. 🤯
Should be a good one today - if they've got any legs left after the opening 50km!
need a pie or two.
Belleville Rendez-vous vibes….
Just to go back to little Paret-Peintre, I put my 13 year old daughter on the scales last night, just to compare. She's tall for her age, but skinny, and weighs 2 kg more than our stage winner. Freaks, every single one of them!
How lovely that the Polti KOMETA team are offering bottles and gels to Alaphilippe from their car. Go Julian.
I'm not watching live btw.
I wonder what the French is for ‘ram it up your hoop, Patrick’
Brilliant ride by Alaphilippe. So good to see a break avoid being hoovered up by the pelotone (Sean Kelly) in the last 5 metres.
Mmmm I wonder if Lefevere will let Lou Lou ride La Vuelta Espana.
Might not watch all of today's stage live then.
Maybe just turn on after 60-90 minutes and use timeine markers to skip tothe attacks, then watch the last 20km or so?
Lovely recap of yesterday's breakaway effort here from Marco Maestri
https://twitter.com/TeamPoltiKometa/status/1791214897138659466
And a quick link to the league
https://www.velogames.com/italy/2024/leaguescores.php?league=347313627
Word is there might be crosswinds.
Might not watch all of today’s stage live then.
The Breakaway saying that this is the flattest road stage ever in a Grand Tour and that includes some of the stages they've had in the Netherlands!
Race just starting, an ultimately doomed breakaway containing riders from the 2 Pro-Conti teams has been allowed to disappear up the road immediately then the sprinters teams shut the whole thing down in the peloton. Rumours of crosswinds further down the road but everyone is just relaxed at the moment. Going to be a pretty dull day until the final 20-30km.
I wonder what the French is for ‘ram it up your hoop, Patrick’
Lol, yep. **** that guy.
Please can one of the commentators come up with an adjective other than "pan" to describe the flatness.... 🙄
Saw Robbie McEwen previewing the parcours - "The are some spikes in the elevations. Don't get excited, they're bridges"
Saw Robbie McEwen previewing the parcours – “The are some spikes in the elevations. Don’t get excited, they’re bridges”
Once did a 150 mile sportive called "Flat out in the Fens", 96% of the route was below sea level, and i ended on 68m of climbing in 150 miles, they were all bridges, so dull i looked forward to corners for something to do....
Ey up something has happened!
Ineos drilling it out of a corner and creating splits. Milan, Merlier, Pozzivivo, Gaviria amongst others dropped
Ineos have just blown the race to bits - around a 90 degree corner and they smashed it out of that cutting a big swathe into the peloton, a lot of people caught unawares. Pogacar safely up in the front group - that could have been interesting if he'd been towards the back!
This is suddenly quite fascinating. Lidl-Trek really caught unawares and chasing hard, it nearly came back together then suddenly the gap went back out again, the rear group then split into two.
It will come back together but there's a lot of shredded nerves all of a sudden.
Perhaps went off a little earlier than expected, but a mostly boring stage with a breakaway dangling of the front door and then a frantic finish
Itt no 2 today. 31km, mostly flat. Another highlights day for me
Itt no 2 today. 31km, mostly flat.
excellent - got stuff to do
Same here - riding today then I'll watch tomorrow's Queen Stage.
The are some spikes in the elevations. Don’t get excited, they’re bridges
When I lived in Shoeburyness it was an utterly flat ride below sea level to work on Foulness with the exception of one bridge. On some days I could be crawling up the bridge in a 26,28 gear or I could be flying up it at 25 without trying. If there was a day without wind it felt very very strange. Sometimes you had a head wind or a tail wind both ways. Best days were when you could pick up a lift behind one of the big tractors and sit right on it and barely pedal.
Is there any news of whether the full Stelvio climb will be used?
I'd heard there were concerns about avalanches and they were considering shortening the stage
Is there any news of whether the full Stelvio climb will be used?
Inrng has updated their website with the stage to be used tomorrow. They're not using Stelvio at all. Originally the plan was to go over it from Bormio, they then changed the plan to climb about 3/4 of Stelvio and then turn left, pass into Switzerland and descend the Umbrail Pass but that's now changed again to omit Stelvio altogether.
I climbed Umbrail a few years ago. KOM on it was 45 mins, done at the end of a monster Giro stage of 220km with about 5000m climbing. My time up it was 90 mins and I needed to stop 3 times for gels and to dunk my base layer in a mountain stream cos it was absolutely baking hot.
They are doing the Mortirolo though but from the easier side. I remember hearing an Aussie ride leader in Bormio briefing his Aussie group on their ride that day (imagine this in an Aussie accent...)
"OK guys, today we're gonna ride the Morti-rollo. It's ****in hard. Morti is Italian for death - cos you could ****ing DIE on this one! OK, we all good? Let's roll!"
As rider briefings went, I felt it left a bit to be desired...
Rouleur magazine have a preview of tomorrow's stage too. They've got the date wrong (showing as 15th but they mean 19th, maybe they've got it confused with the actual stage number (15) )
https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/giro-ditalia-2024-stage-15-preview
Inrng have the day's preview up:
https://inrng.com/2024/05/giro-stage-15-preview-livigno/
Looks like the weather might be quite changeable at times...
220km+ distance
5000m+ climbing
I can't even fathom those numbers on a bike. 🤯
I can’t even fathom those numbers on a bike. 🤯
I can fathom the numbers, it's the fact that it only takes them about 6hrs that is absolutely mind-blowing.
That'd be an all-day ride for me, like 7am start to finish before dark. And I'd need a lot of cafe stops.
I'll be honest, apart from the scenery, today hasn't been up to much. And now with 15km to go, Pogacar has done his predictable launch and buggered off up the mountain.
It's kind of like having a Premier League footballer turn up to the pub 5-a-side or having a PhD student take an 11+ exam. They're just so much better than everyone else, it kind of ruins the whole thing.
Boom!
Arensman, got out of the saddle and went **** that!
I've ridden these roads. Not at this speed but it's a cracking descent into Livigno. There's a bike park up there as well. Had loads of e-MTBers cruising past me on the climb as they headed up there. 😂
Catchy catchy or no?
catch
caught
Boom!
that was a brute of a climb!
I really, really, really want to believe but….
I know - even Armstrong had the decency to look thoroughly ****ed on stages like that!
On the other hand, Pogacar is beatable. By Vingegaard at the Tour for one. I think the "problem" at the moment is there's maybe 6 guys in men's WorldTour who are head and shoulders above everybody else. MvdP, WvA, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel...
And when only one of them is there, it's kind of like the Premier League football analogy I made earlier.
So, what do we think? Is this Pogačar fella in with a shot here or what?
I don’t know how he does it. I’m sure he is passing all the anti doping test but to be that much better makes me suspicious. A sad state of affairs
Someone flagged his ride on Strava!
It got quickly reinstated but I can just imagine the former KOM holders on dozens of segments getting the uh-oh email and finding themselves out of the top 50 and with a completely unattainable new KOM time! 😂
A sad state of affairs
I agree. Part of me thinks that this generation aren't like the riders of decades past, but part of me also understands that if teams think they can get an advantage, they'll use it, and for all the clean riders there's still exemption certificates and "vitamin injections"
I think the “problem” at the moment is there’s maybe 6 guys in men’s WorldTour who are head and shoulders above everybody else. MvdP, WvA, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel…
The difficulty is in explaining the size of the gap.
It's not something I worry about too much, I'm enjoying the spectacle, but I'm not sure if I'm witnessing some of the greatest athletes of all time, or one of the biggest doping scandals...
When Sagan was in his prime, he was considered one of a kind, a once in a generation talent. He was still famed for coming second in most races because he was a marked man and winning is hard.
These guys are riding everyone off their wheel with ease. I don't think we've ever seen anything like what Pogacar is doing in the modern era. Maybe my memory is hazy but even the likes of Armstrong and Pantani don't come close. There's been a complete change in the past couple of years and I think there's some good healthy discussion to be had as to why.
The difficulty is in explaining the size of the gap.
in G's case he said he was on a "bad" day before the attack and didn't even consider following when Pog went. And it got cagey behind.
At this point, I'm almost looking forward to the doping scandal, just to find out what sort of Super-Soldier Serum they're feeding these guys. In the meantime, the possibility isn't detracting from the spectacle for me, although it's much better in races where there's another competitor on Pog's level.
220km+ distance
5000m+ climbing
That’d be an all-day ride for me
That's about a month's worth for me
On a side note...
Saw last week's stage up to Prati di Tivo live.
The GF was wondering why lots of people were talking about focaccia.
The GF was wondering why lots of people were talking about focaccia.
Pop her in front of Eurosport commentary and she'll soon find the Kelly pronunciation: POGger-charr
Plenty of speculation over at The Clinic. Pog can only beat who turns up, and the most pertinent comment is probably that the Giro attracts a second-rate field compared with the Tour and there is therefore no real competition.
Or he could just have an e-bike 😀
Is anyone else playing the "What shoes is Orla wearing today game?". It's all be a bit restrained so far with yesterday's fringed boots being the most out-there fashion so far.
The difficulty is in explaining the size of the gap.
As mentioned above - no-one was able to go with that attack (bearing in mind it's at altitude, at the end of a brutal day and Pog is already minute up the standings so realistically it doesn't matter if he's 5 minutes up or 10 minutes, up, he's pretty much got this won already).
Going after him risks blowing instantly, dying a death and watching all your rivals gain minutes on you. GC 2-5 were in that group and it's all really close between them. Everyone is on "preserve current position" mode now. The fight is no longer with Pog; G is fighting Dani Martinez and Ben O'Connor for 2/3/4, there's a further battle for 5/6/7 who are all really close (plus Arensman and Tiberi are in their own little fight for the White Jersey, only a few seconds in that one)
So everyone got really cagey, everyone was already on the limit anyway and meanwhile Pogacar could just ride away and do his own thing - that's why the gap opened so quickly and by so much.
even Rafal Majka got back on the group of chasers at one stage as they were fannying about and only lost ~45s on G by the finish.
That’d be an all-day ride for me
That’s about a month’s worth for me
I'll join in your grupetto.
Pog can only beat who turns up, and the most pertinent comment is probably that the Giro attracts a second-rate field compared with the Tour.
A bit of an unfair comment on the other riders but by that logic there are probably only 2 or 3 "first rate" riders.
I was wondering whether G has one eye on the Tour, Jonas may not be fully fit, Pog maybe cooked, Primoz will crash, Remco has a habit of going bang in the high mountains, so if he's there or there about he can steal it on the final ITT stage into Nice
The difficulty is in explaining the size of the gap.
As mentioned above – no-one was able to go with that attack
I was referring to the perfomance gap between the top few riders (Pogacar, Vingegaard, MVdP, etc) and everybody else. Pogacar has done this consistently in every race he's ridden recently, attacking from any obscene distance he chooses and with success each time.
It's just as questionable how Vingegaard was able to win the Tour by 7 mins.
Prior to these guys, these kinds of performances weren't considered to be possible. In fact they were considered less possible over time as training, nutrition and technology became more finely tuned and aligned. Yet there's been a massive shift towards superhuman performances at the front of the race. However you explain it, the question why fascinates me.
Looks like the local were having fun at Livigno - I don't recall seeing this on the video feed
Edit - you can see the kicker as he passes under the flamme rouge at 06:55:37, but the skiiers must have jumped after the camera bike passed - no bad thing if anything had gone wrong!
there are probably only 2 or 3 “first rate” riders
A few more (and discipline dependent; e.g., Ganna). But not a lot. G is not one of them. Second place yesterday won the Giro ten years ago.
“ Is anyone else playing the “What shoes is Orla wearing today game?”.”
Just no.
She is so awful we don’t turn on until they switch to the live commentary and turn off immediately when they hand back to her cackling in the studio.
It’s just as questionable how Vingegaard was able to win the Tour by 7 mins.
Prior to these guys, these kinds of performances weren’t considered to be possible
Mercx won the Tour by over quarter of an hour once and destroyed other riders in tts, single day classics and tours. Anquetil won the Tour by quarter of an hour also. If anything Pog is less spectacular as Mercx raced a lot more.
On the other hand, Pogacar is beatable. By Vingegaard at the Tour for one.
Vingegaard can only beat Pogacar in very specific scenarios IMO. I don't see him as generally being on the same level.
I mean he's beaten him at the last 2 TdF, that's a fairly decent and also fairly broad scenario!