[Closed] It's a bad day when education causes inflation increase

the bbc news said the hike was due to tuition fees and the price of vegetables [ unless they were referring to the students that is !!!!]

How come the rise in tuition fees has impacted inflation so quickly, or is it referring to an earlier increase that is now been paid back?

Cos it is for October when lots of fees are due to be paid.

Its just the latest in a long, sorry line of 'dog ate my homework' style excuses, because Georges original statement....

"Look... we're in the process of dismantling the state. OK? Sorry, but our ideological mission to hand everything over to our chums, so they can then make oodles of money from you, means that the rest of you are going to see your living standards decimated. That's just the way it is, I'm afraid! So suck it up peasants!"

....didn't play well in the press office

means that the rest of you are going to see your living standards decimated

My mum was a Polish refugee from the war, my dad is the son of a butcher who got an apprenticeship was when he was 16 so I don't think we even begin to feature among George's chums but my living standard is doing pretty well thanks.

If you're bitter about yours Binners maybe you should look closer to home?

Not bitter at all fella. I is a relatively happy bunny

I doubt that the students now finding 9 grand a year on their tuition fees, amongst plenty of others, share your optimism though. Just an observation

I doubt that the students now finding 9 grand a year on their tuition fees

Since its paid for by a loan its not going to impact their standard of living much either...

How can paying back the best part of 30 grand not impact on your living standards, in a country where wages are nowhere near keeping track with ever-rising inflation? And a graduate unemployment rate of 40%?

The current crop of students and graduates [and young people generally] are going to be the first generation in a long time that end up worse off than their parents.

If there are no jobs for graduates, WTF are we doing having so many universities churning them out. Fewer places, harder to get in, smaller cohort of graduates to fill the small number of graduate vacancies, rather than try and make everyone a graduate and piss everyone off because someone has to do the ordinary jobs.

Applications are down 25% this year, so its a problem that's clearly being addressed. Tarquin and Tabatha will still be going. But none of those frightful working classes, who will have to bally well learn their place!!!

You can't really blame the graduates though for a 40% unemployment rate. Its not easy to get [i]any[/i] job at the moment, on account of there still being (officially) 2.6 million unemployed

The current crop of students and graduates ... are going to ... end up worse off than their parents

I never realised it was a competition?

😀

Of course it is.....

😉

Applications are down 25% this year, so its a problem that's clearly being addressed. Tarquin and Tabatha will still be going. But none of those frightful working classes, who will have to bally well learn their place!!!

Binners everyone knows that the biggest difference (perhaps the only difference) between the working class and the middle class is that the middle class (not the upper class as you seem to be suggesting) realised long ago that education was the magic bullet to doing well in the world and consequently they have been fostering an environment for their kids where doing well at school, getting good results and going to university was always something to aspire to and feel good about.

Working class homes are working class by definition of them being the homes where education is seen as 'not cool', where doing well meant you were a swot and where it was something to be derided.

That they aren't taking up places at university has precious little to do with income and everything to do with attitude.

Who in the middle classes can themselves actually afford £20k a year fees and living costs anyway (and let's face it, the middle classes make up the vast majority of university students)? That would mean you've got around £30k of completely disposable pre-tax income coming in and that is not the middle class, yet they still send their kids to uni because they encourage them to take the loans because they know the value of them.

The 25% reduction is coming from Shazza and Bazza not doing Sociology at Brentford Tech or Media Studies at Luton. I think the workplace will miss that to some extent, but at the same time, the value of those kinds of degrees are being called into serious question when for not much more you can go to a red brick institution and get a degree that's really going to make a difference to your career.

Working class homes are working class by definition of them being the homes where education is seen as 'not cool', where doing well meant you were a swot and where it was something to be derided.

Are you for real? You actually believe that?

You are Michael Gove and I claim my signed copy of your St Johns bible 😆

Are you for real? You actually believe that?

I suspect he does sadly

Right so working class people don't understand the value of education? My dad was a plasterer and my mum a hairdresser...education being important was drummed into us throughout childhood. I reckon that my parents proudest achievement is that me and my sister both have degrees and reasonable jobs...

Are you for real? You actually believe that?

Yes I do, on the whole. I don't think it holds true in every household and there are many exceptions, but based on my own experience, yes I do believe that.

Rich tea or hobnobs to settle down with? 😉

not for me but thanks for the offer. I've finished lunch and need to crack on.

Being working class, im not allowed rich tea until Christmas morning.

[i]Working class homes are working class by definition of them being the homes where education is seen as 'not cool', where doing well meant you were a swot and where it was something to be derided.[/i]

Nice sweeping generalisation there, well done.

I don't think it holds true in every household and there are many exceptions

Yes, I'm one of them. So are a lot of my friends. Would I have the same opportunity to do it now? With fees and living costs leaving students in such huge amounts of debt. If I'm honest, I very much doubt it

Though I presume a lot of the Tim-Nice-But-Dim Half-wits I was at uni with, studying equally vacuous subjects as the ones you patronisingly list above, wouldn't have an issue with it 🙄

Working class homes are working class by definition of them being the homes where education is seen as 'not cool', where doing well meant you were a swot and where it was something to be derided.

Utter tripe

Edit: generalization

binners - Member
Applications are down 25% this year, so its a problem that's clearly being addressed. Tarquin and Tabatha will still be going. But none of those frightful working classes, who will have to bally well learn their place!!!

You can't really blame the graduates though for a 40% unemployment rate. Its not easy to get any job at the moment, on account of there still being (officially) 2.6 million unemployed

Citations needed.

IIRC, the last figures i saw were that 2012 entry was down on 2011, but 2011 was up on 2010 because of impending fees. 2012 isn't far off 2010 entry.

If you're refering to 2013 entry applications being down, that's because the deadline isn't for months yet.

rogerthecat - Member
If there are no jobs for graduates, WTF are we doing having so many universities churning them out. Fewer places, harder to get in, smaller cohort of graduates to fill the small number of graduate vacancies, rather than try and make everyone a graduate and piss everyone off because someone has to do the ordinary jobs.

Trollololol

[i]The 25% reduction is coming from Shazza and Bazza not doing Sociology at Brentford Tech or Media Studies at Luton.[/i]

Oof, careful there in your glass house. Remind me of your (and your brother's) degrees and the redbrick institution that they're from?

Remind me of your (and your brother's) degrees and the redbrick institution that they're from?

Manchester University

For us and the institutions we share data with, RUK applications were down about 20% on last year, which amounts to about 10% down on 2010. We still get far more qualified scottish applicants than we can place, sadly.

But I don't know if the scottish experience is comparable to the RUK because of the different funding model.

[i]Manchester University [/i]

I think someone's being a little disingenuous. They may have been awarded by MU, but that's not where you studied.

And anyway, regardless of where you studied (an ex-poly that couldn't award it's own degrees), or what they're in (and I'm pretty sure they're not in 'classical' subjects), both you and your bro have done very well. So, perhaps you should apologise to Shazza and Bazza for being so disparaging about their choices of degree and institution.

I am also one of the exception to the generalisation about the working class...however when I taught in "the village of the damned" it WAS an attitude I did encounter, and worryingly often.

I passed by Edinburgh University earlier today - not a single red brick in sight....

I think someone's being a little disingenuous. They may have been awarded by MU, but that's not where you studied.

You are right, I was being a bit disingenuous. I did my undergraduate at Sheffield Hallam and my Post Grad MBA at Manchester (the Business School, which is part of the university).

The quality of my undergrad was poor and I wouldn't have paid money for it had I been asked to pay tuition fees. That was my point; if you've got the choice of doing Maths at Manchester or Media Studies at Salford and they both cost the same, which are you going to chose? Likewise, if the best course you can get on to is the latter and it's going to cost you £30k, is that value for money enough to justify doing it?

The Sazza and Bazza remark was a parody of Binners's Tarquin and Tabatha remark, which could be deemed equally as offensive or, just an equally harmless burlesque - or are we saying its ok to mock the privileged because they are privileged?

I would say that my own background at least started as working class but in our household, education was drilled into us as being critical for our success (despite the s**t storm I had to endure at primary school Simon, which you may or may not remember since you were also there albeit the year below - I think i've done pretty well despite that!) and so we elevated ourselves to middle class.

That's my point. This is not a class judgement as much as it is a class definition.

You become middle class when you realise that education is the magic bullet and create an environment in which education is valued and encouraged. And you become working class when you do the opposite.

So, by your definition, nobody working class can ever appreciate education? Does this mean, conversely, that someone middle or upper class who fails to fully appreciate the huge gift of a quality education that has been magically bestowed on them by their families aspiration, then reverts to being working class?

Serious question!

To be fair, if you want to get into the media (and why shouldn't you?) doing Media Studies at Salford would seem to be an excellent idea, what with move of the Beeb to Salford.

[i]You become [s]middle class[/s][b]a good parent[/b] when you [s]realise that education is the magic bullet and[/s] create an environment in which education is valued and encouraged. And you become [s]working class[/s][b]a bad parent[/b] when you do the opposite. [/i]

Class has nothing to do with it.

I still can't see how tuition fees are impacting inflation if (next to) no one is yet paying them back - anyone care to elaborate?

Binners happy to accept the serious question.

I think the first challenge we have to overcome is this notion of class. I think everyone can agree what it looks like/means etc when we see the extremes, so the very top echelons contrasted against the very bottom (and it's not universally about money either). But let's not get too into that as it's a whole other thread, more pages than this one.

Let's agree that there is a relatively easily identifiable notion of working class and middle class and then ask how do your recognise which families are which.

I would be saying that the ones where parents encourage their kids to do well, to apply themselves and study hard, where education was critical, formal or otherwise (and I think that education isn't confined to just formal schooling. It can come from other areas such as hobbies or societies for example), where being a contributing member of society was something that should be aspired to, those families would be what I recognise as middle class.

The working class families would be where those values are not just not taught, but where there is also evidence that they are derided.

There were some pretty nasty pieces of work in my class, they were working class than and they're working class now and short of them being a problem for society, that's just how things are.

There were also a lot of kids from families that might have been recognised as working class back then but because of their attitude towards education (formal or otherwise) are now what people would call middle class.

Someone above made the point - mum was a hairdresser and dad was a mechanic but we worked hard at school, went to university and now have pretty good jobs.

That's my point; are they still working class or are they now middle class?

I have seen a lot of evidence of social mobility from my generation; that may be different now but I suspect that education is still the key to social mobility - ironically Binners I think I have talked my argument round to you and I being in wholehearted and violent agreement.

Class has nothing to do with it.

That's the problem when you deal with as nebulous a term as class. We all have different ways of defining and recognising it.

Your point is well made; good parents = middle class and bad parents = working class.

Money has nothing to do with it.

To be fair, if you want to get into the media (and why shouldn't you?) doing Media Studies at Salford would seem to be an excellent idea, what with move of the Beeb to Salford.

And on this point, no, I really don't think it is. In fact I know it's not. The media tends to hire from the Russell Group of unis, not Salford Poly.

I think you may well be right. As it sounds like we had very similar upbringings, aspiration-wise. So I know what you're saying.

What worries me now is the way society has changed, in becoming more polarised, that even with the best will on the world, the opportunities you and I enjoyed are being firmly denied to the generations below us. Social mobility is going backwards in this country. As all the stats beat out. And I can only see that getting far far worse in the future.

The 'class' you're born into is increasingly where you'll stay. As the middle classes (understandably) shore up their inbuilt advantage in a country in decline

Where would footballers such as John Terry fall into the class system? Richer than most, less educated than most....

geetee1972 - Member

You become middle class when you realise that education is the magic bullet and create an environment in which education is valued and encouraged.

I would very strongly disagree. In my last job I worked in what we call wider access- that is, encouraging first-generation students, from families that have never had a member in fe previously. And while some do undervalue education, it's not a key consideration.

There are strong barriers to entry for working class kids. Probably the most significant is just the lack of a roadmap- if your family and friends didn't go to uni, you're less likely to consider it in the first place, and you have less places to turn to for advice.

Meanwhile as you go up the scale, you reach the point where going into HE is commonplace, and therefore it becomes normalised- people are more likely to have relevant experiences to support you, nobody says "Why are you going to uni" or "Why don't you get a job". Speak to a B or C1 class kid and you hear much less "Will I go to uni/college" and much more "what will I do [i]when[/i] I go to uni/college"

Also, I don't think anyone doubts that the debt aspect is also a massive deterrant for lower income families, and families with less history of long-term managed debt. Meanwhile for middle class families, it's much less intimidating.

And lastly, there's often an impact in the quality of education- it's a hard fact that low income areas produce less high achieving school pupils. It's easier for a kid in a good area and good school surrounded by good kids to get 3 As than it is for a kid in a sink estate.

In short- it's not just a case of desire. The job of getting a child into HE is far harder for some than others.

[i]What worries me now is the way society has changed, in becoming more polarised, that even with the best will on the world, the opportunities you and I enjoyed are being firmly denied to the generations below us. Social mobility is going backwards in this country. As all the stats beat out. And I can only see that getting far far worse in the future.

[/i]

+1

My mum mentioned this recently, that her generation had it best as far as she can see. She was born just before WW2. So full life of NHS, decent education (Grammer School both her and Dad), house paid by inflation and final-salary pensions that have been paying out nearly 20 years now.

Northwind, excellent post. You've made the argument I was trying to make. This is exactly what I had in my mind, I just worded it in a clumsy and inflammatory way.

Probably the most significant is just the lack of a roadmap

Yes! Absolutely. But the lack of a road map is only a barrier, not an immovable obstacle; it can be overcome and it's the working class families that go out of their way to 'normalise' education and HE in particular that enable social mobility in their children.

The issue of familiarity and comfort with debt is the one part of your argument that I don't think my argument has an answer for. That said, the decision is an internal locus of control issue, not an external one. You have a choice to make and you can chose to let it be a barrier or you can chose to take to take on the debt. The government has made it very clear that you won't pay a penny until your earnings are above a certain level so what have you got to lose?

I think the social mobility issue is extremely complicated and one that does not lend itself to simple headlines (however much the OECD likes to pretend). For large parts of society, there are tremendous opportunities for all kinds of mobility and most work places are far more diverse (IMO) than parents and grandparents generations were. My older son started at Uni recently and shares with guys from very different backgrounds (school, social, race, nationality) and benefits from it. His peers are far more heterogenous that those I went to Uni with. Plus opportunities to travel, study and work overseas are greater and information and access made easier via the web etc.

But there is also segments of society that are missing out on all of this completely, and for for well documented reasons. For them mobility is becoming a more distant dream and exclusion, deprivation and the obvious consequences of these factors becoming more obvious. Just to add a little spark to the tinder, I will suggest that the reform (sic) of UK education when I was young has to bear a significant responsibility followed by individual parents. Pity that it's the young that then suffer the consequences.

b r - Member

I still can't see how tuition fees are impacting inflation if (next to) no one is yet paying them back - anyone care to elaborate?

what he said.

especially when you consider that the monthly repayments are/will be £50/month less under the new system...

geetee1972 - Member

You have a choice to make and you can chose to let it be a barrier or you can chose to take to take on the debt.

This is true, but that choice will be heavily influenced by your own experiences and those of friends and family. Attitudes to debt and money are very deeply inscribed. It's a given that increasing student debt reduces working class applications more than it does middle class applications.

Up here, we still have full fee funding for students, and I think once the figures settle down we're going to see a dramatic difference between the scottish and RUK figures on this.

geetee1972 - Member

it's the working class families that go out of their way to 'normalise' education and HE in particular that enable social mobility in their children.

Here I'm getting into my own opinion... Certainly that plays a part, but the majority of the applicants I dealt with had little or no parental support. To be fair, my sample's probably skewed, and in any case is too small to be too dependable. But it seems that school support- whether it's exceptional teachers, or just better access to the resources that were available- makes a more consistent difference. All these kids were stupendous badasses as well, to be fair, most credit is to them.

It was a frustration for us that we had a lot of support we could give, but that dpeople on't know about it. Meanwhile, ironically, your upper-middle class kids almost instinctively home in on the bursaries and grants and financial opportunities.

b r - Member

I still can't see how tuition fees are impacting inflation if (next to) no one is yet paying them back - anyone care to elaborate?

PS, I have absolutely no idea. Not all students are taking the loans, mind, but I wouldn't have thought that would have a national impact on this scale.

Hmm. £30k debits for what the government reckons is a £100k extra over a working life. Well Warren Buffet wouldn't invest at that rate of return and I'm not sure I would either.

Meanwhile our company is paying £17k pa plus paying for an HND. And if your good they'll pay for degrees too - I got my second degree while working for the company. That's a big swing £24k a year.

The way forward (in things like engineering anyway) will be to get companies to pay.

If of course you want to go to university for the experience then perhaps paying your fees is the way to go.

As Northwind has alluded to, one of the biggest barriers of getting into a so-called 'top university' is grades. If a kid needs 360 points they aren't going to get in unless they get 360 points, and chances are they aren't going to get 360 points if they're at a poor school.

The degree i lead has just had its entry tariff increased to 320 points (despite my and colleagues protests) which mean we've just excluded a whole host of school leavers who once would have come to us from 'working class' areas which poor schools when out points were at 280 two years ago. Our experience is that those kids are great to teach, work hard, and often out perform students from more affluent backgrounds. Thankfully we're bringing in an access stream which will allow us to accept more kids with lower grades from school we have links with.

I used inverted commas above because the idea that teaching quality is always higher at red bricks/Russell Group universities is rubbish. Also, students don't go to universities, they do a degree in a department at a university. There is a huge variation in teaching and research quality within universities that is hidden by an institutions overall reputation. You get a good degree by the effort you put in, not because you went to a particular university.

or, someone earning an average salary (£26k) will pay back £500 per year, for 30 years.

that's £15k.

not a bad way to repay a 'debt' of £60k...

or, someone earning an average salary (£26k) will pay back £500 per year, for 30 years.

that's £15k.

not a bad way to repay a 'debt' of £60k...

Let's be honest though, if you end up earning £26K [equiv] you'd probably have been better off going straight to work rather than uni

You get a good degree by the effort you put in, not because you went to a particular university.

I understand you point capt, but if that really is true than the future of Unis in a £30k+pa environment will not be a healthy one. Perhaps this will be a fitting epitaph in several years time.

Let's be honest though, if you end up earning £26K [equiv] you'd probably have been better off going straight to work rather than uni

Which is the point I was trying to make on P1 (not a troll btw). Education is great but why are we trying to force everyone into the uni route and the 'you must have a degree' mindset when graduate jobs now command similar levels of salary as those following a more vocation/job based route?

We see fresh out of uni grads expecting to earn the same or more than people with 10 years experience, not only is that never going to happen, it's unaffordable.

EDIT: if we do reduce the number of uni places by a sizeable chunk then perhaps we could return to grant funded degrees?

Let's be honest though, if you end up earning £26K [equiv] you'd probably have been better off going straight to work rather than uni

nurses, engineers, teachers, etc.

all need degrees, but none are exactly a fast track to a high income.

thankfully, not everyone is entirely motivated by profit...

If you're paying back 50 quid a month earning 26k then that sounds like a good deal! But I'd hazard a guess that most graduates aren't going to be on anything remotely approaching 26k a year. And some may never hit that point. At what income level so repayments start?

When I left school I did a 4 year apprenticeship and got a trade, before then going on to university, but looking at what now classes as an apprenticeship, it's unrecognisable. But vocational training is essential to our economy, yet not many companies seem to place any value on providing them

thankfully, not everyone is entirely motivated by profit...

Indeed, but it was you that started doing the maths on the financial benefit of it, not me

😆

The bottom line is that politics is a farce, all it does is create a front so that when we find out that we've been ripped off! we as dumb animals then get annoyed at the government and replace them with another corrupt government.

The problem isn't that there's not enough to go round, the real problem is that by controlling the wealth you control the population. We don't need to make cutbacks which is all austerity measures are before we make absolutely sure that our affairs are being run as efficiently as possible. The problem with our affairs being run efficiently is that there is less potential for ripping us off! so obviously it will not be popular with the rich.

Also the main problem in our culture is the banksters and other rip off merchants like energy companies, until we have a government who will actively go after the banks and the rest of the scum we will continue to live in a global shitemare!

Gordon Brown mentioned something about going after the banks and then the media did a very nice hatched job on him, not surprising when you consider who owns the media! If our situation is to improve first we need to gain control back of our own finances and lives.

Leaving the country and Europe under the control of the rich and powerful will simply lead to more hardship or perhaps even civil war!

No need for hob nobs - I have a nice glass of red to hand...

As you may guess by the wine drinking affectation, I would probably be classified as "middle class". I am finding this debate fascinating as I am looking ahead to when my kids get to uni age and wondering what I will tell them?

With what is happening to the cost of FE and also what is happening in the job market I can see me making a case for them to skip Uni and go straight into the job market. But being middle class, I have real issues with them not going to uni. Pure snobbery on my part, but there it is. I have 5 years to figure it out before I need to have the conversation for the first time...

Please - carry on. I'm learning stuff here...

The Fopster - Member

I have 5 years to figure it out before I need to have the conversation for the first time...

It's anybody's guess what the funding situation will be like then tbh. I'd like to think it'll improve but no optimism. Job market no more certain obviously.

Not too late to move to Scotland though!

The government has made it very clear that you won't pay a penny until your earnings are above a certain level so what have you got to lose?

Governments have made lots of promises in the past that get broken by later ones.

Move to Scotland? Don't be daft - there are dragons up there. And nowhere decent to ride a bike. No sir - its Milton Keynes for me!

Gordon Brown mentioned something about going after the banks and then the media did a very nice hatched job on him, not surprising when you consider who owns the media!

Who is that then?

Hey Kaesae, what about those frames?

(by the way, it is 'hatchet', not 'hatched' Even you couldn't claim they made him appear from an egg)

jota180 - Member

Indeed, but it was you that started doing the maths on the financial benefit of it, not me

my point is this;

the idea that there is some kind of 'class' divide, between those who can afford university, and those who can't, is wrong.

or at least, if there is a divide, then it's smaller now than it was.

b r - Member
My mum mentioned this recently, that her generation had it best as far as she can see. She was born just before WW2. So full life of NHS, decent education (Grammer School both her and Dad), house paid by inflation and final-salary pensions that have been paying out nearly 20 years now.

Mine also.
Both my parents came from slightly blurred working class backgrounds, father was the son of a GPO drone in London, he went on to be a professor of geology.
My mother was the daughter of a market gardener in Huddersfield, she also went to Uni & became a head teacher.
Both my sister & I have done OK but have had less chance to fix our lives so early as our parents.

Has anyone mentioned the maintenance loan (£5.5k) students have on top of a loan for fees?

There is also a grant that can be applied for.

And some universities offer bursaries.

Oh, and some offer scholarships.

That is upto five sets of forms to fill in - another hurdle for kids to tackle.

Has anyone mentioned the maintenance loan (£5.5k) students have on top of a loan for fees?

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the maintenance loan comes nowhere near covering living costs?

i don't know...

rent in a student house in 'anywhere other than london' will be £50/week

that's £2000 for the year.

leaving £3500 for food/booze/clothes = £80/week.

that's more than i've got, and i'm quite comfortable ta.

rent in a student house in 'anywhere other than london' will be £50/week

that's £2000 for the year.

Fairly sure we did for one of ours.

i never did.

i even came to rely on the £200 my landlords offered to bugger off early - so they could cash in from the Malaysian students who came over for the summer...

rent in a student house in 'anywhere other than london' will be £50/week

It was more than that 10 years ago.

Probably closer to the £90-100/wk mark now.

Then there's bills, food, books, travel etc on top of that lot.

ahwiles, binners - I don't think engineering is too badly paid. £26k is around the starting salary on a graduate engineer on a training scheme these days. A graduate engineer who stays in engineering should expect to get to £50k perhaps a little more, but most graduate engineers move into management or a variety of forms of consultancy - earnings can be pretty good.
Nursing didn't used to need a degree, but that has changed in the same way that 50% of kids going to uni has.
Teaching? Well they ain't rich but they aren't exactly struggling to eat either.

Working class homes are working class by definition of them being the homes where education is seen as 'not cool', where doing well meant you were a swot and where it was something to be derided.

I spent a couple of years in a really shit high school. This really was the mindset for a lot of (though obviously not all) people.

When my parents punted me to a fee-paying school it was the polar opposite. Make of that what you will.

couple of points..
you dont have to go to university and going is no guarantee of sucess.

If you want to go you can go wherever you want as long as you can fulfill the entry requirements. the govt. loan you the money for education and living costs ( you can take work before or during the course or even save beforehand if you wish)

seems like a fairly fair and open system to me..

I still can't see how tuition fees are impacting inflation if (next to) no one is yet paying them back - anyone care to elaborate?

People may not be paying the loans back, but the government is still paying (the much larger) fees to the universities for their services. Inflation is the increase in the cost of goods and services. It doesn't really matter who is paying for it. Since there has been pretty much a universal increase in fees, the impact will be noticable in the inflation figures.

[i]I still can't see how tuition fees are impacting inflation if (next to) no one is yet paying them back - anyone care to elaborate?[/i]

It's debt, it's going to make a diffence to everything in my life from mortgages to credit cards to overdrafts to loans....

jon/emsz

Agree, but it shouldn't be impacting inflation already - as no one is yet paying them back.

RPI/CPI aren't theoretical numbers (AFAIK) but actuals, therefore shouldn't yet be impacted - or does someone have a definitive answer?

b r - Member

jon/emsz

Agree, but it shouldn't be impacting inflation already - as no one is yet paying them back.

and when they do start paying them back, they'll be paying back LESS per month/year/lifetime.

br - RPI is on a notional basket of goods, which obviously includes in this case tuition fees. The RPI records the prices, not necessarily the cashflow, of a trade. Whether the transaction is paid with debt, goodwill, or cash is not factored in, just the price at which the good or service was transacted.

It comes back to my earlier point too, which is that university fee hikes do not instantly impact upon standard of living, and even in the long run the interest and repayment rates are so low as to have a minor impact when they start to be paid anyway.

ahwiles - Member
i don't know...

rent in a student house in 'anywhere other than london' will be £50/week

that's £2000 for the year.

leaving £3500 for food/booze/clothes = £80/week.

that's more than i've got, and i'm quite comfortable ta.

Maybe in the olden days grandad.

Rent is more than than; halls much more (in fact, when when i was a first year my maintenance loan didn't cover the cost of catered halls). Plus when you rent a new house there are the landlord fees.