[Closed] Issues with wife's nearly new car. What are our rights?

Does it not have Apple car play and Android Auto?
Plug the phone in to the USB and use that until the new part arrives.

They use bluetooth.

Does it not have Apple car play and Android Auto?
Plug the phone in to the USB and use that until the new part arrives.

Not working either unfortunately. Apparently its quite complex module that's broke.

Part availability probably down to global electronic component shortages. Is the unit in the latest model compatible - ask them to fit that?

How long is reasonable

Given currently lead times, rather longer than you want, they can't reasonably be expected to fix the car in X if the parts are unavailable until y.

However...

Check your dates, if you first reported the problem within 6 months you're in a much better position.

I went through similar with one of ours a few years back which had issues starting (minor but not right and potentially more trouble down the line) - our dealer were great in fairness to them - I'll dig about for the info letters etc I went through but in the end they replaced ours with new because they couldn't sort out the problem.

Essentially we rejected the car as faulty in the end and requested replace or refund (there is a time frame for that and they're entitled to deduct for usage/replace with similar condition, you're not directly entitled to be and there's no out and it right of refund under the CRA) and that's possibly where you want to be looking.

It won't be tonight but I'll see what I can find and PM you.

That would be great thank you !!

Initially the dealer said the parts weren't affected by the chip shortage issue but now seems to be back tracking and now no longer offer a timeframe.

I might well be wrong but if the parts are not in the country then there's very little they can do and hence very little that you can do either.
It's a problem affecting a wide variety of industries worldwide.

There might not be anything they can do...

they can’t reasonably be expected to fix the car in X if the parts are unavailable until y.

...But it isn'y your problem, they sold you X and you got Y, that's faulty goods and the usual laws apply for faulty goods.

Stand alone sat nav and  decent hands free kit for the phone would sound like  decent remedy for me if your wife really needs them

If its a manufacturing fault you do have a right to reject after one failed repair attempt and time scales for repair have to be "reasonable" which is very hard to define in this situation

Which magazine has a very good guide onthis

It might be a pain but the Bluetooth and built in sat nav not working hardly makes the car unusable.

Kick off and get some goodwill for sure but in the meantime, get a decent phone mount and just use that.

It might be a pain but the Bluetooth and built in sat nav not working hardly makes the car unusable.

Unless it's symptom 1 of a bigger problem. Nothing in your car these days is an island, faulty Bluetooth could just as easily be a dodgy connection to the same unit
that controls the immobiliser which fails in 3 months and so on.

It's a new car and it should all work whether it's a wheel or a washer nozzle.

…But it isn’y your problem, they sold you X and you got Y, that’s faulty goods and the usual laws apply for faulty goods.

But (global) availability isn't theirs either and since the CRA the time frame is "reasonable" and that's deliberately worded.
Taking a week to replace the windscreen would be unreasonable, it's a same or next day job. Taking a year to source the bespoke volume knob you picked at point of purchase then fitting it next day when it arrives is reasonable. Taking a month to order that same knob would be unreasonable.

I'm curious as to what the job is that necessitates bluetooth.

Surprised any company condones answering calls on Bluetooth while driving these days

A standalone satnav off Halfords for 50 quid till they can fix yours will be cheaper than trying to hand the car back and source a new one.

Perhaps ask them to source/pay for it.

Taking a week to replace the windscreen would be unreasonable

Ok but on the subject of whataboutery, what if there's a global shortage of glass?

Taking a week to replace the windscreen would be unreasonable

Autoglass took a month to replace mine, which had 30cm crack. And that was pre-pamdemic issues.

I’m curious as to what the job is that necessitates bluetooth.

Could be used to provide data connectivity and then use the connectivity to update traffic data etc. Not all sat navs use TMC.

I’ve certainly had more than one car that could use Bluetooth or WiFi to transfer data.

I’m curious as to what the job is that necessitates bluetooth.

It doesn't "necessitate" Bluetooth, just makes life a damn sight easier I would guess.

I've done many jobs where travelling was a necessity, and having fully functioning SatNav and mobile makes life so much easier - and anyone who thinks otherwise should be forced to go back to the pre-mobile days and drive around with hand-drawn FAX'd maps (that were always missing a key junction/roundabout) and turning up somewhere after a 3 hour drive to find the meeting was cancelled (but they had left a message with your secretary...).

Taking a week to replace the windscreen would be unreasonable, it’s a same or next day job.

All depends if you car has a standard windscreen or a windscreen that was only used in a specific model in the range due to distance sensor unit at top of it. Been waiting a week so far.

As for sat nav, cheap standalone or even cheaper, a holder for your phone (assuming the usb charger still works in the car and not part of the faulty module)

You do have some good rights here.

Current situation probably needs a very pragmatic approach.

I use Google maps on my phone, on a good Brodit magnet mount.

You can get speaker + mic cradle.

What about asking the dealer to pay for the mount and speaker?

I think Matt has it.
You do have rights, but they are of little use if you can’t exercise them.
It’s rubbish, but going old school with a phone mount and maybe one of those Jabra visor mounted mic/speaker combo may work.
Or single Bluetooth earpiece for the full on Uber driver look.

Jabra Drive Bluetooth In-Car Speakerphone – Noise Cancelling Hands-Free Microphone and Speaker for Calls, Music Streaming and GPS – Black https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0058VDTO0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_VF61D0WW4DB0MW64599H?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

If they had provided you a reasonable time frame, that would be different. The fact they have no timeframe would push me to ensure it was resolved or the car refunded. I'm not sure I'd want to continue owning a car with a warranty, if the first warranty claim was handled so badly. What happens when something else fails?

Did you pay with any kind of finance or use a credit card for any part of the payment? I would carefully threaten them with invoking your rights under Section 75, which means the credit agency can step in and refund you regardless.

Before doing this, try to get in writing (email) an update where they state there is no timeframe for the part. Then you can ask them for a refund or you'll claim a refund under section 75 and show the credit agency the email. Hopefully this will push them into action, I'm sure they can find another way to resolve the problem. They could reasonably provide you a loaner car until the part is available.

I was in a similar situation recently for a Kitchen, the credit agency ended up stepping in and refunded me 20%.

Also before you go in guns blazing, consider if they did refund you, would a replacement car cost significantly more due to price rises.

I don't understand the sympathy for the dealer/manufacturer. A car manufacturer should be holding warranty stock for new vehicles so they can honour the service level you should reasonably expect. If they can't get manufacturing quantities, they should sell a few fewer cars so they can keep part spares.

I’m surprised she’s allowed to use Bluetooth phone at all for work. My last 2 workplaces wouldn’t allow it even on hands free and personally I’m glad of that rule.

Be practical though - You probably have the right to get a refund on the car but getting it will be possibly complex, certainly stressful and all you will be left with is no car and trying to find another one and battling with extreme wait times for new cars or vastly inflated prices for nearly new.

Personally I’d chat with the dealer and try and get them to provide some way of accessing a sat nav in the car while you wait for the parts. Maybe a phone cradle (quad lock is my preferred one) and a Bluetooth ear piece. It wouldn’t cost them much. If they refuse to help at all then say you don’t have any choice but to take it further as the car isn’t what she needs.

To be honest I wouldn’t bother with any in built sat nav anyway as they are all pretty rubbish compared to Google maps et al, my brand new car has it inbuilt and it’s a bit naff.

I don’t understand the sympathy for the dealer/manufacturer. A car manufacturer should be holding warranty stock for new vehicles so they can honour the service level you should reasonably expect.

How much stock do you expect them to hold? Maybe 1000 spare infotainment units for use worldwide? 10000? And all the other parts for the car - thousands and thousands of them the vast majority of them will never be needed?

How much stock do you expect them to hold? Maybe 1000 spare infotainment units for use worldwide? 10000? And all the other parts for the car – thousands and thousands of them the vast majority of them will never be needed?

I expect them to hold stock for producing new cars but allow a buffer for warranty, ie: keep 10,000 for producing 9,000 new cars. If the stock reduces for some reason, (eg: supply issues), then keep the warranty buffer and stop producing new cars.

Otherwise what is the point of buying a new car if they can't fix it quickly for free? You might as well buy used, where they are other options for repair, eg: recondition, unit repair, scrap yard parts.

Keeping warranty stock is common in many industries.

I work at a commercial main dealer and some of our customers are blue light services so.....yes we do deal in life and death. If you look at the entire motor industry there are shortages outwith the normal Ford incompetences all over the place. We had a shortage of Nox sensors for months. It started with the cars and ran over to the commercials. Eventually it became so bad that Mercedes stipulated Blue light and food delivery companies were the priority. The rest had to have the ecu reset every 500mls. It was a royal PITA. Along with the chip shortages and door lock shortages we have had a hard 12months trying to keep customers happy.

The customers tend to fall into 2 catagories. Those that work with us and we do everything we can to help keep them running and more often than not get more back in return. The other is people who complain about everything, demand everything and show little compromise. Believe me, in 99% of the cases you get so much more if you are the first example. The second end up with high blood pressure, dissapointed and never ever happy.

In this situation where the part is on back order i cant see them stripping a perfectly good stock car to fix yours. Stock is a nightmare at the moment so they would be doing themselves out of a full car sale. If this is a route to go down, the dealer should be asking Seat to offer up a donor car, i bet they dont.

Others have suggested that a TOMTOM sat nav can be had for £100 which would cover satnav and phone duties. A total compromise but fully workable. If it was me i would call Seat customer services, explain the issue, be understanding and mention this solution. To make things easy you will accept a service plan of 3 free services in return, along with priority when the part comes into stock to sort it our properly.

Or you can go nuclear with the dealership, keep complaining, try to return the car etc and come out of it with a stomach ulcer and everyone unhappy. SEAT and the dealership are in the same position just about evey other dealership has experienced over the last 18mths tbh.

You probably have the right to get a refund on the car

Surely there's zero chance of this?! It's only the head unit that's playing up..... not the entire car.

If they refuse to help at all then say you don’t have any choice but to take it further as the car isn’t what she needs.

I don't think this a basis for returning a car.

If the stock reduces for some reason, (eg: supply issues), then keep the warranty buffer and stop producing new cars.

Wow!

[Interesting story:
I frequent a very US biased forum for people with powerboats. One person posted up that the block on one of their new engines needed to be replaced under warranty but there was a 3 month delay in getting the parts! All the replies stated that there were delays for everything and that there's a lead time of nearly 12 months for many larger engines. Although it's a pain they realise that these are fairly unprecedented times and they're just sucking it up even though it means they can't use the engine that cost >£25k on their £250k boat!]

For your wife I would have thought that google maps and phone on loudspeaker (or use a wireless bud) would be the the immediate solution.

Keeping warranty stock is common in many industries.

Stock is wasted money which is why many industries no longer hold stock.

Anyway if they can’t fix it in a reasonable time I’d be after a replacement vehicle.

If it was me, I would be putting it in writing (to the dealer and copying in SEAT UK) as to why this fault is causing issues (ie, you bought that specification as you NEEDED that specification). Ask them to confirm in writing what options they can give you (ie, if the replacement part isn't available by X, then they will do Y or Z). At the end of the day the car was only six months old when it developed the fault and that really isn't acceptable. Fair enough if the part isn't available, they can't help that situation, but they should at least be able to provide you with a suitable alternative (such as fitting a third-party system free of charge, providing an alternative car until the part is available, replacing the car etc.

The customers tend to fall into 2 catagories. Those that work with us and we do everything we can to help keep them running and more often than not get more back in return.

I completely agree with you. I think the situation would be different if the dealer could provide a timeframe. I also would expect the original poster to use my advice to pressurise the dealer to find other resolutions. We all know dealers can vary, but they won't be trying too hard to find other stock sources as they're not making money out of resolving the issue quickly. I know that manufacturers aften also hide their real stock availability (this does happen in the bike trade in the big brands) from retail (dealers) so they can keep their internal manufacturing stock. A little pressure might cause the part to 'magically' appear.

Also before you go in guns blazing, consider if they did refund you, would a replacement car cost significantly more due to price rises.

From what stock? Some manufacturers are 6-8 months for delivery of a new car, with no stock.

I found this place for I bloke I know who had a similar failure on an out of warrantee Skoda. Main dealer wanted 2.5k to replace the whole infotainment system, repair cost him approx £100 IIRC.

https://www.caraudiorepairspecialists.co.uk/index.html

If you're in the Northwest and Seat would pick up the tab, that's got to be worth a shot. Bound to be similar companies in different areas of the country if this is no use.

solomanda thats why i advised to call SEAT customer services. Usually if the manufacturer instructs the dealership then it happens. If the OP has given the dealership the chance and it hasnt been sorted then a simple phone call solves that. TBH the dealership may just be following SEATS lead and having to tell people there is no time frame at present. We had that for months 🙁 There is a very good chance of some goodwill to say sorry if the OP asks SEAT.

Believe me, the motor industry has been going through a parts AND production situation for the last 2 years. My own dealership has one of the biggest parts departments in the entire country and has access to one of the biggest supply chains in the country as back up. We then have the ability to get parts from Germany within 24hrs. Some parts have been off the shelf EVERYWHERE to the point they have closed entire production lines. In that situation it becomes a case of telling the truth and asking the customer to be reasonable.

The customers tend to fall into 2 catagories. Those that work with us and we do everything we can to help keep them running and more often than not get more back in return. The other is people who complain about everything, demand everything and show little compromise. Believe me, in 99% of the cases you get so much more if you are the first example.

This x1000.

When I was in retail I would bend over backwards to help people but going nuclear never helps.

I’m the first one to complain about something not being right but I know that 99% of people selling stuff want the customer to be happy and want to help. Make their life easier to do that and you’ll get a much more positive response.

In the big DIY store where I was a manager whenever I called out to deal with a big issue with a product if the person was nice and calm I’d do what I had to do and try to exceed their expectations (try and sort a bit of a discount on the replacement if I could wangle it in the locked systems we had OR a small gift like a free houseplant of their choice which always went down well). If I got someone coming in and quoting SOG act and more (threatening legal action was always a common one not that it would work) then I would do what I had to do and no more. This was in small part due to the fact that I didn’t want to help someone who treated me badly but also that I knew that a) no matter what I did they would never be happy so why go the extra mile and b) as soon as you give a little they see the crack and try to get all sorts of stuff for free.

Try to work with the dealers to come to a conclusion where you will both be happy.

Any decent smart phone will cover your requirements temporarily. E.g. Android Auto app - there is a stand alone version, will do calls and navigation hands free. Voice controlled too. Same must be available for iphones. Doesn't need to connect to the car system.

but they won’t be trying too hard to find other stock sources

I would have thought as a car dealer they will have only one stock source - the manufacturer who gives them the dealership. I would assume also that if it’s a warranty issue their hands may be tied in how to resolve it and still get the money and parts from the manufacturer for sorting it out.

It's certainly important to work with them but equally there are things you need to formalise. You do not need to be a dick about it but, to protect your rights you do have to do certain things.

It's just as possible to say "sorry but we need to reject" in a way which keeps everyone on side as it is to be a knob about it.

Jumping through the hoops you need to is not a nuclear option, it's not what you say, it's how you say it

There are quite a lot of misconceptions on here about rights.  this is a decent guide.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/cars

the key thing here IMO is that repairs must be done in a "reasonable" timeframe  Reasonable has a legal meaning which is basically " what the average person thinks"

In a case like this it would take a court to decide as the defect is not large so the car remains usable but the timescale is long

Yeah.

If its a manufacturing fault you do have a right to reject after one failed repair attempt and time scales for repair have to be “reasonable” which is very hard to define in this situation

I would suggest that "we don't know" is not a reasonable timeframe. Someone suggested that it's "only" the head unit and not the whole car - doesn't matter, there's no consumer rights laws which state that faulty goods are ok if they're only a bit faulty.

Really though, Matt and Hobo have it IMHO. There's "rights" and there's realistic. You could push for a full refund and probably get it eventually but, is it worth the grief in the current climate? I'd suggest that if they cannot supply the parts then ask them to provide an alternative aftermarket solution with the promise of a proper repair once parts are available.

I'd also point out that you're attempting to be reasonable when you are in fact monumentally pissed off. I would be, this is why you buy new cars.

Had similar with a blown aircon compressor...no data on available replacement...not deemed essential much back and forth got given a courtesy car...wasn't very courteous though the "service" manager handed me the key and pointed not a word
In a car used for business satnav and Bluetooth pretty essential and part of the buying decision

I thought this thread might run on a bit. We do love a good old consumer rights thread on here.
I’ve not a lot to add useful other than we have 2 VAG. Cars in the household with built in infotainment whatnots with sat nav. My Leon has been faultless for 2 years. The Skoda kodiaq was problematic from day 1 in dec 2017. Used to drop connection, freeze, etc but the issue that worried me most was the need to press the start button twice every time (keyless stop/start/entry). I was worried one day it just wouldn’t work. Took it back to the dealer we bought it from a couple of times. They replaced the whole infotainment unit. Couldn’t sort the problem. Took it to a different dealer, they replaced the start button. All problems disappeared and been fine for 3 years since.
The “replace the whole unit” solution is obviously first solution that comes up… is it worth asking if it’s the only solution?

You could push for a full refund and probably get it eventually but,

You do not have that legal right.  You have the right to  refund of  the new value minus the value of the use you have had.

I would expect a refund of around 90 - 95% of the price when you bought it leaving you a fair bit to stump up to get another new car

You are correct of course. That was inattentive wording on my part, good catch.

good catch.

I am
*preens*

With the shortage of electrical components i wouldn't be surprised if all of the 'over ordered warranty stock' has not been re alocated to the production line.

If you know you can shift a £24k car but its got to have infotainment to sell, and there are hundreds of units sitting on a shelf just in case they might be needed... And zero in the supply chain. You would roll those dice surely

Be nice, ask for sat nav loan from main stealers, cc in Seat uk. Bluetooth dongle from a motorway kiosk and crack on with other stuff

TJ's post reminded me of one about 6 months ago. Customer purchased a used Vito (12mths old) off us. He was quite a long way away but van was under manufacturers full warranty so he should have been looked after. He had the used van 12 months and phoned us up complaining. No prior warning of issues and as far as we were aware he was another happy customer. He tore me off a new one telling me the down time he had. Pretty run of the mill issues tbh, nothing major and it sounded like he was treating his local dealer like an arse so wasnt getting much in return. He went into great detail why he didnt want to keep the van. While he was telling me his issues i pulled up his sale file. As soon as he paused for breath i said it was unacceptable for him to be in such a situation and i felt really sorry for his inconvenience. In this instance i would offer him every penny he paid for his vehicle 12 months ago and offer him the pick of our current stock.

He never took me up on the offer because
a) He knew that every penny on his van meant he was seriously undervaluing his vehicle due to value increase
b) He knew that prices for the same or 12 month newer vans than his own were out of his price range now.

Lot of unrealistic expectations and first world problems on here.

Make sure you have it writing that the item failed within the warranty period and use a 3rd alternative till the item eventually comes into stock. Get a few services thrown in to cover the cost of a dashtop satnav.

The littlest hobo - yup.  If you want to go shouting about your rights make sure that you know your actual rights and that you have taken the correct steps along the way.

I guess this is where you find out if your dealer is any good or not, and whether your premium car is actually premium or just overpriced. New cars are a lot of money for just first world problems to be sucked up

Currently been looking at cars to replace ours, VAG group talking about 40+ weeks lead time on certain models with no obvious sign of it stopping anytime soon. In stock cars going as soon as they go up online. It's pretty brutal out there for cars at the moment.

If you give it back and get your money back cars are appreciating at the moment so you'd be in a worse position probably. I'd agree a workaround and help from the dealer and suck it up.