[Closed] Israel not behaving like a spoilt child at all...

Israel's Zionists do not want peace, they resemble children wi a stick poking a dog to get a suitable reaction so they can run around screaming "the dog bit me.... the dog bit me - put it down now".

The Zionists will hopefully get what they deserve in the end, fortunately there is a growing number of very decent Israelis who wish no part in the Zionists actions but whether or not they can do anything from within the country to stop the illegal settlement plan we'll have to wait and see.

Scum, is the correct term I feel.

One race persecuting another. Now where've I heard of a country doing that before?...

The Zionists are no better IMO.

Things might change once Iran gets nuclear war heads on their missiles. Israel might have start behaving responsibly and compromise.

There is a controlling element within Israel that is hellbent on expansion, confrontation and militarisation.

Until the US cuts their funding and the UN grows some bollocks nothing will change.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20466027

Words fail me

One race persecuting another. Now where've I heard of a country doing that before?...

Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Sierra Leone, Egypt.

It goes on all over.

Israel just stand out as the most powerful - both politically and in out and out military ability imho.

Israel's Zionists do not want peace...........

Unfortunately, neither do any of the other protagonists with any influence over it.

I hate Israel's attitude to Palestine - I can't believe that most countries support Israel (I know there is some history and politics behind it) but come on!!! Makes me sick to see they can get away with it just because they have links to some of the more powerful countries in the world.

I hope that Iran can sort them out (ideally using a nuclear deterrent than actually letting one off)

As above, it's all about the $$$$

Once the US stop funding them they'll have to stop behaving like ****s.

Let's hope sooner rather than later,

APF

They have been nothing but expansionist since it was created.

If they wee muslim we would bomb them back to the stonen age

Illegal nuclear weapons - CHECK
Keep invading its neighbour - CHECK
Kills folk abroad - CHECK

I dont understand why the west support them so much and the US in particular

Zionist seem to have disproportionate power and influence in the US as well - I suspect it is more likely Israel will wipe Palestine from the map than the other way round.
[img] [/img]

Where are the apologists this time I wonder?

a basic understanding of the issues is essential. three ethnic groups at each others throats for millenium are set further apart following the relocation of one group following thier near extermination in an other part of the world.

one group has a strong central belief/ faith that they are special above all others.

each group has members who harbour and hold dear thier grievances and will pursue them at all times both legitamtely and illegally to promote thier opinion.

i very much regret that this is a perpetual cycle of hate and violence with little to commend on either side.

a basic understanding of the issues is essential. three ethnic groups at each others throats for millenium are set further apart following the relocation of one group following thier near extermination in an other part of the world.

one group has a strong central belief/ faith that they are special above all others.

each group has members who harbour and hold dear thier grievances and will pursue them at all times both legitamtely and illegally to promote thier opinion.

i very much regret that this is a perpetual cycle of hate and violence with little to commend on either side.

a basic understanding of the issues is essential. three ethnic groups at each others throats for millenium are set further apart following the relocation of one group following thier near extermination in an other part of the world.

one group has a strong central belief/ faith that they are special above all others.

each group has members who harbour and hold dear thier grievances and will pursue them at all times both legitamtely and illegally to promote thier opinion.

i very much regret that this is a perpetual cycle of hate and violence with little to commend on either side.

The Zionists will hopefully get what they deserve in the end

This thread is full of the usual bunch of conspiracy nuts I see. I'm surprised any of you are fussed over this anyway - isn't the world going to end in a few weeks anyway?

There you go northwind here one is armed with ad hominems ,a non sequitor and comparing dislike of Israel to being a Nazi
Its hard to defeat such powerful arguments and it sure trumps debating the issues

Totalshell makes a very good point but my only real point is there is no way Israels current policies are going to lead to peace.

Well, you're rather anti semitic aren't you? Wearing your brown shirt today are we?

Nice presumption there, i hope they do get what the deserve, what goes around comes around in my belief system so if that makes me anti-semitic in your eyes then so be it.

And if the world does end in a few weeks 😉 , I can hold my hand up and say with complete honesty "I treated everyone i've met over my lifetime with decency and respect and how i treated them was how i would wish to be treated myself"

Anti-semitic?, if you say so, i'll certainly not lose any sleep over your opinion.

[url= http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/11/20121128105331462162.html ]Alternative opinion[/url]

This was an interesting read on the subject

THat link is a bit emotive and written from one side but it does make a good point re what Israels actual intentions are

"I believe that Israel made a grave and irresponsible strategic error by deciding to kill Mr Jabari." This is no Palestinian, or Arab, or Muslim commentator writing for any leftist, Islamist, or anti-Israeli venue. This is Gershon Baskin, the Israeli official in charge of negotiating with Hamas, writing for the New York Times. He continues:
Passing messages between the two sides, I was able to learn firsthand that Mr Jabari wasn't just interested in a long-term ceasefire; he was also the person responsible for enforcing previous cease-fire understandings brokered by the Egyptian intelligence agency. Mr Jabari enforced those ceasefires only after confirming that Israel was prepared to stop its attacks on Gaza. On the morning that he was killed, Mr Jabari received a draft proposal for an extended ceasefire with Israel, including mechanisms that would verify intentions and ensure compliance. This draft was agreed upon by me and Hamas' deputy foreign minister, Mr Hamad, when we met last week in Egypt.

So if Israel is indeed interested in peace and in protecting the lives of its own citizens, as Barack Obama and other American Zionists keep insisting, then why point blank assassinate the sole person who was able to deliver this peace and then launch a massive assault on civilian targets that guarantees to produce even more vengeful response? That does not make any sense. Does it?

Then continuining to settle which is the stop point for peace negotiations and then insisting on no clause negotiations- which means they carry on ignoring international law and UN resolutions.

I dont actually think they want peace and they dont need to whilst we bankroll them and dont call that assination terrorism and consider everything the Palestinians do as terrorism

It does look like, on the face of things, that Israel has no real interest in peace..

Yeah, if they were interested then they would surely take the high moral ground.

I recently met some israelis at a training course. Nice ladies, but when asked during the introduction to mention something interesting about them both mentioned something about being fearful of their lives wiht one saying "I'll be the only person here who has to go home and have to renew my gas mask"

What sort of country has their subjects living in such fear that it becomes a cross to bear? I got the impression from this and other things that the fear and hate of the situation was used to keep them focused in one direction and almost together as a people.

Well, you're rather anti semitic aren't you? Wearing your brown shirt today are we?

Since you brought it up, do you actually know what a 'Semite' is?

Here's a clue, both the Israeli/Jewish people AND the Palestinians are a Semetic people. The Pro-Zionist camp has very cleverly made it so that 'Semite' = Jew when that is not the whole story.

Unless of course you are accusing someone of disliking the whole region and the ethnicity of the people who live there.

Whilst that is true the term anti semitic is taken to mean hatred of Jews

Its why everyone uses the phrase Zionist [ its not racist to dislike what the state does is it?] as no one [ on this thread I assume] actually hates Jews they just hate/dislike or disapprove of what Israel does and that is not the same thing howeve rmuch the apologist try an twist it.

Yes, what totalshell said is a very rounded, accurate opinion I believe. "i very much regret that this is a perpetual cycle of hate and violence with little to commend on either side. "

I too believe this is true. This issue is far too complex to brand one side as any more guilty than the other. Especially sitting at home in the cosy little UK in your favorite armchair slurping a cup of tea. Perhaps those of you who are doing so, and being entirely racist in suggesting that one side should be wiped out "because it's what's coming to them" should A) be ashamed of yourself, and B) stfu.

Anti-semitic?, if you say so, i'll certainly not lose any sleep over your opinion.

I feel this thread is just another opportunity for the anti semites to come out of the woodwork and preach their hate using a conflict they neither understand nor want to understand. You don't really care about the people of Gaza, who are living under a terrorist dictatorship, nor do you care for the people of Israel, who's government is intent on causing chaos.

Well, you're rather anti semitic aren't you? Wearing your brown shirt today are we?

No and No

You Muppet

Have you considered actually thinking rather than just typing?

Your points are just illogical tosh

You can hold any opinion you want but your reasoning is absolutely awful.
No one but you has said they should be wiped out so well done in defeating a made up argument

the full quote made by one person so no need to pluralise your attack

The Zionists will hopefully get what they deserve in the end, fortunately there is a growing number of very decent Israelis who wish no part in the Zionists actions but whether or not they can do anything from within the country to stop the illegal settlement plan we'll have to wait and see.

If you think that is a call to eradicate Israel then you are making huge leaps that make me want to point and laugh at you rather than explain why its wrong

Anti-semitic?, if you say so, i'll certainly not lose any sleep over your opinion.
It's there in black and white, not only did you suggest it, you just confirmed it.

Here let me translate

No i am not I and I dont care what you think - its not even hard to work this out

In your eyes one form of racism is worse than the other, and yet you criticise one group for being a racist, extremely violent movement whilst essentially suggesting their extinction would be a good thing, based purely on THEIR beliefs and where they come from. Pure filth.

Your posts are illogical gibberish where you dont seem to be able to reason or get a point.

I feel this thread is just another opportunity for the anti semites to come out of the woodwork and preach their hate using a conflict they neither understand nor want to understand.

You don't really care about the people of Gaza, who are living under a terrorist dictatorship,

You really are one of the silliest posters I have seen on here in a long while

ad homines, straw mans and insults is you all have - save me the trouble of insulting me when you reply as we will take it as a given

Disliking israel current policies is not to hate jews any more than criticising china govt for human right means I [ or any one else] hate the Chineses

calling us all racists just makes you look even sillier

Pff, [i]everyone[/i] knows that you can't criticise Israel without being antisemitic. Obvious innit.

I'm out, cheers 🙄

Not sure it needed saying three times but what 'totalshell' sums it up in succinct fashion.

I just wish for peace. The politics is very complicated. I don't see why little kids should be dying though. It's a ****ed up situation that pisses me off. More people should care about this..

Is there an echo in here?

there an echo in here?

an echo in here?

echo in here?

in here?

here?

Its democratically elected

I too believe this is true. This issue is far too complex to brand one side as any more guilty than the other.

Why do you persistently do that then?

Really.. you were there were you?

Were you?

This isnt going to end well. I think with all palestinian/israeli threads people should be forced to give their religious beliefs before posting.

I am non-religious. The whole lot of them need their heads banged together.

😕

Weird glitchiness again.

nukeproofriding - Member

Its democratically elected

Really.. you were there were you? A 'fair' 'democratic' election it was not. You've seen what those people do to innocent civilians who they accuse of being 'Israeli spies' haven't you? They decapitate you and drag you through the street in front of your family who are too terrified to do anything, because they'll be next. Bullshit. You're full of it.

[b][i]"The elections to the Palestinian Legislative Council were conducted in a well-organised and democratic fashion, better than seen in some Council of Europe member states, according to a nine-member delegation from the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly which observed the elections".

"The delegation deeply regrets that, again, the Israeli authorities impeded adequate voting arrangements for the Palestinian population, as well as campaigning by political parties and candidates, in East Jerusalem".[/i][/b]

[url= https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?Ref=PR047%282006%29&Sector=secDC&Language=lanEnglish&Ver=original&BackColorInternet=F5CA75&BackColorIntranet=F5CA75&BackColorLogged=A9BACE ]Elections for the Palestinian Legislative Council show the level of democratic development of Palestinian society[/url]

Bullshit. You're full of it.

I am under the threat of a permanent ban for saying stuff not even remotely offensive as that. I take it nukeproofriding that you are an Israeli and therefore can say and do whatever you damn well like ......after all anyone suggesting otherwise is clearly a brown shirt wearing antisemitic Nazi, no?

So where is the Pharaoh when you need him eh?

a basic understanding of the issues is essential. three ethnic groups at each others throats for millenium

Trotting out this utter toss obscures the real economic origins and underpinnings of the conflict - it encourages shoulder-shrugging "well, you can't do nuffink about them lot, can you?, there's no point in tryina talk to em" and obscures pathways to peace (or, at least, compromise). It's great for the various shades of lunatic that do well out of the conflict but not so great for everyone else.

Ernie a threat of a permanent ban? That would be a shame. Whats going on with the mods on here?

It would appear that left wing gobshites are under threat of a permanent ban and right wing ones are tolerated 😕

ts democratically elected
Really.. you were there were you? A 'fair' 'democratic' election it was not

Can I have your source for that - anyway your point was it was a dictatorship - I am going to simply try and tell you which logical fallacy you are using each time you post in an attempt to get you to at least learn something

Thats is called moving the goal posts - trying to argue something else - you claimed it was a dictatorship - its not is it. You now want to debate how democratic it is.

Its used to change the argument rather than admitting you were wrong
Its an admission that you will never admit you are wrong even when everyone knows you are including you

Now , as well as not looking like the sharpest tool, you also seem to have a poorly developed character as well- GO you.

What would you like to ignore now and attack instead?

Let's face facts there will never be peace in the region. We will eventually get to the end game with all out war in the region . Best we keep out of it and let it take its course rather than the endless cycle of tit for tat killings. Only then will they truly come to the peace table. Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo

nukeproofriding - reported for being inflammatory.

It would appear that left wing gobshites are under threat of a permanent ban and right wing ones are tolerated

Junkyard you don't seem to be partisan with who you have a go at.

Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo

I kinda had enough after the last one but what you're saying doesn't hold. Most of the anti-zionist (including me in the last marathon thread) posters have stated over and over that they're not anti-jew, merely anti-zionist and anti-lots of Israeli policies, none of which will ever lead to peace.

Branding someone anti-Jew just because he or or she doesn't really fancy Israel much is a bit unfair (and controversial).

.

Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo

🙄

Find me one quote in any of these threads where anyone has criticised Jews, as opposed to Zionists or the state of Israel. Despite repeated attempts to conflate the two, they aren't one and the same.

Junkyard you don't seem to be partisan with who you have a go at.

Well, given that he is one of the new focus points for the right wing trolls, Zulu in particular, since TJ got the boot and ernie stopped posting (though I see he's back, welcome ernie 🙂 hope you're back for a while), I think he remains remarkably calm when goaded.

DD that doesn't really address my point but the way he deals with clowns like Zulu is counter productive IMO, give Zulu enough rope and he always hangs himself.

Most of the anti-zionist ... posters have stated over and over that they're not anti-jew

Well, I lolled.

I should know better really...

But, at what?

given that he is one of the new focus points for the right wing trolls, Zulu in particular, since TJ got the boot and ernie stopped posting

Pig face I am not sure what your point is tbh

Re the thread Suggesting anyone who dislikes Israel's actions is a jew hating racist is just stupid

Perhaps all the Israels are arab haters given they dislike Iran? [ they are not is just an example of a stupid argument]
I dislike Chinas human rights record and saudi arabias [ amongst other arab/islamic countries] treatment of women so I must be really racist or perhaps there are some principles i view these countries as violating.

The racism argument is not even worth debating on theses threads

chewkw - Member
So where is the Pharaoh when you need him eh?

[img] [/img]

This guy?

Best we keep out of it and let it take its course rather than the endless cycle of tit for tat killings

It would certainly be interesting to see what would happen were the US to withdraw its support for Israel. It's undoubtedly been one of the biggest factors in prolonging the problem.

Obama's just been re-elected, and is in his last term as Prez. Hope he decides to do the right thing.

I fear the outcome if the USA was either behind lsrael or stayed out of it would be the same. A badly trained and equipped Arab army up against a ell trained and motivated army with the best weapons available. Only one winner (if that is the correct term). The USA for all its faults also restrains the lsrael. No winners in this one l'm afraid

Dont think anyone is being anti-jew, my issue is very much with the regime in the same way various other regimes havent been that constructive. It doesnt mean we hate the people it just means enough is enough on how they act - look at gaddafi, doesnt mean we hate Libyans, look at the taliban, doesnt mean we hate afghanis, looks at george bush, doesnt mean we hate americans, look at the regime in North Korea, doesnt mean we hate north koreans. What is does mean is something is out of kilter in the ideals the regimes in power hold and change would be beneficial but this problem is down to those in power than the majority of people living there.

Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo

Suggesting anyone who dislikes Israel's actions is a jew hating racist is just stupid

Grum on the last closed thread ,one post read "what shall we do with the Jewish problem" .when in our history have we heard that? If anyone posted on here what shall we do with the black problem there would be out cry and rightfully so. I called no one racist ,but l do stand by what l said. Debate is great ,just chose your words wisely is the point l was trying to make

when the zionists have been removed from 'power' , by their own people, only then will any meaningful peace process begin. A regime that relies on militaristic conflict in order to survive does not have many options.

Only when the majority of israelis have realised that Zionism is not in their interests can any progress be possible.The fact that it suits the US to have israel serving on its behalf in the region is no help.

History shows that things can change very quickly,what appear as immovable objects become illusory tricks, so while it may appear to be a hopeless situation, it never is .

Now , as well as not looking like the sharpest tool, you also seem to have a poorly developed character as well- GO you.

That's an interesting way of saying how angry you are that I dare have a differing opinion. Grow up will you? Your pompous, hedonistic, high and mighty ego comes across even on an internet forum.

Stop shooting down peoples opinions when they posit perfectly logical intelligent arguments simply because you disagree with them. I am not 'stupid' because you disagree with me. Ok?

Re the thread Suggesting anyone who dislikes Israel's actions is a jew hating racist is just stupid

Im out.

Im out.

Of Palestine?

Of Palestine?

Lets be honest the whole region is a ****ing mess.

The difficulty is that disparate problems and issues get conflated due to reasons of history and prejudice on both sides.

Take Israel and Iran. Personally I don't find it difficult to support Israel's position on Iran. A nuclear armed neighbour on your doorstep who doesn't like you very much is not something any of us would like to contemplate (and yes I know the only nuclear armed state in the region is actually Israel)

Israel and Palestine is a separate issue and here its difficult to side with the Israelis. The conflict is hugely asymmetric - just look at the casualties on either side whenever the conflict heats up. There seems to be a determined land grab by Israeli settlers despite this being one of the main stumbling blocks to peace negotiations with the Palestinians.

To be honest Israel's actions and their attitude towards the whole process suggests they aren't interested in peace negotiations as they feel that they are winning.

Take Israel and Iran. Personally I don't find it difficult to support Israel's position on Iran. A nuclear armed neighbour on your doorstep who doesn't like you very much is not something any of us would like to contemplate (and yes I know the only nuclear armed state in the region is actually Israel [b]and they don't like their neighbours[/b].)

"what shall we do with the Jewish problem" .when in our history have we heard that? If anyone posted on here what shall we do with the black problem there would be out cry and rightfully so.

That's an interesting way of saying how angry you are that I dare have a differing opinion.

Grow up will you? Your pompous, hedonistic, high and mighty ego comes across even on an internet forum.

Stop shooting down peoples opinions

when they posit perfectly logical intelligent arguments simply because you disagree with them.

I am not 'stupid' because you disagree with me. Ok?

[b]You can hold any opinion you want but your reasoning is absolutely awful.[/b]

No one can deny just how off key that is,

and it disgusted me. You should be disgusted for trying to pass it off as an acceptable comment, just because the poster was arguing the same point as you.

I feel this thread is just another opportunity for the anti semites to come out of the woodwork and preach their hate using a conflict they neither understand nor want to understand

You say folk are stupid hate filled racist for disagreeing with you then you use hate filled language to say that is all I am doing to you

The irony is at stellar levels now.

If you wish to keep posting could you try actually formulating a logical argument with out insults? Should kepe your word count down if nothing else

What? If you're going to accuse me of something at least be man enough to actually accuse me of it.

Thought you were out?

The only things I could confidently accuse you of are being a bit daft and a bit nasty. Or a not-very-good troll.

I think with all palestinian/israeli threads people should be forced to give their religious beliefs before posting

I think the problem when discussing Israel is that it is impossible to separate the Israeli national identity from the Jewish faith. Just because somebody disagrees with their security policies with regard to Palestine does not mean they are anti-jewish. My own opinion of Israel is that they are increasingly acting like a bully. For sure Hamas have inflicted some terrible atrocities on Israel over the years but as has been stated above in other posts if another country acted in the way Israel has (grabbing land that isn't theirs, launching strikes on civilian areas etc) we would view them as a rogue state and treat them as such.

Perhaps the rest of the world needs to get over the collective political holocaust guilt which seems to be clouding everybodies judgement and stop treating Israel with kid gloves. Their increasingly aggressive behaviour could do a lot of damage in an area of the world that could do without further conflict.

Come on guys give nukeproofriding a break, he's given himself the job of defending the in-defensible, he's bound to come across as a nasty incoherent idiot. 🙄

kicks server

Kicks it harder

Well said Big Dave.

2'nd for Big Dave's post, I'm glad someone mentioned the holocaust guilt-trip that seems to pervade a few forum members reactionary posts whenever the subject of Israel is brought up.

It beggars belief to see how Israel can possibly justify the following expansion into the E1 area of the west bank, imagine someone gradually encroaching on your area of land, taking it bit by bit each year till you are left staring across a void to your family on the other side, you are not permitted free movement without being subjected to humiliating searches and questioning under threat of arrest and detention - how would you react to this treatment?.

That sounds suspiciously like a certain program initiated by the Gestapo to control the movement of the Jewish population interred in the Ghettos during 1940. Personally i am disgusted with the current plans for expansion of the settlements and it shows clear and wanton disregard of any intention for peace by the current Zionist leadership.

[img] [/img]

If you wish to keep posting could you try actually formulating a logical argument with out insults? Should kepe your word count down if nothing else

I began by doing that but have been ground down by successive insult after insult and heads like hardboard, so I guess I've lost my touch 🙂

Come on guys give nukeproofriding a break, he's given himself the job of defending the in-defensible, he's bound to come across as a nasty incoherent idiot.

I never set out intending to defend anyone, nor have I ever said Israel is in anyway "right" - because in actuality I've said on a number times their actions are often wrong and that their leadership is dubious. All I did was suggest (to everybody's horror) that they were being very one sided talking about an issue that was far more complicated than they wanted to accept.

I said I was out, so can you stop talking about me? Or do you have no one better to have a dig at for no reason? Cheers 🙂 Don't call me nasty either. I'd imagine my comments would be incoherent to an idiot like you, yes. Just like the alphabet.

What I don't understand is why you're all so intent on making it personal. The wolf pack mentality is both hilarious sad at the same time, I think you all need to go down the pub and make some real friends 🙂

Thank you and goodbye.

Satire.

I began by doing that but have been ground down by successive insult after insult and heads like hardboard, so I guess I've lost my touch

Well, you're rather anti semitic aren't you? Wearing your brown shirt today are we?
This thread is full of the usual bunch of conspiracy nuts I see. I'm surprised any of you are fussed over this anyway - isn't the world going to end in a few weeks anyway?

Well there is your opening post in all its glory- It is indeed very much like you describe 😕

All I did was suggest (to everybody's horror) that they were being very one sided talking about an issue that was far more complicated than they wanted to accept.

Perhaps those of you who are doing so, and being entirely racist in suggesting that one side should be wiped out "because it's what's coming to them" should A) be ashamed of yourself, and B) stfu.

I feel this thread is just another opportunity for the anti semites to come out of the woodwork and preach their hate using a conflict they neither understand nor want to understand. You don't really care about the people of Gaza, who are living under a terrorist dictatorship, nor do you care for the people of Israel, who's government is intent on causing chaos.

I said I was out, so can you stop talking about me? Or do you have no one better to have a dig at for no reason? Cheers Don't call me nasty either. I'd imagine my comments would be incoherent to an idiot like you, yes. Just like the alphabet.

What I don't understand is why you're all so intent on making it personal. The wolf pack mentality is both hilarious sad at the same time, I think you all need to go down the pub and make some real friends

I tend to avoid these threads for obvious reasons, so this may have been posted before - but I thought it was worth sharing in case not.

Very moving and encapsulates the way the appalling Israeli regime and its apologists attempt to manipulate international opinion....

I also keep out of these debates, but that clip was worth watching. It would be interesting to understand the context better. It seems quite a jump from the girl's (Jewish?) comments to the response from Finkelstein. Are they not arguing completely different points?

She: its offensive to use the term Nazi.
He: I am not going to use the holocaust (especially given my family's history) as a justification for current Israeli policies

Have I misunderstood this/their positions? What exactly is the link between their views and the subsequent argument?

(edit: I see that Finkelstein has quite a career and a long running spat with Harvard's Dershowitz, who I have only read re torture. Makes me want to understand the context even more.)