[Closed] Is This Why G4S Got It So Wrong

All that aside but how the hell are you meant to fell secure when they are £ 8.50 per hr.

Isn't £8.50 per hour more than most squaddies get?

Plenty are getting diddled by the olympics

Plenty are getting diddled by the olympics

Isn't £8.50 per hour more than most squaddies get?

Full pay scales here and full pension after 22 years

Well they're providing shipping containers for them to sleep in, so if they shut the doors they'll be pretty secure..

Junkyard - Member

Isn't £8.50 per hour more than most squaddies get?

£17.5 k for a private so about the same for 40 hour week for the lowest rank.
So no almost no squaddie [ training only] gets that

Full pay scales here and full pension after 22 years

Doubtless there are soldiers who work a 40 hour week, but many will work far longer than that. On operations 90/100 hours per week will not be in uncommon and often for months and months on end. The military are not paid on the basis of a 9-5, then piss off home. I hope to God that G4S are properly hammered over this.

true. However we will have civilians and troops working side by side and the troops will be paid the higher rate for almost every single squaddie which i think counters Dracs point

Isnt G4S the company formerly known as Group4 ? who kept losing prisoners in transit so they changed their name ?

Yep £8.50 an hour for 4-5 weeks = so probably £2k max; and G4S get £8k for supplying them...

G4S didn't get it wrong, its the London Olympic crowd who got it so wrong - 'cos G4S get paid for anyone they supply, and no fines for any they don't...

Edric 64 - Member
Isnt G4S the company formerly known as Group4 ? who kept losing prisoners in transit so they changed their name ?

Yep thats them 🙄

So no almost no squaddie [ training only] gets that
Full pay scales here and full pension after 22 years

What would they get on the first few weeks then? As the Olympics isn't running for 22 years.

It is more than our classroom assistants get in schools.
Maybe mrs_oab should offer to help and up her wages...

how many people in this country are out of work? couldn't the government have come up with some scheme for a couple of weeks where people on benefits get paid a full wage from G4S but still get their benefits?

That way they get their volunteers "ok, you do the work, you don't have the hassle of signing off then signing back on, you get to be a part of the olympics and you get some extra cash in your pocket too"

I'm sure that flies in the face of benefits and getting a job, but for a couple of weeks wouldn't it benefit most people involved?

@ Drac So the army is recruiting just for the Olympics and then only paying the training rate then releasing them?

I dont even know what point you are trying to make here tbh.

that is too well thought out there Bobba fett and does not allow a private company to make shit loads of money out of the arrangement.

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypayscales.htm

I'm sure that flies in the face of benefits and getting a job, but for a couple of weeks wouldn't it benefit most people involved?

Well they could be taxed in that period I guess which would "put something back". Seems like it'd be a good plan.

Who are all these people who're going to sign up for a couple of weeks' work at whatever rate (and attend training beforehand - is that paid at all ?) ?

I assume they're "all" currently unemployed (unless there's throngs of working people going to either resign or take leave to allow attendance).

My guess it's a right ballache to re-sign on for benefits after a short spell of employment - is that right ? They also need to travel to the venues and possibly pay for accommodation, do they ?

I wouldn't do it anyway but I deffo wouldn't do it on those terms (though I admit I've assumed them - and when you assume, there's no I in team, or something)

Isnt G4S the company formerly known as Group4 ? who kept losing prisoners in transit so they changed their name ?

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14705328 ]They are also the company who managed to put a home curfew tag on an offender's false leg.[/url]

My point is it's temporary job so the pay scale is going to be low. I was wrong with most squaddies, possibly, I'm not sure what what allowances they get for operational duties. But stating they get a pension after 22 years irrelevant because like I say the job is temporary not for 22 years so you can't compare that.

My point overall is that the £8.50 won't buy protection is a bit daft as I thought junior squaddies hourly rate was around £7.50 an hour

fnar fnar £8.50 fnar.

I call troll. Or Should I
say I Call Troll.

My guess it's a right ballache to re-sign on for benefits after a short spell of employment - is that right ?

hourly rate would depend on hours worked as as noted above we could debate that for ever. I think it is reasonable to say it is less than what the squaddies will be on on average if not every case.

The G4S security positions I saw the links too were minimum wage. £6 an hour? Bearing in mind that the place you'll be working in will be the most expensive location in the known universe, come the start of the Olympics, I can understand a lack of enthusiasm

There's also crazy anomalies,like their being no public transport available at the times their shifts would finish. I'm pretty sure subsistence level wages are prohibitive to car ownership

Given the [i]utterly[/i] cackhanded nature of this affair, let us re-visit the glory that is the G4S theme tune [i]Securing Your World[/i] - coming to a Police station near you, very soon!

[url= http://soundcloud.com/user6060683/01-g4s-securing-your-world ][i]You love your job and the people too
Making a difference is what you do
But consider all you have at stake
The time is now don’t make a mistake
Because the enemy prowls, wanting to attack
But we’re on the wall, we’ve got your back
So get out front and take the lead
And be the winner you were born to be
G4S! protecting the world
G4S! so dreams can unfurl
24/7 every night and day
A warrior stands ready so don’t be afraid
G4S! secure in your world
G4S! let your dreams unfurl
We’re guarding you with all our might
Keeping watch throughout the night[/i][/url]

The dumbass privatisation of public services, as conveyed in the form of song.

Thank god the Army have taken over and Theresa May should be fired.

So the last government totally overlooked any security arrangements for the olympics did they. The olympics is yet another fiasco left behind for someone else to sort out by an incompetant bunch of morons.

I assume they're "all" currently unemployed (unless there's throngs of working people going to either resign or take leave to allow attendance).

A large proportion of the people who are unemployed at any one point in time are people who are in and out of short-term and temporary employment, so for most people who would take on a job like this the temporary nature of it is not at all unusual.

Also... its summertime, I'd imagine a lot of the posts would be filled by students

The wage doesn't seem all that unusual for event security and stewarding - people do the same work at music festivals for a free ticket (then find themselves standing in a carpark pointing for 4 days, out of ear shot of the music). We are talking 'security' in the sense of a high viz jacket standing near a gate sense aren't we? Not in the close-protection talking into your cufflink , take a bullet for the president sense.

yet another fiasco left behind

Nobody is excusing NuLav - the incumbent politicos are simply enlarging on the privatisation process which was well-established under Bliar and Broon. And I notice that May isn't doing anything to stop the handing over of Polis back-office & support services to this bunch of jokers.

I can't wait until G4S, Crapita and Serco run everything in security, healthcare and defence - it will all be so, y'know, [i]efficient[/i].

We are talking 'security' in the sense of a high viz jacket standing near a gate sense aren't we?

A WHISTLEBLOWER who worked with G4S on preparing security personnel for London 2012 has said there is a "50 per cent" chance of a bomb being carried into an Olympic venue when the Games begin in two weeks' time.

He told Sky News that trainees who failed basic tasks were still given a security badge and approved to work in the Olympic park. One security guard failed to find a 9mm pistol hidden in a volunteer's sock during a patdown while another allowed a 'terrorist' who put a mock bomb through an X-ray machine to melt away into the crowd.

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/olympics/47956/g4s-whistleblower-50-cent-chance-olympics-bomb#ixzz20hShiZmp

Gorehound - Member

So the last government totally overlooked any security arrangements for the olympics did they. The olympics is yet another fiasco left behind for someone else to sort out by an incompetant bunch of morons.

I like this- last week when everyone thought Labour made the contract with G4S, it was all their fault for making a bad contract and the Tories couldn't be blamed. This week, now we know the Tories made the bad contract, it's Labour's fault for not making a good contract before the Tories could **** it up

For some on here, no matter what happens they just let their political bias decide their view irrespective of the actual facts

What else should the Last govt have planned for 2 years after they were not in power? the health service, NHS reform etc?

^^ pretty much they charge out each unit at about 2-3 what they are actually paying them (would hazard a guess at £20/hour/per unit), so because they've been so cheap/ greedy on the personel front, they are going to get well and truly turned over.
Serves them right for being yet another greedy supplier/contractor to the olympics IMO

[i]so because they've been so cheap/ greedy on the personel front, they are going to get well and truly turned over.[/i]

Which is not what is actually going to happen - I can't imagine that the 'missing' income will even make it as a footnote in their quarterly report...

Northwind - Member
Gorehound - Member
So the last government totally overlooked any security arrangements for the olympics did they. The olympics is yet another fiasco left behind for someone else to sort out by an incompetant bunch of morons.

I like this- last week when everyone thought Labour made the contract with G4S, it was all their fault for making a bad contract and the Tories couldn't be blamed. This week, now we know the Tories made the bad contract, it's Labour's fault for not making a good contract before the Tories could **** it up

Dam Northwind you beat me to it !

Put it this way Gorehand.
Two weeks back I was talking to someone whom has his son in the Army and
they was getting ready in Cyprus and was told that half of his Platoon was going to
Afghanistan and those that where going Afghanistan where more happy going there
than those whom was going to the Olympics so yes having G4S is a joke contract.

IMO having the olympics is a joke and it's going to cost us the taxpayer a bloody fortune, and who is going to get the blame for the whole fiasco?

I like this- last week when everyone thought Labour made the contract with G4S, it was all their fault for making a bad contract and the Tories couldn't be blamed. This week, now we know the Tories made the bad contract, it's Labour's fault for not making a good contract before the Tories could **** it up.

So labour didn't make any security arrangements for the biggest sporting event this country is going to host. That is just typical of their fly by night mickey mouse way of running things that has got this country in the mess it's in now (even though you socailist idiots are too brainwashed/braindead to see it. Granted the tories aren't much better, but nobody can deny the last labour government was the worst this country has ever had.

Yep most people would say its a Joke and even worse when I live
within the Borough Newham where it is being held.

regarding the TAX payer well think we be paying for it for the next 22 years approx.
To blame Olympic committee I suppose?

Only 22 years?. Better than the EU then. We'll be paying for that joke for bloody ever.

We should just pick up the whole country/island, and move it so we adjoin Canada/Norway/Japan/South Korea and have done with it.

Also think the Olympics would have been better placed somewhere like Manchester/Glasgow/Birmingham/Bristol/Newcastle, somewhere that has AMPLE brownfield sites going for peanuts, and have significantly more people willing to get the key jobs filled out and done.

Up north all we ever hear/see/actually happens, is London/ the south gets everything remotely worthwhile, and we're just lumped with the combined bill when it doesn't work out. Thanks for that.

regarding the TAX payer well think we be paying for it for the next 22 years approx.

G4S became so when group 4 bought securicor iirc.
having worked for them I was concerned when I heard they were protecting the paying visitors but, as I'm an olympa-grump with no tickets, not too concerned obviously.

oh yeah and I call troll on gorehound

i find it interesting that it's all come to the fore now as i've just been talking to the partner of an armed forces member. he found he was going to get leave cancelled three months ago because of the G4S cock up.
three months........the papers are missing something

oh yeah and I call troll on gorehound

So telling it how it is is considered trolling in your world is it?

In his defence I think he probably thought no one could be as stupid as believe what you type.
thanks for clearing up the confusion.

I mean

[b]nobody[/b] can deny the last labour government was the worst this country has ever had.

So telling it how it is

Other phrase you may need to get used to are Swivel eyed loon

Yours
[s]Junkyard[/s]
socailist idiots are too brainwashed/braindead to see it.

So now the insults start flying. Really sad aren't you.

Junky, you're taking teh interwebz too seriously again.

Just ignore all the waffle and have a beer! 🙂

Junky, you're taking teh interwebz too seriously again.

Just ignore all the waffle and have a beer! 🙂

also, the squaddies will get fed and have there housing supplied. And will get a bonus (LSA I think but I might be wrong the clerks used to do my admin)

Ignores flashheart and carries on

So now the insults start flying. Really sad aren't you.

Pretty sure they started about here from you 🙄

socailist idiots are too brainwashed/braindead to see it

The olympics is yet another fiasco left behind for someone else to sort out by an incompetant bunch of morons.

Might I suggest if you find it rather sad you refrain from it yourself?

incompetant bunch of morons.

Granted the tories aren't much better, but nobody can deny the last labour government was the worst this country has ever had.

Worse governments - many from left and right. worst of course is the Previous tory lot - the damage they did to our country may never be repaired

achievements of Labour 97 ->
Minimum wage
Working tax credits
Investing in the NHS to bring it to near EU average in terms of funding and ability - still below but not as bad as it was
Scottish devolution
Massive reductions in poverty

But of course all these things are anathema to swivel eyed right wing loons

But of course all these things are anathema to swivel eyed right wing loons

So telling it how it is is considered trolling in your world is it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18856922

Whoops!

EDIT: This is Mrs Toast on Mr Toast's laptop. Again, whoops!

from above,17 staff of g4s have turned up and frontline police ahve been brought in to do their job, bet they (police) dont like the reduction in pay and working conditions.

Its not as if the rate payers of manchester are having to fund those police officers for a total failure of management to get staff to turn up for work.

I heard that G4S could not confirm whether/when/where people would be required so even those that were offered jobs weren't necessarily going to turn up.

Isn't £8.50 per hour more than most squaddies get?

£17.5 k for a private so about the same for 40 hour week for the lowest rank.
So no almost no squaddie [ training only] gets that

Full pay scales here and full pension after 22 years

Doubtless there are soldiers who work a 40 hour week, but many will work far longer than that. On operations 90/100 hours per week will not be in uncommon and often for months and months on end.

junior squaddies' hourly rate was £7.50

also, the squaddies will get fed and have there housing supplied. And will get a bonus (LSA I think but I might be wrong the clerks used to do my admin

rat packs are all right, better than **** all. Also i have dossed down in worse places than a un-used shopping centre

I would be kicking right off. any other "deployment" (which this will be) will get extra cash. (unless they class this as a Ex)

8.50 buys you two mcdonalds meals and one coke.

OR

Pop it all on a credit card and not bother

She's got to go - utter incompetence from Theresa May from the get go since she took up office.

Technically, the military doesn't work to an hourly rate and is exempt from minimum wage legislation but, if you wanted to look at it that way, given soldiers, sailors and airmen are liable for duty/to recall 24/7/365 for the duration they are in service, the hourly rate would be £1.99.

Stood side by side at the Olympics doing the same job almost every squaddie will be on more money than a civilian counterpart and they wont have to pay for their own meals either.

Will the squaddies be armed?

if they are not i would imagine that there gats wont be too far away. (locked up in a container some where in the building/armoury)

No the Squaddies are not armed at the moment but are floating around.

Ive just got back from travelling from Beckton to Tower Gateway (Tower Hill)
return on the Docklands Light Railway and have seen plenty of the G4S recruits
and if they are security then I am glad I am not going anywhere near that place.

If one could sum them up I would say they have an IQ and appearance of a bus driver.
Just thank god we have the Army has proper security.

Very scary indeed

Yes, clearly privatised services work like a dream....(these ideological free market zealots seem incapable of learning anything.)

Ps Grantway - what's the problem with bus drivers?

Yes, clearly privatised services work like a dream....(these ideological free market zealots seem incapable of learning anything.)

Actually the Army are publicly owned and really very efficient. The only military inefficiencies are when they have private enterprise forced upon them either in purchasing equipment ( lowest bidder wins) or logistics ( just enough just in time ).

As demonstrated by the Olympics the goal of private enterprise is to extract as much revenue as possible for the least effort and pay as little tax as possible.

private enterprise is really a good way of providing corner shops but as it scales up it becomes anti social in supermarkets counter productive in education health and transport and positively dangerous in policing and security.

Just thank god we have the Army has proper security.

Is that because the army has never been fooled by Al-Qaeda ?

I would say they have an IQ and appearance of a bus driver.

I have no idea what IQ bus drivers have - what is it then ? And what distinguishing appearance do they have which makes them recognisable ?

rat packs are all right, better than **** all. Also i have dossed down in worse places than a un-used shopping centre

I would be kicking right off. any other "deployment" (which this will be) will get extra cash. (unless they class this as a Ex)

if they are not i would imagine that there gats wont be too far away. (locked up in a container some where in the building/armoury

crankboy - Member
Actually the Army are publicly owned and really very efficient. The only military inefficiencies are when they have private enterprise forced upon them either in purchasing equipment ( lowest bidder wins) or logistics ( just enough just in time ).

What a load of rubbish, plenty of inefficiency in the army. Anyone who has had an involvement with logistics or equipment management could tell you that.

I'd like to know the halcyon period when the British soldier wasn't given kit made by the lowest bidder meeting the specification or given kit that was more expensive but less effective to keep certain suppliers happy/ in the national interest?

What a load of rubbish, plenty of inefficiency in the army

This is the key problem of having an extreme point of view....

He says.

And then follows it with this amusing comment :

The main difference for me is that in the private sector I have a choice.

Your ideology might lead you to naively believe that "private sector" automatically equates with "choice", but some people have more realistic and less extremist opinions.

And then follows it with this amusing comment :

Your ideology might lead you to naively believe that "private sector" automatically equates with "choice", but some people have more realistic and less extremist opinions.

And equally ernesto by rejecting the middle ground, you're demonstating the narrow minded extrmist view that I find quite basic and simply by you calling someone naive or extreme doesn't actually make it so. Have a nice day.

Obviously you don't see it DS because, to use your terminology, in your "own little world" you automatically equate private sector with choice. However even privatisation zealots in Tory governments have recognised that this is not necessarily so, specially in the utility sector, hence the setting up of industry regulators.

And right across the private sector one of the priorities to maximise profit is to minimise consumer choice - "monopolies" do not equate with choice, the clue is in the "mono" bit. Therefore the need for a Competition Commission, or Monopolies and Mergers Commission as it used to be called.

And since you have brought up the NHS and healthcare, I'll remind you that the NHS and healthcare in the UK is undergoing massive fundamental changes. This is as a direct result of choices which 30 million people made in May 2010. Where there is democratic control there are choices.

And right across the private sector one of the priorities to maximise profit is to minimise consumer choice - "monopolies" do not equate with choice, the clue is in the "mono" bit. Therefore the need for a Competition Commission, or Monopolies and Mergers Commission as it used to be called.

I'll make it easier for you ernesto, I have a point of view that is different from you. The more you rant and try to put your own slant on what people say, the less I am likely to warm to it. I am comfortable with my opinion and am even more comfortable that different people have different opinions. Those who sit at the extreme ends of the spectrum get less of my time and those who have no more a convincing argument than call others "swivel eyed loons" are simply opening themselves up to ridicule.
Off for a bike ride now, happy marching ernesto.

What choice does a poor person have in regard to healthcare? Where can a state pensioner go if not the NHS?

Ah, now I get it...........this is obviously a wind up !

No one can possibly be suggesting, in all seriousness, that public sector provided healthcare robs poor people and state pensioners of choices.

Haha, very good.......you had me going there for a minute 😀

ernie

with the utilities, government regulation stops true competition, and with other utility sectors we have competition [b]for[/b] the marketplace, not competition [b]in[/b] the marketplace.

the issue is that the private sector does bring choice - the restriction preventing it from bringing this freedom is government intervention.

Bank of Dave programme the other evening wasd the perfect example - the thing preventing him from setting up his own bank was not public resistance or market domination by the big players, it was the banking regulations, hell, it was even illegal for him to use the word 'bank'

ernie

with the utilities, government regulation stops true competition

Yep, I noticed that.

Well that's £1.50 an hour more than we get as support staff working in a challengeing behavour house .

Not read any of the above, but my 2 pennys worth.

Why if security is such an issue (which it clearly is if we need missles dotted around the capital) was the government paying a private company to employ spotty 18 year olds who couldnt get a job at McDonalds to run the security of the Olympics.

Some thing doesnt stack up some where.